SSR vs SSB

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NewGuy01
Has anyone's opinions on this matter changed recently?

Kento
No.

carver9
Blue stomps

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
Blue stomps

I guess you can't wait till SSJ Green appears... shifty

Kento
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I guess you can't wait till SSJ Green appears... shifty he can't wait til they go over to universe 5 and bust it with punches and survive.

StiltmanFTW
laughing out loud

Ridley_Prime
SSJ Rainbow will top all, you'll see!

NewGuy01
Except now we've seen SSB Goku use Kaioken x10 and he's still weaker than Beerus. Also, ever since SSR, none of Goku's fights have been universe-threatening at all.

and Red is a stronger color than blue.

bbrem123
I always thought this. But the show seems to point to Red being the novice SSG form.

The lean appearance of Red along with the self healing made me always feel like it was the superior God form. Not to mention the fight with Beerus.

Galan007
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Also, ever since SSR, none of Goku's fights have been universe-threatening at all. That's because while SSR Goku was fighting Beerus, he learned(on the fly) how to deliver said punches without generating those universe-threatening shockwaves.

As has always been the case with DB: the amount of collateral damage caused by a given character is not a full-proof means through which to quantify them.

SSB>SSR.

Inedian
SSB>SSR

SSR is also Goku dependant on others to become SSG, now he is not.

Placidity
Consider:

SSR had a healing factor and could heal from Beerus shoving his hand into his body.

SSB got shot by a little shit laser and was done.

SSR just seemed more resilient to me, taking serious punishment over and over again from Beerus but always coming back.

Sj_Sharp
Originally posted by Placidity
Consider:

SSB got shot by a little shit laser and was done.



False: in DBS (which did override the movies as canon) Goku was already completely powered down and in base form when he got shot by the laser.

Being said that, it is:

SSB KKx10 >>> SSB KK > SSB U6 (post 3 years in ROSAT) > SSB (FnF) > SSG.

Mismatch against SSG.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Placidity
SSR had a healing factor and could heal from Beerus shoving his hand into his body.

Smh.

Vegeta recovered from a similar attack from Kid Buu and he was only SSJ2.

carver9
Originally posted by Galan007
That's because while SSR Goku was fighting Beerus, he learned(on the fly) how to deliver said punches without generating those universe-threatening shockwaves.

As has always been the case with DB: the amount of collateral damage caused by a given character is not a full-proof means through which to quantify them.

SSB>SSR.

This. Also, nothing pointed to Goku losing SSR power AFTER his fight against Beerus. If something was actually said about him losing this power up (which was said that was still inside of Goku when he went Super Saiyan), please point me in that direction.

Kento
Originally posted by Galan007
That's because while SSR Goku was fighting Beerus, he learned(on the fly) how to deliver said punches without generating those universe-threatening shockwaves.

As has always been the case with DB: the amount of collateral damage caused by a given character is not a full-proof means through which to quantify them.

SSB>SSR. See, GOKU learned to null the universe destroying punches fighting Beerus. If SSR Goku is weak, and Beerus was lowered to such a low level why doesn't any of the other fights have the same power output though? Like that's one thing I don't get with ssb > ssr. Nobody else has shown Gokus ability to learn that fast. And fighting someone else you'd think would involve having to learn how to null it again.

NewGuy01
There's also the fact that the idea that SSR Goku was <<< 10% Beerus is a hard pill to swallow. Basically SSJ2 Vegeta level at this point.

cdtm
Originally posted by Galan007
That's because while SSR Goku was fighting Beerus, he learned(on the fly) how to deliver said punches without generating those universe-threatening shockwaves.

As has always been the case with DB: the amount of collateral damage caused by a given character is not a full-proof means through which to quantify them.

SSB>SSR.

Doesn't explain why eveyone else Goku fights isn't sending out shockwaves, like Freeza or Hit.

A more likely answer is that the writers or Toriyama didn't think that universe shockwave thing through. Pretty safe to write it off as PIS, given it's never remotely mentioned again.

Kento
Originally posted by cdtm
Doesn't explain why eveyone else Goku fights isn't sending out shockwaves, like Freeza or Hit.

A more likely answer is that the writers or Toriyama didn't think that universe shockwave thing through. Pretty safe to write it off as PIS, given it's never remotely mentioned again. stick out tongue don't copy what I said in different words. Lol

Sj_Sharp
Originally posted by NewGuy01
There's also the fact that the idea that SSR Goku was <<< 10% Beerus is a hard pill to swallow. Basically SSJ2 Vegeta level at this point.

Not true.
Nothing until now contradicts the 6-10-15 power-chain: who indeed said that the correlation between those numbers has to be linear?
If you consider them to be in a logarithmic scale, for example, everything fits in it perfectly and, in this way, it also is easier to see how it was possible to jump from Solar System range (Ssj3 tier Boo saga characters) to Universal tier or close to it (SSG and the Gods).

NewGuy01
The difficulty is that Beerus used 10% of his power to defeat SSJ2 Vegeta. Who was supposed to be infinitely weaker than SSJG Goku.

Sj_Sharp
Vegeta WAS infinitely weaker than SSG Goku.

The gaps between 1 (Vegeta), 6 (SSG Goku), 10 (Beerus) and 15 (Whis) on a logarithmic scale are massive: with such a scale, Vegeta is 10% of Beerus, but this translates on a linear scale in a gap of 10 orders of magnitude between the two.

Everything works perfectly.

NewGuy01
No, it doesn't. Because SSB Goku is also less than 10% of Beerus according to the last two episodes.

carver9
Based on. When was anything said about Goku being less than 10% of Beerus? If anything... the opposite was mentioned.

carver9
Originally posted by Kento
See, GOKU learned to null the universe destroying punches fighting Beerus. If SSR Goku is weak, and Beerus was lowered to such a low level why doesn't any of the other fights have the same power output though? Like that's one thing I don't get with ssb > ssr. Nobody else has shown Gokus ability to learn that fast. And fighting someone else you'd think would involve having to learn how to null it again.

LOL... just because Goku couldnt control his power while red doesn't mean that everyone else in the God tier cant. Remember, we seen universe threatening punches again during the Beerus and Champa fight but those are two beings that just doesn't care. What writer do you know of will have Goku during every fight threatening the Universe. Comics AND Anime doesn't work like that. Galactus has fought on a planet before with his all and did not even shed the rocks that was underneath him, does that mean he is weaker than Surfer who has shed planets during combat? Think about it.

Sj_Sharp
Originally posted by NewGuy01
No, it doesn't. Because SSB Goku is also less than 10% of Beerus according to the last two episodes.

No.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
No.

Beerus > 10x Kaioken SSB Goku.

carver9
Or Beerus was simply holding back. He did hint to this during the end of Goku and his scuffle.

cdtm
That's what Newguy said. Beerus > 10X Kaioken SSB Goku kind of implies he was holding back.

cdtm
Just looked through the entire thread again.

What reason is there to believe SSJ God is weaker? Because Blue came later?

Considering Red's time limit, which blue seems to lack, that's not really proof..

carver9
Goku said Blue is more powerful... cant get any clearer than that.

cdtm
When did he say that?

cdtm
http://aminomailer.com/page/anime/5252320/wtf-supersaiyan-god-red-stronger-than-ssgss-blue

carver9
Originally posted by cdtm
http://aminomailer.com/page/anime/5252320/wtf-supersaiyan-god-red-stronger-than-ssgss-blue

Goku said in DBS. I don't understand why you post something that is probably not legit. Where did Akira say this?

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
Goku said in DBS. I don't understand why you post something that is probably not legit. Where did Akira say this?

Posting unsourced, random videos as proof of time freezing, and talking about legit sources? You're one to talk.

He said it in an interview.

carver9
Originally posted by cdtm
Posting unsourced, random videos as proof of time freezing, and talking about legit sources? You're one to talk.

He said it in an interview.

I posted a clip where it was outright said during the fight against Hit that Hit freeze time. Do I need to post it again?

Where is the interview?

cdtm
And who subbed it? And why is it more accurate then the clips from reputable subbers where they call it "time skip"?

You're a biased idiot.

ares834
Holy shit. This garbage is still going on?

carver9
Originally posted by cdtm
And who subbed it? And why is it more accurate then the clips from reputable subbers where they call it "time skip"?

You're a biased idiot.


All of this preaching and everyone still knows that Goku moved through time stop. You can debate against it for days, you're convincing no one.

Inedian
So according to Akira Red>Blue?

Ok, if we really go by that SSR was 60% of 100% Beerus, than probably SSR>SSBx10. But who is to take DB seriously when they are always making something up or when something happened like it never happened, they completely dismiss it.

I know that Akira said that colour red looks stronger than colour blue, nothing said about its power.

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
All of this preaching and everyone still knows that Goku moved through time stop. You can debate against it for days, you're convincing no one.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't understand why you post something that is probably not legit. Where did Akira say this?

NewGuy01
With the recent episode, I'm conceding this, btw.

The idea that SSJG Goku was only ~5% of Beerus' power max is a hard pill to swallow, though.

Flower23
Ssbstomps cause ssr it Lacks in strength but strong in ki cause thats why ssr goku black was able to beat ssb vegeta but if ssr is stronger ssb, but Kaioken combined with ssb with kaioken curbstomp ssr

NewGuy01
R for Red, not Rose.

Placidity
My thoughts on this:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=635816&highlight=userid%3A114156

Once it is confirmed I will be dropping by Carver's house to force feed him his own shit.

It's not that you believe one way or the other - no one knows for sure at this point, its the fact you are too arrogant to even have a reasonable discussion.

NewGuy01
Well, in the manga, the relationship between SSG and SSB is confirmed. In the anime it's less clear, like a lot of things.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
thumb up

In the anime it's clearly stated multiple times that SSB > SSG, tho.

Placidity
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, in the manga, the relationship between SSG and SSB is confirmed. .

Whats the relationship in the manga? SSR > SSB or the other way?

NewGuy01
In the manga, SSB is stronger, but burns out quickly. SSR isn't as powerful, but it's far more efficient.

Placidity
Originally posted by NewGuy01
In the manga, SSB is stronger, but burns out quickly. SSR isn't as powerful, but it's far more efficient.

Interesting.

I think the real question is - how much stronger?

Because I could say the same about Base vs Super Saiyan 1. Yes, Base is more "efficient", but SSJ1 is 50x stronger. So it really wouldn't be a choice in this example - either your opponent is at SSJ1 level, and you MUST transform to stand a chance. OR, if your opponent is much weaker than SSJ1, then you would STILL transform, because you can end it quite quickly.

The only way that it would be rational to choose between using SSR and SSB is if it will be a long fight, AND the difference between the SSB/SSR is not that much - definitely not close to 2x (think SSJ2 Gohan v SSJ1 Gohan).

NewGuy01
It's hard to say exactly, but definitely nowhere in the ballpark of 50x. We know from the U6 tournament that SSB is in the ballpark of a ~10x multiplier on top of (post-Whis) SSJ. SSR is somewhere in between.

We do know is that a SSR has no chance of beating a SSB in a straight-up contest, though.

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