Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Both at their peaks. Fight takes place on Had Abaddon.

Plagus

Originally posted by JKBart
Plagus

Plaugies.

Tough to say. Peak Krayt was insanely powerful.

Yes, Darth Krayt was immensely powerful during his prime.

Either way

Holistically, Plagueis. He doesn't really have the hard feats to hold up, though.

Does he really not, though?

time to kill all

Krayt

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Does he really not, though?

Dark Transfer.

estahuh

Midichlorian manip tbh

Darth Plagueis simply has superior feats. He's also suggested to have effect Naboo's weather pattern with his mere presence and along with Sidious has shifted the very balance of the Force.

In lightsaber combat he has been stated to be => TPM Sidious by Luceno. TPM Sidious has moved to fast for TPM Maul to react.

He has plenty of excellent physical feats moving so fast he appeared as a lightning bolt ( this was before his prime ) and having pierced through the armor of a Maladian assasin.

Seriously, Krayt doesn't have shit on Plagu-chan.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Darth Plagueis simply has superior feats. He's also suggested to have effect Naboo's weather pattern with his mere presence and along with Sidious has shifted the very balance of the Force.

In lightsaber combat he has been stated to be => TPM Sidious by Luceno. TPM Sidious has moved to fast for TPM Maul to react.

He has plenty of excellent physical feats moving so fast he appeared as a lightning bolt ( this was before his prime ) and having pierced through the armor of a Maladian assasin.

Seriously, Krayt doesn't have shit on Plagu-chan.

That's not a convincing argument for Plagueis>Krayt. Krayt destroyed 4-5 Imperial Knights single-handedly. His force powers were impressive before he was resurrected, then they became insane. Krayt seems to have more combat related feats than Plagueis and they're pretty even in the esoteric department.

Krayt tbh

Krayt was a beast in Sabers, probably Top 10 all time, honestly.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Darth Plagueis simply has superior feats. He's also suggested to have effect Naboo's weather pattern with his mere presence and along with Sidious has shifted the very balance of the Force.

In lightsaber combat he has been stated to be => TPM Sidious by Luceno. TPM Sidious has moved to fast for TPM Maul to react.

He has plenty of excellent physical feats moving so fast he appeared as a lightning bolt ( this was before his prime ) and having pierced through the armor of a Maladian assasin.

Seriously, Krayt doesn't have shit on Plagu-chan.

The weather thing is just narrative hyperbole. Like how it starts raining when something sad happens. And lol rituals.

And Krayt blitzed an elite squad of Imperial Knights. These guys were chosen to guard the Emperor, so they were obviously cream of the crop material and he did it while dying from his armor. In his prime he was far stronger and wasn't hindered. Hell, he blitzed Wyyrlok as well. He also gave a good fight to Obi-Wan even as Hett. Since Obi-Wan is clearly a better swordsman than Plagueis, Krayt is way the **** better than him tru fax. I think he was whooping on CW Anakin for a bit too. Dodging his attacks, grabbing his hilt then chuck norrising him in the face.

The lightning thing isn't as impressive as you make it out to be and while I give you the strength feat it doesn't really matter because if it gets to a lightsaber duel Krayt is in range to use DT to win. He's fast and skilled enough to get a hand on Plagueis to end the fight.

The fact that you edited in the chan should be enough to dismiss your argument entirely tbh. Disgusting.

Given force users have actually had effects on weather patterns before I'm inclined to believe that the anomalies on Naboo occurred because of Plagu-chan. A ritual that shifted the very balance of the Force itself? Pretty impressive I'd say.

Just like Vitiate's Imperial Guardsmen or Sidious's red guards... Oh wait... You're claiming Obi Wan is a superior lightsaber combatant to TPM Sidious? Lel.

Given he could apparently undermine TPM Sidious in a duel according to Luceno we know he was at least that fast by the end of the novel. Proof that Krayt could lay a hand on Plagueis without getting it removed?

The fact that you believe Kenobi to be a superior lightsaber combatant to Sidious makes my walls clench.

The funny thing is, Krayt's had the exact same bullshit weather quote.

Originally posted by Nephthys

And Krayt blitzed an elite squad of Imperial Knights. These guys were chosen to guard the Emperor, so they were obviously cream of the crop material and he did it while dying from his armor.

The 4 knights were lead by the Emperor's cousin (meaning, a Fel with Skywalker/Solo DNA). They literally had the plan of, "Ok, the four of us will jump Krayt, kill him, and then we'll do a fighting retreat from all the other sith and meet up with Roan later...".


I.e. they expected to not only beat Krayt but then thought it would be difficult-but-possible to escape from the other ranking sith nearby.


Instead, they lasted all of two seconds.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
That's not a convincing argument for Plagueis>Krayt. Krayt destroyed 4-5 Imperial Knights single-handedly. His force powers were impressive before he was resurrected, then they became insane. Krayt seems to have more combat related feats than Plagueis and they're pretty even in the esoteric department.

Qu Rahn defeated 7 Dark Jedi. Are we saying he's superior to TPM Sidious now?

Originally posted by Selenial
The funny thing is, Krayt's had the exact same bullshit weather quote.

Quote?

Originally posted by Q99
The 4 knights were lead by the Emperor's cousin (meaning, a Fel with Skywalker/Solo DNA). They literally had the plan of, "Ok, the four of us will jump Krayt, kill him, and then we'll do a fighting retreat from all the other sith and meet up with Roan later...".


I.e. they expected to not only beat Krayt but then thought it would be difficult-but-possible to escape from the other ranking sith nearby.


Instead, they lasted all of two seconds.

Where does it give the amount of time they lasted?

They were blitzed in like 1-2 panels without being able to fight back.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Given force users have actually had effects on weather patterns before I'm inclined to believe that the anomalies on Naboo occurred because of Plagu-chan. A ritual that shifted the very balance of the Force itself? Pretty impressive I'd say.

Just like Vitiate's Imperial Guardsmen or Sidious's red guards... Oh wait... You're claiming Obi Wan is a superior lightsaber combatant to TPM Sidious? Lel.

Given he could apparently undermine TPM Sidious in a duel according to Luceno we know he was at least that fast by the end of the novel. Proof that Krayt could lay a hand on Plagueis without getting it removed?

The fact that you believe Kenobi to be a superior lightsaber combatant to Sidious makes my walls clench.

Unclench, it was a joke.

Not with their mere presence. Like I said, its just a narrative trick to reinforce mood. Don't take that stuff literally. And rituals aren't reflective of combat ability. Plagueis' ability to meditate with Sidious for a few months won't help him beat Krayt.

Imperial Knights are Force Sensitives, dummy. To even become one you have to be equivalent to a Jedi Master iir what Q99 said correctly. The guys guarding the freaking Emperor would obviously be among their best.

That isn't in a pure saber duel and twitter statements aren't exactly canon, lol. Krayts extremely fast and among the most talented duelists in history. As seen in countless duels, it isn't very difficult to land melee hits in a lightsaber duel. It won't be a problem.

Originally posted by Nephthys
They were blitzed in like 1-2 panels without being able to fight back.



Unclench, it was a joke.

Not with their mere presence. Like I said, its just a narrative trick to reinforce mood. Don't take that stuff literally. And rituals aren't reflective of combat ability. Plagueis' ability to meditate with Sidious for a few months won't help him beat Krayt.

Imperial Knights are Force Sensitives, dummy. To even become one you have to be equivalent to a Jedi Master iir what Q99 said correctly. The guys guarding the freaking Emperor would obviously be among their best.

That isn't in a pure saber duel and twitter statements aren't exactly canon, lol. Krayts extremely fast and among the most talented duelists in history. As seen in countless duels, it isn't very difficult to land melee hits in a lightsaber duel. It won't be a problem.

I may never unclench. V_V

Exactly which is why it's so impressive. Except unlike sad moments in romance novels force users actually have affected the weather ( I.E. Vitiate/Sidious ). I didn't say it was, just noting it as I believe it helps us to understand Plagu-chan's power.

I know that Imperial Knights are force sensitives friend. :P I'm simply saying just because they were chosen to guard the Emperor doesn't mean they're hot shit.

Authorial intent does though and considering the author stated his intent I don't see why that wouldn't be taken into account. Also you know that DT only kills or incapacitates force users that are far below his level correct?

Alright, I've been doing this for a few hours. Hopping off.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Also you know that DT only kills or incapacitates force users that are far below his level correct?

Huh?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Huh?

I believe ILS stated this a while back? Not completely sure though I remember a reputable source spouting this. If it's incorrect, my apologies.

Nah. Never stated or implied.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Nah. Never stated or implied.

Cool. It only makes sense though considering force defenses help to resist force attacks of which Dark Transfer is one and force power is a large factor in the strength of force defenses.

Lmao @ Neph playing the "narrative hyperbole" card.

Actually, Krayt was thought by Wyyrlok to have affected Korriban's weather pattern far more heavily while he was in stasis, tbh.



This has always been an odd one for me; lots of things have shifted the Force out of balance, including Krayt and his followers per sources.

What's actually impressive about the feat is the fact that Plagueis managed to pressure the Force into retaliation.



No, no, no. In the context of the question, "duel" referred to general combat; would Sidious win if he challenged Plagueis directly.

Luceno answered by saying Plagueis probably would have found a way to undermine his apprentice. Which is what makes him holistically stronger than Krayt in my opinion, but it's not a feat.



Plagueis found Maul's speed to be "astonishing". http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/1790400411.gif



Oh, absolutely. Plagueis is a physical monster.



...And this is not one of the reasons why.



Pssht. What does Plagueis have on fighting Abeloth?



Nah, this is total horseshit and he knows it.

I guess Syndicate is playing a game of "shit on the other character while embellishing his own". Others have done it better.

Originally posted by Syndicate
I believe ILS stated this a while back? Not completely sure though I remember a reputable source spouting this. If it's incorrect, my apologies. No, he didn't. I'm pretty sure I quoted you or someone else asking for a quote on the same assertion.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Holistically, Plagueis. He doesn't really have the hard feats to hold up, though.

This, but he isn't exactly incomparable in terms of feats.

Originally posted by SunRazer
This, but he isn't exactly incomparable in terms of feats.

Draining Abeloth, withstanding her telekinetic attacks, and contacting every Sith in the galaxy are pretty huge feats in comparison to some of Plagueis's stuff barring more esoteric stuff which isn't applicable in combat

Kaan also called every sith in the galaxy.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Actually, Krayt was thought by Wyyrlok to have affected Korriban's weather pattern far more heavily while he was in stasis, tbh.



This has always been an odd one for me; lots of things have shifted the Force out of balance, including Krayt and his followers per sources.

What's actually impressive about the feat is the fact that Plagueis managed to pressure the Force into retaliation.



No, no, no. In the context of the question, "duel" referred to general combat; would Sidious win if he challenged Plagueis directly.

Luceno answered by saying Plagueis probably would have found a way to undermine his apprentice. Which is what makes him holistically stronger than Krayt in my opinion, but it's not a feat.



Plagueis found Maul's speed to be "astonishing". http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/1790400411.gif



Oh, absolutely. Plagueis is a physical monster.



...And this is not one of the reasons why.



Pssht. What does Plagueis have on fighting Abeloth?



Nah, this is total horseshit and he knows it.

Fair enough.

Yeah. Luceno has an interesting perspective on the Force.

Ah, that makes sense tbh considering Plagueis didn't care for lightsaber combat.

:P





:P

Sorry about that. Don't know where I heard that though I remember believing it when I did. It does make sense though.

Originally posted by SunRazer
This, but he isn't exactly incomparable in terms of feats.

No. But he's not better in terms of feats either.

I know. That's why I agreed with what you said, lol. I was just pointing out that him not being able to hold up is a bit harsh.

Also, @Syndicate - Qu Rahn never defeated seven Dark Jedi. He ignited a lightsaber, cut one of them in half, and clashed blades once or twice with a few of them before Jerec stomped him.

Yeah, I was going to correct myself there but then, well, didn't. Deal with it.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I know. That's why I agreed with what you said, lol. I was just pointing out that him not being able to hold up is a bit harsh.

Also, @Syndicate - Qu Rahn never defeated seven Dark Jedi. He ignited a lightsaber, cut one of them in half, and clashed blades once or twice with a few of them before Jerec stomped him.

Damn. Evan fails me again.

Come to think of it, is Peak Krayt even definitively below pre Plagueis murder TPM Sidious?

Not "definitely", but I would say so, yeah. Sidious and Plagueis's feats and accolades are stronger, IMHO. They were powerful enough to cosmically threaten the Force.

The best argument against that would be to cite Krayt's kinda wonky and weird depiction in FotJ: Apocalypse.

As in, the appearance where he frightened Caedus and was on par with Luke?

Yeah, but we know that Vong Krayt is below Karness Muur. So I don't know how this makes sense.

Apocalypse came after, so recency, b****.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah, but we know that Vong Krayt is below Karness Muur. So I don't know how this makes sense.

We also know that his powers lessened over time as his sickness worsened.

That too, not to diminish from the great Karness Muur of course, who essentially raped the battlefield in that fight with his FLS.

Krayt draining Abeloth/Luke and tanking Abeloth's absurdly corrupt energies are both absolutely incredible feats, as is holding his ground against one of Abeloth's force waves and punching holes in her.

Damn it, I'm becoming Sas, aren't I?

You were me to begin with.

Well, now I'm directly conforming with your opinions regarding both Anakin and Krayt.

My only problem is, despite Anakin being Yoda level, why do I feel like Anakin would get rekt by Valkorion/Sids and Yoda wouldn't? Probably the matchup strengths and weaknesses, I suppose.

For sure. Anakin as Vader would probably fare better against someone like Revan too by that same token.

I don't mean to demean Anakin in such a horrific way, but I feel that he's sort of like Raskta in that regard.

I really have no problem with Anakin being ranked at or near that high. He has the force potential to back it up.

He also has the accolades and feats to back it up.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I don't mean to demean Anakin in such a horrific way, but I feel that he's sort of like Raskta in that regard.

Wouldn't go that far, kek.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
We also know that his powers lessened over time as his sickness worsened.

Out of curiosity, do you have a source?

And is it a given that reborn Krayt > Apocalypse Krayt?

I don't mean in that he's literally incompetent at defending from the force like Raskta, just that he's clearly more into augmenting his physical dominance.

Originally posted by The Ellimist

And is it a given that reborn Krayt > Apocalypse Krayt?

The reverse would make very little sense.

Or they're equals?

It still wouldn't make sense. Krayt's rebirth was quite a transcendence for him. Plus Dark Transfer, yo.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
My only problem is, despite Anakin being Yoda level, why do I feel like Anakin would get rekt by Valkorion/Sids and Yoda wouldn't?

Yoda's never been TK'd by Barris? Anakin isn't Yoda level, he's a bunch of levels going off of how he's performing.

Meh, TCW.

RotS Anakin >>>> TCW Anakin, especially given "my powers have doubled since the last time we met Count" now has a pretty different meaning.

Dem Outer Rim Sieges doe

Originally posted by The Ellimist
RotS Anakin >>>> TCW Anakin, especially given "my powers have doubled since the last time we met Count" now has a pretty different meaning.

You mean it's a different kind of complete horseshit? That quote was written by Lucas when he only had Anakin meet Dooku in AotC and then in RotS. It isn't remotely valid given the changes to that.

It's actually less complete horseshit, and beautifully falls in line with Anakin murderstomping Dooku.

Care to explain why?

Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean it's a different kind of complete horseshit? That quote was written by Lucas when he only had Anakin meet Dooku in AotC and then in RotS. It isn't remotely valid given the changes to that.

Yeah, but it's a fact of the mythology that Anakin said that to Dooku, and so it must be interpreted in light of new evidence; you can't even dismiss it out of hand like we sometimes have to do with narrations.

Regardless, it's pretty clear from RotS that Anakin >> Dooku, and indeed crushes him with greater ease than Yoda sort of outfights him.

Anakin's abilities "doubling" (which obviously isn't literal) probably don't correspond with going from being "easily" defeated by the Count to absolutely annihilating him. Him being able to give the Count a viable fight to being able to murderstomp him is much more reasonable with Anakin's statement.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah, but it's a fact of the mythology that Anakin said that to Dooku, and so it must be interpreted in light of new evidence; you can't even dismiss it out of hand like we sometimes have to do with narrations.

Regardless, it's pretty clear from RotS that Anakin >> Dooku, and indeed crushes him with greater ease than Yoda sort of outfights him.

Wait, it's more reliable because instead of coming from a narration it comes from arrogant, delusional, hotheaded, literally insane Anakin Skywalker? He's just shit-talking. In Legends the last time he met Dooku was a few days prior iirc. And in Canon it wasn't far off of RotS either. It's just Anakin being a braggart like always.

Naw, pretty sure everyones shown that its far from clear. Dooku was still able to fight Anakin and Kenobi at once, block their strikes simultaneously and dispose of Obi-Wan while easily handling Anakin. He's "clearly" not outmatched.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Anakin's abilities "doubling" (which obviously isn't literal) probably don't correspond with going from being "easily" defeated by the Count to absolutely annihilating him. Him being able to give the Count a viable fight to being able to murderstomp him is much more reasonable with Anakin's statement.

He doesn't though. If you use the RotS as evidence of him whooping Dooku then you have to accept that it was a one-time state he never replicated and typically performs far below that level. If you go by the movies Dooku was still able to handle him and Kenobi at once with aplomb.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He doesn't though. If you use the RotS as evidence of him whooping Dooku then you have to accept that it was a one-time state he never replicated and typically performs far below that level. If you go by the movies Dooku was still able to handle him and Kenobi at once with aplomb.

He doesn't what?

And yet going by the RotS Novel, Anakin is the most powerful jedi in the order, perhaps ever, and nobody's even close. And I wouldn't consider it a one time state as much as I'd consider it a (relatively, given his breakdown during his fight with Kenobi) permanent emotional change, i.e. him going all in with his rage. Even if we extrapolate to OCW we can see what he does when he draws on his rage: He goes from having a long, protracted, back and forth fight with Ventress to absolutely dominating her. Furthermore, later in RotS Anakin literally treats the guy Dooku warned Grevious to watch out for like a freaking youngling. It's pretty evident that RotS Skywalker is pretty distinctly different from the TCW Skywalker that had legitimate battles/struggles with the likes of Ventress and Barriss.

And yet at the same time, when Skywalker is alone goes all in with his rage, Dooku is quickly put down. And even when not, he rapidly drives Kenobi back and around Mustafar. Plus there's those good old statements from Gillard and Lucas that he was the most powerful jedi ever and could have beaten The Emperor. There's really too much on Anakin's side throughout RotS, whether it be accolades, authorial intent, or feats, to not consider him as one of the legit top tiers.