Spectre vs Living Tribunal

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RadZoa
Both are their absolute peaks.

ghostman
megaversal>multiversal

Inedian
Originally posted by ghostman
megaversal>multiversal

Living Tribunal was omniversal.

Living Tribunal wins.

There are only few who could contest with such LT or win against him.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Inedian
Living Tribunal was omniversal.

Living Tribunal wins.

There are only few who could contest with such LT or win against him.
Show me where LT is omniversal? As of now destroying a reality kills its LT.

Inedian
Originally posted by abhilegend
Show me where LT is omniversal? As of now destroying a reality kills its LT.

Omniverse within Marvel Comics. Existed in whole Marvel Multiverse simultaneously. That's probably called megaverse here.
But I think it was more times said Marvel Universe or Marvel Multiverse = Omniverse.

Someone say omniverse is every universe/multiverse/megaverse combined from every comics (DC, MU, Image etc...).

For me omniverse in MU is all realities within Marvel Universe and LT existed in all of those simultaneously. He was even far above powers of those two brothers who were guardians of Megaverse of their own.

But if Omniverse is also DC comics etc.... then LT was Megaversal, which is completely all realities in MU and there are few who could challenge that LT.

Spectre doesn't stand a chance.

Genii96
When does destroying a universe kills its tribunal anyway? I am pretty sure its the other way round...

Juntai
Megaverse and omniverse?

You get this bs based on that weird scene where Tribunal wanted to meet with Spectre over the Brothers?


Last I saw, Tribunal is the multiverse given form, just as Eternity is the universe given form.

http://imgur.com/LEvLl9a
http://imgur.com/NGXqCr7

Genii96
Eternity is the embodiment of the omniverse, his infinitesmall fractions serve as universes takn form..tribunal is not like that,as if hank pym could comprehend what th tribunal actually is

TethAdamTheRock
Tribunal is the Megaverse, Multi Eternity is Multiverse. Eternity is the Universe. There are universes outside the multiverse (within the greater megaverse) such as the beyonder realm.

The Omniverse includes DC and all other comic Megaverses.

Used to be Tribunal for Multiverse and Eternity for each Universe, While Pre recon beyonder was Omniversal and From a Multiverse outside of What we know as the general marvel multiverse. He came from somewhere entirely separate

Juntai
Not anymore.
Tribunal was Marvel multiverse given form.

Genii96
Don't know of what you said was ever true,but as of right now, eternity in his totality is the omniverse
http://s6d7.turboimg.net/sp/fc8ea8cacd1fd0dfa3ac81e12c5073ca/Ultimates_2015-_006-005.jpg

Genii96
The only thing linkong tribunal to being a multiverse is an unstable hank pym,a human,I really won't take his word of what tribunal is

TethAdamTheRock
Originally posted by Genii96
Don't know of what you said was ever true,but as of right now, eternity in his totality is the omniverse
http://s6d7.turboimg.net/sp/fc8ea8cacd1fd0dfa3ac81e12c5073ca/Ultimates_2015-_006-005.jpg Megaverse.

Omniverse Includes all comic universes which was used when tribunal met spectra

Utrigita
The whole thing is one giant mess tbh. In Ultimates Eternity is back to being the Omniverse. Imo more information is needed before we can actually conclude where the **** LT is placed at the moment. His role/place seems to be reshaping from comic to comic atm.

Genii96
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Megaverse.

Omniverse Includes all comic universes which was used when tribunal met spectra
Um,it says right there eternity is the omniverse

Zack M
Spectre at peak is pretty much equal to LT.

Stoic
Originally posted by Zack M
Spectre at peak is pretty much equal to LT.

I was going to say that. Aren't they both pretty much the same guy? When both have all of the authority that can be granted to them, they're basically equals.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Inedian
Omniverse within Marvel Comics. Existed in whole Marvel Multiverse simultaneously. That's probably called megaverse here.
But I think it was more times said Marvel Universe or Marvel Multiverse = Omniverse.

Someone say omniverse is every universe/multiverse/megaverse combined from every comics (DC, MU, Image etc...).

For me omniverse in MU is all realities within Marvel Universe and LT existed in all of those simultaneously. He was even far above powers of those two brothers who were guardians of Megaverse of their own.


That's false. There is a different LT in every universe.

Non canon Adventures of X men comic you mean? Different LT.



Which was never the thing?

You speak well of Master's lies.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Genii96
When does destroying a universe kills its tribunal anyway? I am pretty sure its the other way round...
Alternate Warlock's reality was destroyed which killed its LT as well.

Astner

Inedian
Originally posted by Juntai
Megaverse and omniverse?

You get this bs based on that weird scene where Tribunal wanted to meet with Spectre over the Brothers?


Last I saw, Tribunal is the multiverse given form, just as Eternity is the universe given form.

http://imgur.com/LEvLl9a
http://imgur.com/NGXqCr7

Megaverse is a a collection of Multiverses and Living Tribunal existed in all Multiverses simultaneously (also Beyond realm where Eternity didn't have reach).

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/2614984-2094150-lt2cm.jpg

And we are talking here about LT at his absolute peak.

Now LT is not what he once was.

Inedian
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's false. There is a different LT in every universe.

That's false for this thread. You are using current LT.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Non canon Adventures of X men comic you mean? Different LT.

Everything was canon for LT back in the days, also Adventures of X-Men comic. It was the same LT. You are mistaking it with current LT.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Which was never the thing?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/2614984-2094150-lt2cm.jpg

abhilegend
Originally posted by Inedian
That's false for this thread. You are using current LT.

Current LT is the same as any LT. Do you know how retcons work?





facepalm



Retconned away. Anyway existing in all universes or multiverses simultaneously doesn't mean much in regards of power.

Inedian
Originally posted by abhilegend
Current LT is the same as any LT. Do you know how retcons work


facepalm

Oh my God, you can't be that stupid.

False for this thread. What is hard to understand here? Do you understand how forums work?



And again stupid to the core. Read again what it says and about his power in this scan.

You really are an idiot.

Genii96
Even if tribunal's background has been retconned(although its still unclear),his powers haven't been...

abhilegend
Originally posted by Inedian
Oh my God, you can't be that stupid.

False for this thread. What is hard to understand here? Do you understand how forums work?


What are you talking about kid?

Sorry, I don't speak gibberish.

Are you dense or what?

Sin I AM
Is Spectre tied to any one universe or time?...iirc he's quite capable of moving through Hypertime and traveling back through Crisis on Infinite Earths to do what he wants to but if thats true y did he struggle with all the magic users when he tried to wipe out magic. LT wouldvd just obliterated that universe.

Genii96
Tribunal dismissed the classic IG like a joke,all this talk of spectre being his peer is....just talk

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Genii96
Tribunal dismissed the classic IG like a joke,all this talk of spectre being his peer is....just talk

No necessarily. He the creator's second. And as such has access to tremendous power. But those powers fluctuate depending on gods will.

Genii96
Originally posted by Sin I AM
No necessarily. He the creator's second. And as such has access to tremendous power. But those powers fluctuate depending on gods will.
I see,Ok,in that case,how many times has he had access to powers rivalling the tribunal?

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Genii96
I see,Ok,in that case,how many times has he had access to powers rivalling the tribunal?

Off top of my head. He prevented two universes from colliding.

Genii96
That's...quite below what a tribunal is capable of,but how did he do it?,

Astner
Originally posted by Genii96
Tribunal dismissed the classic IG like a joke,
Adam Warlock allowed the Living Tribunal to inactivate the gems to spare the destruction of the universe. It certainly wasn't a joke to the Living Tribunal.

http://i.imgur.com/H8eeiXjm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/QlECsf5m.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/GPW5C4km.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/xlbanOjm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/RemrWoDm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/GRJEkTTm.jpg

"Id"
People! Shut the phuck up!

Marvel is in a disarray as to how to interpret its cosmos and its abstracts.

That does not mean that the role of each character has changed. LT is the right hand of the One Above All, nor Spectres being Wrath of God.

Since the topic asks as when they both operated at their peak. They are more or less equal, as they are the last line of defense when the cosmos is in peril.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Genii96
That's...quite below what a tribunal is capable of,but how did he do it?,
Not when it was also being done by the combined power of IG, UN, CCU, Spear of Destiny and several other powerful artifacts.

In effect he overpowered all those items.

Inedian
Feat wise, Spectre doesn't stand a chance.

Astner
Originally posted by Inedian
Feat wise, Spectre doesn't stand a chance.Originally posted by Astner
http://i.imgur.com/qtCPApAh.jpg

Juntai
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Is Spectre tied to any one universe or time?...iirc he's quite capable of moving through Hypertime and traveling back through Crisis on Infinite Earths to do what he wants to but if thats true y did he struggle with all the magic users when he tried to wipe out magic. LT wouldvd just obliterated that universe. The story itself answered that. As Nabu wondered why didn't just destroy all of them outright. Spectre said it doesn't matter, because time doesn't mean anything to him, and their struggle is ultimately futile, which proved true.

Inedian
Originally posted by Astner


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/7/74606/1408330-bro25we9.jpg

Inedian
IG was joke to LT.

Inedian
Originally posted by Astner
Adam Warlock allowed the Living Tribunal to inactivate the gems to spare the destruction of the universe. It certainly wasn't a joke to the Living Tribunal.

http://i.imgur.com/H8eeiXjm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/QlECsf5m.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/GPW5C4km.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/xlbanOjm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/RemrWoDm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/GRJEkTTm.jpg

It seems it was.

''I represent forces that dwarf even your might''.

He did it with snap of his fingers.

http://s201.photobucket.com/user/quanchi112/media/WarlockInfinityWatch01-08.jpg.htmlhttp://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WarlockInfinityWatch01-08.jpg

Sin I AM
It seems as if AW doubted LTs words

Astner
Originally posted by Inedian
It seems it was.

He did it with snap of his fingers.

http://i.imgur.com/1SHBW4Ym.jpg
Adam Warlock killed the host by raising his fist and the Living Tribunal brought them back with the snap of a finger. It's not like Adam couldn't kill them again if he wanted to.

http://i.imgur.com/lqKXjaPm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/TOk7cwim.jpg

Originally posted by Inedian
''I represent forces that dwarf even your might''.
He represented Above-All-Others.

http://i.imgur.com/NL3dTlCm.jpg

"Mighty and jealous Eternity had him called before the Living Tribunal, the representative of the one who is above all."

Originally posted by Sin I AM
It seems as if AW doubted LTs words
There is nothing in the series that suggests that the Infinity Gems are beneath the Living Tribunal, let alone a "joke" to him. In fact it was left ambiguous for quite some time.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Astner
Adam Warlock killed the host by raising his fist and the Living Tribunal brought them back with the snap of a finger. It's not like Adam couldn't kill them again if he wanted to.

http://i.imgur.com/lqKXjaPm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/TOk7cwim.jpg


He represented Above-All-Others.

http://i.imgur.com/NL3dTlCm.jpg

"Mighty and jealous Eternity had him called before the Living Tribunal, the representative of the one who is above all."


There is nothing in the series that suggests that the Infinity Gems are beneath the Living Tribunal, let alone a "joke" to him. In fact it was left ambiguous for quite some time.

You think they are equals?

Astner

Inedian
Originally posted by Astner
So when Inedian posts part of the scene from Infinity Watch and then implies that the Living Tribunal was portrayed as being well beyond the power of the Infinity Gems he is wrong.

No I am not, because it was clear LT being beyond IG, easily beyond. And Adam Warlock was just some child with immense power, immature mind to the core extremely unworthy of such power. Of course a child like that likes to contradict.

Of course it would waste a reality, already a wave of such powers between the two would do that.

When others were destroyed, LT wasn't even phased and when IG destroyed Eternity and others... he already wasted a reality, since Eternity is that reality and whom LT brought back easily and AW was in awe when he did that.

The whole scene wasn't even about LT stopping AW (there wasn't doubt or worry about that, but why fight, when there is no need and LT knew that), it was more about if AW was worthy of such power... and of course he was from it.

Astner
Originally posted by Inedian
No I am not, because it was clear LT being beyond IG, easily beyond.
Based on what?

Originally posted by Inedian
When others were destroyed, LT wasn't even phased and when IG destroyed Eternity and others... he already wasted a reality, since Eternity is that reality
There is a distinction. Eternity is the manifestation of the universe, not the universe itself.

Originally posted by Inedian
and whom LT brought back easily and AW was in awe when he did that.
It wasn't awe, it was surprise. Adam still doubted the legitimacy of Living Tribunal's claim when he stated that he represented a force beyond him.

Originally posted by Inedian
The whole scene wasn't even about LT stopping AW (there wasn't doubt or worry about that, but why fight, when there is no need and LT knew that), it was more about if AW was worthy of such power... and of course he was from it.
In this particular scene the Living Tribunal had already reached a verdict. Adam were to surrender the power of the gems or there would be a battle. It was not because Adam thought he'd lose, but because he didn't want to be that kind of God.

TheHulkster
It's quite apparent that LT is multiversal:

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/living_tribunal.jpg

http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/2/28248/545050-lt3.jpg

Here is the multiversal LT:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HaXGPox-iIM/VO-hdK7EdhI/AAAAAAAAO_w/OxCHICzBBV8/w800-h800/IMG_0452.JPG

What we see in each universe is a sliver:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c8/ee/b1/c8eeb16aea7c5f3227006f2505ff8f1c.jpg

Evidence supports that Spectre is shown as a peer to a sliver residing in 616:

http://pm1.narvii.com/6088/18f174b387b5d969078bffbed8719c9135f9eb00_hq.jpg

abhilegend
That's not Spectre.

And Starlin retconned that there is a separate LT in every reality.

Spectre stomps the shit out of universal LT.

thumb up

TheHulkster
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's not Spectre.

And Starlin retconned that there is a separate LT in every reality.

Spectre stomps the shit out of universal LT.

thumb up

Nope. Starlin didn't retcon anything. Spectre is a peer to a sliver. And no one said that that was Spectre.

Cogito
Originally posted by TheHulkster
And no one said that that was Spectre.

I'm not of the opinion that the Spectre is a peer to LT (except perhaps in COIE), but come on. If you're talking about the "hooded, spectral ally", then of course it's the Spectre. To say otherwise could not be more senselessly obtuse. In a Marvel-only book they can't use his name or image for copyright reasons, so they paint a painfully obvious picture.

You seem to do this a lot - claiming vagueness when meaning is obvious. It's annoying, and you should stop it. no expression

TheHulkster
Originally posted by Cogito
I'm not of the opinion that the Spectre is a peer to LT (except perhaps in COIE), but come on. If you're talking about the "hooded, spectral ally", then of course it's the Spectre. To say otherwise could not be more senselessly obtuse. In a Marvel-only book they can't use his name or image for copyright reasons, so they paint a painfully obvious picture.

You seem to do this a lot - claiming vagueness when meaning is obvious. It's annoying, and you should stop it. no expression

What are you talking about? I was speaking of the other being pictured in the panel. You need to get a grip and address the person who made the original assertion if you believe that he is referring to the hooded ally and take your target off of me.

iceman24567
They are more or less equals

Galan007
I've always viewed Spectre as, essentially, DC's equivalent of a... More active LT.

Meaning: Spectre gets involved in events that effect creation on a grand scale, as well as relatively minor/earth-based happenings. LT, on the other hand, only involves himself in the former. /shrug

Galan007
*Guess I should have worded it differently.

LT would actually be Marvel's version of a less active Spectre, given that Spectre predates LT by almost 30 years.

quanchi112
Lt wins.

abhilegend
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Nope. Starlin didn't retcon anything. Spectre is a peer to a sliver. And no one said that that was Spectre.
Yes, he did.

There is no such thing as Sliver stated in Starlin's work.

Zack M
Originally posted by iceman24567
They are more or less equals

This.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, he did.

There is no such thing as Sliver stated in Starlin's work.

So if something is not stated in a Starlin book, that means that iti is retconned? Stop trolling dude.

"Id"
LT wins.

I like the Spectre as a character, much more intresting.

Mr Master
Originally posted by abhilegend

And Starlin retconned that there is a separate LT in every reality.

Well of course you'll ride that, it hugs your nuts well.

Yes, Starlin did a what? 2? 3 book mini? Standalone, which NO other Marvel title recognized then, or has since.

Hickman, on the other hand, his arc spanned dozens of issues, and ALL Marvel titles.

Their works were published practically simultaneously.

Yet, Hickman's the underdog in your view. dur

How can you not always end with this result: facepalm

abhilegend
Originally posted by TheHulkster
So if something is not stated in a Starlin book, that means that iti is retconned? Stop trolling dude.
Since LT last appeared in Starlin's work, yeah it is a retcon.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Mr Master
Well of course you'll ride that, it hugs your nuts well.

Yes, Starlin did a what? 2? 3 book mini? Standalone, which NO other Marvel title recognized then, or has since.

Hickman, on the other hand, his arc spanned dozens of issues, and ALL Marvel titles.

Their works were published practically simultaneously.

Yet, Hickman's the underdog in your view. dur

How can you not always end with this result: facepalm
Starlin's Infinity Finale came out after Secret Wars and acknowledged Beyonders killing LT.

More recent work is canon for retcons.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by abhilegend
Starlin's Infinity Finale came out after Secret Wars and acknowledged Beyonders killing LT.

More recent work is canon for retcons.

Continuity inconsistencies and contradictions don't automatically make for retcons.

abhilegend
That wasn't a continuity glitch.

DarkSaint85
It DOES go with the whole 'we take the most recent portrayals ' though...

RealityWarper
LT stomps.

Maybe they seems to have similar titles but LT is light years beyond Spectre in power.

quanchi112
Originally posted by RealityWarper
LT stomps.

Maybe they seems to have similar titles but LT is light years beyond Spectre in power. thumb up

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It DOES go with the whole 'we take the most recent portrayals ' though...

That would basically mean that everything Superman does in DOTNG is undone in Final Crisis.

And do we actually take the most recent portrayals? I see people pulling up scans from 30 year old comics to prove points all of the time.

But retcons are generally insertions into continuity that cause reinterpretations of events. Starlin's book doesn't do this. It's just his POV of LT conflicting with Hickman's and practically everyone else's.

DarkSaint85
30, 40 year old scans are all fine, as long as they don't contradict more recent portrayals (unless you're carver, lol).

So for example, if Batman more recently is shown to hate guns, I can't use his original guise where he shoots everything on sight.

Or, if Beast looks like a cat, I can't use his human form feats.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
30, 40 year old scans are all fine, as long as they don't contradict more recent portrayals (unless you're carver, lol).

So for example, if Batman more recently is shown to hate guns, I can't use his original guise where he shoots everything on sight.

Or, if Beast looks like a cat, I can't use his human form feats.

So the space ants defeating Asgard should never be mentioned?

"Id"
Originally posted by RealityWarper
LT stomps.

Maybe they seems to have similar titles but LT is light years beyond Spectre in power.

You could also play the part where, LT does not have a Soul for Spectre to judge. So he can just as easily whisk him away like how Nekron did.

zopzop
Originally posted by "Id"
You could also play the part where, LT does not have a Soul for Spectre to judge. So he can just as easily whisk him away like how Nekron did.
That was Spectre acting like an idiot. That fool had the power to stop GEB and PEAK COIE AM if he wanted to.

If that Spectre shows up to fight, the LT is dead.

Galan007
Fighting and judging are two different things. A character doesn't need to have a soul just for Spectre to fight them.

"Id"
So why couldn't he fight Nekron?

zopzop
Originally posted by "Id"
So why couldn't he fight Nekron?
The same reason why he didn't beat Peak COIE AM and GEB even though he could. He's a clown. He has the power so that's not the issue.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by TheHulkster
So the space ants defeating Asgard should never be mentioned?

Have the space ants been shown to be weaker? Or have the writers written that it was all a fevered space dream after Odin ate too many burritos?

Galan007
Originally posted by "Id"
So why couldn't he fight Nekron? He didn't try to fight him -- he only tried to judge him. Again, fighting and judging are two different things.... And that was also Crispus, who is far and away the shittiest version of the character(especially under Johns.)

Mr Master
Originally posted by zopzop

If that Spectre shows up to fight, the LT is dead.
I'm guessing that's if the LT who showed up against Warlock is incognito? smile

"Id"
Originally posted by zopzop
The same reason why he didn't beat Peak COIE AM and GEB even though he could. He's a clown. He has the power so that's not the issue.
Originally posted by Galan007
He didn't try to fight him -- he only tried to judge him. Again, fighting and judging are two different things.... And that was also Crispus, who is far and away the shittiest version of the character(especially under Johns.)
Im playing devils advocate. But no I disagree. His ability to fight someone is tied in by who he judges.

Regardless of his power level atm, he actually fought GEB & AM.

Anyhow the real answer is plot device. In "Darkest Night" It was necessary to keep the plot moving forward, since the goal of story was for the Lanterns to overcome adversity not the Spectre.

After all Win or Lose Spectre has raised his fist against against those who are universal constants lacking a soul.

The problem here is when do we stop relaying on PIS. Ahbi and some members want to relay on Starlins portrayal of the LT that is one for every universe, which is fit to bring closure to his story...his plot. In reality LT has been established to be Multiversal consistently for the past what 20 30 years?

One interpretation of one writer is not going to undo 30 years of work, in fact we would have to wait to see if Starlins plot actually sticks. And if this is Multiversal Spectre, or Spectre at his best. Then the same would apply to the LT, or else the topic would be deem stomp, due to unfair match making.

I could also look at it in this way.

Multiversal LT beats Multiversal Spectre.
Universal LT beats Universal Spectre.

As either one simply walks with more power and authority than the other.

/rant end

cdtm
Spectre: I want to act, but I can't because *reasons*.

LT: I won't act, unless it would be a dick move if I did.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Have the space ants been shown to be weaker? Or have the writers written that it was all a fevered space dream after Odin ate too many burritos?

Odin has been shown to be far more powerful. Odin, along with Asgard, charge and fight like bricks with swords. Odin is chained to a pole with nothing preventing him from using his odinpower. It's a 60s comic that contradicts everything shown today, yet is repeatedly referenced by DC fans, most notably Abhilegend.

So the notion of counting only the latest is a notion overwhelmingly not followed. People follow what is most prominent and most relevant. Starlin does not retcon LT. He simply functions under his own perception of continuity that is outside of mainstream and generally is unaware of what is currently going on.

abhilegend
Originally posted by "Id"
Im playing devils advocate. But no I disagree. His ability to fight someone is tied in by who he judges.

Regardless of his power level atm, he actually fought GEB & AM.

Anyhow the real answer is plot device. In "Darkest Night" It was necessary to keep the plot moving forward, since the goal of story was for the Lanterns to overcome adversity not the Spectre.

After all Win or Lose Spectre has raised his fist against against those who are universal constants lacking a soul.

The problem here is when do we stop relaying on PIS. Ahbi and some members want to relay on Starlins portrayal of the LT that is one for every universe, which is fit to bring closure to his story...his plot. In reality LT has been established to be Multiversal consistently for the past what 20 30 years?

One interpretation of one writer is not going to undo 30 years of work, in fact we would have to wait to see if Starlins plot actually sticks. And if this is Multiversal Spectre, or Spectre at his best. Then the same would apply to the LT, or else the topic would be deem stomp, due to unfair match making.

I could also look at it in this way.

Multiversal LT beats Multiversal Spectre.
Universal LT beats Universal Spectre.

As either one simply walks with more power and authority than the other.

/rant end
The same reason LT couldn't beat Korvac. Or got repelled by Reed in Last Planet Standing. If we are going by low showings that is.

LT has only hype.

abhilegend
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Odin has been shown to be far more powerful. Odin, along with Asgard, charge and fight like bricks with swords. Odin is chained to a pole with nothing preventing him from using his odinpower. It's a 60s comic that contradicts everything shown today, yet is repeatedly referenced by DC fans, most notably Abhilegend.

So the notion of counting only the latest is a notion overwhelmingly not followed. People follow what is most prominent and most relevant. Starlin does not retcon LT. He simply functions under his own perception of continuity that is outside of mainstream and generally is unaware of what is currently going on.
Considering it's Starlin who has written most of LT's portrayals and he was the one writer who pushed him as the top authority on abstracts, I find that too much funny.

LT is what it is due to writing from Starlin. He was a joke before that.

operator616
No, Kaminski put him as the top dog before Starlin did. Actually i think it was Gruenwald in that what if issue even, iirc.

Also, zop, Spectre's power is entirely dependent on its host.

abhilegend
In Fantastic Four annual 23? That was merely lip service.

Nearly all of LT's feats come from Starlin.

Mr Master
Originally posted by abhilegend

The same reason LT couldn't beat Korvac.
facepalm
Originally posted by abhilegend

Or got repelled by Reed in Last Planet Standing.
"All Ages" books work for you when it's convenient.

Damn, so predictable.

abhilegend
Until the retcon from Starlin, there was only one LT in multiverse.

But if you want, change all that to LT getting his ass handed to him by Nebulos who got killed by an Avalanche.

laughing out loud

operator616
Originally posted by abhilegend
In Fantastic Four annual 23? That was merely lip service.

Nearly all of LT's feats come from Starlin.

We weren't talking about his feats, rather his status. You said that Starlin put LT as the top dog of abstracts. He didn't.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by abhilegend
In Fantastic Four annual 23? That was merely lip service.

Nearly all of LT's feats come from Starlin.

Gallagher, Gruenwald and Englehart would dispute that.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by abhilegend
Until the retcon from Starlin, there was only one LT in multiverse.

But if you want, change all that to LT getting his ass handed to him by Nebulos who got killed by an Avalanche.

laughing out loud

Right!

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103530/2215057-untitled.png

laughing

abhilegend
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Gallagher, Gruenwald and Englehart would dispute that.
What feats does LT has under those writers? Starbrand was a rival to LT under Gruenwald.

laughing out loud

abhilegend
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Right!

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103530/2215057-untitled.png

laughing

Seriously?

TheHulkster
Originally posted by abhilegend
What feats does LT has under those writers? Starbrand was a rival to LT under Gruenwald.

laughing out loud

That's untrue.

abhilegend
Originally posted by TheHulkster
That's untrue. Originally posted by abhilegend
Seriously?

TheHulkster
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not at all.

The Starbrand has no feats for anyone to make that assertion and on top of that whilst it was presented that LT was unsure of how his power compared to that of the IG and he avoided a confrontation with its unleashed power:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35715261768.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35715261873.jpg

LT didnt hesitate to mark out the Starbrand not only as being potentially on par with the abstracts but most definitely below him:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/36011063793.jpg

After losing a contest against LT, rather than submit her power to him Erishkigal killed herself, realising her power couldnt stand up to LT's.

abhilegend
A post from Galactic Storm?

laughing out loud

Have you even read the story?

TheHulkster
Originally posted by abhilegend
A post from Galactic Storm?

laughing out loud

Have you even read the story?

Yep.

Zack M
Split.

quanchi112
Originally posted by abhilegend
A post from Galactic Storm?

laughing out loud

Have you even read the story? Sounds like a concession.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by quanchi112
Sounds like a concession.

So much Marvel envy, isn't it ? big grin

quanchi112
Originally posted by RealityWarper
So much Marvel envy, isn't it ? big grin thumb up

Mr Master
Originally posted by abhilegend

LT getting his ass handed to him by Nebulos
Scans ... of LT losing, or getting his "ass handed to him" by Nebulos?

Oh wait, it's you and the constant low-ballin gibbering fallacies.

... never mind.
Originally posted by abhilegend

Starbrand was a rival to LT
durlaugh ... I see this shit will never stop.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Mr Master
Scans ... of LT losing, or getting his "ass handed to him" by Nebulos?

Oh wait, it's you and the constant low-ballin gibbering fallacies.

... never mind.

durlaugh ... I see this shit will never stop. thumb up

cdtm
Protege was a pretty low end, imo.

Also made no sense, cosmologically speaking, for a Celestial rank above LT.

cdtm
Anyways, they're two different things.

You're comparing a character and a plot device. And generally, characters are more likely to rack up losses.. Unless you're Starlin's Thanos.

At the theoretical upper end, they "should" be equal, of we assume TOOA and Presence are where they derive their power (Well, that's true of EVERYONE, but they function as direct instruments of their supreme beings.)

quanchi112
Originally posted by cdtm
Protege was a pretty low end, imo.

Also made no sense, cosmologically speaking, for a Celestial rank above LT. Your perceptions aren't reality the comics are. So saying something doesn't make sense is an incredibly flawed statement since you don't determine what's canon the writers do.

abhilegend
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Yep.
Doesn't seems like it.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Mr Master
Scans ... of LT losing, or getting his "ass handed to him" by Nebulos?

Oh wait, it's you and the constant low-ballin gibbering fallacies.

... never mind.


http://i.imgur.com/ajoXhDz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lEL8q0Y.jpg

Dr Strange feared they might destroy each other and Tribunal was forced to destroy mountains as it couldn't do anything to Nebulos directly.

Hey buffoon, LT flat out said that he, Lord Chaos and Master Order were abstracts and said that Starbrand was rival to the abstracts like themselves.

That's why the tournament was held in the first place.

Galan007
Is LT wearing cosmic undies there? blink

abhilegend
laughing out loud

SquallX
Both LT and Spectre serves the same purpose. They both have low and high end feats.

In the end, all it comes down too is who you like the best.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by abhilegend
http://i.imgur.com/ajoXhDz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lEL8q0Y.jpg

Dr Strange feared they might destroy each other and Tribunal was forced to destroy mountains as it couldn't do anything to Nebulos directly.

Hey buffoon, LT flat out said that he, Lord Chaos and Master Order were abstracts and said that Starbrand was rival to the abstracts like themselves.

That's why the tournament was held in the first place.

The tournament is held to prevent the collateral damage to the cosmos that a confrontation between the two would cause. As you can see from the scan, LT calls her a POTENTIAL rival, which means that she is below that status at the present. Also, saying that she is a POTENTIAL peer to the abstracts is a general statement that doesn't necessarily apply to him specifically. There is a hierarchy among abstracts. As a matter of fact, when he references himself individually, he expresses that she would not be able to withstand his unleashed power.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/QgskLGJvQ-bzAOZhOX5LE8qj9GJyn3BwJDl1i-MnNtbc3r0Z0ZqeSxA5Q3q8Z6Dnw1c5T1-KkkRT=s0

quanchi112
thumb up

cdtm
Originally posted by quanchi112
Your perceptions aren't reality the comics are. So saying something doesn't make sense is an incredibly flawed statement since you don't determine what's canon the writers do.

And the writer's haven't written a celestial > Living Tribunal since? Which is my point?

abhilegend
Originally posted by TheHulkster
The tournament is held to prevent the collateral damage to the cosmos that a confrontation between the two would cause. As you can see from the scan, LT calls her a POTENTIAL rival, which means that she is below that status at the present. Also, saying that she is a POTENTIAL peer to the abstracts is a general statement that doesn't necessarily apply to him specifically. There is a hierarchy among abstracts. As a matter of fact, when he references himself individually, he expresses that she would not be able to withstand his unleashed power.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/QgskLGJvQ-bzAOZhOX5LE8qj9GJyn3BwJDl1i-MnNtbc3r0Z0ZqeSxA5Q3q8Z6Dnw1c5T1-KkkRT=s0
A lot of excuses. If LT was above Starbrand, he would've actually showed that other than empty threats.

And there is Scathan , a mere Celestial who **** stomped Protege with the power of Eternity and LT like a feeb.

laughing out loud

Astner
Originally posted by TheHulkster
As you can see from the scan, LT calls her a POTENTIAL rival, which means that she is below that status at the present.
No it doesn't. It means that she possibly rivaled him. The Living Tribunal didn't know. There's ambiguity there.

If you were to assume the premise that the Living Tribunal was more powerful, then he still wasn't powerful enough to stop Ereshkigal without a power struggle that would've damaged the multiverse.

abhilegend
All this hype about LT and I'm struggling to recall one impressive win for him in combat.

Nearly everyone ends up kicking his ass in a fight or he runs away.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by Astner
No it doesn't. It means that she possibly rivaled him. The Living Tribunal didn't know. There's ambiguity there.

If you were to assume the premise that the Living Tribunal was more powerful, then he still wasn't powerful enough to stop Ereshkigal without a power struggle that would've damaged the multiverse.

How exactly does the word "potential" mean "possible" as opposed to meaning "potential" (I wonder if a certain person will be annoyed by what I just said)?

Anyhow, Ereshkigal is portrayed as a multiversal power seeking to rule the multiverse and LT doesn't lose to her. That's far different from Spectre getting manhandled by Vandal Savage/Cain or having to repeatedly battle and be rendered unconscious in Soul War (by The Trans right)?

Or getting bound in chains by a wizard or struggling against an amped up Captain Marvel, crying in pain from a bat kick, struggling/losing against Phantom Stranger, struggling against Shazam. Being beaten or struggling against Eclipso.

Spectre operates at a significantly lower level than LT and that is why his fans must toss out the "as powerful as God wants him to be" excuse.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by abhilegend
All this hype about LT and I'm struggling to recall one impressive win for him in combat.

Nearly everyone ends up kicking his ass in a fight or he runs away.

Provide the scans of this happening.

quanchi112
Originally posted by TheHulkster
How exactly does the word "potential" mean "possible" as opposed to meaning "potential" (I wonder if a certain person will be annoyed by what I just said)?

Anyhow, Ereshkigal is portrayed as a multiversal power seeking to rule the multiverse and LT doesn't lose to her. That's far different from Spectre getting manhandled by Vandal Savage/Cain or having to repeatedly battle and be rendered unconscious in Soul War (by The Trans right)?

Or getting bound in chains by a wizard or struggling against an amped up Captain Marvel, crying in pain from a bat kick, struggling/losing against Phantom Stranger, struggling against Shazam. Being beaten or struggling against Eclipso.

Spectre operates at a significantly lower level than LT and that is why his fans must toss out the "as powerful as God wants him to be" excuse. thumb up

TheHulkster
Originally posted by quanchi112
thumb up

Do you have any idea where all of these alleged "a** kickings" LT takes are? I mean, we are all aware of the HOV and Beyonders, but where are all of the others he claims?

quanchi112
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Do you have any idea where all of these alleged "a** kickings" LT takes are? I mean, we are all aware of the HOV and Beyonders, but where are all of the others he claims? If Lt has lost before Abhi will blow it out of proportion and only focus on those limited showings while ignoring his consistent portrayals and other feats.

abhilegend
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Provide the scans of this happening.
Scans of what?

quanchi112
laughing out loud

RadZoa
Spectre should win this with minimal effort

quanchi112
laughing out loud

Zack M
Originally posted by RadZoa
Spectre should win this with minimal effort

yes

Mr Master
Originally posted by abhilegend

Dr Strange feared they might destroy each other
Scans of LT getting "his ass handed to him" by Nebulos? ****ing liar.

Or is it, the typical same ol' bull shit you produce?

Who gives a phuk what Strange is postulating "might" happen.

As always, you have no idea what the **** you're debating concerning Marvel cosmics.
Originally posted by abhilegend

and Tribunal was forced to destroy mountains as it couldn't do anything to Nebulos directly.
And of course your clueless ass has no idea what the stipulation was that hindered the LT.

That aside:

1967 ... laughing out loud ... Would love to see these incredible portrayals of DC cosmics in the 60's.
Originally posted by abhilegend

Hey buffoon, LT flat out said that he,

Lord Chaos and Master Order were abstracts
and said that Starbrand was rival to the abstracts like themselves.
durlaugh ... LT said Erishkegal would get STOMPED by him.

I could care less if Erish was a "potential" = to the abstracts beneath the LT.

Also, it wasn't the Starbrand alone that would catapult Erish to this potentiality,
but her merger with the Guardians of the NexuseS,
AND, her staying located WITHIN the Nexus itself.

Yes, I didn't expect you to know that.
Originally posted by abhilegend

That's why the tournament was held in the first place.
Don't be so desperate to find the low-ball that it clogs your simple judgement.

The "tournament" was held cause it's a Quasar book, and Quasar has to be the hero.

Jesus, are you really this simple minded? No. That's just the troll in you.

quanchi112
laughing out loud

Mr Master
Originally posted by abhilegend

And there is Scathan ,

a mere Celestial who **** stomped Protege with the power of Eternity and LT like a feeb.
Scans of Scathan being stated to be a "mere" Celestial?

Scans of Scathan's history being explained on panel. (I'll accept a bio too)

Oh wait, it's you.

I see. The shit driveling fallacies continue.

quanchi112
Protege isn't the Lt either. According to abhi's logic any humiliating showing of any Knian can be applied to Superman since they have the same power set. Oh the silly logic from abhi can be used against him.

cdtm
Originally posted by Mr Master
Scans of Scathan being stated to be a "mere" Celestial?

Scans of Scathan's history being explained on panel. (I'll accept a bio too)

Oh wait, it's you.

I see. The shit driveling fallacies continue.

Lol.

Seriously though, what's your take on Scathan? No problem with a Celestlal being portrayed as on LT's tier?

Not trying to downplay LT here, I really thought it was an odd plot point, given how Celestials are usually portrayed. I mean, why didn't LT simply defeat Protege himself?

Mr Master
Originally posted by Astner

No it doesn't. It means that she possibly rivaled him.
Nah.

LT clearly stated Erish was beneath him.
LT said she was potential peer to the abstracts, obviously meaning those beneath him.

Also, Erish/Starbrand was nothing impressive.

Now, Erish, merged with the Nexus Guardians while she's withIN the Nexus itself is a different story.

But then again, even Surtur can potentially burn the Omniverse via a Nexus. laughing
Originally posted by Astner

Living Tribunal was more powerful,
he still wasn't powerful enough to stop Ereshkigal
without a power struggle that would've damaged the multiverse.
The multiverse is vulnerable from withIN the Nexus.

The Nexus is like a freeway-gateway to all universeS simultaneously.

Any kind of unchecked power being unleashed withIN the Nexus is dangerous.

Mr Master
Originally posted by cdtm

Seriously though, what's your take on Scathan?
Scathan was definitely NO ordinary, or "mere" Celestial.

The story made that quite clear. Scathan was verbally pampered as being above the LT.

Then, Scathan did what the LT could not, defeat Protege.

In fact, Protege's power = The LT, (trans-multiversal)
Eternity, (multiversal)
Hawkgod (nigh-multiversal)
Beyonder (multi-universal)
Mephisto, Malevolence, and GOTG

Scathan stomped all that combined power in one energy exploding move.
Then Scathan neutralized Protege in the infamous Celestial muzzle,
Then Scathan took off the muzzle, and held Protege physically while the LT passed judgement.

Imo, Scathan was an agent of TOAA. It's the only explanation (unofficial though) that makes sense.
Originally posted by cdtm

I mean, why didn't LT simply defeat Protege himself?
Protege was bred to be God. He came close to for-filling his sacrilegious birthright.

I have to go to sleep so I have not the time to explain now.

Tomorrow, I will return though.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Mr Master
Scans of Scathan being stated to be a "mere" Celestial?

Scans of Scathan's history being explained on panel. (I'll accept a bio too)

Oh wait, it's you.

I see. The shit driveling fallacies continue.
He never uses them. Said so himself. Very trustworthy fellow that Abhi.

shifty

cdtm
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He never uses them. Said so himself. Very trustworthy fellow that Abhi.

shifty

He's Indian, isn't he?

I don't want to paint Indians with a broad brush, but the friends I made in college bragged like it was a point of pride that they'd rip you off at the first chance. smile

abhilegend
Originally posted by Mr Master
Scans of Scathan being stated to be a "mere" Celestial?

Scans of Scathan's history being explained on panel. (I'll accept a bio too)

Oh wait, it's you.

I see. The shit driveling fallacies continue.
Oh yeah, there is nothing to show Scathan as a celestial.

http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29742223_Guardians_Of_The_Galaxy_49-13.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29742224_Guardians_Of_The_Galaxy_50-12.jpg

Just two of nearly a dozen references of him being just a celestial.

Why would I or anyone need to post a bio for anything? He is a celestial and celestials' powers are well documented.

Its you who need to prove he was somehow special when nothing indicated so.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Mr Master
Scathan was definitely NO ordinary, or "mere" Celestial.

The story made that quite clear. Scathan was verbally pampered as being above the LT.

Then, Scathan did what the LT could not, defeat Protege.

In fact, Protege's power = The LT, (trans-multiversal)
Eternity, (multiversal)
Hawkgod (nigh-multiversal)
Beyonder (multi-universal)
Mephisto, Malevolence, and GOTG

Scathan stomped all that combined power in one energy exploding move.
Then Scathan neutralized Protege in the infamous Celestial muzzle,
Then Scathan took off the muzzle, and held Protege physically while the LT passed judgement.

Imo, Scathan was an agent of TOAA. It's the only explanation (unofficial though) that makes sense.

That's simply bullshit. Where is LT supposed to be trans-multiversal in that scene?

You just made that shit up because it makes LT look bad. Like always.



We will eagerly await for your made up theories how Scathan was agent of TOAA or shit like that.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Mr Master
Scans of LT getting "his ass handed to him" by Nebulos? ****ing liar.

Already posted. Strange feared they both might kill themselves in the fight.



Who gives a **** about what you think and make shit up about?



laughing out loud

Rich, simply rich coming from you.



Yes, where Spectre was stopping entire universes colliding and shit like that.



Who gives a **** about what LT said? He also said he would led the other abstracts to fight Starbrand too.



He said he was an abstract too.



And?



****ing bullshit. Quasar actually lost that fight. Don't try to make shit up against me.



Concession accepted troll.

abhilegend
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He never uses them. Said so himself. Very trustworthy fellow that Abhi.

shifty Originally posted by cdtm
He's Indian, isn't he?

I don't want to paint Indians with a broad brush, but the friends I made in college bragged like it was a point of pride that they'd rip you off at the first chance. smile
Ah, a bunch of sycophants and racism.

thumb up

quanchi112
Originally posted by cdtm
He's Indian, isn't he?

I don't want to paint Indians with a broad brush, but the friends I made in college bragged like it was a point of pride that they'd rip you off at the first chance. smile laughing out loud

Poor abhi.

operator616
Originally posted by TheHulkster
That's far different from Spectre getting manhandled by Vandal Savage/Cain or having to repeatedly battle and be rendered unconscious in Soul War (by The Trans right)?

Or getting bound in chains by a wizard or struggling against an amped up Captain Marvel, crying in pain from a bat kick, struggling/losing against Phantom Stranger, struggling against Shazam. Being beaten or struggling against Eclipso.

Spectre operates at a significantly lower level than LT and that is why his fans must toss out the "as powerful as God wants him to be" excuse.

Savage used the spear of destiny against the Spectre which has been used as a plot device since the early 80s against the Spectre.

Also, the trans are a cosmic collective consciousness who are the embodiment of an entire universe (imaginal realm).

The wizard instance is a legitimate low showing even though it had more do with the wizard praying on Hal's dark thoughts rather than overpowering him directly.

It was outright stated that Spectre wanted Bruce to feel better about himself.

I don't recall pre-Flashpoint Spectre losing against the Stranger? In DoV he turned him into a mouse, and PS was part of thousands of magical of beings who were amping captain marvel. In the first Spectre/Eclipso wrath of God arc he was portrayed as being inferior, in Blackest Night as well.

He was weakened against Shazam, and even then he drained him along with his every artifact of power like nothing.

He was only ever beaten by Eclipso when the latter was at full power iirc. all of Eclipso's other showings is him using 1 out of a thousand black diamonds which was cut off. It was depicted on panel how the essence of the universe was unable to beat full-power Eclipso, only imprison him.

I agree that Spectre is below LT, but none of these are low showings (apart from the all stars instance, because Wizard is in fact a shitty character). Admittedly though, he has worse lows than the ones you've mentioned.

Galan007
On average, Spectre operates on a lower tier than LT -- but that's mostly due to him being portrayed more as an earthly force who judges lowly criminals and whathaveyou.

Spectre steps up to LT level, however, when the threat requires it. We've seen this quite a few times in DC's history -- during COIE, during Zero Hour, against the GEB, at the end of FC: Revelations, etc. etc.


There's no need to mention lows... That aren't really lows, though. That just shows an ignorance of the character(s).

abhilegend
It has been literally stated that the Logoz is restricting Spectre's power at all times.

And LT has showings like fleeing from Korvac, struggling against Nebulos and getting repelled alongside several other abstracts by a machine from an alternate Reed, Protege with his powers stacked with Eternity and Beyonder getting stomped by a single Celestial, getting killed by three Beyonders etc. Heck Adam Warlock who was specifically stated to be more powerful than previous LT wasn't able to create a single universe from scratch. Even Hal Spectre was doing that with ease.

LT doesn't has Spectre's low showings but he doesn't has his high showings either.

LT is all hype.

Cogito
Originally posted by abhilegend
LT doesn't has Spectre's low showings but he doesn't has his high showings either.
Agreed. In fact, the IG incident is the only time the LT has really been noteworthy.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It has been literally stated that the Logoz is restricting Spectre's power at all times.
Scan?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Cogito
Agreed. In fact, the IG incident is the only time the LT has really been noteworthy.


Yeah, and Spectre overpowered IG, CCU, UN alongwith several other artifacts when he separated DC and Marvel universes. Far better showing than LT's showing against IG in fact.

Also Thanos with a fraction of God's power owned LT like a feeb.

Spectre can fight God's literal power aka Michael Demiurgos and at least put a fight and make him say that Spectre was a worthy opponent.



On a phone so can't post it. It's from Spectre v4 4.

Cogito
Originally posted by abhilegend
Spectre can fight God's literal power aka Michael Demiurgos and at least put a fight and make him say that Spectre was a worthy opponent.

He got owned pretty hard when he tried to fight Michael...not a low feat though.

abhilegend
He lasted more than a panel.

thumb up

cdtm
Originally posted by abhilegend
He lasted more than a panel.

thumb up

thumb up He did indeed.

And other versions getting one shotted, while Corrigan had an actual fight, lends proof to the theory a host affects Spectre's power level.

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