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Over the south a China Sea

Trump needs to put these people on check, we know Obsma can't.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36328464

What would your opinion be of a Chinese spy plane operating off the eastern seaboard of the US?

The US isn't being aggressive on the eastern sea board.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Over the south a China Sea

Trump needs to put these people on check, we know Obsma can't.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36328464
Given his rhetoric about disengagement abroad, Trump would be more likely to cede the South China Sea to China than oppose them more forcibly.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
The US isn't being aggressive on the eastern sea board.

I'd say the US opening 5 military bases in the south China Sea is as aggressive as anything China are doing.

I can only imagine the US reaction if China made an agreement with the Bahamas or Haiti or the Dominican Republic to open military bases there.

Originally posted by jaden101
What would your opinion be of a Chinese spy plane operating off the eastern seaboard of the US?


Shoot it down. No warnings.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Shoot it down. No warnings.
I'm glad you're not in charge of a country lol.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Given his rhetoric about disengagement abroad, Trump would be more likely to cede the South China Sea to China than oppose them more forcibly.

You have not been listening to anything Trump has been saying and your statement above is just your opinion. The person you just described is Hilary and Obama's policy thus far. In case you didn't know, 50% of Trumps campaign is being tough on China.

Originally posted by jaden101
I'd say the US opening 5 military bases in the south China Sea is as aggressive as anything China are doing.

I can only imagine the US reaction if China made an agreement with the Bahamas or Haiti or the Dominican Republic to open military bases there.

Comparing apples to oranges will not work.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Comparing apples to oranges will not work.

True. No one holds a candle to US military aggression. That's the only interest it has in the region. It's own military and economic hegemony. It won't tolerate any behaviour from any other nation doing what it's done throughout the world if it challenges it's own strategic aims even when it's within those countries geographic spheres of influence. It doesn't matter that the US basically surrounds countries it perceives as challenging that dominance like it has done with Russia and is now doing with China. It still portrays those countries as the aggressors.

I'm on the fence here. Yep, I agree we'd be pissed off if the Chinese did this to us with their own spy plane.

On the other hand sometimes it seems like the entire world thinks America should police the entire friggin globe. Going strictly on that notion, don't we have more of a right to spy? That might sound silly, but again I'm talking about in the context of the world at times acting like it's up to us to take care of everything. I'm not suggesting China itself has this attitude.

Hell I remember a topic here that was about if America should police the world, and some people here said yes.

Originally posted by Surtur

On the other hand sometimes it seems like the entire world thinks America should police the entire friggin globe.

That seems more like an American notion than a "entire world" notion. Tbh, America's desire to police the world is really more frowned upon by people and countries around the world.

But on the other hand on this very website we had people saying this country should do just that. Which of course no we shouldn't because it's asinine to expect any one country to do that.

It might not be the entire world, but some countries seem to kind of act like that in a way. They just don't come out and outright say it.

Originally posted by Surtur
But on the other hand on this very website we had people saying this country should do just that. Which of course no we shouldn't because it's asinine to expect any one country to do that.

It might not be the entire world, but some countries seem to kind of act like that in a way. They just don't come out and outright say it.

I don't remember that thread. Was it Americans saying that or people from other parts of the world?

The U.S. has no right to police the world. Iraq is an excellent example of American interference gone wrong. ISIS is a much bigger threat than Saddam ever was to us. We had no business in that country.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't remember that thread. Was it Americans saying that or people from other parts of the world?

Multiple people? I don't know where everyone is from.

Originally posted by Surtur
Multiple people? I don't know where everyone is from.

So you can't feasibly take it as evidence that the whole world or even anyone outside the US wants the US to police the word, no?

I never said it was concrete, I just said it sometimes seems like people want us to police the world.

And thus if that were true..they'd have no real room to whine over spy planes.

Originally posted by jaden101
True. No one holds a candle to US military aggression. That's the only interest it has in the region. It's own military and economic hegemony. It won't tolerate any behaviour from any other nation doing what it's done throughout the world if it challenges it's own strategic aims even when it's within those countries geographic spheres of influence. It doesn't matter that the US basically surrounds countries it perceives as challenging that dominance like it has done with Russia and is now doing with China. It still portrays those countries as the aggressors.

No, but try and explain Obama's military aggression. Its interesting to see leftists do flips for china. Its becoming clearer why Trump is going to win, the China apologists are growing strong.

Originally posted by Surtur
I never said it was concrete, I just said it sometimes seems like people want us to police the world.

And thus if that were true..they'd have no real room to whine over spy planes.

Sure, I guess people that want the US to unconditionally police the world including spying on sovereign governments can't really complain about them doing this. Not sure there's anyone on KMC that holds that view, but I guess it's good we covered it.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
No, but try and explain Obama's military aggression. Its interesting to see leftists do flips for china. Its becoming clearer why Trump is going to win, the China apologists are growing strong.

You stated that Obama is doing nothing despite the fact that I already told you about the US moving forces to 5 different airbases in the south China Sea specifically for the purpose of intimidating China. The US has no geographical reason to be anywhere near that part of the world. Like I said, if China was to strike a similar deal with one of the island nations off the coast of the United States and stated it was doing it to "rebalance" strategic interests the US would flip out.

So no. This isn't about being an apologist for China. It's about pointing out blatant hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You have not been listening to anything Trump has been saying and your statement above is just your opinion. The person you just described is Hilary and Obama's policy thus far. In case you didn't know, 50% of Trumps campaign is being tough on China.
He talks about being "tough on China" with regards to trade, not with regards to a military standoff. Do you honestly think a guy who talks about making South Korea and Japan pay for US military support is going to make East Asia more secure against Chinese expansionism?

Originally posted by jaden101
I'd say the US opening 5 military bases in the south China Sea is as aggressive as anything China are doing.

.


Didn't the Phillipines ask for help recently due to the aggression in the the south china sea?

I don't know, I think building islands in the middle of the ocean in an attempt to control the region that isn't yours to begin with is worse then the US opening 5 bases.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He talks about being "tough on China" with regards to trade, not with regards to a military standoff. Do you honestly think a guy who talks about making South Korea and Japan pay for US military support is going to make East Asia more secure against Chinese expansionism?

Nonsense.

Originally posted by snowdragon
Didn't the Phillipines ask for help recently due to the aggression in the the south china sea?

I don't know, I think building islands in the middle of the ocean in an attempt to control the region that isn't yours to begin with is worse then the US opening 5 bases.

They did, but he missed that part or didn't understand it.

Originally posted by jaden101
You stated that Obama is doing nothing despite the fact that I already told you about the US moving forces to 5 different airbases in the south China Sea specifically for the purpose of intimidating China. The US has no geographical reason to be anywhere near that part of the world. Like I said, if China was to strike a similar deal with one of the island nations off the coast of the United States and stated it was doing it to "rebalance" strategic interests the US would flip out.

So no. This isn't about being an apologist for China. It's about pointing out blatant hypocrisy.

You seem rather bothered you came up with nothing and ended up being wrong, and you did not point out any hypocrisy.

Originally posted by snowdragon
Didn't the Phillipines ask for help recently due to the aggression in the the south china sea?

I don't know, I think building islands in the middle of the ocean in an attempt to control the region that isn't yours to begin with is worse then the US opening 5 bases.

So China building military bases in an attempt to control the waters next to its own country is worse than the US opening airbases in am attempt to control the waters next to someone else's country?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You seem rather bothered you came up with nothing and ended up being wrong, and you did not point out any hypocrisy.

You're being intentionally stupid again. I'll presume this is the point when you say "it was a joke" again.

You tried arguing that The US put BASES In the SOUTH China sea was US aggression when we were asked to by another Country to halt and monitor Chinese aggression who would love to take back Tawian.

The joke is on you, friend.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You tried arguing that The US put BASES In the SOUTH China sea was US aggression when we were asked to by another Country to halt and monitor Chinese aggression who would love to take back Tawian.

The joke is on you, friend.

The US stated themselves they were doing for their own strategic interests. Nice try.

The US protects its allies for its own stragetic nterests and theirs. Pretty sure Great Britian does the same.

Nice try, try again.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
The US protects its allies for its own stragetic nterests and theirs. Pretty sure Great Britian does the same.

Nice try, try again.
So you're admitting the US is using its military to control the waters around other countries

Aggression.


Want more proof. Here's a map of other bases or planned bases the US wants to surround China with

http://antiwar.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/empire-in-asia-e1377199333368.png

And here's ones Chinese bases around the US

https://www.joomshaper.com/forums?controller=attachment&task=displayFile&tmpl=component&id=2654

you really have no clue what you are saying.

I guess you take patrolling the seas as aggression.

But you missed China intercepting our spy planes.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
you really have no clue what you are saying.

I guess you take patrolling the seas as aggression.

But you missed China intercepting our spy planes.

Like I said. Your wilful stupidity knows no bounds.

Same with you. You can't even stick to The OP.

Originally posted by jaden101
So China building military bases in an attempt to control the waters next to its own country is worse than the US opening airbases in am attempt to control the waters next to someone else's country?

So all the South China Sea is actually China's? From practically the coastline of the phillipines down to indonesia?

Not to mention the chinese military forces that deliberatly run off fisherman from vietnam/phillipines nearby nations that use said waters to fish in that aren't anywhere near china.

It's not just the USA ramping up India is taking part and Vietnam have ramped up presences now as well.

China is the antagonist here and the USA is just doing it s Team Amerika, World Police thing when several nations there asked for help as well.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Same with you. You can't even stick to The OP.

That's exceptionally ironic coming from you.

Originally posted by snowdragon
So all the South China Sea is actually China's? From practically the coastline of the phillipines down to indonesia?

Not to mention the chinese military forces that deliberatly run off fisherman from vietnam/phillipines nearby nations that use said waters to fish in that aren't anywhere near china.

It's not just the USA ramping up India is taking part and Vietnam have ramped up presences now as well.

China is the antagonist here and the USA is just doing it s Team Amerika, World Police thing when several nations there asked for help as well.

Strawman argument.

That being said, China has more business operating in the south China Sea than the US does. The US has also already stated they're doing it to "rebalance" the strategic outlay in their favour. It has nothing to do with helping the poor little countries near China.

The US surrounds China will military bases yet China is the aggressor?

No

Originally posted by jaden101
That's exceptionally ironic coming from you.

People like you is why we left Britian. And then when you came to get us back. We beat you again and again.

Originally posted by jaden101
Strawman argument.

That being said, China has more business operating in the south China Sea than the US does. The US has also already stated they're doing it to "rebalance" the strategic outlay in their favour. It has nothing to do with helping the poor little countries near China.

The US surrounds China will military bases yet China is the aggressor?

No

Do you believe that China has the rights it has claimed throughout the China Sea, thats the primary concern.

If you believe it does then there we go.

If you believe it doesn't, how do you propose it be contained?

The US is reacting to the situation not the one creating the situation. Hence China would be the aggressors.

"International waters", the articles say.

Not "disputed". Does that mean China doesn't have a claim on those waters, but they're flexing their muscles against anyone who even travels near them?

Originally posted by snowdragon
Do you believe that China has the rights it has claimed throughout the China Sea, thats the primary concern.

If you believe it does then there we go.

If you believe it doesn't, how do you propose it be contained?

The US is reacting to the situation not the one creating the situation. Hence China would be the aggressors.



Malaysia, Taiwan, the Philippines and Vietnam also have military installations on the spratly islands yet Brunei's claim is better than anyone's. Are they also aggressors?

They all have one thing in common though. They all have more right to some control of the south China Sea than the US does.

Originally posted by jaden101
Malaysia, Taiwan, the Philippines and Vietnam also have military installations on the spratly islands yet Brunei's claim is better than anyone's. Are they also aggressors?

They all have one thing in common though. They all have more right to some control of the south China Sea than the US does.

That could very well be, my complaint is the island building China is doing then its claiming that as sovreign territory around said island that was man made in disputed waters.

Besides I don't see the USA saying we want your islands. Some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world are in this area and China is looking to create a maze of sovreign islands to control the shipping lanes let alone the resources under said water.

Also there is alot more then just spratly islands when talking about China stating it has control over ALL SOUTH CHINA sea.

Originally posted by jaden101
Malaysia, Taiwan, the Philippines and Vietnam also have military installations on the spratly islands yet Brunei's claim is better than anyone's. Are they also aggressors?

They all have one thing in common though. They all have more right to some control of the south China Sea than the US does.

Many asked the US to intervene, among other countries.

Originally posted by jaden101
Malaysia, Taiwan, the Philippines and Vietnam also have military installations on the spratly islands yet Brunei's claim is better than anyone's. Are they also aggressors?

They all have one thing in common though. They all have more right to some control of the south China Sea than the US does.
But none of these countries can stand up to China, even if they all stand together they can't really oppose China without US help.

The US of course has its own interests at play, and it is primarily interested in containing China, but in this case China is the aggressor and has a ridiculous position. Their claim line is based on Chinese exploration centuries ago, which, if that were the basis for countries claiming territorial waters, would give Spain and Portgual control of 90% of the world's oceans.

Spain and Portugal both said they're down