Oneness Galen Marek vs. Vitiate

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The Ellimist
The Galen that advances on Sidious's lightning

vs.

SWTOR Vitiate

Ignore telepathy

The_Tempest
Short of nexus-aid or prep, I'm not sure Vitiate's packing anything that could feasibly derail 'Killer.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Uhh, Vitiate.

The Ellimist
Oops wrong forum

Only a matter of time before I'm banned now

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Uhh, Vitiate.

Nephthys
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Uhh, Vitiate.

Syndicate
Galen was likely going to destroy Palpie in their force lock. Unfortunately his love for Juno and his friend clouded his heart and mind and he ultimately lowered his defenses and caused an enormous explosion to allow them to escape.

Beniboybling
laughing out loud

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Short of nexus-aid or prep, I'm not sure Vitiate's packing anything that could feasibly derail 'Killer.
He does.

Starkiller is not in the league of Vitiate.

Syndicate
Except he is. Even flagged from having fought through Imperial forces on the Death Star, Marek was capable of blasting Sidious and engaging in a force lock with him.

FreshestSlice
That's nice. Vitiate melts his face.

Syndicate
Don't see how given Galen has actively demonstrated superior lightning to Valkorian and actively defended himself from superior lightning ( Sidious's ).

DarthAnt66
Vitiate slaughters.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Syndicate
Don't see how given Galen has actively demonstrated superior lightning to Valkorian and actively defended himself from superior lightning ( Sidious's ).

lel.

ILS
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He does.

Starkiller is not in the league of Vitiate. Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That's nice. Vitiate melts his face. Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
lel. None of you dare to address him. smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I dare not pretend to care about Valkorion.

But it's mostly because I know exactly what arguments he'll use, he'll ignore quotes stating Galen was no match for Sidious or that Vader is on par with/beyond the more powerful starkiller clone, (which he'll also ignore), he'll pretend that Sidious was giving it his all when Galen "ragdolled" him, pretend that Galen's lightning is an actual threat to Vitiate in combat, (whereas someone like Vitiate has actually shown he can defeat strike teams and Vader-level force users with his lightning,) etc.

DarthAnt66
"Lightsabers clashed inside of the Emperor's observation dome, but Starkiller was ultimately no match for the power of Darth Sidious. Bombarded by Force lightning, Starkiller did not fight back but instead unleashed all the power of the Force within him, causing a tremendous blast that shattered the Emperor's tower and caused enough of a distraction to allow Eclipse and the Rebel Senators to escape."

Unless Marek plans on an heroing during this battle, Vitiate will absolutely destroy him. thumb up

FreshestSlice
youhadhimraisemeindarkness.wank

Syndicate
Of course Galen would not be able to match Sidious when he has to worry about allowing his friends and loved ones to escape not to mentioning exhausting his reserves fighting through hordes of Imperials on his way through the Death Star. smile

I mean the text even states that he actively lowers his defenses to allow his friend's to escape.

"They raised their blasters to gun down the Rebels as they fled up the Rogue Shadow's ramp. "No!" the apprentice cried, dropping his defenses to strike one last time at the Imperials."

Syndicate
Nice attempt though Ant. 10/10 for effort. smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You ***** about force reserves, yet don't wank Revan to Sidious tiers. What is wrong with you? smile

DarthAnt66
laughing out loud

Beniboybling
"Energy surged through him. He felt as though a star had blazed to life in his chest. Driven by concern for his friends rather than himself, he embraced the Force completely, utterly, and was rewarded with strength that made his efforts with the dark side look like those of a child. His nerves were on fire. Streamers of light radiated from his skin. His bones glowed like radiant lava."

Sounds really exhausted. erm

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
See, Ant? Beni is logical. smile

Aurbere
That text seems super familiar. I can't help but remember a similar description popping up elsewhere. mmm

Syndicate
Yes, it's common knowledge that drawing on strong emotions ( "drive by concern for his friends" ) can help to empower you though it will not fill reserves of energy that had already been emptied. That sort of power was within Galen all along.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Your argument still falls on itself regarding this thread because Revan's, "force reserve exhaustion" on the Star Forge is literally orders of magnitude more severe than whatever Galen went through.

Syndicate
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Your argument still falls on itself regarding this thread because Revan's, "force reserve exhaustion" on the Star Forge is literally orders of magnitude more severe than whatever Galen went through.

Oh? Do you have quotes detailing the exact distance between the point where Revan disembarked and when he reached Malak and the amount of enemies he had to fight through to get there? Regardless I assume you guys still believe Sidious is superior to a Star Forged amped Malak ( unless your wank has progressed farther then even I presumed was possible ) so it the end it doesn't really end up mattering does it?

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Syndicate
Oh? Do you have the quotes detailing the exact distance between the point where Revan disembarked and when he reached Malak and the amount of enemies he had to fight through?
You have that for Marek on the Death Star? erm

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Syndicate
Oh? Do you have quotes detailing the exact distance between the point where Revan disembarked and when he reached Malak and the amount of enemies he had to fight through to get there?

Actually, there's a quote confirming the amount of enemies IIRC, kek. Point being, fighting, I think the quote stated it was hundreds of dark jedi, shock troopers, and jedi-massacring Star Forge droids, defeating Bastila being constantly and wholely replenished by the Star Forge 3 times over, going through a room in which the SF spawned infinite droids, then defeating the most powerful known Sith Lord in the Galaxy with his jedi juice boxes along with the nexus amp on the Star Forge, ALL while Revan had to fight through the entirety of this immense nexus, would be more tiring than Galen fighting through the Death Star, lmfao.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Syndicate
Yes, it's common knowledge that drawing on strong emotions ( "drive by concern for his friends" ) can help to empower you though it will not fill reserves of energy that had already been emptied. That sort of power was within Galen all along. I'm seeing a lot of assertions and no evidence to support them, first off where is Marek stated to be exhausted? And why are you assuming being emotionally empowered wouldn't restore that strength? Let alone Oneness. erm

Syndicate
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You have that for Marek on the Death Star? erm

"Relying on luck wasn't going to get him any closer, either. The equatorial trench alone was over 500 kilometers long. He needed to find a map of some kind-or, failing that, a guide..."

He traverses through the trench freeing wookiees as he goes avoiding Imperials and fighting them off when he has to.

Syndicate
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Actually, there's a quote confirming the amount of enemies IIRC, kek. Point being, fighting, I think the quote stated it was hundreds of dark jedi, shock troopers, and jedi-massacring Star Forge droids, defeating Bastila being constantly and wholely replenished by the Star Forge 3 times over, going through a room in which the SF spawned infinite droids, then defeating the most powerful known Sith Lord in the Galaxy with his jedi juice boxes along with the nexus amp on the Star Forge, ALL while Revan had to fight through the entirety of this immense nexus, would be more tiring than Galen fighting through the Death Star, lmfao.

And then going on to fight Sidious? I'd question that tbh. I have no problem with Revan wank though so good on Revan for having such high force reserves just like Galen. smile

DarthAnt66
He didn't go across the whole 500 kilometers, lmfao. That's referring to the overall circumference of the Death Star, I believe.

Quote me on how long the passage was that he traveled and the exact amount of opposite he fought, since you wanted that for Revan.

FreshestSlice
Jaden Kor goes through armies as well. He must have the same Force reserves as Marek. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/1341734200.gif

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Dem force reserves sure helped a stronger Revan against a weaker version of Vitiate than the one in this thread.

The Immortal Emperor brings Galen to his knees, just like Sidious. smile

Aurbere
Jaden did it on a nexus too.

Syndicate
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm seeing a lot of assertions and no evidence to support them, first off where is Marek stated to be exhausted? And why are you assuming being emotionally empowered wouldn't restore that strength? Let alone Oneness. erm

I didn't say he was exhausted ( now who's making assertions? ). I said some of his force reserves would have been drained from fighting through Imperial forces and Vader.

Because being emotionally empowered simply allows you to accomplish what you're truly capable of and doesn't serve as a mguffin that ignores your expenditure of energy beforehand? Since there's no evidence Galen was in a state of Oneness that's not really relevant.

Syndicate
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He didn't go across the whole 500 kilometers, lmfao. That's referring to the overall circumference of the Death Star, I believe.

Quote me on how long the passage was that he traveled and the exact amount of opposite he fought, since you wanted that for Revan.

"A single human intent on taking on the entire Death Star."

"The scrawny Wookiee indicated that they should go west, following a route parallel to the trench."

"After much gesticulation and howling, it was apparently agreed that they would need to cross the trench and continue their journey on the far side."

The forces he fights off seems to be multiple patrols of stormtroopers, 2 TIE patrols ( made up of 3 fighters each ) and 3 ATAT walkers. He fights multiple other forces like this before and after this point.

Syndicate
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Jaden Kor goes through armies as well. He must have the same Force reserves as Marek. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/1341734200.gif

Not really unless they faced a duo like Sidious and Vader right after.

Syndicate
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Dem force reserves sure helped a stronger Revan against a weaker version of Vitiate than the one in this thread.

The Immortal Emperor brings Galen to his knees, just like Sidious. smile

Obviously they weren't enough meaning Revan is > Galen. smile

Syndicate
Going to watch GoT. I'll check out the responses sometime this evening.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Syndicate
Not really unless they faced a duo like Sidious and Vader right after.
Faced Marka Ragnos and Haxvion with nearly all the Dark Side energy in the known galaxy, which is infinitely more impressive.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Syndicate
I didn't say he was exhausted ( now who's making assertions? ). I said some of his force reserves would have been drained from fighting through Imperial forces and Vader.https://media.giphy.com/media/HZqtJcQs92T4I/giphy.gifOriginally posted by Syndicate
not to mentioning exhausting his reserves fighting through hordes of Imperials on his way through the Death Star.Originally posted by Syndicate
though it will not fill reserves of energy that had already been emptied.laughing out loud

FreshestSlice
Apparently "Force Reserves" are separate from physical exhaustion.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Syndicate
Galen was likely going to destroy Palpie in their force lock. Unfortunately his love for Juno and his friend clouded his heart and mind and he ultimately lowered his defenses and caused an enormous explosion to allow them to escape.

No

Syndicate
Originally posted by Beniboybling
https://media.giphy.com/media/HZqtJcQs92T4I/giphy.giflaughing out loud

Lol. Sorry I didn't say it exactly the way you wanted.

His force reserves were TAXED.

His energy had been DEPLETED.

Syndicate
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Faced Marka Ragnos and Haxvion with nearly all the Dark Side energy in the known galaxy, which is infinitely more impressive.

Quote?

Syndicate
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
No

Glad to hear your opinion as always. smile

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Syndicate
Except he is. Even flagged from having fought through Imperial forces on the Death Star, Marek was capable of blasting Sidious and engaging in a force lock with him.
My friend, I appreciate Galen Marek and have history of defending him in some debates. But I will stop you here.

Revan, under normal circumstances, couldn't even budge Vitiate from his position. And Revan is one of the greatest Telekinetics out there. I really doubt that Galen Marek can do much against Vitiate.

Palpatine's intentions were suspect in that confrontation. He was more interested in luring Marek to the Dark Side then destroy him.

Syndicate
Revan has feats greater then guiding down a Star Destroyer after having fought through entire armies including having casually blasted back a small army of hundreds of droids? 0_o

I'd love to know what those feats are tbh.

He was interested in securing a successor for the Sith line actually and after seeing Galen's performance against him he likely deemed him worthy of being his successor.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DTd1m3whtuI/VIxA_eeY2aI/AAAAAAAGcJw/WsCd95H8S38/s1600/p1_115%2Bcopy.jpg

The Ellimist
lol, this is Oneness Galen, the same one who catches Sidious's lightning and advances on him better than Yoda could. And we know Sidious is going all-out from this source that mentions his "desperation", it's right in that Kun vs. Vader thread and I'm too lazy to get it lol...

The Ellimist
Kek

Another staggering, painful step and the Emperor was within the apprentice's reach. With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight. The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain. Darkness threatened to envelop the apprentice's mind, but he clutched to consciousness with feverish will. He had to see this through. He had to.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Syndicate
Lol. Sorry I didn't say it exactly the way you wanted.

His force reserves were TAXED.

His energy had been DEPLETED. What has this got to do with what I want? Lel. If you're going to accuse people of putting words in your mouth, start by saying what you mean. wink

Beniboybling
Originally posted by The Ellimist
lol, this is Oneness Galen, the same one who catches Sidious's lightning and advances on him better than Yoda could. And we know Sidious is going all-out from this source that mentions his "desperation", it's right in that Kun vs. Vader thread and I'm too lazy to get it lol... Marek doesn't need Oneness, he's ragdolling Sidious all on his own. smile

FreshestSlice
I think Syn should post that comic again. Clearly we haven't seen it enough.

Syndicate
A stupendous idea my good chap.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Syndicate
Revan has feats greater then guiding down a Star Destroyer after having fought through entire armies including having casually blasted back a small army of hundreds of droids? 0_o

I'd love to know what those feats are tbh.
TFU sources are really liberal in the aspect of demonstrating powers of characters (developers also hinted at this). Therefore, I cannot offer comparisons for each feat of Galen Marek. However, there are additional methods to determine power of a character.

Revan's performance against Darth Nyriss is testament to his superb raw power because containing Sith Lightning through raw power is one of the most difficult tasks for a Jedi Master (pushes even the strongest members of the Jedi order to their limits). Revan also had the ability to channel both Light and Dark Sides of the Force to attain oneness-like state (at will) and unleash his most potent attacks in this manner. Revan is also recognized as the most powerful Jedi in galactic history prior to Yoda. So...

Galen Marek managed to endure Force Lightning of Palpatine but as I pointed out earlier: Palpatine's intent is suspect in the (officially recognized) chain of events. In the alternative chain of events, the contest was entirely one-sided in favor of Palpatine. So...

Syndicate
I'm listening.

While redirecting lightning as powerful as Nyriss's is impressive Galen did the same to Sidious's which has lit up worlds and his own lightning has powered equipment that has pierced through the hulls of ISD's. Oneness at will? Can you show me any other examples of him doing this outside of the Revan novel? Also can I get the quote for him being the most powerful Jedi prior to Yoda?

It's all about interpretation I find. Given Sidious was always trying to gain a more powerful apprentice to continue the RoT line and acknowledged his belief that Galen could have been his successor in the unofficial version of events, along with Galen's own performance against Sidious after having fought through both Vader and Imperial forces, well, it makes me think that Sidious would have been happy to sacrifice himself if it meant completing Galen's fall to the Dark Side and ensuring continued Sith rule in the Galaxy.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Syndicate
I'm listening.

While redirecting lightning as powerful as Nyriss's is impressive Galen did the same to Sidious's which has lit up worlds and his own lightning has powered equipment that has pierced through the hulls of ISD's.
When have Palpatine lit up worlds with Force Lightning? I don't think this is possible in literal sense.

Galen's feat of activating a gun that pierced through the hull of an ISD is not a meaningful example to cite here. It just tells us that Force Lightning can be useful in similar situations.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Oneness at will? Can you show me any other examples of him doing this outside of the Revan novel?
There is no other instance of it but possibility cannot be ruled out since many events featuring Revan lack have not been documented.

However, that showing is representative of Revan's innate talent:

Three centuries ago, Revan wielded the dual philosophies of Sith passion and Jedi tranquility to conquer his enemies; he even nearly assassinated the Sith Emperor.

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

Originally posted by Syndicate
Also can I get the quote for him being the most powerful Jedi prior to Yoda?
Yes:

In battle after battle, Revan had led the Jedi and Republic forces to victory. Realizing defeat was inevitable, Mandalore the Ultimate had challenge Revan to single combat, and Revan had accepted. Though the Mandalorian fought valiantly, in the end he was no match for the Jedi Order's most powerful champion.

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

---

Revan travels to a very iconic Yavin IV to go to battle and release the actual Emperor, one we thought who was defeated not long ago. The player is pulled into this struggle of two of the most powerful Force users, like ever, in the history of the Old Republic, if not beyond - Revan and the Emperor. (Michael Backus - SWTOR content writer)

---

Like Revan, The Emperor understood the Force in ways Scourge never would.

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

---

He was a living legend; the embodiment of myth and folklore; a figure that transcended history.

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

Originally posted by Syndicate
It's all about interpretation I find. Given Sidious was always trying to gain a more powerful apprentice to continue the RoT line and acknowledged his belief that Galen could have been his successor in the unofficial version of events, along with Galen's own performance against Sidious after having fought through both Vader and Imperial forces, well, it makes me think that Sidious would have been happy to sacrifice himself if it meant completing Galen's fall to the Dark Side and ensuring continued Sith rule in the Galaxy.
Well, I am simply pointing out what I have observed in the game that considers all possibilities (depending upon choices made).

It doesn't makes sense that the confrontation is entirely one-sided (during alternative chain of events) but not one-sided (during officially recognized chain of events). There has to be difference in intent in both cases.

The Ellimist
It's very convenient of you to obsess over vague accolades from random sources, but then dismiss the dozen explicit confirmations of Palpatine's supremacy. thumb up

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Syndicate
Oneness at will? Can you show me any other examples of him doing this outside of the Revan novel?
Well, it's called Force in Balance. It's Revan's trademark technique. He uses it on the Foundry also.


No shit he's the most powerful prior to Yoda. erm Who the **** is greater? Nomi Sunrider? Lord Hoth?

Also: "Revan has become more powerful than any Jedi has ever dreamed of."

DarthAnt66
Anyway, DD, I get that you want people to "respect" Starkiller, but recognize that your efforts here are doing the opposite.

Like on ComicVine, you have mobilized the entire forum against you and persuaded virtually no one in return.

You are the bane of your cause.

Aurbere
I wonder when Starkiller is going to reach the same point Bane has.

Beniboybling
At this rate, he'll be joining Bane in the grave very soon. mmm

Aurbere
If he does, I can safely say that I called it ever since Syndicate said Galen was Yoda level.

Syndicate
@Legends


When have Palpatine lit up worlds with Force Lightning? I don't think this is possible in literal sense.

Galen's feat of activating a gun that pierced through the hull of an ISD is not a meaningful example to cite here. It just tells us that Force Lightning can be useful in similar situations.

I don't have the quote on me but I believe Ell does.

Well it tells us what Galen himself is capable of in regards to this ability ( probably more given he fought through an army beforehand and had grown in power by the time he fought Palpatine ).

There is no other instance of it but possibility cannot be ruled out since many events featuring Revan lack have not been documented.

However, that showing is representative of Revan's innate talent:

Three centuries ago, Revan wielded the dual philosophies of Sith passion and Jedi tranquility to conquer his enemies; he even nearly assassinated the Sith Emperor.

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia


Galen himself uses both the light and darkside. It doesn't mean he's in a constant state of Oneness or can achieve it at will and neither do the quotes you provided mean that for Revan.

To address the quotes you provided.

For the first one that doesn't say that he was the most powerful up to that point or between his time and Yoda's. Only at the time Revan was a Jedi ( during the Mandalorian Wars ) he was the most powerful of them.

Is the second an official source or just the opinion of the person stating it?

The third quote you provided simply confirms Revan is more knowledgeable then Scourge.

The 4th states that he's a living legend.

Regardless of the validity of the second quote none of the ones you provided confirmed he was the most powerful Jedi up to Yoda's time.

Well, I am simply pointing out what I have observed in the game that considers all possibilities (depending upon choices made).

It doesn't makes sense that the confrontation is entirely one-sided (during alternative chain of events) but not one-sided (during officially recognized chain of events). There has to be difference in intent in both cases.

I think the writers were probably trying to say that Galen drawing only on the darkside rather then his love for Juno made him less then what he was. As you say though it's up to interpretation.

Syndicate
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Well, it's called Force in Balance. It's Revan's trademark technique. He uses it on the Foundry also.


No shit he's the most powerful prior to Yoda. erm Who the **** is greater? Nomi Sunrider? Lord Hoth?

Also: "Revan has become more powerful than any Jedi has ever dreamed of."

Can you provide the gifs/quotes? Your interpretation of being able to call upon Oneness at will in regards to Revan is probably very different from mine.

So there's no quote confirming it then?

Syndicate
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Anyway, DD, I get that you want people to "respect" Starkiller, but recognize that your efforts here are doing the opposite.

Like on ComicVine, you have mobilized the entire forum against you and persuaded virtually no one in return.

You are the bane of your cause.

I'm pretty much ok with that tbh. Unlike you I don't have an unhealthy obsession with the standing of my character. :P

Syndicate
Originally posted by Beniboybling
At this rate, he'll be joining Bane in the grave very soon. mmm

They can embrace their paine despiur and ageny together. smile

Syndicate
Originally posted by Aurbere
If he does, I can safely say that I called it ever since Syndicate said Galen was Yoda level.

Your actual words were "I think that Galen is more powerful then people give him credit for and that your view is probably closer to the truth then some people would like to believe." smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Sidious has never lit up a planet with force lightning on his own.

Syndicate
Lol. Only able to gain momentum when I'm in class I see. :P

Syndicate
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Sidious has never lit up a planet with force lightning on his own.

Believe I saw Ell post about it. If it turns out to be inaccurate my apologies.

Aurbere
Originally posted by Syndicate
Your actual words were "I think that Galen is more powerful then people give him credit for and that your view is probably closer to the truth then some people would like to believe." smile

Sure I said that. But just because he's better than others think doesn't mean there won't be backlash against your stance.

Syndicate
Aurbie PM me. I can't PM you and you should probably be made aware of some information before this continues.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Syndicate
Can you provide the gifs/quotes? Your interpretation of being able to call upon Oneness at will in regards to Revan is probably very different from mine.

So there's no quote confirming it then?
Like I said, it's not "oneness" as it is utilizing "Force in Balance." To get in this state, all Revan has to do is let both sides of the Force run through him, which he also did on the Foundry for the first half of the fight. Just use Google to find the fight. When this happens, Revan can either channel this energy, in which he becomes vastly more powerful, unleash the energy, as he did when he pushed Vitiate, or focus the energy, in which he appears to have done to incapacite the coalition strike force and overshadow their Force powers.

Revan being stated to be far more powerful than any Jedi's imagination, which he was following channeling his Force in Balance technique (something he can do in combat), means he's the most powerful Jedi in history up to the time of the quote.

Syndicate
What are the best feats he's accomplished in state? The ones you mentioned?

The quote says he's become more powerful then any Jedi's ever dreamed. That seems to be saying that using both sides of the Force as he does he's become more powerful then a Jedi could be simply restricted to the Lightside of the Force.

Also what makes you think that the quote isn't era restricted even if your interpretation was correct?

Also that still doesn't matter for all eras after Revan's own.

Syndicate
Gotta get to my next class so all you groupies can come back out for the next few hours.

DarthAnt66
Why not look up some of your questions for yourself instead of asking ridiculous ones?

Syndicate
Well given we know what Revan's best demonstrated feats are I just wanted to be sure he accomplished it in this state to make sure you can't wank him to even higher levels then you already do.

Now, I really have to get to class. Feel free to continue this discussion. Maybe you'll make some decent points. smile

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Syndicate
Your actual words were "I think that Galen is more powerful then people give him credit for and that your view is probably closer to the truth then some people would like to believe." smile Exposed. uhuh

Nephthys
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan being stated to be far more powerful than any Jedi's imagination, which he was following channeling his Force in Balance technique (something he can do in combat), means he's the most powerful Jedi in history up to the time of the quote.

Or it's an obvious ANH quote that's not meant to be taken seriously.

DarthAnt66
Third-person narrator is as serious as you can get in that game.

The_Tempest
What's the actual source of that quote, btw?

Nephthys
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Third-person narrator is as serious as you can get in that game.

Its an obvious joke. erm

Syndicate
You think Ant can take a joke about Revan Neph? Lol.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by The_Tempest
What's the actual source of that quote, btw?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvEjL0GWJGk&t=1m25s

The Ellimist
lol who cares if Revan is the strongest "Jedi" in history to his time? Who were his rivals?

Oneness Galen Marek can advance on canonically the most powerful sith lord in galactic history. He can easily advance on the much weaker Vitiate and then destroy him.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
smilesmilesmile

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Ellimist
lol who cares if Revan is the strongest "Jedi" in history to his time? Who were his rivals?

Oneness Galen Marek can advance on canonically the most powerful sith lord in galactic history. He can easily advance on the much weaker Vitiate and then destroy him.
This A > B > C logic.

You are assuming that Vitiate was much weaker then Palpatine during the era of Revan which is ridiculous. The novel asserts that Vitiate would have defeated even the Strike Team of Revan, Meetra Surik and Lord Scourge. Revan's allies wouldn't have changed the inevitable outcome even if they got involved. Chances of defeat were remote. Lord Scourge figured this out and decided to betray the Jedi. Moreover, it is not necessary that Palpatine matches Vitiate in every spectrum of ability. Revan's defenses were extremely formidable but Vitiate managed to overwhelm them. Do also keep in mind that if T3-M4 had not interfered, Vitiate would have utterly destroyed Revan.

Heck, Revan was so strong that he was able to heal his wounds to an extent (while T3-M4 and Meetra Surik preoccupied Vitiate) that he stood up and was ready to fight again. I doubt that any Jedi would be able to do that in his position.

Also, I have already highlighted that we witness two different outcomes in TFU (depending upon the choices we make). They are certainly open to interpretation but we have this neutral revelation:

Lightsabers clashed inside the Emperor's observation dome, but Starkiller was ultimately no match for the power of Darth Sidious. Bombarded by Force lightning, Starkiller did not fight back but instead unleashed all the power of the Force within him, causing a tremendous blast that shattered the Emperor's tower and caused enough of a distraction to allow Eclipse and the Rebel Senators to escape.

Taken from Star Wars: The Complete Encyclopedia

That revelation affirms the validity of alternate outcome. There are more signs that Palpatine's intent was suspect during the official outcome.

Syndicate
Which makes sense given he actively lowered his defenses to allow the Rebels to escape as I show above and he would have been fatigued from his fight against Vader and Imperial forces.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Ellimist
It's very convenient of you to obsess over vague accolades from random sources, but then dismiss the dozen explicit confirmations of Palpatine's supremacy. thumb up
They are all in-universe assessments. Majority of those sources do not cover history of Valkorion. We can assume that the scholars writing them were not aware of developments concerning Valkorion because they do not mention him at all.

The only sourcebook that recognizes existence of both characters (but only the earliest history of Vitiate) is already suspect about Palpatine's superiority; the accolade included the term "might be" in it. There is another source (representing real-world perspective of events in the lore) and it doesn't promotes any character as most powerful in galactic history, not even Abeloth.

I don't obsess over them but I use them when it becomes necessary. I have pointed out to you in other threads that I always focus on the bigger picture and never rely on a single approach to assess a character. I am not just highlighting the fact that Revan was the most powerful Jedi prior to Yoda but I am also highlighting his feats. You can see it.

Jmanghan
Galen Marek in Oneness would be the most powerful force user in the EU, period.

No one would even be able to touch him, not Sids, not Valkorion, not Abeloth or The Ones, no one. (Short of the Bedlam Spirits) No one can stop him.

Oneness gives you such an insurmountable increase in power thats impossible to ignore.

Ben Skywalker in Oneness was able to help contend against ****ing Abeloth.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
They are all in-universe assessments.

no Many of them are sourcebook statements, and two are literal authorial fiats (Lucas and an official interview answer on TFN.net).

But regardless, these sourcebooks are far clearer about Sidious's supremacy than the vague accolades you parrot about Valkorion.



The Plagueis novel does , and it labels Plagueis as the most powerful in history to his time. thumb up




There's no indication that these sourcebooks are written by "scholars", rather than an omniscient narrator, and regardless, there's no reason to think that these hypothetical scholars would have been unaware of Vitiate's existence.

Sith Spirits regarded Palpatine as the "greatest of all time", and they certainly would have been aware of the Sith Emperor.



If the sourcebook says "might be", it's probably not omniscient.



So what? The fact that not every sourcebook says something doesn't contradict the plethora that do, lol. Silence does not imply disagreement.



no expression

They account for a larger proportion of your argumentation than probably any other vs. debater's on the internet, lawl. You've actually become a walking meme for how frequently you brag about how Revan is "incredibly powerful" and an "expert swordsman". Lol @ suggesting that you use them sparingly.




Funny, because you try to dismiss Galen Marek's superior feats out of TFU being "liberal" in its depiction of the Force, but then awe over vague in-universe claims about Tulak Hord taking down starships and armies of Jedi. Clearly your integrity and consistency are models for us all to emulate. thumb up

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Galen Marek in Oneness would be the most powerful force user in the EU, period.

No one would even be able to touch him, not Sids, not Valkorion, not Abeloth or The Ones, no one. (Short of the Bedlam Spirits) No one can stop him.

Oneness gives you such an insurmountable increase in power thats impossible to ignore.

Ben Skywalker in Oneness was able to help contend against ****ing Abeloth.
I agree with the part that oneness may noticeably enhance power of a character for a moment, I disagree with your conclusions.

And Ben Skywalker could not contend with Abeloth for long. He and his companion retreated.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Ellimist
no Many of them are sourcebook statements, and two are literal authorial fiats (Lucas and an official interview answer on TFN.net).
Provide evidence of those two literal authorial fiats.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
But regardless, these sourcebooks are far clearer about Sidious's supremacy than the vague accolades you parrot about Valkorion.
Most are outdated.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
The Plagueis novel does , and it labels Plagueis as the most powerful in history to his time. thumb up
That is a back cover statement and it carries no credibility. I have clarified this here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=625725&pagenumber=3

You are not paying attention or deliberately ignoring my points because they challenge long-held beliefs.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
There's no indication that these sourcebooks are written by "scholars", rather than an omniscient narrator, and regardless, there's no reason to think that these hypothetical scholars would have been unaware of Vitiate's existence.
Provide evidence.

I have already proved that The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia is an in-universe sourcebook.

Now I am eager to see additional evidence.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Sith Spirits regarded Palpatine as the "greatest of all time", and they certainly would have been aware of the Sith Emperor.
Yes, Palpatine can be greatest of all time because he was a true Sith. Valkorion on the other hand...

Originally posted by The Ellimist
If the sourcebook says "might be", it's probably not omniscient.
It is the latest sourcebook (wanking Palpatine) and it covers only a small part of Valkorion's history. Nonetheless, it reinforces my point-of-view that Palpatine's former promotions are suspect in the light of latest developments.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
So what? The fact that not every sourcebook says something doesn't contradict the plethora that do, lol. Silence does not imply disagreement.
Real-world perspective based sourcebooks are logically 'most' authoritative. They represent views of the authors themselves.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
no expression

They account for a larger proportion of your argumentation than probably any other vs. debater's on the internet, lawl. You've actually become a walking meme for how frequently you brag about how Revan is "incredibly powerful" and an "expert swordsman". Lol @ suggesting that you use them sparingly.
Really? Check my response in the thread cited above. Much of it is about feats and accomplishments of Valkorion.

It makes sense to use terms such as "incredibly powerful" and "expert swordsman" at times to make a point. Perhaps you don't like them but many don't have qualms with using them.

My responses are typically in-accordance with the flow of the discussion. I cite quotes only when the need arises.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Funny, because you try to dismiss Galen Marek's superior feats out of TFU being "liberal" in its depiction of the Force, but then awe over vague in-universe claims about Tulak Hord taking down starships and armies of Jedi. Clearly your integrity and consistency are models for us all to emulate. thumb up
I am not dismissing them; I highlighted a fact that TFU sources did not shy away from demonstrating true powers of characters featured in them. I actually like this.

In-fact, I believe that Drew Karpyshyn should have focused on Revan's abilities and power in much greater detail in the novel. I believe that he utterly wasted a golden opportunity to do such a thing. He disappointed many fans with this novel.

You have comprehension problems, friend. Don't take it out on me.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Galen Marek in Oneness would be the most powerful force user in the EU, period.

No one would even be able to touch him, not Sids, not Valkorion, not Abeloth or The Ones, no one. (Short of the Bedlam Spirits) No one can stop him.

Oneness gives you such an insurmountable increase in power thats impossible to ignore.

Ben Skywalker in Oneness was able to help contend against ****ing Abeloth.
Ben in Oneness with all the power he could muster could only stagger Abeloth back half a step. Oneness doesn't put you on FOTJ Abeloth level, much less the level peak Abeloth and the Ones operate on. (Well unless you're Anakin)

Jmanghan
I don't think you realize how weak Ben Skywalker really was when compared to someone like Galen Marek.

Emperordmb
Okay look at Oneness GM Luke then (who kinda shits on Marek), Abeloth slammed him into the ground and almost crushed his throat.

The Ellimist
"Oneness" is a pretty frivolously used term. There's no reason to believe that the power boost is consistent.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by The Ellimist
"Oneness" is a pretty frivolously used term. There's no reason to believe that the power boost is consistent. No its not, and yes there is.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by The Ellimist
"Oneness" is a pretty frivolously used term. There's no reason to believe that the power boost is consistent.
thumb up

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Jmanghan
No its not, and yes there is.
Marek in Oneness can't kill Vader or Sidious while exploding.
Anakin in Oneness solos the Son and the Daughter.

No, it isn't.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Marek in Oneness can't kill Vader or Sidious while exploding.
Anakin in Oneness solos the Son and the Daughter.

No, it isn't. Marek wasnt in Oneness when he fought them.

He beat Vader legit, and then his clone beat Vader legit.

We're just supposed to believe they were both in Oneness?

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