Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

This is an all out fight; no holds barred. Starting distance is 20 feet - battle takes place on Dantooine.

Composite RotS Anakin; prime Exar.

I'd say Exar sorcery hacks, but peak Anakin might be so powerful that he just walks through it.

Anakin's certainly more powerful, but much like Luke I imagine he'd have a hard time dealing with the archaic sorceries of Exar Kun if they came into play. It could feasibly go either way, depending on how the fight proceeds.

Exar's sorcery while living works so well look how effective it was against the force sensitives in the Senate feat.

If Anakin manages to engage him in a straight-up duel before Kun goes all Merlin, he takes it. If not, not sure tbh.

Let us look @ da facts. Exar Kun is canonically unstoppable in combat:

Source: The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology

This means he is better than Anakin by canon, because Anakin can't stop him in combat because he's unstoppable in combat. And he can predict Anakin's moves, which is a bonus. Next he chokes out the extremely powerful, totally not lacking-for-TK feats Jedi:



Source: JA Trilogy: Champions of the Force

And they all totally had their defenses up. Like, legit defending(we'll just ignore how Streen managed to help them breathe just a moment later).
He also one-shots Luke Skywalker(we'll just ignore him having the aid of Kyp Durron, Luke not even defending himself initially, and it being a potent nexus).

Exar Kun stomps, we all need to accept this and move along with our little, insignificant lives.

Kun. Anakin is no match for his Force powers and sorcery.

Kun in all, however, sabers is a very close fight in sabers. Kun's unique style may catch Anakin off guard or even overwhelm him, assuming that Anakin doesn't go all Zonakin or something, it's not a fight he can win, but it's definitely close.

That's a pretty good argument to get me to support Anakin.

Originally posted by AncientPower


Try harder honestly, Exar Kun has 'extreme', 'enormous' power in life.

He's canonically:
> Muur, Nadd, Hord, Sadow, Kressh & Ragnos among the ancient Sith.
>> Thon, Odd Bnar, Vodo, Ulic, Nomi & Odan-Urr among Old Republic Jedi.
> C'boath, Cronal, Jerec, & Gethzerion among New Republic Dark Siders.
.

Proof Anakin is as powerful as elite Sith like Ludo Kressh and elite Jedi like Odan Urr?

Exar LOLstomps

Kun... I had no idea how Anakin was viewed on KMC...

Originally posted by Syndicate
Kun... I had no idea how Anakin was viewed on KMC...
You mean actually getting the respect he deserves and not getting lowballed through some of the most ridiculous arguments this side of the omniverse? Yeah...

>omniverse
>side
>kek

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
>omniverse
>side
>kek
Omniverses have sides, tho. If they didn't, how would they express how funny a certain ridiculous argument is without them noting that their sides hurt?
Omniverses are living things, BTW. Totally legit science 101, with MythLord.

Originally posted by MythLord
You mean actually getting the respect he deserves and not getting lowballed through some of the most ridiculous arguments this side of the omniverse? Yeah...

I did have some idea of how big of an Anakin wanker you were Wolf. :P

wrong section?

Originally posted by Syndicate
I did have some idea of how big of an Anakin wanker you were Wolf. :P
Wanker? LEL, and I suppose what you do to Malgus and Galen(despite lacking sources for the former) is just some charity work?

Tbh I hold no special place in my heart for Malgus. I simply think the feats of characters should be recognized.

I enjoy debating Galen but you already know why I hold the stances I do here on KMC so...

Anakin is not as powerful as people say. At absolute most he only approach's Dooku as a Force user, enough to not get owned by him. Exar Kun is far more powerful than he is.

Originally posted by Syndicate
I enjoy debating Galen but you already know why I hold the stances I do here on KMC so... Because you think he's handsome.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anakin is not as powerful as people say. At absolute most he only approach's Dooku in terms of a Force user, enough to not get owned by him. Exar Kun is far more powerful than he is.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anakin is not as powerful as people say. At absolute most he only approach's Dooku in terms of a Force user, enough to not get owned by him. Exar Kun is far more powerful than he is.
-Neph's opinion, the source of all knowledge in the universe.

Dooku pushed he and Kenobi back at the same time a good ways into the CW. He's always held the advantage over him in the Force.

Originally posted by Beniboybling


Being realistic Beni the best feat Anakin accomplished midcombat was force pushing Dooku ( which might have been when he was enraged anyways ) or throwing back around 20 B2's.

All his other feats were accomplished when he either had lots of time to focus or when he was enraged. Dooku's incapacitated multiple Jedi midcombat and has casually accomplished ( usually with a hand gesture ) pretty much all of his best feats.

This is RotS Anakin.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku pushed he and Kenobi back at the same time a good ways into the CW. He's always held the advantage over him in the Force.
And?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And?

And Exar Kun is much more powerful than Dooku.

So is Anakin. What is your point? I mean you think casual TK is the shit, but your opinion doesn't trump the author's.

Lmao, Neph Anakin has grown "vastly" more powerful since TCW.

So unless you can prove that Dooku prior to that was "vastly" more powerful than Anakin and then some, you are wrong.

Not that this shouldn't be self evident from his RotS stompage.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
So is Anakin. What is your point? I mean you think casual TK is the shit, but your opinion doesn't trump the author's.

My point is that Anakin isn't more powerful than Dooku, so obviously I disagree with that.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lmao, Neph Anakin has grown "vastly" more powerful since TCW.

So unless you can prove that Dooku prior to that was "vastly" more powerful than Anakin and then some, you are wrong.

Not that this shouldn't be self evident from his RotS stompage.

Thats vague and hyperbolic. He certainly hasn't demonstrated any Force feats above Dooku as of RotS.

I doubt that he's grown so much that he goes from being TK'd along with Obi-Wan and a bunch of spidermen by Dooku to being significantly more powerful than Dooku, in a few months or whatever. Again, he sure hasn't demonstrated that.

That wasn't a case of his Force powers though.

Anakin slaughters in a duel, Kun wins if he manages to use his magic.

Originally posted by Nephthys
My point is that Anakin isn't more powerful than Dooku, so obviously I disagree with that.

And my point is your opinion means less than shit because your opinion doesn't trump canon statements. Get over it.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And my point is your opinion means less than shit because your opinion doesn't trump canon statements. Get over it.

Are you going to offer anything more than some mean words or this the extent of your input?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats vague and hyperbolic. He certainly hasn't demonstrated any Force feats above Dooku as of RotS.

Yeah, it's not like Anakin has directly TKed Dooku or anything, it's not like he collapsed a massive dome easily, it's not like he's now substantially more powerful than when he was throwing around Republic tanks, it's not like he's doing most of the work to deflect Dooku's own Force Push, it's not like he's forcing Dooku to use more power than he needed to dispatch Kenobi just by bladelocking with him, it's not like he's practically canonically more powerful... no, not at all.

Ignoring circumstances again Wolfie boy? Don't worry I'll fix some of your errors. ^^

He collapsed that dome when enraged whereas he couldn't even blow a blast door off its hinged when emotionally conflicted. Obviously neither feats are the average of his capabilities.

Throwing around Republic tanks? He slid it across the ground you mean.

There's no evidence that Anakin was doing most of the work to shield from Dooku's force push. Just your own opinion.

Practically? Oh goodie that's just close enough for you to insert your own opinion and tout it as fact.

Dooku was throwing Anakin around at the same time he was throwing that tank, lmao.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats vague and hyperbolic. He certainly hasn't demonstrated any Force feats above Dooku as of RotS.

I doubt that he's grown so much that he goes from being TK'd along with Obi-Wan and a bunch of spidermen by Dooku to being significantly more powerful than Dooku, in a few months or whatever. Again, he sure hasn't demonstrated that.

That wasn't a case of his Force powers though. Vague and hyperbolic? Wow you really where your bias on your sleeve these days. It's an adjective with a clear definition, one you evidently grasp considering your arguments against it, and not the kind a person of any sense would apply to the gap between Dooku & TCW Anakin.

And your "doubts" are irrelevant and frankly unfounded considering the incredible growth curve of his son, and appealing to an absence of evidence to disprove the statement is a logical fallacy, try again.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Ignoring circumstances again Wolfie boy? Don't worry I'll fix some of your errors. ^^

Errors? You mean you trying to overexaggerate context?



The problem is Anakin is almost always enraged. It's his basic mindset to be angry in combat. The guy's just an aggressive fighter.



That's practically throwing it. Doesn't change the fact that Skywalker threw a tank a greater distance and with greater ease than someone like, say, Mace Windu.



Amazing appeal to ignorance, Syndicate. But I think it goes without saying Anakin will be doing more work than Obi-Wan seeing as how a "whipcrack as negligent as a flick of a wrist" of Dooku's power can dispatch Kenobi.



And an ad hominem... Wow, you're on fire today. But lets read what the quote says:


Source: Revenge of the Sith novel

Yeah, my statement is on point.

What statement?

Beni are you trying to apply Luke's growth curve to Anakin when Anakin's already been taught for over a decade by this point? I'm not saying Anakin's growth wouldn't be substantial but to suggest he'd grow as fast as Luke who had never even heard of the Force before ANH seems a little doubtful.

Neph still thinks TCW and RotS happen at the same time or something.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku was throwing Anakin around at the same time he was throwing that tank, lmao.
And Anakin then threw him back, as well, and this is years before Anakin grew vastly in power. So save your "lmao" for yourself.

Originally posted by MythLord
Errors? You mean you trying to overexaggerate context?



The problem is Anakin is almost always enraged. It's his basic mindset to be angry in combat. The guy's just an aggressive fighter.



That's practically throwing it. Doesn't change the fact that Skywalker threw a tank a greater distance and with greater ease than someone like, say, Mace Windu.



Amazing appeal to ignorance, Syndicate. But I think it goes without saying Anakin will be doing more work than Obi-Wan seeing as how a "whipcrack as negligent as a flick of a wrist" of Dooku's power can dispatch Kenobi.



And an ad hominem... Wow, you're on fire today. But lets read what the quote says:


Source: Revenge of the Sith novel

No I mean you're blatant errors made in the post above.

Except he's not. He's almost always conflicted trying to hold back his anger because it's not the Jedi way. We see this throughout his fight with Dooku.

Except it's not. Lifting the wight of an ATET and gathering momentum to launch it takes more energy then simply creating enough momentum for it to skid across the ground.

We've been over this Wolf. It was the suddenness of the attack that took Obi Wan off guard not the power of it.

"He reached for the Force to counter Dooku, but the attack had been too sudden." - Revenge of the Sith.

And what is that supposed to prove? Simply because Dooku too Obi Wan off guard with a force attack that doesn't have any relation with the amount of energy Dooku needs to block Anakin's blows.

Originally posted by MythLord
And Anakin then threw him back, as well, and this is years before Anakin grew vastly in power. So save your "lmao" for yourself.

Uh, no he didn't.

In fact in that movie, even Ventress whoops Anakin with TK and has him dead to rights before Ahsoka saves him.

^ True shiz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTgL4-gQRVs

1:23

You know that's not legit right?

@Syn No, I'm saying Anakin's growth curve makes sense considering his son's, and in general the normal rules don't apply to a the Chosen One.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
You know that's not legit right?

Scuse me?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No I'm saying Anakin's growth curve makes sense considering his sons, and in general the normal rules don't apply to a the Chosen One.

Fair enough, though I think we can safely assume his growth would have been less then Luke's...

Neph continues to blatantly ignore the parts of what he's quoting that point out Anakin's power growth from TCW to RotS. Strangely enough his silence on the latter remains one of his better arguments.

That's a deleted scene, so its unofficial material.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
@Syn No I'm saying Anakin's growth curve makes sense considering his sons, and in general the normal rules don't apply to a the Chosen One.

Regardless the fact stands that him becoming "vastly" more powerful doesn't mean he had to have eclipsed Dooku in his Force powers, significantly or otherwise. You have not established Anakin's growth curve at all, and pointing to Luke's is a blatant red herring. Anakin has never progressed like Luke did.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Neph continues to blatantly ignore the parts of what he's quoting that point out Anakin's power growth from TCW to RotS. Strangely enough his silence on the latter remains one of his better arguments.

I've no clue what you're talking about. Is that "vastly" thing? I already said it's not a quantifiable growth that puts him above Dooku.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Fair enough, though I think we can safely assume his growth would have been less then Luke's... Sure, but seeing as Luke went from being not able to use the Force at all to stalemating Darth Vader, in like a few years, that makes no difference.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
That's a deleted scene, so its unofficial material.

It shows what she should have been capable of by that point and in turn what Anakin would have been susceptible to.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sure, but seeing as Luke went from being not able to use the Force at all to stalemating Darth Vader, in like a few years, that makes no difference.

Well then we have to establish how much he's grown. How do you suggest that be done?

Originally posted by Syndicate
No I mean you're blatant errors made in the post above.
Which you decided to counter balance with your own errors?

Originally posted by Syndicate
Except he's not. He's almost always conflicted trying to hold back his anger because it's not the Jedi way. We see this throughout his fight with Dooku.

The fight where he was winning? Thank you for proving my point.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Except it's not. Lifting the wight of an ATET and gathering momentum to launch it takes more energy then simply creating enough momentum for it to skid across the ground.

Mace didn't lift it, though. He just pushed it.


Originally posted by Syndicate
We've been over this Wolf. It was the suddenness of the attack that took Obi Wan off guard not the power of it.

Yet, if Kenobi could counter is impossible to tell since he didn't get the chance to, plus it was a negligable amount of power from Dooku, so if Obi-Wan drew on more power to counter, Dooku would pour more power in the grip. Not to mention, you're talking about two completely different scenarios. I'm talking about how Dooku incapacitated Kenobi with a "whipcrack of his power",whereas you're talking about Dooku choking Kenobi.

Originally posted by Syndicate
And what is that supposed to prove? Simply because Dooku too Obi Wan off guard with a force attack that doesn't have any relation with the amount of energy Dooku needs to block Anakin's blows.

Yet, as the quote says, it does. It took him more power to block a blow from Anakin than it did for him to dispatch Obi-Wan.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Uh, no he didn't.

What movie did you watch?

https://youtu.be/Q6zGXR32dNE?t=61

Originally posted by Nephthys
In fact in that movie, even Ventress whoops Anakin with TK and has him dead to rights before Ahsoka saves him.

So Asajj floors him with TK(which lesser Force users have done to more powerful ones dozens of times) so that means Anakin is a bad Force user now? Also let's not forget that it's non-canon. It's about as valid as Maul pinning Sidious. LOL. Let's not forget Anakin in his prime would dominate Asajj any day of the week.

Just the same way as Maul should be capable of TKing Sidious and holding him against a wall?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Regardless the fact stands that him becoming "vastly" more powerful doesn't mean he had to have eclipsed Dooku in his Force powers, significantly or otherwise. You have not established Anakin's growth curve at all, and pointing to Luke's is a blatant red herring. Anakin has never progressed like Luke did. In means he definitely surpassed him, which is what you argued he didn't, don't change the goal posts now.

And the quote establishes it my friend, plain and simple, as does the fact he goes from getting handily defeated by Dooku in combat then one-shotted by his powers in AoTC, to giving him almost no advantage less than a few months later, to then giving Dooku difficulty mid-Clone Wars and shrugging off his Force powers, to ultimately surpassing and defeating him. In three years, that's prodigal growth, because he's the Chosen One lmao.Originally posted by Syndicate
Well then we have to establish how much he's grown. How do you suggest that be done? Erm, by looking up the dictionary definition of vast?

Neph, given your Scourge vs. Obi Wan arguments, I find it amusing that you've finally grasped the concept of quantifying growth curves. You are, steadily, gaining elementary abilities. This pleases me.

As for putting him vs. Dooku, the narrator says that Tyranus's mastery of the Force is rendered a joke against Anakin.

Originally posted by MythLord
Which you decided to counter balance with your own errors?



The fight where he was winning? Thank you for proving my point.



Mace didn't lift it, though. He just pushed it.




Yet, if Kenobi could counter is impossible to tell since he didn't get the chance to, plus it was a negligable amount of power from Dooku, so if Obi-Wan drew on more power to counter, Dooku would pour more power in the grip. Not to mention, you're talking about two completely different scenarios. I'm talking about how Dooku incapacitated Kenobi with a "whipcrack of his power",whereas you're talking about Dooku choking Kenobi.



Yet, as the quote says, it does. It took him more power to block a blow from Anakin than it did for him to dispatch Obi-Wan.




What movie did you watch?

https://youtu.be/Q6zGXR32dNE?t=61



So Asajj floors him with TK(which lesser Force users have done to more powerful ones dozens of times) so that means Anakin is a bad Force user now? LOL. Let's not forget Anakin in his prime would dominate Asajj any day of the week.

If you'd like to think that you can.

How did I prove your point? You were trying to say he was angry all the time in almost all of his fights. At least stick to the topic at hand.

0_o We're not talking about Mace... We're talking about Anakin.

The text infers that Obi Wan was going to counter it if it hadn't been so sudden otherwise it would have mentioned something like Dooku's power being too much for him.

Also if Obi Wan couldn't counter a grip/choke because it was so "sudden" I imagine a "whipcrack" of power would be too fast for Obi Wan to have countered as well.

An Obi Wan who did not have his defenses raised.

Nice ignoring that Ventress wasn't in her prime either. Lol.

Originally posted by MythLord
What movie did you watch?

https://youtu.be/Q6zGXR32dNE?t=61

Well firstly, you said "and then" when what actually happens is Anakin goes first. And secondly, Anakin catches Dooku by surprise midswing. Dooku then recovers and utterly overpowers Anakin.

Originally posted by MythLord
So Asajj floors him with TK(which lesser Force users have done to more powerful ones dozens of times) so that means Anakin is a bad Force user now? Also let's not forget that it's non-canon. It's about as valid as Maul pinning Sidious. LOL. Let's not forget Anakin in his prime would dominate Asajj any day of the week.

I wasn't aware that it was a deleted scene. And I didn't say it made Anakin bad, just nowhere near Dooku.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Just the same way as Maul should be capable of TKing Sidious and holding him against a wall?

They went to the trouble of actually animating the scene. It was cut due to time constraints. They obviously thought that Anakin and Ventress by that point in time were relative peers.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
In means he definitely surpassed him, which is what you argued he didn't, don't change the goal posts now.

And the quote establishes it my friend, plain and simple, as does the fact he goes from getting handily defeated by Dooku in combat then one-shotted by his powers in AoTC, to giving him almost no advantage less than a few months later, to then giving Dooku difficulty mid-Clone Wars and shrugging off his Force powers, to ultimately surpassing and defeating him. In three years, that's prodigal growth, because he's the Chosen One lmao.Erm, by looking up the dictionary definition of vast?

Their isn't a specific measurement for vast Beni. :/ And vast means different things to different people including the person who wrote the quote.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Nice ignoring that Ventress wasn't in her prime either. Lol. Because Ventress experienced the same growth as Anakin.

That feat is utterly irrelevant, and its not even canon.Originally posted by Syndicate
Their isn't a specific measurement for vast Beni. :/ And vast means different things to different people including the person who wrote the quote. This is the definition of vast:

adj. Very great in size, number, amount, or quantity.

You want something more specific? Go quantify what Anakin's stompage of Dooku in RotS amounts to.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because Ventress experienced the same growth as Anakin.

That feat is utterly irrelevant, and its not even canon.

Given her various showings throughout the Clone Wars and the fact that she was trained by both Dooku and Talzin and was seen as a threat by Sidious within a few years of the Clone Wars I'd say it'd be at least comparable.

Lol its not comparable at all.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol its not comparable at all.

Interesting opinion.

My opinions>

Originally posted by Syndicate
How did I prove your point? You were trying to say he was angry all the time in almost all of his fights. At least stick to the topic at hand.

Because Anakin's "conflicting emotions" rarely ever weaken him in combat, but it often does strengthen him(like when his fury held behind the walls of will allowed him to damn near dominate Dooku, all prior to getting enraged).

Originally posted by Syndicate
0_o We're not talking about Mace... We're talking about Anakin.

And I'm saying Anakin's feat is better. Focus.

Originally posted by Syndicate
The text infers that Obi Wan was going to counter it if it hadn't been so sudden otherwise it would have mentioned something like Dooku's power being too much for him.

But we don't know if the power was too much or not since Obi couldn't counter. If he tried, the end-result is something we do not know. But given how whipcracks of Dooku's power dispatched Kenobi... yeah, I doubt Kenobi would be breaking free of Dooku's hold. Especially when near-Kenobi level Force users like Quinlan Vos and Asajj Ventress get telekinetically manhandled by the Count.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Also if Obi Wan couldn't counter a grip/choke because it was so "sudden" I imagine a "whipcrack" of power would be too fast for Obi Wan to have countered as well.

Here's the problem: in the situation that was "too sudden" Obi was sneaking up behind Dooku and was not expecting anything. In the "whipcrack" example, he's literally staring at him. Besides, Force users like Kas'im have errected Barriers at an instant, so I'm pretty sure Obi-Wan could do that, especially when he's dueling one of the most powerful Sith ever and staring him right in the face.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Nice ignoring that Ventress wasn't in her prime either. Lol.

Nice ignoring that it's non-canon and prime Anakin can dominate prime Asajj, KEK.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well firstly, you said "and then" when what actually happens is Anakin goes first. And secondly, Anakin catches Dooku by surprise midswing. Dooku then recovers and utterly overpowers Anakin.

He doesn't catch him by surprise, and he doesn't utterly overpower him. He redirected a telekinetic wave and knocked Anakin back, he was given a similar treatment as Dooku.


Originally posted by Nephthys
I wasn't aware that it was a deleted scene. And I didn't say it made Anakin bad, just nowhere near Dooku.

Yet Anakin, even at this time, is near Dooku. Not his superior, but he is near him.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
In means he definitely surpassed him, which is what you argued he didn't, don't change the goal posts now.

And the quote establishes it my friend, plain and simple, as does the fact he goes from getting handily defeated by Dooku in combat then one-shotted by his powers in AoTC, to giving him almost no advantage less than a few months later, to then giving Dooku difficulty mid-Clone Wars and shrugging off his Force powers, to ultimately surpassing and defeating him. In three years, that's prodigal growth, because he's the Chosen One lmao.

Uh, what? How exactly does it "definitely" do that? It doesn't.

Did they change the meaning of vastly to become way the **** more specific while I wasn't looking? Does it now mean "way more than Kenobi power and change"? Because once again, Dooku was pushing back Anakin and Obi-Wan together shortly before RotS. Where the hell are you pulling this certainty that Anakin "definitely" greatly eclipsed Dooku in power as of RotS when, as you yourself admit, theres a complete absence of evidence to that claim? Its a non-specific term, ya goof.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Neph, given your Scourge vs. Obi Wan arguments, I find it amusing that you've finally grasped the concept of quantifying growth curves. You are, steadily, gaining elementary abilities. This pleases me.

As for putting him vs. Dooku, the narrator says that Tyranus's mastery of the Force is rendered a joke against Anakin.

I've been quantifying growth curves since before you even watched Star Wars, whelp. I simply consider it such a basic ability it isn't necessary to explain most of the time.

Because Anakin just dominated him in melee without his mastery being brought to bare. His mastery is a joke because it becomes irrelevant to the outcome. Anakin hasn't ever outdone Dooku with the Force prior to becoming Vader.

Originally posted by MythLord
Because Anakin's "conflicting emotions" rarely ever weaken him in combat, but it often does strengthen him(like when his fury held behind the walls of will allowed him to damn near dominate Dooku, all prior to getting enraged).



And I'm saying Anakin's feat is better. Focus.



But we don't know if the power was too much or not since Obi couldn't counter. If he tried, the end-result is something we do not know. But given how whipcracks of Dooku's power dispatched Kenobi... yeah, I doubt Kenobi would be breaking free of Dooku's hold. Especially when near-Kenobi level Force users like Quinlan Vos and Asajj Ventress get telekinetically manhandled by the Count.



Here's the problem: in the situation that was "too sudden" Obi was sneaking up behind Dooku and was not expecting anything. In the "whipcrack" example, he's literally staring at him. Besides, Force users like Kas'im have errected Barriers at an instant, so I'm pretty sure Obi-Wan could do that, especially when he's dueling one of the most powerful Sith ever and staring him right in the face.



Nice ignoring that it's non-canon and prime Anakin can dominate prime Asajj, KEK.



He doesn't catch him by surprise, and he doesn't utterly overpower him. He redirected a telekinetic wave and knocked Anakin back, he was given a similar treatment as Dooku.




Yet Anakin, even at this time, is near Dooku. Not his superior, but he is near him.

It did in LoE. It did in his fight against Dooku. It did in his fight against Obi Wan. It did in his fight against Obi Wan in the Clone Wars. It did when he rushed headlong at Dooku in AotC. It did in a number of other fights.

The demonstration of power is better sure. But why would Mace use more power then he has to to simply push the ATET off the cliff?

Oh and this.

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/57751487.jpg

The text suggests otherwise though you're free to interpret it how you will.

Vos and Ventress at the points they were dominated by Dooku telekinetically were not in their prime.

Apparently not given the text and actual events. Congrats. You've proved Obi Wan is slower to erect telekinetic defenses then Kas'im. ( I'm sure Emp will be happy to hear this. )

Nice ignoring that it was an animated scene cut for time and that Anakin has never demonstrated superiority over Ventress in their relative primes.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Uh, what? How exactly does it "definitely" do that? It doesn't.

Did they change the meaning of vastly to become way the **** more specific while I wasn't looking? Does it now mean "way more than Kenobi power and change"? Because once again, Dooku was pushing back Anakin and Obi-Wan together shortly before RotS. Where the hell are you pulling this certainty that Anakin "definitely" greatly eclipsed Dooku in power as of RotS when, as you yourself admit, theres a complete absence of evidence to that claim? Its a non-specific term, ya goof.Oh I get it, you so intentionally misquoted me so you could circumvent my argument and reassert your point. Nice.

Vastly is a specific enough term for us to logically conclude that is not the gap between TCW Anakin and Dooku, when the former is pressing him in combat and shrugging off his lightning, let alone in excess of that, anyone with a brain can work that out.

How Dooku pushing Anakin and Obi-Wan back in TCW is at all relevant to that is beyond me considering post-AotC Anakin did that to Dooku in the movie, its really not at all as impressive a feat as you are making it out to be.

And what? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, I was pointing out your use of a logical fallacy, not conceding a point.

That said, I find it amusing you continue to hand wave Dooku getting exhausted just by blocking his attacks as evidence of Anakin's superiority, "cause combat".

Alright. Going to the mountains. See you all in a few days.

Originally posted by Syndicate
It did in LoE. It did in his fight against Dooku. It did in his fight against Obi Wan. It did in his fight against Obi Wan in the Clone Wars. It did when he rushed headlong at Dooku in AotC. It did in a number of other fights.

It hindered him against Dooku because Dooku used Dun Moch. Malgus won't be shit-talking Anakin, he's not one to goad.



It still shows Mace have a lot more trouble than Anakin, though. Which is the major point.



The text doesn't suggest anything, though. But this is down to semantics.



Neither was Dooku, and Dooku dominated her on Vjun in 19 BBY(both were amped) and dominated both in Dark Disciple which is also in 19 BBY. So yeah, canon or Legends he dominates them.



You mean the text where you cherry pick and place the context of one quote onto another that has no bearing on it? Stop being ridiculous.



Nice ignoring how it's still not canon and doesn't matter. And he did dominate her, lol:

https://youtu.be/1dfnkLaYfh0?t=48

Actually, in this situation, Anakin was further from his prime than Asajj.

@Beni :

What part did I misquote and which argument did I circumvent?

Also I think you might need to edit that second line because I'm finding it had to figure out what "that is not the gap" means. Are you..... agreeing with me???

I'll respond after you've clarified.

My entire response where I said what I just had to effectively repeat?

i.e. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15731248#post15731248

And I mean that the gap between TCW Anakin & Dooku is evidently not at all vast.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Oh I get it, you so intentionally misquoted me so you could circumvent my argument and reassert your point. Nice.

Vastly is a specific enough term for us to logically conclude that is not the gap between TCW Anakin and Dooku, when the former is pressing him in combat and shrugging off his lightning, let alone in excess of that, anyone with a brain can work that out.

How Dooku pushing Anakin and Obi-Wan back in TCW is at all relevant to that is beyond me considering post-AotC Anakin did that to Dooku in the movie, its really not at all as impressive a feat as you are making it out to be.

And what? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, I was pointing out your use of a logical fallacy, not conceding a point.

That said, I find it amusing you continue to hand wave Dooku getting exhausted just by blocking his attacks as evidence of Anakin's superiority, "cause combat".

Now that I understand your poorly worded response, vastly could easily be applied to the gap between Dooku and TCW Anakin in terms of power. He's consistently smacked him around with the Force. That Anakin "shrugged off" his lightning, as in he got his ass kicked by it and it completely turned the tables on him, doesn't mean much considering Dooku's lightning is his least impressive attribute.

As I said, Anakin got Dooku in the middle of a lightsaber swing, he wouldn't be in a position to block it very well. When he gathered himself, he pwned Anakin right back. Sure, Dooku pushing Anakin wouldn't prove that great an advantage. But Dooku's done it consistently and in the case I'm talking about he did it to Anakin AND Obi-Wan. Pushing back one person may not mean you're better than that person. Pushing them and someone else back at the same time, while also flattening everyone around them, however, says quite a lot about their respective abilities. Especially considering Dooku did it very casually while defending against a dozen assailants.

I'm aware. But when you are making an argument, the fact that your argument lacks any evidence means that your argument lacks merit. You cannot prove or support your point if all you've got is your opinion of what "vastly" means.

Anakin's physical strength doesn't translate into TK.

Neph, do you seriously think that Anakin could have made Dooku's mastery of the Force useless...through his muscles? lol wut?

I think he made his mastery of the force useless by grabbing his arm and cutting his hands off, tbh.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Now that I understand your poorly worded response, vastly could easily be applied to the gap between Dooku and TCW Anakin in terms of power. He's consistently smacked him around with the Force. That Anakin "shrugged off" his lightning, as in he got his ass kicked by it and it completely turned the tables on him, doesn't mean much considering Dooku's lightning is his least impressive attribute.My response is worded fine; your comprehension skills are the issue here.

Regardless no, Dooku blasting Anakin with his lightning at point blank range, then again at point blank blasting him away with telekinesis into a pillar, without even affecting a KO and having Anakin get up literally 5 seconds later is a point in Skywalker's favour, not Dooku's. Especially considering Dooku barely overwhelmed him with TK just prior.

As is Dooku having four elite Magnaguards electrocute Anakin simultaneously to weaken him enough for a ragdoll, and still struggle to render the guy unconscious with his powers.

That doesn't suggest a vast gap, that suggests Anakin is increasingly approaching his power, as it's intended to. Dooku hasn't legitimately smacked Anakin around since Geonosis.You mean when Anakin forced Dooku into retreat, caused him visible fatigue then kicked him on his ass because his attacks had become slow and sluggish as to leave himself exposed?

Yah, that's another point in Skywalker's favour. A big one.
Yes, it suggests if it had been aimed at Anakin alone, he would have feasibly been blown away; but then Anakin did that to Dooku in RotS, so are you conceding he's better?Right, except the statement is my evidence, which has a dictionary definition. Why is this all of a sudden just about TK? You asserted that Dooku is more powerful than Anakin in general as a Force user, how is Force augmentation not relevant to that? It reflects the "tremendous" "impossible" Force reserves Dooku regarded RotS Anakin as possessing.

Reserves that Dooku was utterly incapable of combating with his own.

Exar blows up Anakin like he did to Aleema completely disintegrating her corpse like he did the Massassi worm completely by virtue of his own unamped, unaided, force power.

Exar can probably oneshot him and Kenobi at once