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Viktor off of Underworld vs Captain America.

1. Viktor has swords and Cap have shield.
2. H2H.

If this has been done, then my bad

Vic is stronger than Cap and has some h2h skills I could see him taking this

Viktor isn't stronger than Cap.

Huh?

People have been arguing Selene is stronger than WS and I agree. Viktor, physically dominating Raze is very impressive. Especially considering Selene directly ran from Raze once he turned into his Lycan form. She again ran from them in the apartment building. Clearly demonstrating that she was their physical inferior, which again stands to reason, since it was clearly shown over and over. Vampires are strong no doubt, super strong, but Lycans are stronger for the most part. We've even seen Raze before being turned was going h2h with a Lycan and doing very good. So he's clearly a notch above the rest. If he could do that as a mere human... imagine his strength as a lycan. Viktor manhandled him. Yeah, I'd say that puts him above Cap, or at the very least in the same tier.

Post-upgrade Selene is def stronger than WS. But I'm not too sure about pre-upgrade Selene (who was the one running from Raze) being stronger. What "feats" did pre-upgrade Selene have?

Anyway, Viktor may be too slow to handle Cap. Cap took on SM (someone def stronger and faster than Viktor) and took him down. I see Viktor's strength not being as much as a factor as a factor as ppl think (in beating Cap, I mean).

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Post-upgrade Selene is def stronger than WS. But I'm not too sure about pre-upgrade Selene (who was the one running from Raze) being stronger. What "feats" did pre-upgrade Selene have?

Anyway, Viktor may be too slow to handle Cap. Cap took on SM (someone def stronger and faster than Viktor) and took him down. I see Viktor's strength not being as much as a factor as a factor as ppl think (in beating Cap, I mean).

Michael, even though a noob, is considerably faster than Cap and stronger. Viktor was having issues with his speed, but that doesn't mean much for the following reasons:

1. He was still able to win in the end, and come out on top. Even though is speed initially gave him problems, he made it happen and countered his attacks and turned the tide.

2. Cap would also have issues with Michaels speed, and thus it's a non issue. He's faster than either Viktor or Cap.

In the end, I see Viktor taking this fight.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Michael, even though a noob, is considerably faster than Cap and stronger. Viktor was having issues with his speed, but that doesn't mean much for the following reasons:

1. He was still able to win in the end, and come out on top. Even though is speed initially gave him problems, he made it happen and countered his attacks and turned the tide.

2. Cap would also have issues with Michaels speed, and thus it's a non issue. He's faster than either Viktor or Cap.

In the end, I see Viktor taking this fight.

Michael had bursts of speed w/c he used on and off. IMO, prolly due to the fact that he was fighting more instinctively rather than tactically. In every showing where he used his speed, he was owning Viktor. It was only when he fought with dumb brute strength that Viktor was able to use his experience to gain the advantage.

There is no argument that Michael's movements (other than his bursts of speed) are considerably slower and very very less skillful than Cap's once he went H2H. Heck, I can't remember an instance where Michael actually moved at superspeed other than the instance he was moving around Viktor (and let's be honest, we really didn't SEE him move at superspeed, he just moved behind Viktor without us seeing as the camera wasn't pointing at him).

Spiderman was a different issue tho, he fought at full speed, used his strength, his webbing and his abilities. He had the tactical information of Cap as Cap was extremely well known (while Cap had completely no idea who he was) and was even briefed by Tony on how to take down Cap. He had every tactical advantage, fought to the best of his ability and still lost. He is stronger than Michael (by "feats) and certainly faster in terms of consistent fighting speed, yet Cap matched him and took him out.

Also, I can't remember many of Michael's strength "feats" tbh. What makes you say that he is stronger than Cap?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Michael had bursts of speed w/c he used on and off. IMO, prolly due to the fact that he was fighting more instinctively rather than tactically. In every showing where he used his speed, he was owning Viktor. It was only when he fought with dumb brute strength that Viktor was able to use his experience to gain the advantage.

There is no argument that Michael's movements (other than his bursts of speed) are considerably slower and very very less skillful than Cap's once he went H2H. Heck, I can't remember an instance where Michael actually moved at superspeed other than the instance he was moving around Viktor (and let's be honest, we really didn't SEE him move at superspeed, he just moved behind Viktor without us seeing as the camera wasn't pointing at him).

Spiderman was a different issue tho, he fought at full speed, used his strength, his webbing and his abilities. He had the tactical information of Cap as Cap was extremely well known (while Cap had completely no idea who he was) and was even briefed by Tony on how to take down Cap. He had every tactical advantage, fought to the best of his ability and still lost. He is stronger than Michael (by "feats) and certainly faster in terms of consistent fighting speed, yet Cap matched him and took him out.

Also, I can't remember many of Michael's strength "feats" tbh. What makes you say that he is stronger than Cap?

Problem is, he did have that kind of speed. I'm not sure if you're claiming it was just camera angles and he wasn't that fast, but I could disagree more if that is your stance. He was clearly so fast, that viktor couldn't even track his movements. We're talking about a being with enhanced perception himself and he was unable to track him on multiple occasions. I mean, it even looked like he was teleporting it was so fast and stealth. he far and away above Cap in speed, and frankly, it's not close.

I also disagree about Spiderman and the Cap fight. I view that fight as almost total PIS and CIS. Spiderman, in every conceivable way is above Cap, and yet they watered him down to lose cause it's a Cap movie. I don't buy it for once second. We have Spiderman casually and with the utmost ease take out Falcon and WS... WS as you've noted as done decently against Cap... Yet Spiderman can't take beat Cap, even after Spiderman curbed WS. That makes no logical sense. What's more, and the reason Cap won, was because Spiderman was almost a complete noob himself. He had only been Spiderman for a few months prior. He was a young kid. Everything he did or said stunk of inexperience. Which again, along with the former, means the victory didn't count for all that much imo.

Michael seemingly being Viktor's physical superior. The same Viktor who physically manhandled Raze, was getting handled himself. The Michael straight up went toe to toe with the strongest Lycan ever in William and physically overpowered him. That showing convinces me he's above Cap in strength.

Another instance of Kt disregarding the evidence because he's a fanboy. This is why no one takes him seriously.

Cap takes this

Never said he "wasn't that fast". I meant that since we really weeren't shown Viktor moving at said speed, we can't really quantify it. The best we can claim is that he traveled about 30 feet in 2 seconds w/c is still pretty impressive. Hell, let's say he moved out of camera view so he did it at a curve. So let's double the amount. Hell, let's triple it. 90 feet in 2 seconds or 45 feet per second. That's only about 30mph. Cap/Bucky/BP were outrunning cars on the freeway so let's let that sink in.

And when he used said speed, he owned Viktor. When he didn't, Viktor gained the advantage. So Viktor's entire success in that fight revolves around Michael not using said speed (and Michael didn't really use that said speed in his other fights either so, again, hard to quantify what he can really do). Essentially, Viktor's win against Michael was predicated on Michael fighting like an idiot and not using his superior speed.

You can call it PIS if you want, but it did happen. Cap beat Spiderman. Accept it or don't, it happened. I would be lying if I said I agreed 100% with how the fight went, but it did happen and no amount of denial on anyone (yours or mine) can change that. Also, Spidey wasn't watered down, he was using his speed, he was using his webbing he was using his strength. If anything, it was Cap that got a boost in portrayal and not vice versa.

And if you want to talk about "watered down" take a look at Michael vs Viktor's fight scene and look at how Michael (who was at first shown COMPLETELY superior to Viktor) allowed Viktor to grab him (cuz he just HAD to hiss at Viktor's face while planting him on that wall), allowed Viktor (who was kneeling) to uppercut him (even tho he's basically dodged all his attacks before with ease) and couldn't even dodge a few mooks who was shooting him with SMG's (something even BW could do). And the fact that he was actually in WATER while he was DOWN only adds an exclamation point to that. :P

Spiderman lost when he had his power and been using it for 6 months. Viktor gained the advantage against a Michael who's had his powers barely 6 minutes and has never really used it til that day. Not really comparable on the nooby-ness levels here.

Viktor is much much slower than Cap fighting speed-wise (based on their respective fights), has little/no strength advantage (tho I'm welcome to getting "featS" proving otherwise) and is nowhere near as skilled. Tactically, Cap has shown superior acumen and has beaten or taken on a foe superior to Viktor (or Michael) in speed and strength as well. With all his showings, his "feats" and how he has beaten opponents of a higher caliber, Cap takes this.

Skill wise Cap blows Viktor off the planet. Kt is a Cap and marvel hater.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Never said he "wasn't that fast". I meant that since we really weeren't shown Viktor moving at said speed, we can't really quantify it. The best we can claim is that he traveled about 30 feet in 2 seconds w/c is still pretty impressive. Hell, let's say he moved out of camera view so he did it at a curve. So let's double the amount. Hell, let's triple it. 90 feet in 2 seconds or 45 feet per second. That's only about 30mph. Cap/Bucky/BP were outrunning cars on the freeway so let's let that sink in.

And when he used said speed, he owned Viktor. When he didn't, Viktor gained the advantage. So Viktor's entire success in that fight revolves around Michael not using said speed (and Michael didn't really use that said speed in his other fights either so, again, hard to quantify what he can really do). Essentially, Viktor's win against Michael was predicated on Michael fighting like an idiot and not using his superior speed.

You can call it PIS if you want, but it did happen. Cap beat Spiderman. Accept it or don't, it happened. I would be lying if I said I agreed 100% with how the fight went, but it did happen and no amount of denial on anyone (yours or mine) can change that. Also, Spidey wasn't watered down, he was using his speed, he was using his webbing he was using his strength. If anything, it was Cap that got a boost in portrayal and not vice versa.

And if you want to talk about "watered down" take a look at Michael vs Viktor's fight scene and look at how Michael (who was at first shown COMPLETELY superior to Viktor) allowed Viktor to grab him (cuz he just HAD to hiss at Viktor's face while planting him on that wall), allowed Viktor (who was kneeling) to uppercut him (even tho he's basically dodged all his attacks before with ease) and couldn't even dodge a few mooks who was shooting him with SMG's (something even BW could do). And the fact that he was actually in WATER while he was DOWN only adds an exclamation point to that. :P

Spiderman lost when he had his power and been using it for 6 months. Viktor gained the advantage against a Michael who's had his powers barely 6 minutes and has never really used it til that day. Not really comparable on the nooby-ness levels here.

Viktor is much much slower than Cap fighting speed-wise (based on their respective fights), has little/no strength advantage (tho I'm welcome to getting "featS" proving otherwise) and is nowhere near as skilled. Tactically, Cap has shown superior acumen and has beaten or taken on a foe superior to Viktor (or Michael) in speed and strength as well. With all his showings, his "feats" and how he has beaten opponents of a higher caliber, Cap takes this.

I'm not just calling it PIS, it was PIS Nib, and you can even see that and did see that. You said as much. Clear cases of PIS are clear cases of PIS. When I see something isn't right, whether I can change it or not, I know what should've happened if it wasn't a Cap movie. You know it, I know it. Saying it happened so it's okay doesn't cut it for me and it shouldn't for you either. When you see a spade you call a spade, you don't call it a diamond just cause somebody says it is.

I agree, Michael fought dumb, and should've kept using his speed. He didn't for whatever reason. I'm not going to argue the point, but I will say, the fight wasn't over. Many times in fights you need to adjust to your foes tactics and speed. Last night we saw it with the Cavs vs. Toronto game. The coach kept saying, get used to their speed... they are playing faster than Miami did. Viktor likely would've adapted to speed, and for all we know, actually did so in the fight. Further, as you know, sometimes someone can look like they have complete control of a fight, only for it to be turned upside down on their head. Just because Michael was winning with his speed at first, doesn't mean he would've continued whether he stopped or not.

Pis is subjective but the facts aren't. Anyone who ignores facts is delusional and a fanboy. Kt is a known fanboy.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'm not just calling it PIS, it was PIS Nib, and you can even see that and did see that. You said as much. Clear cases of PIS are clear cases of PIS. When I see something isn't right, whether I can change it or not, I know what should've happened if it wasn't a Cap movie. You know it, I know it. Saying it happened so it's okay doesn't cut it for me and it shouldn't for you either. When you see a spade you call a spade, you don't call it a diamond just cause somebody says it is.

I agree, Michael fought dumb, and should've kept using his speed. He didn't for whatever reason. I'm not going to argue the point, but I will say, the fight wasn't over. Many times in fights you need to adjust to your foes tactics and speed. Last night we saw it with the Cavs vs. Toronto game. The coach kept saying, get used to their speed... they are playing faster than Miami did. Viktor likely would've adapted to speed, and for all we know, actually did so in the fight. Further, as you know, sometimes someone can look like they have complete control of a fight, only for it to be turned upside down on their head. Just because Michael was winning with his speed at first, doesn't mean he would've continued whether he stopped or not.

But that's the thing and what I've been saying all along. IF you see one fight as PIS, then you need to see BOTH fights as PIS. As it actually makes less sense for Michael to lose his fight to Viktor than it does for Spidey to lose to Cap. Viktor is slow AF in the movie. And Michael is so fast that he can move with blinding speed. Michael is stronger (as evidenced by him catching Viktor's punch easily) and has claws (doing more damage per hit). Viktor should not have stood a chance. Essentially, if Cap can't use the Spiderman fight, Viktor can't use the Michael fight.

And like I said, Michael's speed was great and all. But Cap/Bucky/BP demonstrated similar speed if you base it on travel time. Wasn't portrayed the same, but if you quantify, certainly similar. Viktor, however, has never demonstrated comparable speed. So, it's obvious who wins here.

By now Cap has much better feats then Viktor though he might be still faster.

Still I see Rogers winning.