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Star Trek or Star Wars ? Films only.

Star Wars by far, if we ignore Q-like beings. I might elaborate later.

In terms of what?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Star Wars by far, if we ignore Q-like beings. I might elaborate later. Elaborate now. I have time.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
In terms of what? Technology and weapons used in each universe in the films only.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Technology and weapons used in each universe in the films only.

Ok...but in terms of WHAT.

Exploration? Fighting? What?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Ok...but in terms of WHAT.

Exploration? Fighting? What? All.

??

NuTrek tbh.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Star Trek or Star Wars ? Films only.




It depend on the domain... DOes ST ship have hyperdrive?

No, SW tech is better in almost every domain, except for one crittical point, energy generators, SW energy generator are made of magic but ST??? WAO ! It's just wao.

Star Wars has better military tech. That is all I can speak for

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Star Wars by far, if we ignore Q-like beings. I might elaborate later.

Q doesn't use technology tho.

SW wins.

Originally posted by Kurk
Star Wars has better military tech. That is all I can speak for So you just think in this one area only ?

Originally posted by Kurk
Star Wars has better military tech. That is all I can speak for What Star Wars militarized ship is better than the USS Vengeance ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
What Star Wars militarized ship is better than the USS Vengeance ?
The Malevolence
one ion cannon blast and it's over for the Vengeance

The Eclipse
Speaks for itself

Originally posted by Kurk
The Malevolence
one ion cannon blast and it's over for the Vengeance

The Eclipse
Speaks for itself Was that in a live action film ? There's lot of trek ships I'm ignoring as well by focusing on the films. I also disagree because the USS Vengeance is quite formidable.

The Malevolence was in TCW. Over 3 miles long, ridiculous firepower, yada yada yada.

Imperial Star Destroyer would baby slap the USS Vengeance.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Malevolence was in TCW. Over 3 miles long, ridiculous firepower, yada yada yada. So not in a film.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Imperial Star Destroyer would baby slap the USS Vengeance. You are joking, right ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Was that in a live action film ? There's lot of trek ships I'm ignoring as well by focusing on the films. I also disagree because the USS Vengeance is quite formidable.
My bad for not reading films only.

I still stand by the Malevolence

If you wanna be picky I'll throw in the Executor super star destroyer. There ya go

No. An ISD has shown in Episode 5 having multi Kiloton weaponry with its smallest turbolasers and scaling from them their biggest turbolasers would be double digit Megatons levels of firepower, full broadside would probably be approaching a Gigaton. Using databooks an Impstar is said being capable of BDZ'ing a planet which is basically turning a planet into another Mustafar.

Oh and the Invisible Hand. Can't forget that beast

Originally posted by Kurk
My bad for not reading films only.

I still stand by the Malevolence

If you wanna be picky I'll throw in the Executor super star destroyer. There ya go Do you really think the Executor was impressive iyo ?

Originally posted by The Merchant
No. An ISD has shown in Episode 5 having multi Kiloton weaponry with its smallest turbolasers and scaling from them their biggest turbolasers would be double digit Megatons levels of firepower, full broadside would probably be approaching a Gigaton. Using databooks an Impstar is said being capable of BDZ'ing a planet which is basically turning a planet into another Mustafar. I go by actual showings not random bs numbers.

The numbers come from the showings. An ISD vaporized asteroids that were 20 to 50 meters in diameter in Episode V. There's also how an ISD's acceleration can keep up with the Millennium Falcon which can outrun TIE fighters, in Episode IV we saw X wings go from Yavin IV to the Death Star in at most 8 minutes. A ship in realspace going at relativistic speeds would require energy that can destroy entire continents.

Originally posted by The Merchant
The numbers come from the showings. An ISD vaporized asteroids that were 20 to 50 meters in diameter in Episode V. There's also how an ISD's acceleration can keep up with the Millennium Falcon which can outrun TIE fighters, in Episode IV we saw X wings go from Yavin IV to the Death Star in at most 8 minutes. A ship in realspace going at relativistic speeds would require energy that can destroy entire continents. Nothing was portrayed as powerful at the time as the Death Star which could destroy entire planets. Thing is in Star Trek they can use red matter to take out super novas. Super novas >>>planets. Anything else ?

Red Matter was an exotic material that not every faction in NuTrek had and has to use some chain reaction method for it to work like dumping it in the core of a planet. I don't even remember any Supernovas in the first movie. In a war fare that's a pretty null thing to bring up. Death Star was calcd as a Large planet buster and it doesn't use a chain reaction method like Red Matter does, to make a battle station that can destroy large planets plus making it only 160 kilometers is much more impressive.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Red Matter was an exotic material that not every faction in NuTrek had and has to use some chain reaction method for it to work like dumping it in the core of a planet. I don't even remember any Supernovas in the first movie. In a war fare that's a pretty null thing to bring up. Death Star was calcd as a Large planet buster and it doesn't use a chain reaction method like Red Matter does, to make a battle station that can destroy large planets plus making it only 160 kilometers is much more impressive. They used it fine against the Narada.

The supernova was what wiped out the Romulans home world aka why Nero blamed Spock because he didn't reach the super nova in time before using the red matter. Red matter worked against the Narada and the super nova.

They had plenty of it as well. Far more impressive than just a planet which it took out as well.

Oh I forgot. Darth Maul is actually the most superior ship. He wins against Star Trek and Star Wars.

I don't think Star Wars would want to face Trek especially when Khan got involved. Palpatine would be shitting bricks.

The video speaks for itself
hNxhrPaaCA4

If arguing overall military tech, SW has it as I don't recall any of the ST movies having ground forces, air support and giant walkers, nor any real troopers. (Abit it's been awhile since I've watched any of the ST movies, but they seemed more about exploration into the unknown with some space battles)

Exploration goes to ST.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
If arguing overall military tech, SW has it as I don't recall any of the ST movies having ground forces, air support and giant walkers, nor any real troopers. (Abit it's been awhile since I've watched any of the ST movies, but they seemed more about exploration into the unknown with some space battles)

Exploration goes to ST. All tech. Trek has Klingons, etc. who kinda are warriors, Romulans, Borg, etc. this isn't just a federation only against the empire type thread. It's tech and weapons of all variety via the films.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

Originally posted by quanchi112
All tech. Trek has Klingons, etc. who kinda are warriors, Romulans, Borg, etc. this isn't just a federation only against the empire type thread. It's tech and weapons of all variety via the films.

Right I get that, but I'm still backing SW for overall military tech due to the afore mentioned things. I know there's different races and all in ST, but I don't recall any real ground forces or giant walkers that can blow giant sized holes in structures, nor any air craft support or anything logistical pertaining to maintaining and keeping ground.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html I have perused that biased site before. They are a tad bit ridiculous.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I have perused that biased site before. They are a tad bit ridiculous.

Why?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Why? They use anything to benefit Star Wars. They seem to ban dissenters from what I can gather.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They use anything to benefit Star Wars. They seem to ban dissenters from what I can gather.

Rumor mongering and vague ad hominems aside, what is actually flawed with Wong's analysis?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Rumor mongering and vague ad hominems aside, what is actually flawed with Wong's analysis? Those numbers seem ridiculous and don't match up with what I see on screen.

But they do rofl.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Those numbers seem ridiculous and don't match up with what I see on screen.

That's still pretty vague. Which of their numbers seem ridiculous?

Hyperdrive speeds are pretty difficult to refute - they really are that much faster than Federation warp drives. You'd expect as much, as the Star Trek series place so much emphasis on voyages and discoveries, whereas the entire galaxy has already been mapped by AotC, and ships regularly race the protagonists across the cosmos on the plot's convenience.

Turbolaser yields are shown "on screen" from the ESB's asteroid scenes, and are furthermore established in the Legends literature through base delta zero operations. Furthermore, they can be extrapolated through scaling power generation abilities from both the Death Star's superlaser and the numerous acceleration feats in the saga, where various vessels travel enormous distances in ludicrously small periods of time, feats that would naturally require massively powerful engines.

Shielding specs, etc. scale from that.

Edit: Nvrm.

Originally posted by The Merchant
But they do rofl. Nah.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
That's still pretty vague. Which of their numbers seem ridiculous?

Hyperdrive speeds are pretty difficult to refute - they really are that much faster than Federation warp drives. You'd expect as much, as the Star Trek series place so much emphasis on voyages and discoveries, whereas the entire galaxy has already been mapped by AotC, and ships regularly race the protagonists across the cosmos on the plot's convenience.

Turbolaser yields are shown "on screen" from the ESB's asteroid scenes, and are furthermore established in the Legends literature through base delta zero operations. Furthermore, they can be extrapolated through scaling power generation abilities from both the Death Star's superlaser and the numerous acceleration feats in the saga, where various vessels travel enormous distances in ludicrously small periods of time, feats that would naturally require massively powerful engines.

Shielding specs, etc. scale from that. Hyperdrive speeds are faster I agree. I mean I go by the eye test. I tend to go by what their weapons do on screen and how they are portrayed. It's like marvel handbooks pretty much random numbers given out no one really cares about. The storytellers do the same things in all areas of fiction. Take for instance a comic book feat to better get across my point. Supwrman lifts something iirc that weighed more than five times the weight of earth or something for five days weakened. Now granted that's a great feat but does that mean anything when he meets the next silly super villain. It's just another feat that doesn't carry over or matter. That's why I tend to look at portrayals more so than feats while most would disagree. The tie fighters on average struggle against the Millenium Falcon. Now I know it's due to the ace skills of Han but that thing is a pos and routinely has made the empire look like shit.

Now take for instance the Enterprise. It's pathetic when it comes to the Narada and the USS Vengeance but the plot makes excuses for why it survives not some skill of some pilot. Do you see where I'm coming from ?

Eh? The TIE fighters didn't struggle against the Falcon, they were doing damage to it while holding back during the Falcon's escape on the DS in ANH. ESB they were trying to capture the Falcon not destroy it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Hyperdrive speeds are faster I agree.

Far, far, faster. If you're trying to look at this in a versus debate perspective, the sheer disparity in movement ability makes an Empire vs. Federation war a forgone conclusion; the Federation would take years to even get a task force to any meaningful imperial planet, whereas any star destroyer can jump out of hyperspeed right above Earth basically on a whim. The Federation would be trying to move with bungies against a modern mechanized army, lol.



These calculations are based on on-screen footage, like the asteroid vaporizations. That they happen to involve fancier physics doesn't somehow invalidate them.



Except that you need to actually address the calculations instead of just dismissing them on face.



If you're basically suggesting that we should look at some vague approximation of the creators' intent rather than the suspension of disbelief method, then I would say that neither universe's designers have any clear idea of what firepower and shielding capabilities are, and just attune them to the convenience of the plot and special effects budget.

However, that still leaves us with hyperdrives and the Death Star.



I mean, if you want to play the lowballing game, two can play that. There's just so much content here, I don't know where to start - what's the lamest ramming scene you can think of?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Eh? The TIE fighters didn't struggle against the Falcon, they were doing damage to it while holding back during the Falcon's escape on the DS in ANH. ESB they were trying to capture the Falcon not destroy it. Han Solo is repairing it mid combat and still manages to evade those idiots. It's still working in the latest star wars too when even Rey says it's a pile of shit basically.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Han Solo is repairing it mid combat and still manages to evade those idiots. It's still working in the latest star wars too when even Rey says it's a pile of shit basically.

Han wasn't repairing it mid-combat in ANH, in ESB he was trying to get the hyperdrive to work which had been damaged during the attack, again the Empire was trying to capture them, it's harder to capture than to kill. The fact that it works later still is a testament on how good the ship is built, not that it's bad.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Far, far, faster. If you're trying to look at this in a versus debate perspective, the sheer disparity in movement ability makes an Empire vs. Federation war a forgone conclusion; the Federation would take years to even get a task force to any meaningful imperial planet, whereas any star destroyer can jump out of hyperspeed right above Earth basically on a whim. The Federation would be trying to move with bungies against a modern mechanized army, lol.



These calculations are based on on-screen footage, like the asteroid vaporizations. That they happen to involve fancier physics doesn't somehow invalidate them.



Except that you need to actually address the calculations instead of just dismissing them on face.



If you're basically suggesting that we should look at some vague approximation of the creators' intent rather than the suspension of disbelief method, then I would say that neither universe's designers have any clear idea of what firepower and shielding capabilities are, and just attune them to the convenience of the plot and special effects budget.

However, that still leaves us with hyperdrives and the Death Star.



I mean, if you want to play the lowballing game, two can play that. There's just so much content here, I don't know where to start - what's the lamest ramming scene you can think of? Far, far faster indeed but they don't operate at these speeds in combat. Warp speeds are faster than a tie fighter maneuvering around. Yes, they'd show up quickly but once engaged they aren't that quick in combat. Hell, the Executor is slow as molasses in combat and most of their star destroyers are just huge targets.


Trying to attribute real life physics to any fictional work is an exercise in futility. Most of the minds who create this work don't understand them and just do something because it looks awesome.

You have two Death Stars and a Starkiller base.

Are you referring to the USS Kelvin ? They still died horribly just to get some other people to safety. The Narada was a force to be reckoned with. It was taking on the federation single handedly. Can we say that about any empire based ship ?

Starkiller Base also proves that SW>>>ST. It absorbed an entire Star and turned it completely into energy, beat that.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Starkiller Base also proves that SW>>>ST. It absorbed an entire Star and turned it completely into energy, beat that.

I'd say the Death Star also does this. The fact that it can charge a big enough weapon to destroy a planet and still have enough energy to run its systems, is impressive.

Star Wars tech is superior right now. Trek is advancing faster though.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Starkiller Base also proves that SW>>>ST. It absorbed an entire Star and turned it completely into energy, beat that. Red matter defeated a super nova. That massive weapon is dependent on suns to fire as well.

Trek beat it in the first rebooted alternate timeline and in wrath of Khan that weapon was also more impressive.

Originally posted by playa1258
Star Wars tech is superior right now. Trek is advancing faster though. Based on ?

We see the USS vengeance is a massive upgrade to federation ships and we still see for the most part tie fighters 30 some years later.


They did upgrade the Death Star into the Starkiller but they don't really seem to progress that much otherwise.

Regardless

Military tech= SW

Exploration = ST

If just looking at the movies, although SW shouldn't be too far behind given that there's a ton of different alien species in the OT alone(cantina scene) and then the whole galactic senate in the PT.

In fact it should be superior given they can travel the galaxy with hardly any time effort on their part, but I'm just giving ST something here.

are you forgetting about the Borg ?

No and again I point out, as you noted to take everything into everything into account....which I am, there's no real ground forces in ST is there?

As I recall, I don't recall any giant war walkers, tanks, troopers, air/drop ships, cannons, planetary shield generators that can survive orbital bombardments, enough resources to establish military bases with defensive perimeters, and so on in ST. It's all been mostly space with them.

So as noted, SW has it in terms of military technology.

Exploration I'll give to ST, but SW shouldn't be that far behind with what we see as far as the variety of different alien species and their hyperdrive capability.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
No and again I point out, as you noted to take everything into everything into account....which I am, there's no real ground forces in ST is there?

As I recall, I don't recall any giant war walkers, tanks, troopers, air/drop ships, cannons, planetary shield generators that can survive orbital bombardments, enough resources to establish military bases with defensive perimeters, and so on in ST. It's all been mostly space with them.

So as noted, SW has it in terms of military technology. Borg.

They can adapt also to the weapons of the Star Wars aka their lasers, etc. They can also assimilate. Augments(genetically superior), Klingons(warrior like race), Borg, Vulcans, Romulans, etc.


The new film also has plenty of invasion type forces with thousands of ships that would decimate the slower and terrible star destroyers.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Borg.

They can adapt also to the weapons of the Star Wars aka their lasers, etc. They can also assimilate. Augments(genetically superior), Klingons(warrior like race), Borg, Vulcans, Romulans, etc.


The new film also has plenty of invasion type forces with thousands of ships that would decimate the slower and terrible star destroyers.



Great they can assimilate, fine for them.

But as you said, what is shown in the films only correct?

Ok....again I ask, did they show anything of what I just said? I don't care about space.

Tell me...what GROUND BASED FORCES they have.

They have Klingons....warrior race, ok fine.

Augments...again fine.

Do they have war walkers? Do they have dropships that can drop walkers and troops in mid-combat? Do they have assault ships that could provide air support? Do they have tanks? Do they have cannons? Do they have military bases which could fend off an enemy assault on ground? Do they have planet based shield generators which could protect them from enemy fire?

Originally posted by Zenwolf


Great they can assimilate, fine for them.

But as you said, what is shown in the films only correct?

Ok....again I ask, did they show anything of what I just said? Yes, and there were a lot of Borg shown in the film First Contact.

Star Wars definitely has more ground forces but I believe a superior Air Force would negate that. They are conquering not trying to minimize casualties. Does a tank have a chance against an F 15 ?

Once the Borg adapt to their weaponry and assimilate they are going to bolster their ranks.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, and there were a lot of Borg shown in the film First Contact.

Star Wars definitely has more ground forces but I believe a superior Air Force would negate that. They are conquering not trying to minimize casualties. Does a tank have a chance against an F 15 ?

Once the Borg adapt to their weaponry and assimilate they are going to bolster their ranks.

Saying yes....doesn't tell me anything.

What tanks do they have? What air ships? What cannons? Tell me something here.

NuTrek Red Matter > All SW.

Originally posted by AncientPower
NuTrek Red Matter > All SW.

Not sure if you're joking but Centerpoint Station y'know.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Saying yes....doesn't tell me anything.

What tanks do they have? What air ships? What cannons? Tell me something here. Thousands of the new Frontier ships. Smaller and very mobile ships. Just to name a few.

Originally posted by AncientPower
NuTrek Red Matter > All SW. Preach it, sista.

star wars >> star trek

Originally posted by Smoked12345
star wars >> star trek Based on ?

Lmao @ this abysmal attempt to lessen Trek's extreme inferiority to SW.

Executor solo's all of Starfleet. 19km long, over 5,000 turbolasers and ion cannons, 13 engine thrusters, and Darth Vader and Admiral Peitt at its command.

Star wars. Death star, lightsabers, holocrons, starkiller base, hyperdrive, prosthetics, droids, force fields, tractor beams, etc.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Lmao @ this abysmal attempt to lessen Trek's extreme inferiority to SW.

Executor solo's all of Starfleet. 19km long, over 5,000 turbolasers and ion cannons, 13 engine thrusters, and Darth Vader and Admiral Peitt at its command. Hahaha, did you see how slow it was ? What did it do on screen that leads you to believe it solos ? Typical fanboyism.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Star wars. Death star, lightsabers, holocrons, starkiller base, hyperdrive, prosthetics, droids, force fields, tractor beams, etc. So you ignore Trek's superior tech and just list the same old from Star Wars.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Hahaha, did you see how slow it was ? What did it do on screen that leads you to believe it solos ? Typical fanboyism.

Slow?

The imperial starfleet moved from behind Yavin IV to circumvent the Rebels in about a minute.

That's hardly an outlier; Rogue Squadron made a wide arc around Yavin to engage the Death Star within minutes; we're talking about them traveling hundreds of thousands of kilometers in like 150 seconds.

Even the Death Star was able to circumnavigate said gas giant in 30 minutes.

Now imagine how much energy these ships must be able to produce to power such accelerations - well, you don't need to imagine. You can do the math, and it works out nicely to the stats in Saxton's Incredible Cross Sections.

You see, when you look past the "gut feeling" technique and actually analyze and calculate the scenes and events in question, Star Wars comes out ahead by orders of magnitude. The math has been done; the Executor actually could crush the entire Alpha Quadrant without breaking much of a sweat. The disparity really is that massive.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Slow?

The imperial starfleet moved from behind Yavin IV to circumvent the Rebels in about a minute.

That's hardly an outlier; Rogue Squadron made a wide arc around Yavin to engage the Death Star within minutes; we're talking about them traveling hundreds of thousands of kilometers in like 150 seconds.

Even the Death Star was able to circumnavigate said gas giant in 30 minutes.

Now imagine how much energy these ships must be able to produce to power such accelerations - well, you don't need to imagine. You can do the math, and it works out nicely to the stats in Saxton's Incredible Cross Sections.

You see, when you look past the "gut feeling" technique and actually analyze and calculate the scenes and events in question, Star Wars comes out ahead by orders of magnitude. The math has been done; the Executor actually could crush the entire Alpha Quadrant without breaking much of a sweat. The disparity really is that massive.

Well from the start of the DS's arrival, it was 15 minutes out from firing range. Then it went to 7 minutes when the attack was going on.

So it took 7 minutes for Red/Gold Squadron to go from Yavin to the DS, that's ridiculously fast.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Slow?

The imperial starfleet moved from behind Yavin IV to circumvent the Rebels in about a minute.

That's hardly an outlier; Rogue Squadron made a wide arc around Yavin to engage the Death Star within minutes; we're talking about them traveling hundreds of thousands of kilometers in like 150 seconds.

Even the Death Star was able to circumnavigate said gas giant in 30 minutes.

Now imagine how much energy these ships must be able to produce to power such accelerations - well, you don't need to imagine. You can do the math, and it works out nicely to the stats in Saxton's Incredible Cross Sections.

You see, when you look past the "gut feeling" technique and actually analyze and calculate the scenes and events in question, Star Wars comes out ahead by orders of magnitude. The math has been done; the Executor actually could crush the entire Alpha Quadrant without breaking much of a sweat. The disparity really is that massive. Travel speed not combat speed. Hugely different.

Do you want me to pull up a few youtube videos to disabuse you of your notion that the Alpha Quadrant powers possess amazing combat speeds? I just need to show you a Borg Cube battle, or one from the Dominion Wars, lmao.

Regardless, it doesn't matter; as I explained, the combined Alpha Quadrant powers couldn't scratch the paint of the Executor, regardless of how slow you think it is. More meaningful than combat speed is FTL speed; the Executor could strike at any planet within hours of deciding to do so, and there's simply no way for the Alpha Quadrant powers to respond in any meaningful time-frame. They won't get to combat, let alone to show off their non-existent maneuverability.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Travel speed not combat speed. Hugely different.
If you're talking about two humanoid fighters, I'd agree. But you're talking about spaceships and galactic dog fights were the speed at which you travel and move is everything.
How does a ship even have combat speed?

Star Wars stomps, the Centerpoint Station solos.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Exploration goes to ST.

What?

Originally posted by Zenwolf

Exploration goes to ST.

Hyperdrive is literally thousands of times faster than warp, lol. Not to mention that the entire galaxy had already been mapped down to every star system by AotC.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Hyperdrive is literally thousands of times faster than warp, lol. Not to mention that the entire galaxy had already been mapped down to every star system by AotC.

I know, I was just wanting to give something to ST cause I felt bad.

You sound weak.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Do you want me to pull up a few youtube videos to disabuse you of your notion that the Alpha Quadrant powers possess amazing combat speeds? I just need to show you a Borg Cube battle, or one from the Dominion Wars, lmao.

Regardless, it doesn't matter; as I explained, the combined Alpha Quadrant powers couldn't scratch the paint of the Executor, regardless of how slow you think it is. More meaningful than combat speed is FTL speed; the Executor could strike at any planet within hours of deciding to do so, and there's simply no way for the Alpha Quadrant powers to respond in any meaningful time-frame. They won't get to combat, let alone to show off their non-existent maneuverability. Be my guest. The Millenium Falcon has outmaneuvered these tools before. On paper the emote sounds awesome but then we see them fail and fail and fail and fail against gutter trash.

Originally posted by MythLord
If you're talking about two humanoid fighters, I'd agree. But you're talking about spaceships and galactic dog fights were the speed at which you travel and move is everything.
How does a ship even have combat speed?

Star Wars stomps, the Centerpoint Station solos. The speed in which it can attack and outmaneuver those attacking it. They use the hyper speed to leave an engagement not to continue an assault at.

Trek prevails.

Not really, you've yet to give me any ground forces other than Klingon warriors.

You said and I quote



All of you have done is argue space ***, when SW has more than just space to it.

Taking into EVERYTHING tech and weapons wise from just the films, SW has this.

Maneuverability is cool, but kinda secondary when the Executor in question is pretty much immune to the combined conventional weaponry of the whole Federation.

Regardless:

vPzJSBHG4pI

dat maneuverability

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Not really, you've yet to give me any ground forces other than Klingon warriors.

You said and I quote



All of you have done is argue space ***, when SW has more than just space to it.

Taking into EVERYTHING tech and weapons wise from just the films, SW has this. Borg. They also adapt and assimilate making Star Wars forces their own.

We also see planets of ground forces in the new film as well as 5,000 + smaller maneuverable ships, etc.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Maneuverability is cool, but kinda secondary when the Executor in question is pretty much immune to the combined conventional weaponry of the whole Federation.

Regardless:

vPzJSBHG4pI

dat maneuverability Based off what is the executor immune ?

Borg cube seems about as maneuverable as th Death Star but that really isn't the trek ships now is it ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
The speed in which it can attack and outmaneuver those attacking it. They use the hyper speed to leave an engagement not to continue an assault at.
So how fast you move, basically? To a ship, that's only determined through it's travel speed. And TIE-fighters have damn-near-lightspeed in both combat and travel speed, as do the less advanced CIS TRI-fighters.

Originally posted by MythLord
So how fast you move, basically? To a ship, that's only determined through it's travel speed. And TIE-fighters have damn-near-lightspeed in both combat and travel speed, as do the less advanced CIS TRI-fighters. No, tie fighters do not. Han Solo barely could react in the new film when he came out of light speed. He doesn't zip around at light speed tagging ships. None of them do. We see the MFalcon handled the empires shit when he was fixing his run down ship in the middle of combat. For ****s sake that's pathetic.

What technology does ST have that is superior to SW? I'll wait...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Borg. They also adapt and assimilate making Star Wars forces their own.

We also see planets of ground forces in the new film as well as 5,000 + smaller maneuverable ships, etc.



Way to break your own rules.

You said just what is seen in the films, yet when has the Borg adapted and assimilated Star Wars tech?

Never.

From what I've looked up, I'm not seeing these supposed ground forces, so they must not be anything worthy to note.

Originally posted by Rebel95
What technology does ST have that is superior to SW? I'll wait... Red matter, transportation, Genesis, Borg adaptation, they actually progress unlike Star Wars. I mean come on this isn't hard.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Way to break your own rules.

You said just what is seen in the films, yet when has the Borg adapted and assimilated Star Wars tech?

Never.

From what I've looked up, I'm not seeing these supposed ground forces, so they must not be anything worthy to note. They still have the same abilities. You asked a question and I answered it. We have seen them adapt and assimilate. Don't cry because you're upset they'd walk the dog all over the shitty Stormtroopers.

The rebels have made the empire look downright pathetic. I've never seen a more pathetic Slavic force in my life. They consistently lose and look incompetent against shit rebels.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, tie fighters do not. Han Solo barely could react in the new film when he came out of light speed. He doesn't zip around at light speed tagging ships. None of them do. We see the MFalcon handled the empires shit when he was fixing his run down ship in the middle of combat. For ****s sake that's pathetic.

Actually, they do. Ever read the movie novelizations, lol? Also, in the new film, Han's an old man past his A-game, and even in the OT he wasn't flying around murking Imperials any chance he got, and he barely got away from them several times. And not really pathetic given how Trek barely has anything on that level.

Originally posted by MythLord
Actually, they do. Ever read the movie novelizations, lol? Also, in the new film, Han's an old man past his A-game, and even in the OT he wasn't flying around murking Imperials any chance he got, and he barely got away from them several times. And not really pathetic given how Trek barely has anything on that level. Films only quit fanboying it up. We see him fix his ship while they fend off the empire. He got away and made them look awful. He can fix his shitty ship and still evade them. He also made Vader look bad in new hope.

Oh please the enterprise alone would annihilate the MFalcon. It isn't close. We don't need the Narada or the Vengeance to take this pile of crap out.

Han in his prime wasn't taking ships out at light speed he was flying away and traveling speed. I'm right you're wrong. Fanboyism makes you say silly things.

The novelizations of the movies were based off the script, I assume they're perfectly valid to use.
Also, that just makes Han a skilled pilot, and they still failed to outrun the Empire on at least two occasions. Besides, post-prime Han can fly at lightspeed, so why can't prime Han while piloting the Millennium Falcon in the OT?

Originally posted by MythLord
The novelizations of the movies were based off the script, I assume they're perfectly valid to use.
Also, that just makes Han a skilled pilot, and they still failed to outrun the Empire on at least two occasions. Besides, post-prime Han can fly at lightspeed, so why can't prime Han while piloting the Millennium Falcon in the OT? That is like saying the movies are based off the Harry Potter books. They are different.

He can fly at light speed he can't attack at light speed hence my point. He barely even maneuvered right out of light speed. He sure can in his prime not that it would matter against Trek. He can't make Trek look foolish like the empire.

They weren't fending off the Empire when Han was fixing the ship in ESB. :/ They were just flying. It's also called Deflector shields, which you know...protect the ship.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
They weren't fending off the Empire when Han was fixing the ship in ESB. :/ They were just flying. It's also called Deflector shields, which you know...protect the ship. Yes, they were avoiding critical damage despite being outnumbered and without their expert pilot flying it. Embarrassing for the empire.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That is like saying the movies are based off the Harry Potter books. They are different.

He can fly at light speed he can't attack at light speed hence my point. He barely even maneuvered right out of light speed. He sure can in his prime not that it would matter against Trek. He can't make Trek look foolish like the empire.

He didn't make the Empire look foolish, though. Also, why can't he fly at such speeds during battle? Because his old grandpa self had to grunt a bit while navigating his ship at that speed? LOL.
Also, Trek isn't even coming close to a respectable fraction of light, unlike Star Wars.

Originally posted by MythLord
He didn't make the Empire look foolish, though. Also, why can't he fly at such speeds during battle? Because his old grandpa self had to grunt a bit while navigating his ship at that speed? LOL.
Also, Trek isn't even coming close to a respectable fraction of light, unlike Star Wars. When did he ever fly at light speed and tag opposing ships ? This isn't what you wish to happen it's what has happened and is likely to occur.

They can transport.

Tech is superior and they progress a lot faster than Star Wars.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Films only quit fanboying it up. We see him fix his ship while they fend off the empire. He got away and made them look awful. He can fix his shitty ship and still evade them. He also made Vader look bad in new hope.

Oh please the enterprise alone would annihilate the MFalcon. It isn't close. We don't need the Narada or the Vengeance to take this pile of crap out.

Han in his prime wasn't taking ships out at light speed he was flying away and traveling speed. I'm right you're wrong. Fanboyism makes you say silly things.

Wow.
Didn't know that the Millenium Falcon was all that Star Wars had.
And Starkiller Base would just solo the entirety of Star Trek with a single shot. So I wonder why you even attempt a discussion here. Laughable, pathetic, a typical Quanchi.

Originally posted by Nai
Wow.
Didn't know that the Millenium Falcon was all that Star Wars had.
And Starkiller Base would just solo the entirety of Star Trek with a single shot. So I wonder why you even attempt a discussion here. Laughable, pathetic, a typical Quanchi. So Star Trek is just fine blasts. Ignorance at its finest. You're the same pansy who would not back the empire against three Nu Trek films, coward.

Red matter takes this out quite easily.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That is like saying the movies are based off the Harry Potter books. They are different.

He can fly at light speed he can't attack at light speed hence my point. He barely even maneuvered right out of light speed. He sure can in his prime not that it would matter against Trek. He can't make Trek look foolish like the empire.

Then why does at the end of the credits does it say based of the novel by JK Rowling. The movies are based off the books.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Then why does at the end of the credits does it say based of the novel by JK Rowling. The movies are based off the books. They are based off them but that doesn't mean they are them. Ffs.

Nai has been run off.Originally posted by quanchi112
So Star Trek is just fine blasts. Ignorance at its finest. You're the same pansy who would not back the empire against three Nu Trek films, coward.

Red matter takes this out quite easily. Not fine blasts but five planets. That's all the starkiller base took out until it recharged.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So Star Trek is just fine blasts. Ignorance at its finest. You're the same pansy who would not back the empire against three Nu Trek films, coward.


Translation: "I have no argument. I will attempt some ad hominem and then follow up with a nonsense argument." Incoming:




How?

Red matter couldn't even be used to stop a supernova that they knew would happen in time. How are they going to stop a beam from Starkiller Base that is fired at them? They wouldn't even have the time to react on that. Planets gone, fleets gone, end of story.

Originally posted by Nai
Translation: "I have no argument. I will attempt some ad hominem and then follow up with a nonsense argument." Incoming:




How?

Red matter couldn't even be used to stop a supernova that they knew would happen in time. How are they going to stop a beam from Starkiller Base that is fired at them? They wouldn't even have the time to react on that. Planets gone, fleets gone, end of story. You claimed five blasts will destroy the Trek side. It appears as if you are completely ignorant as to the enormity of the Trek side.

Red matter did stop a super nova. It just didn't stop it in time before it destroyed the planet. Your ignorance is astounding. Planets, fleets, Borg, Romulans, Klingons, Earth, Vulcan, various ships numbering and yet you claim this one attack solos them ?


You're clueless.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You claimed five blasts will destroy the Trek side. It appears as if you are completely ignorant as to the enormity of the Trek side.


What "enormity"? Compared to a galaxy spanning empire Star Trek is a joke in terms of numbers. Especially when limited to the movies.



Yes. Despite the fact that they knew in advance that it would happen - unlike an attack by Starkiller Base.



Single volley from Starkiller Base destroyed five planets and everything in orbit (given that the entire Republic Fleet was wiped out by the attack). Star Trek is virtually clueless about stuff happening in the next star system. They would be picked apart by Starkiller Base, before even realizing what happened. And if you would move all of Movie Trek in one place, a volley from Starkiller Base would probably destroy it all.



Uh-hu. Last time I checked, the question was, whose tech was superior: What does Star Trek have to offer exactly to counter a planet-size superweapon that drains stars and has impenetrable shields?

Originally posted by Nai
What "enormity"? Compared to a galaxy spanning empire Star Trek is a joke in terms of numbers. Especially when limited to the movies.



Yes. Despite the fact that they knew in advance that it would happen - unlike an attack by Starkiller Base.



Single volley from Starkiller Base destroyed five planets and everything in orbit (given that the entire Republic Fleet was wiped out by the attack). Star Trek is virtually clueless about stuff happening in the next star system. They would be picked apart by Starkiller Base, before even realizing what happened. And if you would move all of Movie Trek in one place, a volley from Starkiller Base would probably destroy it all.



Uh-hu. Last time I checked, the question was, whose tech was superior: What does Star Trek have to offer exactly to counter a planet-size superweapon that drains stars and has impenetrable shields? Even when going by the movies they have far more than five targets. That's all the starkiller can take out. So your ignorance is pretty telling. I guess Star Trek to you is five helpless targets.

So it did stop it. Spock not reacting in time has nothing to do with whether the red matter can stop the red nova. It did. Spock wasn't there in time but the red matter can stop the super nova and definitely stop the starkiller base.

No, they aren't. The tech in Trek is light years ahead of the same old stuff from Star Wars. Lasers and more powerful lasers. Lol.


So now we move all the planets, space bases, ships, Borg cube, etc. into one place to starkiller can attack ?

Trek can use time travel, adapt to weapons, assimilate, transport weapons and people, and use red matter that is capable of taking out a supernova yet you brag about planets.


Five shots is what you initially claimed then said hey lets transport all out Trek into one location for the starkiller base.

Impenetrable. Lol. No limits fallacy. Starkiller got blown up pretty easily.

The Federation uses Genesis against Star Killer base.

Originally posted by playa1258
The Federation uses Genesis against Star Killer base. They don't even have to. Nai has no idea about anything Star Trek related.

Could the shields of Starkiller base stop Genesis?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Even when going by the movies they have far more than five targets. That's all the starkiller can take out. So your ignorance is pretty telling. I guess Star Trek to you is five helpless targets.

Educate yourself:

UfXdg_Ye6uQ

Two Death Stars, Starkiller Base.



Reaction time is a crucial element, if you want to use red matter to stop beams from Starkiller Base, that move so fast, that they cross half the Galaxy (Unknown Regions to Core Worlds) in minutes. They wouldn't even have time to prepare the stuff before Starkiller Base hits them from the other side of the Galaxy.



Educate yourself. Starkiller Base does, next to entire stars, harness Dark Matter from space surrounding it. The Death Star draws energy from hypermatter, apparently through a dimensional gate in the reactor.



Apparently we do. How else would a single ship with Red Matter protect the entirety of Star Trek from Starkiller Base?



Yeah. They can "use" time-travel, with the exception of every application in which this would make sense, with unknown results, since that changes the Future. Great. They can adapt to weapons? The Borg can - and not to all weapons, but just phasers, which are pretty boring compared to SW weaponary. And yeah. There is red matter, crammed into a little containment cylinder on a single ship, that a single starfighter from the SW universe could easily take out. Wow. That's sooooo impressive.



See above. And after witnessing the destructive power of Starkiller Base or a Death Star, Star Trek - with exception of the Borg - would just give up.



They are powered by Dark Matter. So there is a limit: About 27 percent of the energy that exists in the observeable universe.

And yes. It got blown up, because somebody breached those shields on lightspeed. I would love to know, who in the Star Trek universe could possible reproduce that feat, provided that, flying with lightspeed, the distance between the shielding and the planets surfaces (roughly 500 kilometers), would give you a time frame of 0.001 seconds for getting out of FTL speed and stop your vehicle, before it hits ground after passing through the shields. For comparison: That's like attempting to land a jetfighter on a 10 cm long landing strip. Good luck with that.

@playa1258


If they would launch it through the shields at FTL speed, probably not. But then: Who knows if they can and what would happen? And they wouldn't even get the chance to do so, since Starkiller Base is still a moveable object capable of travelling faster than any ST ship.

Don't think Starkller base can deflect Genesis. That is Treks best chance to take it out.

Originally posted by playa1258
Could the shields of Starkiller base stop Genesis? **** no.

Originally posted by Nai
Educate yourself:

UfXdg_Ye6uQ

Two Death Stars, Starkiller Base.



Reaction time is a crucial element, if you want to use red matter to stop beams from Starkiller Base, that move so fast, that they cross half the Galaxy (Unknown Regions to Core Worlds) in minutes. They wouldn't even have time to prepare the stuff before Starkiller Base hits them from the other side of the Galaxy.



Educate yourself. Starkiller Base does, next to entire stars, harness Dark Matter from space surrounding it. The Death Star draws energy from hypermatter, apparently through a dimensional gate in the reactor.



Apparently we do. How else would a single ship with Red Matter protect the entirety of Star Trek from Starkiller Base?



Yeah. They can "use" time-travel, with the exception of every application in which this would make sense, with unknown results, since that changes the Future. Great. They can adapt to weapons? The Borg can - and not to all weapons, but just phasers, which are pretty boring compared to SW weaponary. And yeah. There is red matter, crammed into a little containment cylinder on a single ship, that a single starfighter from the SW universe could easily take out. Wow. That's sooooo impressive.



See above. And after witnessing the destructive power of Starkiller Base or a Death Star, Star Trek - with exception of the Borg - would just give up.



They are powered by Dark Matter. So there is a limit: About 27 percent of the energy that exists in the observeable universe.

And yes. It got blown up, because somebody breached those shields on lightspeed. I would love to know, who in the Star Trek universe could possible reproduce that feat, provided that, flying with lightspeed, the distance between the shielding and the planets surfaces (roughly 500 kilometers), would give you a time frame of 0.001 seconds for getting out of FTL speed and stop your vehicle, before it hits ground after passing through the shields. For comparison: That's like attempting to land a jetfighter on a 10 cm long landing strip. Good luck with that.

@playa1258


If they would launch it through the shields at FTL speed, probably not. But then: Who knows if they can and what would happen? And they wouldn't even get the chance to do so, since Starkiller Base is still a moveable object capable of travelling faster than any ST ship. Genesis, Borg Cube, Narada, multiple enterprise ships, UsS Vengeance, 5,000 plus mini Beyond ships, Vger and plenty of red matter.

Red matter is going to take out Starkiller. That's the point. The base needs time to drain stars for five shots. Trek can also use shields or create black holes to stop the blasts with the red matter with the distance it has to travel.


Based on ? They are aware of the starkiller base just as the rebels became aware and quickly took it out before a second round of blasts could be fired.

Transport and red matter to starkiller base. A lot less has taken it out than a black hole.


Oh please all you have is gigantic lasers. Time travel. Assimilation. Adapting to frequencies and in Star Wars you have poor planets and the same old crap. Barren waste lands and shitty Stormtroopers. Klingons, Augments, Borg, Romulans, etc. Thousands of quick tiny ships so what's Star Wars going to do besides get worked ? Tie fighters and thirty some years later more tie fighters. We see the USS Vengeance three times faster than the Starfleet ships and twice the size within a few years. GTFO Wars. It can be handled by one man. Built solely for combat. That is called progression you Neanderthal. Yet we still see the ancient Millenium Falcon outmaneuver by some thirty year old Tie fighters.


Are you kidding ? Genesis, red matter, Borg, etc. their weapons create black holes and down super novas but Wars still thinks destroying planets is awesome. GTFO. Super novas>>>>>planets.

Black hole. Red matter. Done. We see a few guys get on board and set things in motion to destroy the weapon easily. Quit ignoring the film and living in your own fantasy world.


Nice nerd calculations that are not relevant.


Genesis, red matter.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Genesis, Borg Cube, Narada, multiple enterprise ships, UsS Vengeance, 5,000 plus mini Beyond ships, Vger and plenty of red matter.


"I have a list of stuff that I think is awesome, mom. I will post it on the internet!"





Apparently, you're still not getting the point.
Starkiller Base could go anywhere in the Galaxy within hours. It's mobile with usual Star Wars speeds, by far exceeding anything Star Trek has to offer. Then they can shoot from anywhere at anything in the entire freaking Galaxy and will hit their target within minutes.

In Star Trek terms: They could fly to anywhere in the Delta Quadrant (which is a what? Hundred year journey for Federation ships?) and hit Earth from there within minutes. They can just sit anywhere and run rampant with their "giant laser", because no Trek ship will ever manage to reach them in time to stop them.

Star Trek doesn't have the technology to monitor an entire Galaxy, much like they don't have the technology to travel across it as fast as the Star Wars counterparts. Who, after all, have a Galaxy spanning government (the Republic) for "a thousand generations" (25,000 years) already.



The Resistance has the technical means to monitor a Galaxy. Star Trek has not. They also have the means to get to Starkiller Base rather fast. Star Trek has not. Just again, as comparison. The beams of the Starkiller Base crossed roughly 25,000 lightyears from the Unknown Regions to the Galactic Core in minutes. This is at least a year worth of travel (or 25 years, depending on the source) with Federation warp tech and months even with transwarp technology (or hours, if you have a transwarp hub installed already). Still: Compared to minutes.



You do still not realize, that Starkiller Base can easily avoid any Star Trek ship, because it travels much faster. Then you need to get inside the shielding of Starkiller Base - which just work if you go through them above speed of light.



You still don't get the point.
Star Wars is so ridiculously far beyond Star Trek in terms of technology, that even if Star Trek evolves faster, it is still lightyears beyond Star Wars. Which is still a stupid point of view. In the matter of 30 years, Star Wars goes from building a moon-sized battle station (Note: Far beyond Star Trek capacities) to "turning an entire planet into a mobile weapon that drains stars".

You comment is on a level stating that, more than a century after the invention of cars, they pretty much look like they did before. You do realize that TIE-fighters now have a dedicated gunner (that wasn't there before) and guns that could fire in a 360 degree radius (that weren't there before)? Just asking.



You do realize, that draining the entire power of a star and adding the power of dark matter on top of that, to put this into focused energy beams is >>>> a supernova, right?



Yup. That guys could travel far faster than anything in the Star Trek universe, and managed to breach the shields in an impossible move to land. Then they deactivated said shield and still needed to blow half a building up from the inside befor another pilot with insane skills managed to fly into that building and destroy it from the inside. Sounds easy.



"I don't understand that, mom. I will, therefore, ignore it!" Quanchi-style debating at its finest.



Speed being multiple thousand times faster than anything in Star Trek and ability to erase targets half a Galaxy away in minutes.

Is that you Michael Wong?

Originally posted by playa1258
Is that you Michael Wong?

Nope. And one doesn't need to be Michael Wong to grasp obvious facts.

Believe it or not some of the Star Trek technology is better.

Unless you are one of those Star Wars fans that thinks one Tie Fighter can solo the Trek galaxy.

Yet were taking into account all tech seen...overall.

Even without the novelizations, we see X wings travel the distance of Yavin IV to the Death Star in a matter of minutes. We even see Yavin Prime a Gas giant that''s over hundreds of thousands of Kilometers in diameter get traversed in seconds. That was their cruising speed, when they locked their S foils and went into Attack Position they accelerated their speeds, making them even faster. Capital Ships are able to strike them down as seen in ROTJ. In Empire Strikes Back we even see Star Destroyers chase down the Millennium Falcon who's also running away from the TIE fighters which are comparable to X wings in speeds. The Avenger was even able to dodge in the nick a time another Star Destroyer while chasing down the MF, and they even went to another Asteroid Field while at sub Light. There's also how the MF crossed into another Star System while at Sub Light speeds, but that could be an outlier.

That's just sub light speeds, with Hyperdrive they can cross the entire Galaxy in hours at most. Starkiiler Base shot the Hosnian System while in the Unknown Regions according to the Visual Dictionary, and they were quite literally half a Galaxy away when they did that. But the Starkiller Base is overkill, the Death Star can solo.

Hm...I completely forgot the S foils bit, though wouldn't this mean that fighter combat moves ridiculously fast and the pilots have insane reactions and reflexes? Which I mean I guess the targeting computer's do most of the work as shown, but the pilots themselves would still need to have some ridiculous reflexes if they are going into combat faster than their travel speed, which is noted as being only minutes from a planet.

I attribute their combat speeds to them using computers and what-not like when they target enemy ships, lock on to them, and shoot them down.

Yeah, I edited and noted that the targeting computers would do most of that work. But I think they'd still have to have some pretty high reflex.

Hm...on a note, since this is the closest we'll get to a tech discussion.

But is there any reasoning as to why in space, fighters/freighters and the like move ridiculously fast. Yet in atmosphere they move extremely slow?

I get that they are space faring and all, but I can't really imagine with the tech level being as it is, that their engine power would be so horrendously low in atmospheric combat.

I could never really find any real answer, other than Sourcebooks which note at best 1k+ km/h.

The ICS seem to have a better gauge and since Leland confirmed the firepower to be accurate, I'd guess the speed would too...but I dunno.

While it's an assumption, believing that their computers do almost all of the work for them while in combat and flying and what-not is pretty reasonable. That or pilots just have crazy reflexes lol. I believe the former just to be clear.

I believe that the reason for the low speeds in an atmosphere is not because it'll damage the ship, rather it'd be a Superman situation in which going at the speeds they do in space would cause massive collateral damage. AFAIK nothing states that them exceeding their atmospheric flight would cause damage to the ships.

Hm...I suppose that makes sense, but still the atmosphere speeds are so dang low, which is kinda jarring when comparing everything else.

Nai I was more referring to the Sourcebooks on the atmospheric speeds, they list them as being so slow. Plus when leaving to go into space, sublight drives are activated so of course the Falcon would be moving faster as it's taking off to go into space.

Meaning that it's not activate during atmospheric traveling.

On-screen stuff>Sourcebooks in the end of things, I never really liked Sourcebooks in general since they're WAY too minimalist even for me who likes to use strictly movie canon when debating SW vs. other fictional universes.

Originally posted by Nai
Nope. And one doesn't need to be Michael Wong to grasp obvious facts. He's a biased fanboy. I see why you can relate.

Originally posted by Nai
"I have a list of stuff that I think is awesome, mom. I will post it on the internet!"





Apparently, you're still not getting the point.
Starkiller Base could go anywhere in the Galaxy within hours. It's mobile with usual Star Wars speeds, by far exceeding anything Star Trek has to offer. Then they can shoot from anywhere at anything in the entire freaking Galaxy and will hit their target within minutes.

In Star Trek terms: They could fly to anywhere in the Delta Quadrant (which is a what? Hundred year journey for Federation ships?) and hit Earth from there within minutes. They can just sit anywhere and run rampant with their "giant laser", because no Trek ship will ever manage to reach them in time to stop them.

Star Trek doesn't have the technology to monitor an entire Galaxy, much like they don't have the technology to travel across it as fast as the Star Wars counterparts. Who, after all, have a Galaxy spanning government (the Republic) for "a thousand generations" (25,000 years) already.



The Resistance has the technical means to monitor a Galaxy. Star Trek has not. They also have the means to get to Starkiller Base rather fast. Star Trek has not. Just again, as comparison. The beams of the Starkiller Base crossed roughly 25,000 lightyears from the Unknown Regions to the Galactic Core in minutes. This is at least a year worth of travel (or 25 years, depending on the source) with Federation warp tech and months even with transwarp technology (or hours, if you have a transwarp hub installed already). Still: Compared to minutes.



You do still not realize, that Starkiller Base can easily avoid any Star Trek ship, because it travels much faster. Then you need to get inside the shielding of Starkiller Base - which just work if you go through them above speed of light.



You still don't get the point.
Star Wars is so ridiculously far beyond Star Trek in terms of technology, that even if Star Trek evolves faster, it is still lightyears beyond Star Wars. Which is still a stupid point of view. In the matter of 30 years, Star Wars goes from building a moon-sized battle station (Note: Far beyond Star Trek capacities) to "turning an entire planet into a mobile weapon that drains stars".

You comment is on a level stating that, more than a century after the invention of cars, they pretty much look like they did before. You do realize that TIE-fighters now have a dedicated gunner (that wasn't there before) and guns that could fire in a 360 degree radius (that weren't there before)? Just asking.



You do realize, that draining the entire power of a star and adding the power of dark matter on top of that, to put this into focused energy beams is >>>> a supernova, right?



Yup. That guys could travel far faster than anything in the Star Trek universe, and managed to breach the shields in an impossible move to land. Then they deactivated said shield and still needed to blow half a building up from the inside befor another pilot with insane skills managed to fly into that building and destroy it from the inside. Sounds easy.



"I don't understand that, mom. I will, therefore, ignore it!" Quanchi-style debating at its finest.



Speed being multiple thousand times faster than anything in Star Trek and ability to erase targets half a Galaxy away in minutes.

So I list various badass Trek forces, ships, etc. and you ignore them. Concession accepted. Your initial fanboyish claim was five shots from the starkiller base would destroy all of Star Trek.

That's fine as Trek can transport anywhere and we see it takes time to drain stars from whatever location it's at.


Minutes is too long for Trek to prepare for based on the red matter. Why can't trek assimilate the Star Wars tech via the Borg ? That's what they do you just want to ignore it. It's sad. They can also transport and these forces are going to be located within the same fictional galaxy.

Yes, they can especially when they join forces. Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Borg, Frontier, etc.

When did it avoid any ships ? When did it do anything you describe in the film ? Multiple ships boarded it quite easily. You seem to ignore the film and make shit up due to fanboyism.

Trek utilized red matter to stop a super nova. Wars builds a bigger base with a badder laser. Whooppty doo. Same shitty ships thirty years later. Trek outdid the Federation ships by three times the speed and twice the size manned by one ship. That's called progress not new tie fighters.

Prove it is greater than a super nova.

Red matter creates black hole and there it goes. They could do it way easier. If you believe it can resist a black hole then prove it.

You ignore the films portrayal left and right and cite numbers not indicative of the battle.

Red matter takes out all the bigger space stations.

Nai has fled.

It took you 4 days to finally reply, he honestly thought you had fled.

Originally posted by Trocity
It took you 4 days to finally reply, he honestly thought you had fled. I responded and then some. Sorry my life isn't kmc. My points have decimated his fanboyism.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So I list various badass Trek forces, ships, etc. and you ignore them. Concession accepted. Your initial fanboyish claim was five shots from the starkiller base would destroy all of Star Trek.


If you want to put the entirety of Star Trek in one spot - which you implicitly did by stating that red matter would just counter Starkiller Base - then, yes, a single volley from Starkiller Base would destroy the entirety of Star Trek. Your list still doesn't make any sense outside your head, goof.



Yeah.
Except when there are shields between them and their destination. Which is kind of bad, provided planetary shielding for Starkiller Base. And I've also not seen them beaming people across the Galaxy. If they could do that, the entirety of Star Trek: Voyager and using a wormhole in Deep Space Nine would be pretty absurd. In fact: They wouldn't need spaceships any longer.



You do realize that they wouldn't see the shots coming, as they could only detect them seconds before impact? Just asking...



Because the Borg would never get their hands on Star Wars tech.
They can't enter Star Wars ships, because those would easily outrun Borg vessels. They can't get through SW shielding and would be vaporized before being capable of even attempting to adapt to anything. You may also consider the sheer hilarity of the thought to "adapt" to something that destroys single planets (Death Star) or all planets in a star system (Starkiller Base) with a single shot.



You do realize, that even all of them combined are a joke next to the Galactic Republic as of TPM or the Galactic Empire, right?



I see, you still fail to understand the fact that SW vessels are thousand times faster than anything the Star Trek universe has to offer. And when did they try to avoid ships? They had shields that couldn't have been breached under normal circumstances (and I explained to you why). And there was one ship which made it through while the shields were on. Apparently, you are ignoring the film.



Wars build a base that puts more power than a supernova has into a focused energy beam. And considering your regular civilian frighter (hint: Millenium Falcon) could outrun any ST ship, I wonder on what basis you try to argue against SW tech.



Already done, with a nice video. Also: They take the entire energy from a star. A supernova is an exploding star. They add energy generated from Dark Matter. Then they fire that stuff together. I wonder how you failed to grasp that 1 + x > 1.



If the Enterprise can get away from that "black hole", I'm rather certain that something that can move a million times faster than the Enterprise can also do that. And that was, by the way, the entirety of red matter Star Trek has used on one place. Which still wouldn't destroy the entirety of Starkiller Base, as that black hole was pretty small in comparison and vanished within minutes (apparently).



Actually, I'm the only one here that doesn't ignore the films...



Yeah. That "black hole" was roughly the size of the Narada in diameter, right? Just for reference, since you seem to have absolutely no idea what you are talking about:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/NaiFohl/Narada-DS-1.jpg

That's the Narada (roughly 10 kilometers length) compared to DS 1 (160 km diameter), and one can actually doubt that a "black hole" this size will cause the Death Star much trouble. It gets even more funny, if you compare that to the size of the second Death Star (900 km diameter):

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/NaiFohl/Narada-DS-2.jpg

And then you put that in one perspective with Starkiller Base (roughly 5,400 km diameter):

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/NaiFohl/SKBase-Narada.jpg

The very small red dot, barely visible with the naked eye, located right below the smaller Death Star is the Narada. And you think a "black hole" of that size will destroy Starkiller Base?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Sorry my life isn't kmc.

Post count: 135,000+
You have no life outside KMC.

Originally posted by Nai

Except when there are shields between them and their destination. Which is kind of bad, provided planetary shielding for Starkiller Base. And I've also not seen them beaming people across the Galaxy. If they could do that, the entirety of Star Trek: Voyager and using a wormhole in Deep Space Nine would be pretty absurd. In fact: They wouldn't need spaceships any longer.

.

http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/3/1/8/185318_v1.jpg

Cracked was already ahead there! Though I think the wording is wrong, still it's hilarious.

Originally posted by Nai


And considering your regular civilian frighter (hint: Millenium Falcon) could outrun any ST ship, I wonder on what basis you try to argue against SW tech..

Eh? The Falcon isn't a regular civilian freighter, it was a modified freighter, Han even notes this.

He's been using this site for 9 years and a few days. Let's just say 9 years.

135994 / 9 = 15 110 (with 0,4 shit).

15 100 / 365 = 41 posts a day

Typical shitpost like this one I'm just making takes me 20-50 seconds. Even in the highest level it's 2050 seconds = 34 minutes

So if somebody shitposts it's the equivalent of a long dump with your smartphone in hand, tbh.

Originally posted by Nai
If you want to put the entirety of Star Trek in one spot - which you implicitly did by stating that red matter would just counter Starkiller Base - then, yes, a single volley from Starkiller Base would destroy the entirety of Star Trek. Your list still doesn't make any sense outside your head, goof.



Yeah.
Except when there are shields between them and their destination. Which is kind of bad, provided planetary shielding for Starkiller Base. And I've also not seen them beaming people across the Galaxy. If they could do that, the entirety of Star Trek: Voyager and using a wormhole in Deep Space Nine would be pretty absurd. In fact: They wouldn't need spaceships any longer.



You do realize that they wouldn't see the shots coming, as they could only detect them seconds before impact? Just asking...



Because the Borg would never get their hands on Star Wars tech.
They can't enter Star Wars ships, because those would easily outrun Borg vessels. They can't get through SW shielding and would be vaporized before being capable of even attempting to adapt to anything. You may also consider the sheer hilarity of the thought to "adapt" to something that destroys single planets (Death Star) or all planets in a star system (Starkiller Base) with a single shot.



You do realize, that even all of them combined are a joke next to the Galactic Republic as of TPM or the Galactic Empire, right?



I see, you still fail to understand the fact that SW vessels are thousand times faster than anything the Star Trek universe has to offer. And when did they try to avoid ships? They had shields that couldn't have been breached under normal circumstances (and I explained to you why). And there was one ship which made it through while the shields were on. Apparently, you are ignoring the film.



Wars build a base that puts more power than a supernova has into a focused energy beam. And considering your regular civilian frighter (hint: Millenium Falcon) could outrun any ST ship, I wonder on what basis you try to argue against SW tech.



Already done, with a nice video. Also: They take the entire energy from a star. A supernova is an exploding star. They add energy generated from Dark Matter. Then they fire that stuff together. I wonder how you failed to grasp that 1 + x > 1.



If the Enterprise can get away from that "black hole", I'm rather certain that something that can move a million times faster than the Enterprise can also do that. And that was, by the way, the entirety of red matter Star Trek has used on one place. Which still wouldn't destroy the entirety of Starkiller Base, as that black hole was pretty small in comparison and vanished within minutes (apparently).



Actually, I'm the only one here that doesn't ignore the films...



Yeah. That "black hole" was roughly the size of the Narada in diameter, right? Just for reference, since you seem to have absolutely no idea what you are talking about:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/NaiFohl/Narada-DS-1.jpg

That's the Narada (roughly 10 kilometers length) compared to DS 1 (160 km diameter), and one can actually doubt that a "black hole" this size will cause the Death Star much trouble. It gets even more funny, if you compare that to the size of the second Death Star (900 km diameter):

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/NaiFohl/Narada-DS-2.jpg

And then you put that in one perspective with Starkiller Base (roughly 5,400 km diameter):

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/NaiFohl/SKBase-Narada.jpg

The very small red dot, barely visible with the naked eye, located right below the smaller Death Star is the Narada. And you think a "black hole" of that size will destroy Starkiller Base?



Post count: 135,000+
You have no life outside KMC. Who said anything about putting the entirety of Trek in one spot ? How does that make any sense ? You are trying to back off the insane claim five shots could solo Trek. You'd have to comb the streets for anyone who pretended to know anything about both to make such a silly claim. My list proves formidability, power, adaptability, etc. You're too blind to see it.

Khan beamed across the galaxy after he attacked Starfleet. Did you watch the film ? Shields aren't impenetrable and oh how I love that red matter. Quit trying to logically think through fiction it makes it boring.

Why wouldn't their tech work to see anything coming ? So trek is all advanced but anything coming at their planets like a giant energy beam they can't see coming why ? Another one of these just because you say so. Screw logic because Nai loves Star Wars.

Oh so despite Han Solo parading around the galaxy and Stormtroopers canonically wrecked by not very well organized rebels time and time again an entire fictional universe can't get their hands on any of it ? Dear lord your fanboyism knows no bounds. We see Finn lie about knowing anything to do with what he claimed and a few has beens and a deserter just wing it aboard this base. Watch the film and quit just making shit up. The Borg take losses but assimilate and adapt to the rest. The Star Wars empire would be now Borg as was the knowledge those characters possessed. Resistance is futile indeed.

No, I do not reclaimed that because it isn't true. They can't even decimate the rebels and are routinely humiliated but someone destroy superior forces just because you say so.

Travel speed not combat speed. They don't fly around attacking at light speed so it isn't relevant and Trek can transport across the galaxy characters and weapons. All shields can be breached eventually and just because they were breached in one manner doesn't mean they can't be breached in other manners without proof. Awful debating. It's like saying since villain cut off heroes head a stab to the heart wouldn't hurt because reasons.

Could flee the area not outdo the ships in combat. That's different. if Han wants to flee combat which he does that's fine the Trek ships will decimate those that are there.


What proof do you have it is more powerful than a supernova ? It destroys planets ? Show me some proof ? It has more shots not just one so you really haven't proven it. You made a baseless claim.

That doesn't a prove it has greater power than a supernova just because it takes the energy from one. Planetary destroying power is all. Red matter can take out a super nova.

The red matter wasn't detonated on the enterprise this will be detonated on the target. Not worried about the pitiful tie fighters that can evade the black hole.

Red matter destroyed a super nova so please stop ignoring the film. Bigger than the Narada.

Completely untrue you ignore the films and make things up all the time.

A super nova. You posting Death Star and starkiller sized things doesn't make the super nova destruction go away in an attempt to ignore the film and downplay the superior tech at play here.

I unlike you post and don't flee from a challenge which seems to be your thing. Sad.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Eh? The Falcon isn't a regular civilian freighter, it was a modified freighter, Han even notes this. Correct Nai on his Star Wars ignorance,

Originally posted by quanchi112
Stormtroopers canonically wrecked by not very well organized rebels time and time again an entire fictional universe can't get their hands on any of it ?

Whaaat? The Rebels were organized and it's noted by Cassio Tagge that they are well equipped and dangerous.



If the Rebels weren't organized they wouldn't be so equipped and be a noted threat by one of the Empire's top military generals.

If the Rebels weren't organized, they wouldn't have the supplies or manpower to construct two bases and a fleet, much less get support and resources. Yet they clearly did.

Also the Rebellion was on the backfoot throughout the movies alone, the attack on the 2nd Death Star was noted as the Rebellion's most desperate hour.