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Maul > Kun confirmed, Temp.

Kun is no match for the Sith'ari who can collapse tents with a mere gesture.

Bane is canonically more knowledgeable than any Sith before him. And most masterful. Deal with it.

You lack vision Skillz, this quote clearly puts him above Valkoriate.

Vitiate wasn't mentioned in the source, therefore it does not, Beni. Clearly.

You lack vision if you think SKILLZ, and many others, haven't already discussed that. We took a page from his book and made a sacrifice.

It's not that Bane > Vitiate.

It's that Zannah > Vitiate.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You lack vision if you think SKILLZ, and many others, haven't already discussed that. We took a page from his book and made a sacrifice.

Exar easily

DMB too busy cleaning up to post rn.

Maul > Vitiate.

Inb4 it doesn't apply to Valkorion despite practicing Sith techniques.

Originally posted by Aurbere
DMB too busy cleaning up to post rn.
Implying I've finished to the extent of needing to clean up tbh

Ask me again tomorrow and maybe

Nope. It applies to Valkorion. Bane is more masterful in the ways of the Sith.

Revan >>>> Exar Kun confirmed.

Sidious >>>> Bane > Valkoriate more like.

In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if you actually believed that. mmm

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if you actually believed that. mmm The source material seems clear to me. mmm

Glad to see you subscribe to Revan being more knowledgeable in the Force than Vitiate then.

Not sure how you reached that conclusion, I imagine the logic is cancerous though.

It states Darth Bane is more knowledgeable than any Sith before him.

At the time, he only had the knowledge of the Sith Academy and the holocron of Darth Revan.

And then obviously note the knowledge contained within the academy was nothing to Revan's holocron.

So if basically Revan's holocron alone can make Darth Bane more knowledgeable than Vitiate, Revan would be too.

Simple logic.

Seems legit.

What Fresh said but with more sarcasm.

Do you have any legitimate rebuttal?

Bane probably. He is the Sith'ari. Which means he's stronger than any Sith before him since it's his destiny to become that powerful and destroy the old order and make it anew.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Do you have any legitimate rebuttal? Considering the source states Bane to be more knowledgeable in the Force than Revan shouldn't the response be obvious?

... what?

Unsurprisingly, you completely missed the point.

The only two sources of Sith knowledge Darth Bane has at this point is the Sith Academy's and Darth Revan's Sith Holocron.

The Sith Academy's knowledge is grossly inferior to that of Darth Revan's Sith Holocron as well.

If these two sources of knowledge alone places Darth Bane above Vitiate, then clearly Revan's own knowledge must be too.

And that would especially be the case in his prime. It's not that hard to follow the logic here.

However, given that Darth Bane admits he can hardly wrap his head around some of Darth Revan's knowledge, he clearly knows less than Darth Revan.

Therefore, it makes me question the validity of the statement. I did some research and believe the quote was merely summarizing the previous page.

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Clearly the similarity between the two quotes is obvious, but this one makes note of it just referring to the Sith Academy.

Otherwise, the quote would directly contradict both primary source material and logic (since Darth Revan does not know more than Vitiate).

Vitiate shits on Revan as hard as Revan shits on Bane

end of the story

To summarize what Ant is saying bit more concisely, Bane as of PoD (the time period that the passage is referring to) couldn't possibly be the most knowledgeable Sith in history when his primary source of knowledge was Revan's holocron. Given that the holocron didn't account for the knowledge Revan had gained afterward, or for other Sith who had more access to knowledge than he, it's much more probable that the quote is in reference to the Brotherhood of the Sith specifically. Especially considering the word choice of the previous paragraphs, which Ant provided above.

Thank you for translating. I don't speak wanker.

Cringe.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Thank you for translating. I don't speak wanker.

For someone who doesn't speak it, you are quite fluent.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q7rUXfVJWc4/maxresdefault.jpg

Originally posted by Aurbere
For someone who doesn't speak it, you are quite fluent.

Sometimes I get the urge to spout gibberish. Apparently I'm proficient in the dialect.

Edit your post and delete that atrociously large image immediately, I can't see anything.

I also get the urge to blind the denizens of this forum at times. This is one of those times.

I've moved to my desktop. My blindness has been cured, and I'm displeased with this insubordination I see. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/709352515.gif

I still see you as a role model milord.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Cringe.

You would do well to remember that there was a time you too called me master. Although you have chosen to follow your own path, you are still my foremost creation. That fact will never change.

Remember that Frankenstein was destroyed by his own monster

I may yet be. But not today.

Yeah, not for a while too, at this rate.

Such arrogance.

Well your not actually my master sas. Just a guy I respect. :6

Irrelevant. Be it directly or indirectly I may see to it that you evolve. Or not. I can be rather whimsical. Regardless the subject of my post was Ant; you need not worry about it.

Sure thing milord.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It states Darth Bane is more knowledgeable than any Sith before him.

At the time, he only had the knowledge of the Sith Academy and the holocron of Darth Revan.

And then obviously note the knowledge contained within the academy was nothing to Revan's holocron.

So if basically Revan's holocron alone can make Darth Bane more knowledgeable than Vitiate, Revan would be too.

Simple logic.

Nobody said the academy's knowledge was nothing next to that of Revan's holocron, just that it was less. So Revan has, as a lower bound, > 1/2 of Vitiate's knowledge in quantity. Nothing to see here...

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
... what?

Unsurprisingly, you completely missed the point.

The only two sources of Sith knowledge Darth Bane has at this point is the Sith Academy's and Darth Revan's Sith Holocron.

The Sith Academy's knowledge is grossly inferior to that of Darth Revan's Sith Holocron as well.

If these two sources of knowledge alone places Darth Bane above Vitiate, then clearly Revan's own knowledge must be too.

And that would especially be the case in his prime. It's not that hard to follow the logic here.I appreciate you putting in the (wasted) effort to restate your point, but I understand it just fine. What you don't seem to be understanding is why it's flawed; namely that it's dependent on Revan having at least equal knowledge to Darth Bane, given that from Revan he supposed learnt all he knew, or at least everything of value. Yet your interpretation of the source from which your positing this claim plainly contradicts that.

So either that knowledge Bane gained from the Sith Academy would be far more valuable than your letting on, or Bane's superior understanding of the Sith power would be derived from his own innate aptitude for the Force.

Altogether if Bane > Revan, Bane > Vitiate > Revan would contradict nothing.

Seriously tho, Bane is likely a superior duelist to Kun but Kun has the advantage of sorcery and of his amulet. Amulet spam has been a potent argument throughout KMC history and it's equally as effective against Bane. I doubt either will manage to overly impact the other with their conventional Force powers so the question is if Bane can tank Kun's amulets enough to charge in and defeat him in melee.

https://media.giphy.com/media/glmRyiSI3v5E4/giphy.gif

Oh, am I not allowed to respond to the thread seriously?

My bad.

Claiming Bane is a better duelist than Kun is a serious argument?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
https://media.giphy.com/media/glmRyiSI3v5E4/giphy.gif

Ha, I was just thinking about this movie. Think I'll rewatch it tonight.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Claiming Bane is a better duelist than Kun is a serious argument?

Yeah.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah. Goodness. And you assume such a claim can be made without bothering to support it?

AP gonna stomp Neph.

God help him if ILS intervenes.

Jk I won't

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Goodness. And you assume such a claim can be made without bothering to support it?

Usually when you make an evaluation about a fight there's no need to support your every statement. Most people can accept other people's opinions and understand why they came to those conclusions without needing an essay. I assume you are actually asking me to explain my position though. So I guess I will.

Bane and Kun are of similar levels of strength. Both are clearly power duelists. Bane is larger and more heavily muscled than Kun is iirc, though the degeneration of his body works minutely against him. I don't think either will be overpowering the other any time soon. However, Bane's speed feats are better than Kun's are. And he's stated to be faster than he was when he performed any of them as of DoE. This is a decisive advantage that gives Bane the undeniable edge. I doubt either will have a edge when it comes to skills. I don't believe Kun has faced someone with a hooked hilt like Bane's, but that's a minor advantage. Meanwhile Kun's unpredictable lightsaber and style gives him a big advantage, though Bane is intimately familiar with a double bladed lightsaber, probably moreso than Kun is given his limited amount of time to familiarise himself with it. Bane is also more than capable of forming an unpredictable offense himself, on top of an unbreakable defense. Personally I think Bane is the more technique-based fencer, while Kun is more raw power and ability. Possible, neither has the advantage in skill. Bane possesses a rigidly applied set of techniques, that still "maximise offense + defense" while Kun's abilities are more flexible but possibly less effective. In the end though, Bane's superior speed will give him the day.

Also Bane has a few thousand years of lightsaber technique advancement on Kun. Clearly an insurmountable advantage.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Also Bane has a few thousand years of lightsaber technique advancement on Kun. Clearly an insurmountable advantage.

Well yeh but we all know the Brotherhood that Bane graduated from is a group of degenerates who failed their ancestors in every aspect.

Kun's mentor didn't even use a lightsaber. Dude used a stick like a ****in' caveman. Sounds like a degenerate to me.

Old fashioned and degenerate aren't the same thing, bruh. This practically boils down to a comparison between 16th century knights and modern street thugs with cheap knives.

I think GoT already showed us who wins that fight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Usually when you make an evaluation about a fight there's no need to support your every statement. Most people can accept other people's opinions and understand why they came to those conclusions without needing an essay. I assume you are actually asking me to explain my position though. So I guess I will.If you assume most people will accept Kun > Bane as a duelist your in for a shock. Not seeing any evidence to suggest Bane is even approaching Kun's strength. And given Kun's lack of speed feats claiming Bane is faster than him seems rather baseless.

Kun's double-bladed lightsaber is also unique in the respect it utilises a one-handed not two-handed grip, so no he is not intimately familiar with this weapon.

And how Kun doesn't have the advantage in skill despite being unparalleled in his era, being the greatest of Vodo's students in over 600 years and having been described as "virtually unstoppable" in combat is beyond me.Too bad Kun was well ahead of the times in his era.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
If you assume most people will accept Kun > Bane as a duelist your in for a shock.

Agreed.

LMFAO.

That's a rather desperate overreaction. Originally posted by Nephthys
Agreed. You wish.

Bane's nowhere near Exar in dueling skill, Exar would rapestomp anyone Bane ever fought in pure sabers.

When has Exar Kun beaten Sirak, who knew how to mix moves and sequences in his attacks?

Bane beating Kun in a duel, when a prime Ulic Qel-Droma couldn't defeat a pre-prime Kun, is pretty hilarious. Ulic shitstomped a Nadd tier duelist as a Jedi and then vastly improved afterwards.

Kun himself gains the Dark Holocron and learns a 100,000+ years worth of Sith knowledge, which is almost certainly where he got his advanced designs and techniques for his saberstaff from. Take Kreia even slightly seriously and Kun makes guys like Malak and Revan look like children by comparison in a duel.

Warb Null is Nadd tier? Tbh that wouldn't increase my opinion of Ulic so much as plummet my opinion of Nadd. If it were true.

Bane is stated to have more darkside mastery and knowledge than Kun tho, kek. Also a 100,000 years? Wut? And Kun isn't the ancient Sith Kreia was talking about. Dude lived a handful of decades before the game.

Exar Kun was powerful enough to defeat Luke Skywalker (as of early NJO), who at this point had exchanged blows with Palpatine (to the point of outdueling him) and defeated Darth Vader earlier. We also have a number of other impressive showings of Luke to consider at this point.

I wouldn't argue Darth Bane's chances against Exar Kun.

Warb Null's armor is imprinted with Nadd's memories, he instinctively uses a Trakata technique and blocks blows almost as fast as thought due to this. Nadd by the way cas capable of keeping up with an expert lightsaber instructor before killing more Jedi than even Tulak Hord over the following century.

Jedi Ulic blitzed five Krath Warriors(force sensitives) and then Warb Null, decapitating the dark side master. This was whilst Ulic was being drained by Ommin, was on a dark side nexus and was being attacked by Null's own wall of dark side energy.

Ulic then goes to gain immense dark side power as a Sith and then faces Exar Kun.

Bane having more dark side knowledge than all Sith before him is impossible, given that all he had knowledge of by this point is Darth Revan's holocron, whom to begin with doesn't even scratch the surface of Vitiate's own Sith knowledge. This must logically infer that he has more knowledge than any member of the Brotherhood of the Sith, not all Sith in history. Therefore this statement is irrelevant as it pertains to Exar Kun.

The Dark Holocron is stated to contained the knowledge and histories of the Sith dating back over a 100,000 years. The techniques and designs Exar Kun used when he developed his saberstaff are stated to have come from the ancient Sith, hence the Dark Holocron. This means Exar Kun is using the very same lightsaber techniques as the 'true masters' Kreia refers to.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Exar Kun was powerful enough to defeat Luke Skywalker (as of early NJO), who at this point had exchanged blows with Palpatine (to the point of outdueling him) and defeated Darth Vader earlier. We also have a number of other impressive showings of Luke to consider at this point.

I wouldn't argue Darth Bane's chances against Exar Kun.

Kun didn't beat Luke in a lightsaber duel though.

Plus Kun had the aid of Kyp Durron and a massive Dark Side nexus.

The dark side nexus empowered Kyp is feeble compared to Kun's power.

Tbh isn't Kun said to be the deadliest Sith in history? That would make him a better combatant than the likes of Tulak Hord.

Wasn't that said before 90% of Sith were actually created or fleshed out?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
If you assume most people will accept Kun > Bane as a duelist your in for a shock.

Kek, didn't even fix this.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not seeing any evidence to suggest Bane is even approaching Kun's strength. And given Kun's lack of speed feats claiming Bane is faster than him seems rather baseless.

Kun's double-bladed lightsaber is also unique in the respect it utilises a one-handed not two-handed grip, so no he is not intimately familiar with this weapon.

And how Kun doesn't have the advantage in skill despite being unparalleled in his era, being the greatest of Vodo's students in over 600 years and having been described as "virtually unstoppable" in combat is beyond me.

Bane has disarmed Jedi Masters in one strike, he's torn metal apart with his bare hands and he's pulped a Sith's head with his foot. Also, lmao at your shitty fallacy. If Kun lacks speed feats then he hasn't demonstrated the ability necessary to keep up with Bane. Kun being able to keep up with Bane is what's baseless.

I meant that Bane is intimately familiar with the mechanics of a double-bladed lightsaber, in how to keep track of both blades at the same time and grasp it's capabilities. Using it in one-hand doesn't change that aspect of it.

Bane is also the best duelist of his era (though Kun was hardly unparalleled considering his duel with a wounded Ulic), and Kun being better than a host of randoms doesn't amount to much. Especially when their lightsaber techniques are so much less refined than the ones Kas'im taught, kek. Bane has also been called "nearly invincible", but then so has SF Malak and we saw how that turned out. Hyperbolic statements of invulnerability don't amount to much.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Too bad Kun was well ahead of the times in his era.

Ulic says hi.

Kun has beaten through a multi-feet thick wall of beskar, a lightsaber resistant iron, with a lightsaber. He's created blade clashes strong enough to echo for kilometers.

He also perfectly matched the strength of Ulic Qel-Droma, whom was a match for Cay who is implied to be just as powerful, who had a cybernetic arm, aided by two other Jedi, one of which was a giant lizard who casually lifted up a large sheet of steel and multiple heavily armoured Krath warriors.

Not to mention he smashed through Vodo's staff, which has been stated to be stronger than any lightsaber blade.. again with a lightsaber.

All of the above showings were pre-prime feats.

You talk of fallacies, well I haven't forgotten the fact that Jedi Exar Kun 'easily butchered' at least 28 Tomb beasts (A stronger Tuk'ata variant), whilst Bane in POD seriously struggles with 12 Tuk'ata.

As far as speed feats, Jedi Ulic speedblitzing 5 Krath + Warb Null who was capable of reacting to and blocking attacks almost as fast as thought, whilst on a dark side nexus, being drained, and suppressed by a wall of dark side energy. This was an Ulic before gaining 'immense powers' as a Sith Lord years later.

Yeh Kun being prime Ulic's perfect match physically, puts him well within mr.rain drops.

Furthermore, Ulic was only a match for Exar Kun before Exar Kun developed his personal fighting style, a style stated to make him 'virtually unstoppable' and 'unparalelled' in his time. This same style is developed using techniques from the ancient Sith whom are stated by Kreia(supposedly accurate statements according to Avellone), to make modern duelists look like children with toys.

Considering, as Beni pointed out, that Kun was the 'deadliest' of ancient Sith, he's likely even better than the Sith who, supposedly, made KOTOR era duelists appear to be infants in comparison.

Finally, Exar Kun doesn't wield his saberstaff anything like how Kas'im or Zannah wielded their's. He uses a single-handed approach that incorporates extensive Trakata techniwues and utilises precognition to lethally counter his opponent's moves with his own unpredictable techniques, allowing an opponrnt to overextend or block an incoming blade that is merely a beam of light, then solidifying said blade to deal the death knell.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Kun isn't just a match for Bane in combat, but his outright superior.

Ugh, give me a chance to respond to your first wall of text before writing another one, responding to an argument I'm having with someone else.

Is there any point in Beni replying now? I'd really like to deal with just one set of posts tbh.

I went to the effort of typing this out before I saw AP's response, and you deserve to be dogpiled anyway so I'm posting Originally posted by Nephthys
Wasn't that said before 90% of Sith were actually created or fleshed out?Seeing as it was reaffirmed in the TCSE that's rather irrelevant.Reflecting the extent to which I care. So? Exar Kun destroyed Vodo's lightsaber resistant staff twice over, cut through a wall of Mandalorian iron, and smashed a holocron with his bare hands. He's also more powerful and deadly a combatant than Marka Ragnos, who beat his pet Terantetek nightly with his bare hands, how does anything Bane has accomplished compare?Erm no if Kun lack speed feats you use other ways of assessing his ability, you don't assume he's lawls slow.

Like him being a more powerful combatant than Ulic, who blitzed five soldiers in split seconds before his prime; or his grossly superior strength to Bane suggesting superiority in Force augmentation as a whole.No, but it doesn't prepare him for its many other aspects. Like his ability to adjust the length mid-combat, as well as its intensity as to render it intangible, and his ability to wield it ambidextrously. And indeed the one-handed grip does fundamentally change how its employed.

If anything Bane's famililarity with the saberstaff will put him in a false sense of security, and lead him to expect a style that Kun will not employ. That can be just as dangerous as having no knowledge at all.According to what source? Or is that just your opinion?

And Ulic only stalemated Kun before he studied the lightsaber techniques of the ancient Sith, modifying his weapon and developing his "virtually unstoppable" style as a result.

And really what does Bane have on the lightsaber prowess of the ancient masters that Kun both inherited and surpassed?I find it amusingly hypocritical that you are now happily employing an argument you once derided as "retarded" or some such.

Regardless this is irrelevant as you've failed to provide proof Bane is anywhere near as far up the rungs in his era as Kun was.Better than anything Bane's received. :upee above hon.

So much cancer in one thread...

Originally posted by NewGuy01
So much cancer in one forum...

Fixed.