Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Vitiate as of SWTOR.

Sidious as of RotS.

Fight takes place on Dathomir.

Team 1. Sidious is superior to either, with Talzin/Vitiate following close behind. At the very least, Plagueis is the weakest one here - not by much, but he is.

Talzin > Plagueis?

Hence the thread. Some would argue that Vitiate > Sidious, that Plagueis > Talzin, that Talzin > Vitiate, etc.

I would argue that Plagueis is stronger than Talzin, but Sidious remains the MVP here, especially in a fight.

Plagueis might actually be equal with Talzin. I don't think Talzin's really weaker than him, though. She was pretty close to a Sidious thirteen years after surpassing Plagueis in power.

Both Plagueis and Talzin are inferior to Sidious by this point, clearly but not by a huge amount. I'd bank on Plagueis winning due to his far superior combat skills, and midichlorian manipulation. But it'd be close as shit.

Yeah, I'm assuming this is Force-only.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Plagueis might actually be equal with Talzin. I don't think Talzin's really weaker than him, though. She was pretty close to a Sidious thirteen years after surpassing Plagueis in power. Well Luceno says that Plagueis could have defeated TPM Palpatine in a fight, a point at which Talzin is prepared to be his underling.

And in general, I'm just more impressed with his showings and accomplishments.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well Luceno says that Plagueis could have defeated TPM Palpatine in a fight, a point at which Talzin is prepared to be his underling.

And in general, I'm just more impressed with his showings and accomplishments.

Sure. But Palpatine surpassed Plagueis after he killed him. And then there's thirteen years of growth to add onto that.

Talzin could've just as easily grown in those thirteen years since TPM as well.

Well that depends when you believe Talzin's meeting with Sidious occured, it could have been well before Plagueis' death but it also could have been after. mmm

EDIT: Also, Maul was taken by Sidious as a child, so actually we know this meeting at least pre-dates TPM, potentially by decades. In light of that I doubt Plagueis was dead.

My thoughts on a likely timeline are this.

Sometime before TPM, relative to Maul's age at that point (i.e. early 20s) a young Palpatine, apprenticed to Plagueis, met with Mother Talzin, promised to make her his right hand, then snatched her child. (This is how it happens in Legends, except Maul's mother is a Nightsister called Kycina and there is no exchange of knowledge.)

Then, nearer to the time of TPM, at which Maul has matured, Palpatine kills Plagueis and makes Maul his apprentice (confirmed in Force & Destiny that this is what occurred.) Noting Maul in Legends wasn't properly recognised as Palpatine's apprentice until he'd matured and after extensive trials.

This best aligns how events were depicted in Legends, while incoporating new relevations in Canon. And if we take this to be accurate, that means pre-TPM Palpatine > pre-TPM Talzin, and pre-TPM Plagueis as Palpatine's master >> pre-TPM Talzin, he should be significantly more powerful.

At the point of his death, presumably close to TPM, Plagueis grew much more powerful, so in that respect we can discount any growth Talzin had experienced over that same period; and considering Plagueis' use of midi-chlorian manipulation to make himself stronger, and general extensive study and access to the secrets of the dark side, it's probable his growth curve was greater, so the berth should be even wider.

i.e. Prime Plagueis >>> TPM Talzin.

Now as you say, this is Talzin more than 13 years on, over which period she likely grew stronger. But I very much doubt she closed what should now be a very considerable gap, let alone surpassed him.

Team 2 in a great fight.