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Abstract Luthor:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/57845/1793628-luthor_supreme008.jpg

Abraxas:

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/28028/675286-casual_chaos.jpg

Rules:

- Abraxas without the Ultimate Nullifier and Lex without restrictions.

Who wins?

Abraxas

Luthor easily.

He was above Death of Endless in power. That's a very high position to be.

Hard to say. Luthor was very powerful after absorbing the Zone Child's energies... But he was also very unstable, and could only hold onto that power for a relatively brief period.

However, if we're assuming that Lex is able to maintain his peak for the purposes of this thread, then he should win. He completely halted all Entropy across the universe:
http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27385506_28.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27385507_29_30.jpg

...And Entropy is basically what Abraxas embodies. /shrug

Abraxas embodies destruction accross the multiverse+..he was warping and merging entire universes just by walking,was crushing the multiverse and caused the embodiment of the multiverse to sh*t his pants...

^ That's the thing: God-Luthor instantly halted everything negative across the universe. Everything.

Just like Death of the Endless, Abraxas should be rendered benign by Luthor's 'universal bliss' aura. What happens after that, however, is anyone's guess.

Except abraxas is a multiversal embodiment,that has multiversal reality warping abilities,a universal level ability isn't gonna make him flinch,I mean the actual multiversal embodiment is scared of this guy.
Its like saying if one can affect chaos king he can affect oblivion.

Sometimes is like

http://gif.co/wXy6.gif

Originally posted by Genii96
Except abraxas is a multiversal embodiment So are The Endless--yet even Death was rendered benign by Luthor.

Originally posted by Genii96
Abraxas
Yup.
Originally posted by Galan007
So are The Endless--yet even Death was rendered benign by Luthor.
Low showing for her because the scans 'only' show universal level power there.

Originally posted by zopzop
Low showing for her because the scans 'only' show universal level power there.

Please don't...

Originally posted by Galan007
So are The Endless--yet even Death was rendered benign by Luthor.
Death in 1 universe or death throughout the multiverse?

Is this fight taking place in one universe or throughout the multiverse?

He is fighting a multiversal embodiment of destruction with multiveral reality warping,a universal power is not affecting him. I am assuming lex has reality warping powers too,in that case whoever's powers are greater wins.
A universal power vs a high end multiversal power?

lol

facepalm

Originally posted by Cogito
Please don't...
Why not? She's being affected by a guy who's causing problems on a universal scale. I thought she was a multiversal being? Low showing it is then.

And Abraxas wins.

Originally posted by Galan007
facepalm

one would think you would know better by now....

woah he was able to neutralize death? what story is this?

Originally posted by leonidas
one would think you would know better by now.... "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

I hate myself right now.

Originally posted by dynamix
woah he was able to neutralize death? what story is this? For a very brief period of time, God-Luthor negated all things negative in the universe--this included entropy/death.

Action Comics #900.

Luthor should win.

Originally posted by zopzop
Why not? She's being affected by a guy who's causing problems on a universal scale. I thought she was a multiversal being? Low showing it is then.

And Abraxas wins.

Don't because characters using the word "universe" does not mean that for one f'ing issue they're demoted from multiversal to universal in scope.

Abraxas is the most powerful Marvel Abstract.

Abraxas strolls by creation and entire universeS merge and eventually collapse.

The Multiversal embodiments of Eternity/Infinity were helpless against him.

This is why a power greater than that of Eternity/Infinity was needed, ergo, the Ultimate Nullifier. (classic UN that is)

Hickman's UN? I don't know.

Good thing is Luthor was above that too.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Abraxas is the most powerful Marvel Abstract.

Abraxas strolls by creation and entire universeS merge and eventually collapse.

The Multiversal embodiments of Eternity/Infinity were helpless against him.

This is why a power greater than that of Eternity/Infinity was needed, ergo, the Ultimate Nullifier. (classic UN that is)

Hickman's UN? I don't know.

Would you say the UN is > the Infinity Gauntlet?

For that matter, is Abraxas?

Originally posted by cdtm
Would you say the UN is > the Infinity Gauntlet?

For that matter, is Abraxas?
Eh,the power of the UN depends on the mental ability of the user,
However eternity did state that in his totality,he was above the IG.
But as Mr master says, abraxas is at the top of the pack on a multiversal level

That's why destroying Eternity defeated him.

baka

Wasn't it the resetting of the multiverse that defeated it?

Imprisoned him again.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's why destroying Eternity defeated him.

baka Originally posted by Mindset
Wasn't it the resetting of the multiverse that defeated it?

Imprisoned him again.
That's exactly what happened. It took resetting Creation to beat Abraxas.

Originally posted by cdtm
Would you say the UN is > the Infinity Gauntlet? The UN's feat of instantaneously destroying/recreating the multiverse is well beyond anything the IG has done, tbh. So from a feats-only perspective, the UN is > in terms of scope/scale. However, most believe the IG still has a greater depth of power within any given reality. That said, in an 'IG vs. UN' battle, the IG *should* win.

sorry dc fans, abraxas takes this

Originally posted by Mindset
Wasn't it the resetting of the multiverse that defeated it?

Imprisoned him again.
It reset the reality and destroyed Abraxas.

And Abraxas had to use Ultimate nullifier himself to destroy the reality. He himself never had the power to do so.

Pathetic,abraxas wanted the UN because it was the one thing that could imprison him

Yeah, Abraxas never intended to use the UN. He acquired it solely so that it could be removed from play. He didn't want anyone using it against him(which, of course, is what Reed ultimately did when he destroyed/recreated the multiverse, lulz):
http://i.imgur.com/4oy1H0Gm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/0DiqF0pm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LZxLCebm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/fLe0M8Rm.jpg


Reed: "You NEVER intended to fire the Nullifier for the very same reason I MUST!" "In order to REALIGN ALL THAT IS -- we needed to END ALL THAT WAS."

Originally posted by abhilegend
It reset the reality and destroyed Abraxas.

And Abraxas had to use Ultimate nullifier himself to destroy the reality. He himself never had the power to do so.

Have you read the story?

His presence was causing realities to collapse.

... and yet, the posting with confidence.
Originally posted by cdtm

Would you say the UN is > the Infinity Gauntlet?

For that matter, is Abraxas?
The "new" (retconned) IG is meh, I don't know. There's been signs of ups, and then downs.

Starlin's IG is leagues above the power of the UN.

Starlin's IG made one "God" beneath the power of TOAA (or representative of such).

There was (imo, in Starlin's eyes, still is) nothing above that.
(save for THOTI which is connected to TOAA's power,
so imo, shouldn't really count, ... that, and it doesn't exist anymore)

God beneath.... TOAA....

So Starlin IG > Living Tribunal. O_o

I have to ask, where does Pre Retcon Beyonder fit into this. Above everything except TOAA?

Originally posted by cdtm

God beneath.... TOAA....

So Starlin IG > Living Tribunal.
When the LT confronted Starlin's IG, Starlin had the LT as a representative of TOAA's power.

Interesting question though, I still don't know for sure.
Starlin has recently changed the concept of the LT, and also Marvel's cosmology.
The characters are the same, but now every universe (of significance) is a copy of 616. (concerning the abstracts that is)
The cosmic hierarchy (specially Eternity/Infinity and LT) are the most powerful entities in any given universe,
and if you're = or above them, you're considered a "God."

Hickman, on the other hand, has a slightly different interpretation.
The LT is the final stage, the embodiment of the Multiverse,
while Eternity/Infinity are the universal embodiments of every individual universe.
Don't ask me how the LT ends up being the sum of them. That's some Hickman bullshit.

Both Hickman and Starlin regard the BeyonderS as above their hierarchies.
Originally posted by cdtm

I have to ask, where does Pre Retcon Beyonder fit into this. Above everything except TOAA?
He doesn't, cause he's retconned. But if he did exist today, as what he was supposed to be then,
he'd still be the most powerful cat ever.

Today, he would be the embodiment/entirety of the Beyond Realm.

The Beyond Realm is so vast, (even after Beyonder's retcon)
that the rest of Marvel "dwindles into insignificance" next to it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, Abraxas never intended to use the UN. He acquired it solely so that it could be removed from play. He didn't want anyone using it against him(which, of course, is what Reed ultimately did when he destroyed/recreated the multiverse, lulz):
http://i.imgur.com/4oy1H0Gm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/0DiqF0pm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LZxLCebm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/fLe0M8Rm.jpg


Reed: "You NEVER intended to fire the Nullifier for the very same reason I MUST!" "In order to REALIGN ALL THAT IS -- we needed to END ALL THAT WAS."
It wasn't like Abraxas had the power himself to destroy even Galactus of 616 reality. When confronted with Galactus, he tried to use the nullifier himself only to be punked by Galactus.

He has nothing but statements of power.Originally posted by Mindset
Have you read the story?

His presence was causing realities to collapse.
Yes, he was chaos and his presence weakened the boundaries of the realities.

That's gonna help him in the fight when Luthor can simply negate all the chaos and entropy around him.

Originally posted by Mr Master
... and yet, the posting with confidence.

The "new" (retconned) IG is meh, I don't know. There's been signs of ups, and then downs.

Starlin's IG is leagues above the power of the UN.

Starlin's IG made one "God" beneath the power of TOAA (or representative of such).

There was (imo, in Starlin's eyes, still is) nothing above that.
(save for THOTI which is connected to TOAA's power,
so imo, shouldn't really count, ... that, and it doesn't exist anymore) Originally posted by Mr Master
When the LT confronted Starlin's IG, Starlin had the LT as a representative of TOAA's power.

Interesting question though, I still don't know for sure.
Starlin has recently changed the concept of the LT, and also Marvel's cosmology.
The characters are the same, but now every universe (of significance) is a copy of 616. (concerning the abstracts that is)
The cosmic hierarchy (specially Eternity/Infinity and LT) are the most powerful entities in any given universe,
and if you're = or above them, you're considered a "God."

Hickman, on the other hand, has a slightly different interpretation.
The LT is the final stage, the embodiment of the Multiverse,
while Eternity/Infinity are the universal embodiments of every individual universe.
Don't ask me how the LT ends up being the sum of them. That's some Hickman bullshit.

Both Hickman and Starlin regard the BeyonderS as above their hierarchies.

He doesn't, cause he's retconned. But if he did exist today, as what he was supposed to be then,
he'd still be the most powerful cat ever.

Today, he would be the embodiment/entirety of the Beyond Realm.

The Beyond Realm is so vast, (even after Beyonder's retcon)
that the rest of Marvel "dwindles into insignificance" next to it.


Mindless wanking is always fun. Starlin's IG made the wearer supreme in one reality only too. Stated several times.

http://static.comicvine.com/api/image/2586483-warlockinfinitywatch10_10.jpg

Let me know I need to educate you more.

Originally posted by Mr Master
When the LT confronted Starlin's IG, Starlin had the LT as a representative of TOAA's power.

Interesting question though, I still don't know for sure.
Starlin has recently changed the concept of the LT, and also Marvel's cosmology.
The characters are the same, but now every universe (of significance) is a copy of 616. (concerning the abstracts that is)
The cosmic hierarchy (specially Eternity/Infinity and LT) are the most powerful entities in any given universe,
and if you're = or above them, you're considered a "God."

Hickman, on the other hand, has a slightly different interpretation.
The LT is the final stage, the embodiment of the Multiverse,
while Eternity/Infinity are the universal embodiments of every individual universe.
Don't ask me how the LT ends up being the sum of them. That's some Hickman bullshit.

Both Hickman and Starlin regard the BeyonderS as above their hierarchies.

He doesn't, cause he's retconned. But if he did exist today, as what he was supposed to be then,
he'd still be the most powerful cat ever.

Today, he would be the embodiment/entirety of the Beyond Realm.

The Beyond Realm is so vast, (even after Beyonder's retcon)
that the rest of Marvel "dwindles into insignificance" next to it.
Etenity has been retconned to being the embodiment of the omniverse again,

OT, abraxas shitstomps, if the multiversal embodiments of eternity/infinity were helpless,luthor gets turned to a worm.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Luthor easily.


Hahahhahaahahhahahaha...

Someone is upset.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Someone is upset.

Not really.

Yes really.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes really. Yes, you are highly upset all the time. We get it.

Molecule Man stomps.

Originally posted by quanchi112 Nice sig/avy.

Luthor can't win, no matter what happens. At the end he'll just freak out and decide he needs to direct all his power in an attempt to f*ck with Superman.

That is how Lex rolls.

^ Tbh, this really is a bit of a catch-22 for Luthor. I have absolutely NO doubt that Abraxas would be rendered benign within Luthor's universe. That is to say: Abraxas won't be collapsing the universe or w/e... If Luthor's power could negate Death of the Endless, it will negate Abraxas.

The thing about Luthor's power, however, is that he himself cannot use it to do anything negative(like attacking Abraxas), otherwise that universal 'null-field' he emits goes away. IOW, this would likely end in a perpetual stalemate, with neither party able to harm the other.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Tbh, this really is a bit of a catch-22 for Luthor. I have absolutely NO doubt that Abraxas would be rendered benign within Luthor's universe. That is to say: Abraxas won't be collapsing the universe or w/e...If Luthor's power could negate Death of the Endless, it will negate Abraxas.

Negate what though? His very presence was destroying realities. It's not like it was an action he was performing out of malice.

It's like saying fire wouldn't burn objects in Luthor's universe.

Death of the Endless does not operate out of malice either. She, like the rest of the Endless, simply embodies/represents a multiversal concept... But because Luthor's powers negated ALL things negative in the universe(literally), even Death/entropy was neutralized.

Here are the scans... Again:
http://i.imgur.com/nWEbRkfm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/QVKS9Uhm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/iyzuc91m.jpg

Death: "A wave of bliss rushing INSTANTLY across the universe! Entropy has STOPPED That's it for EVERYTHING negative So I get my first EVER time off."


So yeah, Abraxas would be rendered benign/inert just like Death.

What stops abraxas from attacking luthor universes away? Assuming his 'universal' field even tickles abraxas

Originally posted by Genii96
What stops abraxas from attacking luthor universes away? Assuming his 'universal' field even tickles abraxas The fact that nothing negative can happen in Luthor's universe. Attacking him from universes away doesn't change that.

It is also against forum rules, and constitutes self-BFR.

Originally posted by Galan007
Nice sig/avy. Thanks. Love the Winter Soldier.

I assumed when you said 'negate death' he actually faced the abstract embodiment and beat it.
That scan doesn't prove his field will contain abraxas,not even remotely,that's called a No limit fallancy
If the f*cking multiverse embodiment shit his pants at abraxas' sight, a guy with the power to remove negativity in 1 universe isn't doing sh*t
You are making luthor out to be IG 2.0
He puts up a negativity barrier? Abraxas uses his high end multiversal reality warping to turn it off.
When luthor actually begins to show multiversal power,then this can be nothing but a stomp
Negating the death of an object or being,isn't the same as beating the multiversal abstract of death
Until he does that,then this a is a freaking stomp.

facepalm

Originally posted by Genii96
I assumed when you said 'negate death' he actually faced the abstract embodiment and beat it.
That scan doesn't prove his field will contain abraxas,not even remotely,that's called a No limit fallancy
If the f*cking multiverse embodiment shit his pants at abraxas' sight, a guy with the power to remove negativity in 1 universe isn't doing sh*t
You are making luthor out to be IG 2.0
He puts up a negativity barrier? Abraxas uses his high end multiversal reality warping to turn it off.
When luthor actually begins to show multiversal power,then this can be nothing but a stomp
Negating the death of an object or being,isn't the same as beating the multiversal abstract of death
Until he does that,then this a is a freaking stomp.

Jesus ****ing Chris man! It's right before your eyes. Read the damn scan!

Death Of The Endless, who is a concept, the final Death in the DC Multiverse was rendered powerless for a time because she was not allowed to do anything negative, even if said negativity applied to her job, IE helping souls past on.

Luthor's anti negative field stop a Multiversal being from doing a job that is part of the natural occurrence in the Multiverse. That field deemed Death itself a negative concept, so it canceled it. That's why that guy with a broken body was still alive. Death couldn't make him pass on.

It's so ****ing simple reading that scan, and there's only one way to decipher it. No more, no less. Yet, there's a few of you that's trying to put your own spin on a straight forward explanation.

I have a field that negates time and space in 1 universe,...i can beat multi eternity/infinity...right?
Obviously neither of us are going to agree,so...agree to disagree

Not having read the issue myself, being mostly a lurking bystander at this point, it seems fully reasonable to me to assume that Luthor influenced the entire multiverse+, given that Death of the Endless has an multiverse+ scope.

She wouldn't have the day off if she were still working in infinity-1 universes.

Except it says he influenced the universe. And how many universes are there in total? Its 52 right?, hard to keep up with these retcons

Originally posted by Genii96
I have a field that negates time and space in 1 universe,...i can beat multi eternity/infinity...right?
Obviously neither of us are going to agree,so...agree to disagree

Ok!

Are you Death of the Endless? The very personification and Final Death in the DC Multiverse?

It's been alluded multiple times, all the aspects of Death are nothing to Death of the Endless. Once you meet her, it's game over for you. She's the end of Death itself. If she comes to you, you're not coming back to life, Ever!

It's even been said, once the Multiverse comes to an end, and it will, the only concept that will still be around is Death of The Endless herself.

So once more, DOTE operates on a Multiversal scale, Luthor's aura put her out of a job temporarily. Suffice to say, Luthor's aura is Multiversal.

Originally posted by SquallX
Jesus ****ing Chris man! It's right before your eyes. Read the damn scan!

Death Of The Endless, who is a concept, the final Death in the DC Multiverse was rendered powerless for a time because she was not allowed to do anything negative, even if said negativity applied to her job, IE helping souls past on.

Luthor's anti negative field stop a Multiversal being from doing a job that is part of the natural occurrence in the Multiverse. That field deemed Death itself a negative concept, so it canceled it. That's why that guy with a broken body was still alive. Death couldn't make him pass on.

It's so ****ing simple reading that scan, and there's only one way to decipher it. No more, no less. Yet, there's a few of you that's trying to put your own spin on a straight forward explanation.

Lex's powers should render Abraxas inert.

But by the look of Death, he'd simply be unable to do anything, but still "exist".

OTOH, Lex can't use his powers for evil, like outright destroying the Abraxas entity.

So, stalemate?

Originally posted by abhilegend

Mindless wanking is always fun.

Starlin's IG made the wearer supreme in one reality only too. Stated several times.

http://static.comicvine.com/api/image/2586483-warlockinfinitywatch10_10.jpg

Let me know I need to educate you more.
... you and your misinterpretations.

Starlin these nuts ...

http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27424962_IG_all_universes.jpg

"Thanos ... Supreme being of this" (616) "and all universeS"

-------------------------------------------

... and while you don't have a shred of evidence to prove Starlin's IG was constricted to 616,
I would love for you to post more "mindless" scans so I can eat you alive.

Originally posted by Genii96
Etenity has been retconned to being the embodiment of the omniverse again,

OT, abraxas shitstomps, if the multiversal embodiments of eternity/infinity were helpless,luthor gets turned to a worm.

It not retconned,eternity always embodiment of the Omniverse
But his consciousness extends only across the infinite prime Multiverse

Originally posted by Genii96
Except it says he influenced the universe. And how many universes are there in total? Its 52 right?, hard to keep up with these retcons The prime DC multiverse = infinite universes.

Originally posted by Mr Master
... you and your misinterpretations.

Starlin these nuts ...

http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27424962_IG_all_universes.jpg

"Thanos ... Supreme being of this" (616) "and all universeS"

-------------------------------------------

... and while you don't have a shred of evidence to prove Starlin's IG was constricted to 616,
I would love for you to post more "mindless" scans so I can eat you alive.

Yeah, cropped scans are fun. The full scan though says another thing.

http://i.imgur.com/YF6WMA5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RR2l48r.jpg

"Mastery over the universe."

That was stated like 10 times in 5 issues of that run by Starlin. Would you like me to post those too?

I honestly don't know why this is still going on?

This fight ends in a stalemate. Neither character can hurt the other.

Originally posted by SquallX
I honestly don't know why this is still going on?

This fight ends in a stalemate. Neither character can hurt the other.

That depends though on whether Luthor can maintain the field of bliss for a prolonged amount of time. I don't recall him doing that in the comic.

Originally posted by Utrigita
That depends though on whether Luthor can maintain the field of bliss for a prolonged amount of time. I don't recall him doing that in the comic.
Because being a luthor he had to attack Superman. Here he is not going to do that. And Abraxas is destruction incarnate. As soon as Luthor negates that, he should basically cease to exist.

Abraxas is one of the shittiest characters ever made. Even for Loeb.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, cropped scans are fun. The full scan though says another thing.

http://i.imgur.com/YF6WMA5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RR2l48r.jpg

"Mastery over the universe."

That was stated like 10 times in 5 issues of that run by Starlin. Would you like me to post those too?

No abhilegend, the full scan says both. Although Thanos himself declares as the supreme being over all universes, but it's clear he intends to achieve that with 616 IG.

And 616 IG proved to have power in other universes as well, but you can also argue that it doesn't mean it has the total mastery over other universes.

Molecule Man stomps.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because being a luthor he had to attack Superman. Here he is not going to do that. And Abraxas is destruction incarnate. As soon as Luthor negates that, he should basically cease to exist.

Abraxas is one of the shittiest characters ever made. Even for Loeb. Iyo which is garbage. Abraxas wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Iyo which is garbage. Abraxas wins.

I'll give you credit.

At least you're not Carver. (No offense, you Goku/Hulk three way lover you.)