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i wanna say nate grey pre shaman for low and magneto for mid, what do you guys think?

Ironfist

Originally posted by iceman24567
Ironfist

Iron Fist is in the class of his own.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Iron Fist is in the class of his own.

We call it the "special needs" class. They do a lot of finger painting.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Ironfist

seriously?

Originally posted by Surtur
We call it the "special needs" class. They do a lot of finger painting.

And they use the blood of karate kids

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And they use the blood of karate kids

Makes sense, I knew this whole "I got my power from a magic dragon" was nonsense. He got it from the blood of a god.

Originally posted by ghostman
i wanna say nate grey pre shaman for low and magneto for mid, what do you guys think?

There aren't answers to questions like these. Or if there are, there are half a dozen or more reasonable ones. The tier system itself might be a hierarchy, but within individual tiers, it's anything but.

If I were to offer my own reasonable but hardly definitive guesses, I'd say God Cable for mid and maybe Graviton for low. Low herald especially is intensely matchup-dependent. There's not really a great answer, imo.

Originally posted by Digi
There aren't answers to questions like these. Or if there are, there are half a dozen or more reasonable ones. The tier system itself might be a hierarchy, but within individual tiers, it's anything but.

If I were to offer my own reasonable but hardly definitive guesses, I'd say God Cable for mid and maybe Graviton for low. Low herald especially is intensely matchup-dependent. There's not really a great answer, imo.

thank you for answering the question.

Originally posted by Surtur
Makes sense, I knew this whole "I got my power from a magic dragon" was nonsense. He got it from the blood of a god. Whom he apparently beat while human. babby

Originally posted by ghostman
i wanna say nate grey pre shaman for low and magneto for mid, what do you guys think?

As with a lot of things....

'It depends'.

Low Herald, Hulk or SSJG Son Goku, mid Herald GL Kyle

Nah.

Have a look at the jostling and jockeying for position that went on with the tourneys, and you'll see that there is no perfect top dog.

I'd nominate Ikaris for King of the mid Heralds.

Firelord for low

Low Herald - Cassandra Nova

Mid Herald - Flash or Shaman

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Low Herald, Hulk or SSJG Son Goku, mid Herald GL Kyle
Hulk is low herald? Though that's what I expect fro myou

He's listed there.

As is Doom, Doomsday, Cassandra Nova et al.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Hulk is low herald? Though that's what I expect fro myou

That means superman and thor are high metas.

Originally posted by Digi
There aren't answers to questions like these. Or if there are, there are half a dozen or more reasonable ones. The tier system itself might be a hierarchy, but within individual tiers, it's anything but.

If I were to offer my own reasonable but hardly definitive guesses, I'd say God Cable for mid and maybe Graviton for low. Low herald especially is intensely matchup-dependent. There's not really a great answer, imo.

This might be the correct answer but the fanboy in me just HAS TO

Mid Herald - Captain Comet
Low Herald - Daimon Hellstrom

Originally posted by Digi
There aren't answers to questions like these. Or if there are, there are half a dozen or more reasonable ones. The tier system itself might be a hierarchy, but within individual tiers, it's anything but.

If I were to offer my own reasonable but hardly definitive guesses, I'd say God Cable for mid and maybe Graviton for low. Low herald especially is intensely matchup-dependent. There's not really a great answer, imo.

Graviton is a great answer. I was thinking him or Magneto in his prime. God Cable is also great but i was worried about him burning himself out. Personally id give BRB the nod for mid herald

Originally posted by Stoic
I'd nominate Ikaris for King of the mid Heralds.

Firelord for low

How the hell is Firelord below Ikaris?

Low- Captain Marvel

Mid- Black Bolt

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Low- Captain Marvel


Shazam himself gets his @$$ handed him by his kids who are low level demons (when the did it). A hell lord like Hellstrom is having no probs with his champion

Ikaris is above Mid Herald in my opinion.

Originally posted by beatboks
Shazam himself gets his @$$ handed him by his kids who are low level demons (when the did it). A hell lord like Hellstrom is having no probs with his champion

Carol Danvers

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Ikaris is above Mid Herald in my opinion.

I doubt that, Scott. I have a lot of respect for him, but he's not quite the sum total of his parts and can't really disperse a super high level attack. I think he is perfect as a mid herald.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I doubt that, Scott. I have a lot of respect for him, but he's not quite the sum total of his parts and can't really disperse a super high level attack. I think he is perfect as a mid herald.

When Captain America, Jimmy Hammond and Namor were fighting Ikaris. Cap stated that he was too powerful for them.

http://i.imgur.com/mWiUXS5.jpg1

Here's the whole fight for reference.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot

http://i.imgur.com/XeuYfHi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bZjyIII.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wz0ipAa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pz9SB6K.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pio1uHQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UKm95fC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mSJPwra.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RQDIMZy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CTQ2qLY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0PE1d19.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/igu7OGs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UJihycv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/12YE3yf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vP8PpD4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KYkqwmf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wniMNtu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CZQZgvX.jpg


And here's the respect thread.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=613247

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Carol Danvers

Only as Binary and then she's not low herald IMHO.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's listed there.

As is Doom, Doomsday, Cassandra Nova et al.
Last time I checked he was listed in the middle.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t577922.html
Or is there a new thread?

Originally posted by beatboks
Shazam himself gets his @$$ handed him by his kids who are low level demons (when the did it). A hell lord like Hellstrom is having no probs with his champion
Wut? Cap will destroy Hellstrom.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
When Captain America, Jimmy Hammond and Namor were fighting Ikaris. Cap stated that he was too powerful for them.

http://i.imgur.com/mWiUXS5.jpg1

Here's the whole fight for reference.



And here's the respect thread.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=613247

What high herald do you think hed split or win a majority against

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Graviton is a great answer. I was thinking him or Magneto in his prime. God Cable is also great but i was worried about him burning himself out. Personally id give BRB the nod for mid herald

If BRB's mid herald, so's Thor. No mid herald's gonna take the beating he did from Blood and Thunder Thor, and still knock him on his butt.

Not to mention fighting him pretty evenly for Mjolnir.

Originally posted by cdtm
If BRB's mid herald, so's Thor. No mid herald's gonna take the beating he did from Blood and Thunder Thor, and still knock him on his butt.

Not to mention fighting him pretty evenly for Mjolnir.

I don't see bill doing the things Thor has done though.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
What high herald do you think hed split or win a majority against

I could start by saying he'd win a majority against Namor. When you see that battle he was trying his best not to attack while under mind control. And also to combine the fact that Cap said what he said.

Imagine him not holding back vs Namor.

Then you have the whole (even though I don't generally go by this) fact that Ikaris is the Prime Eternal which means he would technically have the power of Zuras but like I said I don't tend to use that as an example.

So I don't want to be to adventurous really. I'd say Namor he could easily defeat but it all really depends after that. Because if I said he could take Thor easily I don't know entirely how that would go. But I think he could beat Namor easily based on what we've seen.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I could start by saying he'd win a majority against Namor. When you see that battle he was trying his best not to attack while under mind control. And also to combine the fact that Cap said what he said.

Imagine him not holding back vs Namor.

Then you have the whole (even though I don't generally go by this) fact that Ikaris is the Prime Eternal which means he would technically have the power of Zuras but like I said I don't tend to use that as an example.

So I don't want to be to adventurous really. I'd say Namor he could easily defeat but it all really depends after that. Because if I said he could take Thor easily I don't know entirely how that would go. But I think he could beat Namor easily based on what we've seen.

Great assessment. I agree

Superman.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I don't see bill doing the things Thor has done though.

Read Stormbreaker. Waaay above mid herald in that thing.

Yah, but on average?

The Thor/BRB debate has happened 100 times. They stalemate each other in most categories, but Thor's versatility with Mjolnir is off the charts. He has dozens of feats that we can't just assume Bill could recreate. You may disagree with it, but in a nutshell, that's why Thor is HH and BRB is MH.

Also, sure, Stormbreaker. I read it too. But seriously go through the HH list and consider their best feats as well. There's wiggle room in all of this, but it's not without justification to have BRB at mid. And he's one of the most powerful mids, so everyone acknowledges that he's close.

As ever, the tiers are - and have always been - a rough guideline. About 90% of the discussion surrounding them revolves around people getting persnickety thinking that it's an absolute ranking. It's not. It's a rough gauge that was intended for people very new to the hobby, to get them up to speed on the forums, and for tourney purposes. It has almost no value for anyone who's been around for a while. except to fuel debate that has no true answer.

/srug

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Graviton is a great answer. I was thinking him or Magneto in his prime. God Cable is also great but i was worried about him burning himself out. Personally id give BRB the nod for mid herald

Yeah, Bill was my alternate to Cable.

Heres the list as per the Tierings here at KMC:

Middle
Adam Warlock, Alexander Nero, Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Bizarro Superman, Black Adam, Black Bolt, Cable (Full Power), Captain Atom, Circe, Cpt. Comet, Captain Marvel (DC), Count Nefaria, Damien Hellstrom, Etrigan, Evinlea, The Fallen One, Firelord, Firestorm, The Flash II (Barry Allen), The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), The General (Shaggy Man), General Zod, Gladiator, Green Lantern (Guy, John, Katma, Kilowog), Hulk, Hyperion, Ikaris, Imperiex Probes, Juggernaut (Classic), Kid Omega, Kurse, Lobo, Loki, Magus (Post-IG), Martian Manhunter, Maxima, Metamorpho, Mon-El, Morg, Nate Grey, Orion, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Red Shift, Sersi, Shaman, Skreet, Solomon Grundy, Supergirl, Supreme, Terrax the Tamer, Void (Wildstorm, no Creation Engine power), Waverider, Wildfire, Witchfire (Demon Form), Wonder Woman

Low
Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, Aquaman (DCNU), Argent, The Atom, Aztek, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Damage, Darkness, Darwin, Death's Head 3.0, Death Metal, Doomsday (DOS), Doctor Doom, Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Light II (Kimiyo Hoshi), Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Enchantress, Engineer, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Forerunner, Gammid, Gilgamesh, Gold Key Solar, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, Green Lantern (Soranik Natu), Guardian I (James Hudson), He-Man, Hector Hammond, Hercules (Immortal), Iceman, Invincible, Iron Man, Isis, Jade, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jack of Hearts, Jericho, Kalibak, Kang, Krypto, Lightray, Living Monolith, Loki (Ultimate), Lunatik, Madison Jeffries (BOX IV), Magneto (U), Major Force, Makkari, Man-Beast, Manchester Black, Marrina (Leviathan), Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Mr. M, Nimrod, Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Richard Rider (current), Plastic Man, Power Girl, Prime, Professor X, Raven, Ravenous, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Shadow King, Snowbird, Starhawk, Starman, Super Skrull, Stryfe, Superboy, Tempest, Thor (Ultimate), Ultra Boy, Ultra-Humanite, Ultron, Union, Vulcan, Wendigo, Winter, Witchfire (Normal), Zauriel


Now these tierings are imperfect, but as it is written, DoS Doomsday is the top Low Herald...

For the top dog in the Mid Herald tier, I honestly think Morg is the baddest character there...

Personally?

Doom in the Low, WW int he Mid.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Personally?

Doom in the Low, WW int he Mid.

You put Doom above DoS Superman?

Wonder Woman over Morg...I can see a strong argument for that, so that's a reasonable selection.

But Doom at the head of Low Herald?

Idk...I see several characters on that tierings list that possesses more raw power than Doom.

He's the most well rounded out of the entire tier, IMO. Spells that enable him to contend with a HH (Strange), tech that is arguably superior to his only other rival in the LHs (Stark), strength that contends with the Hulk....

His only lacking is speed, of course.

And that ignores him having to be gimped in forum matches. If BFR was turned on, time travel was allowed, prep etc (i.e. the full abilities of Doom was allowed), none of the LHs, IMO, can contend.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's the most well rounded out of the entire tier, IMO. Spells that enable him to contend with a HH (Strange), tech that is arguably superior to his only other rival in the LHs (Stark), strength that contends with the Hulk....

His only lacking is speed, of course.

And that ignores him having to be gimped in forum matches. If BFR was turned on, time travel was allowed, prep etc (i.e. the full abilities of Doom was allowed), none of the LHs, IMO, can contend.

So we are talking best all around opposed to who has the most raw power?

If we are talking about who is the most well rounded, then your choice of Doom is 100% correct...

But if its who has the most raw power, then someone like Jack of Hearts blows Doom away (you could make the same argument for DoS Doomsday, Graviton, and Mags as well)...

I'd place morg above WW

Originally posted by Genii96
I'd place morg above WW

Its close enough that I think a strong argument could be made both ways; Wonder Woman is very formidible...

None of these pussies you list would stand a chance against Flash or Shaman.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
So we are talking best all around opposed to who has the most raw power?

If we are talking about who is the most well rounded, then your choice of Doom is 100% correct...

But if its who has the most raw power, then someone like Jack of Hearts blows Doom away (you could make the same argument for DoS Doomsday, Graviton, and Mags as well)...

All those guys can be BFRd away.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
All those guys can be BFRd away.

Oh sure, but who'd win a fight is a different topic than who's the most powerful...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Oh sure, but who'd win a fight is a different topic than who's the most powerful...

I take power to also mean variety of powers.

Doom time travels and messes them up (which, again, he has done multiple times).

By most powerful, do you mean the one who can output the most energy (whether it be kinetic, in a punch, or an energy blast, or telepathy etc)?

Mid: Beta Ray Bill or Black Adam
Low: Magneto, Manchester Black, or Mr. M

why do some consider black adam as mid herald but superman as high herald

Same way BRB and Thor are in different levels.

Powersets largely are the same. One character just has way more highs than the other.

Originally posted by Dareangel
why do some consider black adam as mid herald but superman as high herald

Superman's Highs are off the charts. Adam will lose a scan/feat war.

Judging by these tiers, J'onn is the highest Mid-herald, because he should be abstract+.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Same way BRB and Thor are in different levels.

Powersets largely are the same. One character just has way more highs than the other.

Hulk highs are unmatched but he was still listed as mid Herald back then. There has to be more at play than fts.

Then why didn't you choose Hulk in the tourneys, especially as you knew his feats better than anyone? Not trying to trap you or anything, genuinely curious.

Look back at the fights you had, and imagine you had replaced one of your guys with Hulk. Would they have beaten them?

Conversely, do you think you'd have been able to beat Scoobs or whoever, had they chosen Hulk?

Hulk is not mid. Nor was DOS Doomsday, or Cassandra Nova.

The point was, he wasn't even chosen. People at least chose Cassie, or attempted to use Surfer, or chose Imperiex Probes, all of which were controversial.

Hulk didn't even make it onto the bench.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The point was, he wasn't even chosen. People at least chose Cassie, or attempted to use Surfer, or chose Imperiex Probes, all of which were controversial.

Hulk didn't even make it onto the bench.

True.

I just find it strange that arguably the biggest Hulk fan on the boards, who has access to plenty of Hulk scans (many of which he uploaded himself), and is well versed in the context to his defeats (and thus, can argue against any points others make)....in a mid herald tourney where BFR is turned off...does not choose him.

And then in a later thread, points out that he's ranked too low for a mid herald.

Because, when it gets down to it, the Hulk is absolute shit for battleboarding or any kind of logic-driven matchup.

Lets hold another tournament.

Carver is only allowed to use Wonder Woman, Dr. Doom, and Hulk.

All levels of Hulk.

Just all kinds of Hulking.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then why didn't you choose Hulk in the tourneys, especially as you knew his feats better than anyone? Not trying to trap you or anything, genuinely curious.

Look back at the fights you had, and imagine you had replaced one of your guys with Hulk. Would they have beaten them?

Conversely, do you think you'd have been able to beat Scoobs or whoever, had they chosen Hulk?

Psycho said no amping. He said that include Hulk as well.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The point was, he wasn't even chosen. People at least chose Cassie, or attempted to use Surfer, or chose Imperiex Probes, all of which were controversial.

Hulk didn't even make it onto the bench.

Because Psycho said I couldn't amp with him.

Originally posted by carver9
Psycho said no amping. He said that include Hulk as well.

In the next tournament

All forms of amping will be allowed.

Unlimited Hulking.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Because, when it gets down to it, the Hulk is absolute shit for battleboarding or any kind of logic-driven matchup.

But he has strength, durability, hell, even speed fts better than Doomsday. Doomsday battles is the reason he is ranked in his spot, not his strength fts.

Originally posted by "Id"
In the next tournament

All forms of amping will be allowed.

Unlimited Hulking.

I would destroy.

Carter turned down my Cassandra Nova vs WBH challenge.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Carter turned down my Cassandra Nova vs WBH challenge.

Meet me here.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=634544

Originally posted by carver9
Psycho said no amping. He said that include Hulk as well.

Just did an advanced search for all of Psycho's posts in the BZ threads, which mention Hulk. Zero results relating to amping, or Hulk.

Just saying.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Just did an advanced search for all of Psycho's posts in the BZ threads, which mention Hulk. Zero results relating to amping, or Hulk.

Just saying.

I asked Psycho if I could use Hulk.. it was either in that thread or via PM and if I could use his amping abilities and he said if it takes him above the mid tier, then yes (I think that's how he said it). He banned amping which was the reason I asked. Talk to him yourself to get confirmation of this.

PMs are sacrosanct and private; I cannot possibly ask that of you two.

Hm. Who indeed.

Lol

Damn, I wasn't around back then to say Kang was the top dog of the low heralds

I guess I now get to say he's the top dog of the mid heralds