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Who wins ?

Lucian...he was such a dope ass character.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Lucian...he was such a dope ass character. Based on ?

can someone post Lucian's h2h feats.. its ben a while I've watched the Underworld films

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on ?

Based on me liking the phuking character more Quan. Don't go full retard on me boo

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Based on me liking the phuking character more Quan. Don't go full retard on me boo

You're asking a lot of Quan to not go full retard mode Sin. Be a little more realistic

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Based on me liking the phuking character more Quan. Don't go full retard on me boo So you admit you're biased and that we should dismiss your opinion. I concur.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You're asking a lot of Quan to not go full retard mode Sin. Be a little more realistic Says the guy who didn't think BP was enhanced.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you admit you're biased and that we should dismiss your opinion. I concur.

Meh biased or not Bucky is still a notch above Natasha and below Steve. Lucian would wreck his ass

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Meh biased or not Bucky is still a notch above Natasha and below Steve. Lucian would wreck his ass He bested Steve and took him on with help. He isn't a notch below Steve. What the hell does this have to do with Lucian ? He got wrecked by multiple vampires.

Lucian wins, with ease. Too strong, too fast, too durable.

Originally posted by cdtm
Lucian wins, with ease. Too strong, too fast, too durable. Based on which scenes ? Have you seen WS or Civil War ?

Saw Cap 3 last weekend, and Cap 2 awhile back.

Winter Soldier is impressive, but Underworld characters are on another level.

Plus, he'd need silver weapons to kill him.

Originally posted by cdtm
Saw Cap 3 last weekend, and Cap 2 awhile back.

Winter Soldier is impressive, but Underworld characters are on another level.

Plus, he'd need silver weapons to kill him. Lycans can be killed without silver weapons. It's as if you haven't seen the film. Viktor snapped a Lycans neck just fine. Saying he is on another level isn't really proving anything. He was overwhelmed by vampires rather easily twice in rise of the Lycans and was taken out by Kraven of all vampires. WS has dissolved superior skill against superior opponents on top of having a metal arm that would break Lucian.

Unless Lucian can turn he gets beaten to a pulp.

Lycans in human for were pretty unimpressive strength wise.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Lycans can be killed without silver weapons. It's as if you haven't seen the film. Viktor snapped a Lycans neck just fine. Saying he is on another level isn't really proving anything. He was overwhelmed by vampires rather easily twice in rise of the Lycans and was taken out by Kraven of all vampires. WS has dissolved superior skill against superior opponents on top of having a metal arm that would break Lucian.

So saying WS has superior skills against superior opponents is "proof"?

Underworld vampires are >>>>> MCU super soldiers. They're blatantly super human, like most vampires are in other media. A single Vampire could rip Winter Soldier in half, no shame in Lucian struggling with such a formidable foe.

Originally posted by cdtm
So saying WS has superior skills against superior opponents is "proof"?

Underworld vampires are >>>>> MCU super soldiers. They're blatantly super human, like most vampires are in other media. A single Vampire could rip Winter Soldier in half, no shame in Lucian struggling with such a formidable foe.

This

Originally posted by cdtm
So saying WS has superior skills against superior opponents is "proof"?

Underworld vampires are >>>>> MCU super soldiers. They're blatantly super human, like most vampires are in other media. A single Vampire could rip Winter Soldier in half, no shame in Lucian struggling with such a formidable foe. Have you seen the feats from Cap and WS ? For ****s sake. We see humans walk the dog on these super vampires. They made them go into hiding for ****s sake. You're an idiot.

The vampires using weapons to shoot running Lycans down isn't impressive in the least.

Are you kidding me ? WS would beat the utter **** out of Lucian. His metallic arm would break into his weak flesh quite easily. Lucian was put down by weaponry used by Kraven and was taken down by the death dealers with medieval weapons. WS wasn't put down by super humans with modern day weaponry. Dear god watch the movies you blithering idiot.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
This Is blatantly wrong. You obviously haven't seen any of these films.

Lucian curbs him. This is a non fight.

Just curious what feats does Lucian have that puts him above Bucky?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Lucian curbs him. This is a non fight. Based off what ? Kraven killing him or medieval vampire weaponry easily taking him down before reinforcements arrived ?

Everything really.

He's just as fast as shown by him chasing Selene and Michael.

Even when not turning into Lycan, he was still pwning Lycans trying to kill Sonja. These were mindless powerful beasts. Vampires, who themselves are very strong were getting overwhelmed. Even with weapons. They were no physical match for the Lycans. Yet Lucian was, even when not in his form. In his form, he's even strong and would literally treat WS like a Ragdoll.

Combat skills, again he's superior, and likely vastly so. He has hundreds of years of fighting experience. Not just fighting regular old Joe, he's been fighting enhanced beings for hundreds of years.

He out fought and out thought Viktor, who as an elder is vastly more powerful than most vampires. Lucian beat him. The same guy who physically overpowered Raze... who himself was a special Lycan and a very powerful one. He's still no Lucian, who is the father of all modern day Lycan's. He a mutant of sorts and the most powerful. He was taking point blank gun fire and healing from his wounds. He did so numerous times.

I see no area WS is even superior in. What are they Est?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Everything really.

He's just as fast as shown by him chasing Selene and Michael.

Even when not turning into Lycan, he was still pwning Lycans trying to kill Sonja. These were mindless powerful beasts. Vampires, who themselves are very strong were getting overwhelmed. Even with weapons. They were no physical match for the Lycans. Yet Lucian was, even when not in his form. In his form, he's even strong and would literally treat WS like a Ragdoll.

Combat skills, again he's superior, and likely vastly so. He has hundreds of years of fighting experience. Not just fighting regular old Joe, he's been fighting enhanced beings for hundreds of years.

He out fought and out thought Viktor, who as an elder is vastly more powerful than most vampires. Lucian beat him. The same guy who physically overpowered Raze... who himself was a special Lycan and a very powerful one. He's still no Lucian, who is the father of all modern day Lycan's. He a mutant of sorts and the most powerful. He was taking point blank gun fire and healing from his wounds. He did so numerous times.

I see no area WS is even superior in. What are they Est? He was due to weaponry which WS could do as well. He would have been overhwkemed had they not listened to his primal scream.

WS wouldn't be ragdolled. GTFO. He'd break that mug with his arm. He's been in hiding and he won via his fellow Lycans overrunning the castle due to superior numbers.

Lucian had weakness exploitation and he couldn't move due to the sunlight. He didn't even kill Viktor. Viktor became more powerful over time and Lucian wasn't able to best him in underwood one. He was too powerful then.


WS has superi skill feats against survivor foes with superior weaponry than medieval weaponry against inferior foes than Cap, BW, and Falcon.

All those feats were done when Lucian head a sword.

He doesnt have one in this fight....ermm

With weapons he can win wihtout them I cant see that happening..

Okay? and Viktor had 2 swords, he still lost. He even tried to cheap shot Lucian from the side after he ran and hide. Didn't work. Lucian out fought him. We're talking about an elder here. Somebody who easily manhandled Raze with no weapon. The same Raze who himself with other Lycans had killed emelia, another Elder Vampire.

Even in the ROTL movie where he saves Sonja, the other Vampire also had swords, that didn't stop them from being killed. Lucian was killing them easily left and right. Further showing the skill and class he has.

Now, I'm still waiting for which areas WS is superior in

Wasnt there like a 1000 year difference between ROTL and UW 1 Viktor?

We all know that would make him much weaker....

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Okay? and Viktor had 2 swords, he still lost. He even tried to cheap shot Lucian from the side after he ran and hide. Didn't work. Lucian out fought him. We're talking about an elder here. Somebody who easily manhandled Raze with no weapon. The same Raze who himself with other Lycans had killed emelia, another Elder Vampire.

Even in the ROTL movie where he saves Sonja, the other Vampire also had swords, that didn't stop them from being killed. Lucian was killing them easily left and right. Further showing the skill and class he has.

Now, I'm still waiting for which areas WS is superior in Viktor was stronger in underworld one than he was in Rise. I already told you that you cretin. Off camera and she never demonstrated any formidability and she was overran by a sneak attack by Lycans.

Lucian was overwhelmed and taken.


Strength, skill, and better against modern day super skilled opponents with modern day weaponry. Lucian was defeated by henchmen with medieval weaponry despite Sonja's help.

Quanchi should change his name to "The Contrarian".

Originally posted by Estacado
Wasnt there like a 1000 year difference between ROTL and UW 1 Viktor?

We all know that would make him much weaker....

Okay? Wouldn't matter... Lucian would also have grown stronger over the hundreds of years himself

I'm still waiting for the areas WS is superior in

Isnt that only vampire power?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Okay? Wouldn't matter... Lucian would also have grown stronger over the hundreds of years himself

I'm still waiting for the areas WS is superior in Prove he grew in power. We see Kraven easily gun him down. Kraven was a coward yet he killed Lucian. Shame. Lucian's greatest ploy was faking his own death because he wasn't strong enough to take out Viktor. WS crushes him in hand to hand. Medieval weapons crush the Lycan.

Originally posted by Estacado
Isnt that only vampire power?

Huh? Why would that only apply to vampires? That makes zero logical sense and something you'll have to prove. I'm not in the business of proving a negative. What I can 100% say factually is... Both William and Marcus were brothers who were both born with the same Corvinus strain within them. The Corvinus strain is what allows them to be immune disease and longer lives. They both had the exact same strand. The only way Vampires would some how be the only ones who grow stronger with time... would be because one was bitten by a bat and one a werewolf. Then you'd further have to take the illogical view that a bat somehow someway gives one the ability to grow in power over time... while being bit by a wolf doesn't. Makes no sense. I you have any proof to back up that claim, please post it. If not, the more logical conclusion is that the Corvinus strain is what allows one to become more powerful as time passes... not because one was bitten by a bat. That is ludicrous

Originally posted by quanchi112
Prove he grew in power. We see Kraven easily gun him down. Kraven was a coward yet he killed Lucian. Shame. Lucian's greatest ploy was faking his own death because he wasn't strong enough to take out Viktor. WS crushes him in hand to hand. Medieval weapons crush the Lycan.

Talking to adults here kiddo. I already crushed said argument.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Huh? Why would that only apply to vampires? That makes zero logical sense and something you'll have to prove. I'm not in the business of proving a negative. What I can 100% say factually is... Both William and Marcus were brothers who were both born with the same Corvinus strain within them. The Corvinus strain is what allows them to be immune disease and longer lives. They both had the exact same strand. The only way Vampires would some how be the only ones who grow stronger with time... would be because one was bitten by a bat and one a werewolf. Then you'd further have to take the illogical view that a bat somehow someway gives one the ability to grow in power over time... while being bit by a wolf doesn't. Makes no sense. I you have any proof to back up that claim, please post it. If not, the more logical conclusion is that the Corvinus strain is what allows one to become more powerful as time passes... not because one was bitten by a bat. That is ludicrous So you can't prove it. Typical Kt virgin fashion.

Lucian has centuries more fighting experience. They are about equal strength wise except for the arm which will be a big help for buck.

The problem is Lucian has way more damage soak. It's a matter of can buck use that arm effectively and fast enough before Lucian just out lasts him

Originally posted by wallman77
Lucian has centuries more fighting experience. They are about equal strength wise except for the arm which will be a big help for buck.

The problem is Lucian has way more damage soak. It's a matter of can buck use that arm effectively and fast enough before Lucian just out lasts him Lucian isn't the better fighter. He doesn't have more impressive feats. He went down to medieval weaponry and then modern day weaponry via Kraven. WS whoops his ass. Lucian only beat a far weaker Viktor due to weakness exploitation. Weak.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Huh? Why would that only apply to vampires? That makes zero logical sense and something you'll have to prove. I'm not in the business of proving a negative. What I can 100% say factually is... Both William and Marcus were brothers who were both born with the same Corvinus strain within them. The Corvinus strain is what allows them to be immune disease and longer lives. They both had the exact same strand. The only way Vampires would some how be the only ones who grow stronger with time... would be because one was bitten by a bat and one a werewolf. Then you'd further have to take the illogical view that a bat somehow someway gives one the ability to grow in power over time... while being bit by a wolf doesn't. Makes no sense. I you have any proof to back up that claim, please post it. If not, the more logical conclusion is that the Corvinus strain is what allows one to become more powerful as time passes... not because one was bitten by a bat. That is ludicrous

In his defense and as an underworld freak, his assumption is reasonable simply due to the fact that the movies always only present the "stronger with time" thing for the vampires. It's mentioned fluidly and plenty. It has never been mentioned once for lycans. There has never been any discussion of a Lycan Elder.


You had Raze and Lucian, both survivors of the old days and they never once seemed like a match for an elder of the opposite faction or that much better than the rest of their kind except for fighting skills. It was never shown that either of these two grew stronger over time. His assumption is a valid one simply because the franchise has never cared to showing Lycans getting strong over time meanwhile it is always harping on it for vamps. Hell Lucian needed Michael simply because he wasn't strong enough. He was never treated as special outside of being extremely skilled in swordplay.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Talking to adults here kiddo. I already crushed said argument. The only thing you crushed is your own credibility a long time ago.

Quantity twisting facts to support his favorites. What else is new?

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Quantity twisting facts to support his favorites. What else is new? Who is twisting facts ?

Very close fight, Bucky has better strength with his bionic arm, and is way more skilled in unarmed combat. But Lucian has that crazy damage soak. About as close to a 50/50 split as you can get IMO.

Originally posted by wallman77
In his defense and as an underworld freak, his assumption is reasonable simply due to the fact that the movies always only present the "stronger with time" thing for the vampires. It's mentioned fluidly and plenty. It has never been mentioned once for lycans. There has never been any discussion of a Lycan Elder.


You had Raze and Lucian, both survivors of the old days and they never once seemed like a match for an elder of the opposite faction or that much better than the rest of their kind except for fighting skills. It was never shown that either of these two grew stronger over time. His assumption is a valid one simply because the franchise has never cared to showing Lycans getting strong over time meanwhile it is always harping on it for vamps. Hell Lucian needed Michael simply because he wasn't strong enough. He was never treated as special outside of being extremely skilled in swordplay.


I understand that fully and agree with most of what you say. Problem with that whole line of argument is, absence of proof isn't proof. Just like, if we don't see Cap ever benching 300 pounds, doesn't mean we go he can't. It was never mentioned he could. Doesn't work that way. They don't have to mention it directly when the logical line of progression leads to they must. If you can explain to me where my line of thinking is wrong, then please do so, saying it was never said isn't proof.

Further, I directly object to this notion that Lucian or Raze weren't equal to an Elder. This fails directly for a variety of reasons. Mainly if that is the premise you're trying to use to prove they do grow stronger over time and they don't; and then saying the proof is the fights, well that directly contradicts said premise. Lucian beat Viktor, decisively at that. So that makes sense a premise and conclusion null and void there. Even still we see Raze and company defeat and elder. Granted of screen, but it happened. Do we really believe Emelia can beat Raze? Same with Kraven, he should be super strong for his age and years of fighting. Yet do you believe for one second he'd last against Raze?

Which brings me to another point of yours, that it wasn't directly said or shown they were more powerful. This is blatantly false again. Lucian was very clearly made to be unique and the first of his kind, and in turn the most powerful. For Christ sake he was running down a car not in his Lycan form. He can still bite while in his "human" form. Nobody else can. This is specifically mentioned in the Underworld site. He was taking point blank rounds, even silver nitrate rounds and could expel them, other died if not in their Lycan form, and even then they could still die. Lucian survived in his "human" form. So I don't get this it wasn't shown stuff, that should prove he's obviously grown more powerful, unless you believe he could always just do that.

Raze, again, he was shown before being turned competing in h2h with old more powerful werewolves. That again made it clear to the audience he was powerful and unique. In his Lycan form he's even more badass. Now I'l admit Viktor handling him the way he did was impressive, and what you're partially having to rely on to support such an idea. But then I could simply remind you that Lucian, not even in most powerful form beat Viktor, who was already much older then him.

Now, I'd like somebody to explain where the logic is wrong here

Corvinus strand are in two people. This is the same strain that is made very clear is what leads to immortality, healing etc etc. Thus, by proxy the likely culprit for them being more powerful over time.

Then we're left with the only difference being one was bit by a wolf and the other a bat. Now, that alone makes them different. Bats come out at night not day time, wolves.. teeth get physically stronger etc etc. Those difference are exactly in line with species and the differences one would expect to see mutating the strain.

Another difference is not that Bats grow stronger with age and wolves don't. That makes no sense for it to be a difference. What makes more sense is that is what naturally happens with that strand. It does other similar things. Shit even Alexander likely past his best was still said to be able to kill Marcus and easily. It was implied. Again leading credence to the older you are the more powerful you are. I just can't see how that isn't the logical line of deduction

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I understand that fully and agree with most of what you say. Problem with that whole line of argument is, absence of proof isn't proof. Just like, if we don't see Cap ever benching 300 pounds, doesn't mean we go he can't. It was never mentioned he could. Doesn't work that way. They don't have to mention it directly when the logical line of progression leads to they must. If you can explain to me where my line of thinking is wrong, then please do so, saying it was never said isn't proof.

Further, I directly object to this notion that Lucian or Raze weren't equal to an Elder. This fails directly for a variety of reasons. Mainly if that is the premise you're trying to use to prove they do grow stronger over time and they don't; and then saying the proof is the fights, well that directly contradicts said premise. Lucian beat Viktor, decisively at that. So that makes sense a premise and conclusion null and void there. Even still we see Raze and company defeat and elder. Granted of screen, but it happened. Do we really believe Emelia can beat Raze? Same with Kraven, he should be super strong for his age and years of fighting. Yet do you believe for one second he'd last against Raze?

Which brings me to another point of yours, that it wasn't directly said or shown they were more powerful. This is blatantly false again. Lucian was very clearly made to be unique and the first of his kind, and in turn the most powerful. For Christ sake he was running down a car not in his Lycan form. He can still bite while in his "human" form. Nobody else can. This is specifically mentioned in the Underworld site. He was taking point blank rounds, even silver nitrate rounds and could expel them, other died if not in their Lycan form, and even then they could still die. Lucian survived in his "human" form. So I don't get this it wasn't shown stuff, that should prove he's obviously grown more powerful, unless you believe he could always just do that.

Raze, again, he was shown before being turned competing in h2h with old more powerful werewolves. That again made it clear to the audience he was powerful and unique. In his Lycan form he's even more badass. Now I'l admit Viktor handling him the way he did was impressive, and what you're partially having to rely on to support such an idea. But then I could simply remind you that Lucian, not even in most powerful form beat Viktor, who was already much older then him.

Now, I'd like somebody to explain where the logic is wrong here

Corvinus strand are in two people. This is the same strain that is made very clear is what leads to immortality, healing etc etc. Thus, by proxy the likely culprit for them being more powerful over time.

Then we're left with the only difference being one was bit by a wolf and the other a bat. Now, that alone makes them different. Bats come out at night not day time, wolves.. teeth get physically stronger etc etc. Those difference are exactly in line with species and the differences one would expect to see mutating the strain.

Another difference is not that Bats grow stronger with age and wolves don't. That makes no sense for it to be a difference. What makes more sense is that is what naturally happens with that strand. It does other similar things. Shit even Alexander likely past his best was still said to be able to kill Marcus and easily. It was implied. Again leading credence to the older you are the more powerful you are. I just can't see how that isn't the logical line of deduction

You're proving the point that vampires grow in strength with age, and Lycans don't. Lucian defeated Viktor hundreds of years prior to UW 1, in UW 1 he didn't even want to attempt to fight Viktor, he knew he would lose. Raize and co. only killed Amelia via ambush, with the ultraviolet anti-vamp rounds they recently obtained.

Also, Lucian could only dig out solid silver rounds, Kraven killed him with silver nitrate ammunition. Also, this isn't unique to Lucian, even in human form some no name Lycan in the subway shoot out was seen digging silver rounds out of his chest. This is further backed up by Kahn.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
You're proving the point that vampires grow in strength with age, and Lycans don't. Lucian defeated Viktor hundreds of years prior to UW 1, in UW 1 he didn't even want to attempt to fight Viktor, he knew he would lose. Raize and co. only killed Amelia via ambush, with the ultraviolet anti-vamp rounds they recently obtained.

Also, Lucian could only dig out solid silver rounds, Kraven killed him with silver nitrate ammunition. Also, this isn't unique to Lucian, even in human form some no name Lycan in the subway shoot out was seen digging silver rounds out of his chest. This is further backed up by Kahn.

Blatantly false on most accounts. Let's examine

We know Lycans are atronger in their Lycan form, this is made explicitly clear.

We know Viktor was already a warlord for many years before Lucian was born. Even before being turned. He was turned while near death. Then, he proceeds to fight a war with the Lycans for many many more years. Then, Lucian was born. Might I remind you, Lucian was born of a Werewolf as human. Viktor almost killed him because of it. That is the very defention of special and unique. He was shown easily killing stronger Werewolves then their Lycan brothers while in his less powerful form. Anyways, point is, Viktor was already hundreds of years older than Lucian, with counteless more years of fighting experience. For your premise to work, he should already be more powerful, and by a lot, only he wasn't was he?

Even in Lucian's weakest form, he was able to beat Viktor, and if I might say, relatively easy at that. Shit, Viktor even ran from him mid fight and tried to attack him from the side. Yet, he's most powerful? Is this some kind of ass backwards logic I'm fighting against here? Did you even watch the movie? He beat him, and decisively so. That contradicts that very theory since he should already be way more powerful, and it also contradicts the theory that Lucian isn't unique, special, and the most powerful.

Further, I'm not sure what you are talking about, he didn't expel the bullets at all, he died. Raze carried his body back to Lucian and the doctor. He even notes, he didn't have time to change, which is why he could fight the bullets. Even then we see Lycans in that form still get killed by those same bullets. So it still didn't mean you'd survive. Yet Lucian in his weaker form was still able to expel, what 5 bullets, get up in said form and still chase down a car? Yet somehow that doesn't slap you in the face of superior and more powerful than any of his kind, and obviously growing stronger with time? Sure does to me.

This is crazy logic happening here, it's kind of funny really.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Blatantly false on most accounts. Let's examine

We know Lycans are atronger in their Lycan form, this is made explicitly clear.

We know Viktor was already a warlord for many years before Lucian was born. Even before being turned. He was turned while near death. Then, he proceeds to fight a war with the Lycans for many many more years. Then, Lucian was born. Might I remind you, Lucian was born of a Werewolf as human. Viktor almost killed him because of it. That is the very defention of special and unique. He was shown easily killing stronger Werewolves then their Lycan brothers while in his less powerful form. Anyways, point is, Viktor was already hundreds of years older than Lucian, with counteless more years of fighting experience. For your premise to work, he should already be more powerful, and by a lot, only he wasn't was he?

Even in Lucian's weakest form, he was able to beat Viktor, and if I might say, relatively easy at that. Shit, Viktor even ran from him mid fight and tried to attack him from the side. Yet, he's most powerful? Is this some kind of ass backwards logic I'm fighting against here? Did you even watch the movie? He beat him, and decisively so. That contradicts that very theory since he should already be way more powerful, and it also contradicts the theory that Lucian isn't unique, special, and the most powerful.

I have no idea what you are driving at here.

Yes, Viktor is older, and yes, Lucian was his peer in the RotL years. But as Viktor aged, he got more powerful, and passed him up. Hence, in UW 1, Lucian needing Michael to defeat Viktor, and Lucian wanting nothing to do with fighting Viktor on his own, and Viktor basically killing Raize with one hand.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Further, I'm not sure what you are talking about, he didn't expel the bullets at all, he died. Raze carried his body back to Lucian and the doctor. He even notes, he didn't have time to change, which is why he could fight the bullets. Even then we see Lycans in that form still get killed by those same bullets. So it still didn't mean you'd survive. Yet Lucian in his weaker form was still able to expel, what 5 bullets, get up in said form and still chase down a car? Yet somehow that doesn't slap you in the face of superior and more powerful than any of his kind, and obviously growing stronger with time? Sure does to me.

This is crazy logic happening here, it's kind of funny really.

What? It shows that Lycan clearly digging the silver rounds out of his chest, Selene comes and kills him later.

I didn't say it was impossible to kill Lycan's with solid silver rounds, only that some can survive them, a trait not exclusive to Lucian.

I've never denied that Lucian is the most powerful Lycan, he obviously is, this was stated in the movie several times. I'm only saying that there's no evidence of Lycan's growing in strength with age, at least not to the same extent that Vamps do.

So Kt can't offer one piece of proof and wants to pretend the Lycans are exactly the same as the vampires. WS wins.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
I have no idea what you are driving at here.

Yes, Viktor is older, and yes, Lucian was his peer in the RotL years. But as Viktor aged, he got more powerful, and passed him up. Hence, in UW 1, Lucian needing Michael to defeat Viktor, and Lucian wanting nothing to do with fighting Viktor on his own, and Viktor basically killing Raize with one hand.



What? It shows that Lycan clearly digging the silver rounds out of his chest, Selene comes and kills him later.

I didn't say it was impossible to kill Lycan's with solid silver rounds, only that some can survive them, a trait not exclusive to Lucian.

I've never denied that Lucian is the most powerful Lycan, he obviously is, this was stated in the movie several times. I'm only saying that there's no evidence of Lycan's growing in strength with age, at least not to the same extent that Vamps do.

You know exactly what I'm trying to say, and I'm not sure why you are acting like you don't.

You and others are saying Vampire grow stronger as they get older but Lycans don't, as proof, you say look Elders are more powerful and can beat the best of the best Lycans. Only that is totally false, and contradicted on screen.

Viktor had already been a vampire for many many years before Lucian was even born. Thus, if that theory is true, Viktor would already be considerably more powerful. Only he wasn't was he? He in fact was his inferior. If you have much less combat experience and training, if you are in your weakest form, if Elders really can beat them and they only grow stronger with age; well then Viktor should've easily beat him, but instead what we see is the exact opposite. Lucian dominates him.

Shit, Viktor even tries to tuck tail and run mid-fight and try and cheapshot Lucian. If he really believe he was more powerful, and Elders only grew more powerful, why run? When then lose to a guy in his weakest form? That doesn't make logical sense at all, and contradicts said theory.

The only theories I see put forth are:

It was never said (that isn't proof as we know)
Elders are more powerful, see they win. (Again not at all true)

Further, you are acting like Lucian ran from Viktor, he did no such thing. He didn't seem the slightest bit concerned really. He goes oh, well that wasn't according to plan, but let me continue doing what I was doing and cocking my gun. You're acting like he was trying to run, he was doing no such thing. In fact, I don't even know why you are under this impression Lucian was afraid to take him on. He would have.

Then, you act like Lucian coming up with a plan to kill the Elders in secret wasn't exactly what people do when they are outgunned and outmanned. The vampires for hundreds and hundreds of years held the technological advantage, as well as the intellectual one. It's like asking why people do suicide bombings, when they can just come out and fight. What, do you want them to go okay, we'll just try and fight normal tactics when you're at a complete military disadvantage? It's like saying the Ninjas were scared of the Samurai because they used stealth and sneak attacks. Yet we see in direct confrontations they could very much hold their own and win as well. They weren't inferior, in many ways they were superior, but they were at a disadvantage in both numbers and resources. That's what you do. Lucian trying to kill all the elders without losing many lives is EXACTLY the thing to do. Yet, you call this proof of him being scared of Viktor? Last time they met, he put a knife down his throat, yeah I think he'll take his chances.

It's like me asking you why Viktor wasn't there when Kraven supposedly raided Lucian's castle. Where was he then? If he was much more powerful than Lucian, why not go try and finish the job with your superior numbers? Maybe because he knew better? It's odd when you see somebody with superior advantage in most ways not go for the kill, it's not weird when the opposing side tries dirty tactics to win.

Anyways, point is, non of what I've seen implies only they get stronger. In fact, the evidence, while not directly said, seems to point to the opposite imo. Granted, who knows for sure, I just think my theory makes more logical sense and is backed up by the movies

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You know exactly what I'm trying to say, and I'm not sure why you are acting like you don't.

You and others are saying Vampire grow stronger as they get older but Lycans don't, as proof, you say look Elders are more powerful and can beat the best of the best Lycans. Only that is totally false, and contradicted on screen.

Viktor had already been a vampire for many many years before Lucian was even born. Thus, if that theory is true, Viktor would already be considerably more powerful. Only he wasn't was he? He in fact was his inferior. If you have much less combat experience and training, if you are in your weakest form, if Elders really can beat them and they only grow stronger with age; well then Viktor should've easily beat him, but instead what we see is the exact opposite. Lucian dominates him.

Shit, Viktor even tries to tuck tail and run mid-fight and try and cheapshot Lucian. If he really believe he was more powerful, and Elders only grew more powerful, why run? When then lose to a guy in his weakest form? That doesn't make logical sense at all, and contradicts said theory.

The only theories I see put forth are:

It was never said (that isn't proof as we know)
Elders are more powerful, see they win. (Again not at all true)

Further, you are acting like Lucian ran from Viktor, he did no such thing. He didn't seem the slightest bit concerned really. He goes oh, well that wasn't according to plan, but let me continue doing what I was doing and cocking my gun. You're acting like he was trying to run, he was doing no such thing. In fact, I don't even know why you are under this impression Lucian was afraid to take him on. He would have.

Then, you act like Lucian coming up with a plan to kill the Elders in secret wasn't exactly what people do when they are outgunned and outmanned. The vampires for hundreds and hundreds of years held the technological advantage, as well as the intellectual one. It's like asking why people do suicide bombings, when they can just come out and fight. What, do you want them to go okay, we'll just try and fight normal tactics when you're at a complete military disadvantage? It's like saying the Ninjas were scared of the Samurai because they used stealth and sneak attacks. Yet we see in direct confrontations they could very much hold their own and win as well. They weren't inferior, in many ways they were superior, but they were at a disadvantage in both numbers and resources. That's what you do. Lucian trying to kill all the elders without losing many lives is EXACTLY the thing to do. Yet, you call this proof of him being scared of Viktor? Last time they met, he put a knife down his throat, yeah I think he'll take his chances.

It's like me asking you why Viktor wasn't there when Kraven supposedly raided Lucian's castle. Where was he then? If he was much more powerful than Lucian, why not go try and finish the job with your superior numbers? Maybe because he knew better? It's odd when you see somebody with superior advantage in most ways not go for the kill, it's not weird when the opposing side tries dirty tactics to win.

Anyways, point is, non of what I've seen implies only they get stronger. In fact, the evidence, while not directly said, seems to point to the opposite imo. Granted, who knows for sure, I just think my theory makes more logical sense and is backed up by the movies

Ok, I see where we are going off the deep end here.

You are assuming Viktor was born with the power of an elder, or whatever, he wasn't, he's a regular vamp. The only reason he was able to contend with Lucian in RotL was because, as you said, he's many hundreds of years older. The only Vampire who is more powerful than Lucian 'out of the womb' so to speak would be Markus.

In simple terms; Baseline Lucian > Baseline Viktor

Then, by the time we get to Underworld 1, where Viktor is his most powerful, it's many hundreds of years past RotL. And it's not until this film, where we see Viktor being truly more powerful than Lucian. Again, because of his advanced age.

I thought the whole point of Lucian becoming a hybrid was that he needed the power to beat Viktor.

They were all afraid of Viktor in the first film. He became a lot more powerful due to his increased age but I dare Kt to prove Lycans grow with power the same way. Back your claim you virgin.

The whole vamp thing is obvious hence many vampire movies portray elder ones stronger.

Never seen that done with werewolves.

Anyways I think ROTL Viktor was not powerful enough to take on a transformed lycan h2h.
By uw1 he certainly was.

Also Amelia is a bad example since she was younger then Viktor.


I doubt could take on 5-6 lycans without a sword they would probably overwhelm him.

Originally posted by Estacado
I thought the whole point of Lucian becoming a hybrid was that he needed the power to beat Viktor.

Yup, that's what Lucian flat out tells Kraven. Regardless of whatever happened in ROTL, Lucian clearly doesn't like his odds against Viktor by Underworld 1.

I'll take his opinion over anyone else's.

Kt is proven wrong once again and abandons the thread.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
Ok, I see where we are going off the deep end here.

You are assuming Viktor was born with the power of an elder, or whatever, he wasn't, he's a regular vamp. The only reason he was able to contend with Lucian in RotL was because, as you said, he's many hundreds of years older. The only Vampire who is more powerful than Lucian 'out of the womb' so to speak would be Markus.

In simple terms; Baseline Lucian > Baseline Viktor

Then, by the time we get to Underworld 1, where Viktor is his most powerful, it's many hundreds of years past RotL. And it's not until this film, where we see Viktor being truly more powerful than Lucian. Again, because of his advanced age.

He wasn't a baseline Viktor, he wasn't just born. He had already lived for hundreds of years prior to Lucian being born. He would've already been growing more powerful if that was the case. Not to mention the many more years of fighting experience and training. As well as vastly more knowledge, which as we know can be critical in fights in many ways. So by your theory, Viktor wouldn't be baseline Viktor he would've already been growing in power.

Further, the other reason he should already further had the advantage was because he was bit by Markus. Anytime you're bit by an elder, you have elder blood flowing through you, and by proxy more power. Yet Lucian, still decisively beat him.

Lastly, you keep acting like you KNOW Viktor was more powerful than him by the time of UW1. You have zero proof to back up that claim. You first said, well look, Lucian tried dirty tactics to kill him, thus he knew he was less powerful. I already debunked this theory with real life examples, as well as examples of Viktor not confronting Lucian directly. Point being, that isn't proof what so ever.

Next you tried to act like Lucian was trying to tuck tail and run when Viktor showed up. He did no such thing. He was like, what Kraven you thought you wouldn't have to get your hands dirty. And then continues doing what he was doing and gets ready for a fight. On how earth do you take that scene to mean Lucian was trying to tuck tail and run in beyond me.

The reality of all this is, the Corvinus strain is mostly likely what allows one to grow more powerful with age. That is the more logical explanation. Not that being bit by a bat allows that, but a Wolf, not so much. That much zero logical sense.

Plus you claim you can't see Lucian become more powerful. Huh? Do you think he could always just expel silver bullets. Why do you think almost every other Lycan was killed by bullets whether in Lycan form or human. Yet, he was able to take 5 shots, one to the head, and was okay. We see him run in ROTL, on a few occasions. Never once displaying the speed he showed later in UW1. I think it's rather obvious he grew more powerful to tell you the truth. I guess that is just the way I see it

So I'm still not clear on Lucian's h2h feats also not sure if Bucky's arm is enough to get past his damage/soak.

With that said Bucky does have the benefit of more fights to pull from so there's that.

Originally posted by Estacado
I thought the whole point of Lucian becoming a hybrid was that he needed the power to beat Viktor.

Huh? Lucian wasn't trying to become a hybrid. He was trying to find a descendent of Corvinus to make him a hybrid. Lucian didn't have the Corvinus strain in him, thus his body could take both. Only somebody with Corvinus blood could be both.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yup, that's what Lucian flat out tells Kraven. Regardless of whatever happened in ROTL, Lucian clearly doesn't like his odds against Viktor by Underworld 1.

I'll take his opinion over anyone else's.

Huh? That wasn't the whole point at all. He was doing that to end the war. Blending of the species so to speak. He wasn't trying to turn himself into a hybrid to beat Viktor. Not sure where that idea came from. Nor was he trying to use Michael to kill Viktor. Again, that is simply not true. Viktor was supposed to be dead in his sleep, that was Kraven's job, only Selene messed up that plan. Shit, Kraven didn't even know Lucian was looking for Michael or why, he even asks him, why are you interested in the human. To which Lucian punks him, and tells him it's no concern of his.

Originally posted by Estacado
The whole vamp thing is obvious hence many vampire movies portray elder ones stronger.

Never seen that done with werewolves.

Anyways I think ROTL Viktor was not powerful enough to take on a transformed lycan h2h.
By uw1 he certainly was.

Also Amelia is a bad example since she was younger then Viktor.


I doubt could take on 5-6 lycans without a sword they would probably overwhelm him.

Again, incorrect. Lucian didn't transform and beat him. He beat him in his weaker form. If only Vampires grew stronger with age, they Viktor (already hundreds of years older and with more fighting experience) would already be considerably more powerful if that theory is true. Only he got punked by a non transformed Lucian.

As I stated, Lucian was shown to grow more powerful. The speed is just one example. He was shown running in ROTL, and it wasn't nearly as fast. He was shown expelling multiple bullets while others died from the same thing. He was clearly very special and unique. He was the first of his kind and unique. The underworld site says he's also the only Lycan known to be able to grow fangs and bite people will still in human form. I don't know how people figure he didn't get stronger with time. That makes zero logical sense as I've shown. The Corvinus strain is what gives one their powers and immortality. It has zero to do with being bitten by a bat or a wolf. Those difference are expressed clearly and with reason... bats.. night... no sunlight... Wolf grow bigger stronger hair etc etc. All these match with the differences you'd expect from being bitten by those two creatures. What makes zero sense is, well if you're bitten by a bat you can grow stronger with time, if you're bitten by a wolf, you can't. WTF kind of silly as logic is that. It's the corvinus strain that is most likely responsible for growing in power, not being bitten by a bat.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Huh? Lucian wasn't trying to become a hybrid. He was trying to find a descendent of Corvinus to make him a hybrid. Lucian didn't have the Corvinus strain in him, thus his body could take both. Only somebody with Corvinus blood could be both.
Lulz.

Watch the movie again.

He injected Michael's blood to himself and was waiting for Raze to get him Amelia's blood.So that he could become a hybrid.

That was the whole point of the Lycan plan.

Originally posted by Estacado
Lulz.

Watch the movie again.

He injected Michael's blood to himself and was waiting for Raze to get him Amelia's blood.So that he could become a hybrid.

That was the whole point of the Lycan plan.

I understand what you're saying, and it's true, but it fails for 2 reasons:

1. It was used to imply Lucian needed that to beat Viktor, which isn't the case. He wasn't doing that to beat Viktor, Viktor would've been dead already. Their whole plan was to kill him in his sleep. Again, you were trying to use this to prove Lucian was afraid of Viktor and knew he couldn't win so he tried to do that. That is totally false, Viktor was supposed to already be dead in his sleep

2. It was explicitly said that they even fight at the cellular level. Only a pure blood Corvinus could take both. Lucian is not a pure blood.
A. When Selene brings the Doctor in front of him, and he explains their plan. Viktor rightfully notes that the only person with Corvinus blood in Marcus. The doctor then notes, that it can't work with him since he's already a vampire. They needed somebody with pure blood. So how would that work for Lucian? He also wasn't pure, he was already a Lycan. So how would it work for him, when the doctor said it wouldn't work for Marcus

I'll have to re-watch that scene again, but I do remember what you're saying, I'm just not sure how that would've even worked. Anyways, the main point is, he wasn't doing that cause he needed the extra power to beat Viktor as you were implying. Viktor was already going to be dead in his sleep.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Huh? That wasn't the whole point at all. He was doing that to end the war. Blending of the species so to speak. He wasn't trying to turn himself into a hybrid to beat Viktor. Not sure where that idea came from. Nor was he trying to use Michael to kill Viktor. Again, that is simply not true. Viktor was supposed to be dead in his sleep, that was Kraven's job, only Selene messed up that plan. Shit, Kraven didn't even know Lucian was looking for Michael or why, he even asks him, why are you interested in the human. To which Lucian punks him, and tells him it's no concern of his.

Nah, Kraven says their plan is in ruins now that viktor's awake, that he's growing stronger every minute and there's no stopping him.

And Lucian says: "that's precisely why I need Michael."

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, Kraven says their plan is in ruins now that viktor's awake, that he's growing stronger every minute and there's no stopping him.

And Lucian says: "that's precisely why I need Michael."

Of course, why wouldn't you want a powerful ally on your side. That doesn't mean Lucian was scared of Viktor, nor would've ran from a confrontation. In fact, in the same conversation, Lucian doesn't seem all the concerned and proceeds to continue to do his work and get ready. You're acting like he heard that and goes, shit I can't beat him, I better get the f out of here. He goes oh well, that wasn't according to plan, oh well.

Nah, I'm acting like Lucian flat out says he needs Michael to stop Viktor.

He didn't. He provide so already in his weakest form that he could take Viktor. Again, no he didn't need him for that, Viktor was already suppose to be dead. Wanting a powerful ally on your side, dozens of Death Dealers and an elder are raiding your liar doesn't equal him being scared nor does he mean he couldn't beat him alone.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, I'm acting like Lucian flat out says he needs Michael to stop Viktor. Kt has Down's syndrome and he will continue to repeat himself in rain man fashion so prepare yourself.

Kt really is the worst.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
He didn't. He provide so already in his weakest form that he could take Viktor. Again, no he didn't need him for that, Viktor was already suppose to be dead. Wanting a powerful ally on your side, dozens of Death Dealers and an elder are raiding your liar doesn't equal him being scared nor does he mean he couldn't beat him alone.

OK, I'm sticking with Lucian on this one.

I wonder when Kt will ever back a single point he ever made. Sad.

It's obvious Quan is right again

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Lucian curbs him. This is a non fight.

Originally posted by Raisen
It's obvious Quan is right again

So Lucian wins....great thread

Originally posted by Sin I AM
So Lucian wins....great thread Based on what ? The guy was soundly beaten by Kraven and medieval weaponry in Rise. WS wins.