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http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/0/77/80131-70629-ikaris.jpg

vs.


http://hqmaniacs.uol.com.br/img/materia/shazam_img02_mat_10052013.jpg

Pre-flashpoint Billy here.


I thought this would be a nice scrap.

Captain Marvel stomps.

Originally posted by carver9
Captain Marvel stomps.

Ikaris is pretty awesome but i dont believe he can put CM down. Good fight though.

Stomps? Are you two for real?

Posters here believe all fights are won by stomp.

Yes, why not?

Case in point

This isn't a stomp. It would actually be a great fight to see.

Billy's stronger and faster, yet Ikaris has way more options. Whether any of those are enough to net him the win is another matter, however.

I might tentatively call this a split.

I already know that there a vast strength difference between the two, other powers however.............

Originally posted by Martian_mind
This isn't a stomp. It would actually be a great fight to see.

Billy's stronger and faster, yet Ikaris has way more options. Whether any of those are enough to net him the win is another matter, however.

I might tentatively call this a split.

I cant see this being a split. OR a stomp.

More of a good fight that is still won decisively by one character.
A splomp, if you will.

Originally posted by riv6672
I cant see this being a split. OR a stomp.

More of a good fight that is still won decisively by one character.
A splomp, if you will.

Yeah, that's pretty much the reason I said 'tentative'.

What are Billy's feats for TP resistance?

He's been controlled, like the majority of characters in comics.
Heck, one of his funnest enemies is named Mr. Mind!

Shouldnt really be an issue here, as Ikaris' powers are listed as low level psychic abilities, enabling him to scan the superficial thoughts of any mind less adept than his own, mentally create illusions to disguise himself, psionically manipulate atoms and molecules so as to transform an object's shape, and rearrange molecules to form shields.
He's not going to mind control CM.

He has shown that he is capable of feats beyond that description, however, one which is explicitly mind control.

http://imgur.com/WtKYuMF
http://imgur.com/YQMqxmG

He's erased someone's memory as well.

http://imgur.com/J8Z0kEy

Now, I have no idea what Cap's feats of TP resistance are, so I'm simply wondering if he has any to suggest he could resist either of those.

I already said he's been mind controlled. (Why) do you need me to keep saying it?

Quite famously in Kingdom Come, which i find it hard to believe you havent read or at least have familiarity with. If you (actually) havent read it you should.

As for those feats you posted, both are cool, but neither was in a combat situation, as these forum fights are. They also start at a fair distance, and willing to wager on the stronger faster character not just standing around.

I also dont see the scans as putting Ikaris on a TP level with Mr. Mind, The Gray Man, Johnny Sorrow/Despero and The 7 Deadly sins, all of which have controlled CM (and others simultaneously).

I'm not asking you for a list of people who've controlled him. I know he's been controlled. I'm asking if he's ever actually resisted an attempt, which is a very different thing. That so many people have succeeded actually suggests that this is a viable tactic for Ikaris. If Cap has never actively resisted mind control, then this becomes Ikaris' fight to lose. Yes, those examples are not a combat setting, but neither seemed to cause him much strain. It's entirely possible that he could pull it off, especially if Cap is as vulnerable to mind control as any average human.

He's resisted all those mind control instances i listed. He wound up getting almost KOd by J'onn J'onzz in the case of The Gray Man, and sacrificed himself in KC. And again, i'm not putting Ikaris on the level of those characters based on those scans.
This is going to come down to a fight (imo), and CM will win it after a good go-round.

http://comicsalliance.com/files/2015/02/AC022.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/4e/92/c3/4e92c3a2afa8acf561654dc2ad3ab3ee.jpg

Was the resistance successful? I've read most of those showings, and IIRC it was an outside source that finally allowed him to shake it off. As it currently stands, I've seen no feats to suggest Cap has enough TP resistance to repel even a minor assault on his own, which means Ikaris should be fully capable of controlling him.

Agee to disagree, however. If you think Cap wins, that's cool. I even said I believe it would be a split. Should someone have proof that Cap is capable of repelling mental attacks on his own, however, that would obviously change.

Thats why i mentioned the instances.

Again, this fight isnt going to be decided by mind control. CM has faced, been controlled by, and resisted better.
Below is a better scan of the Gray Man feat, not so much for you at this point, but because i spent time searching for it so i want to use it.

http://i.imgur.com/RCl6CC1.jpg

Kingdom Come aint canon riv

Neither is Marvel Vs DC but its been cited here pretty recently.

If you want, you can ignore the non canon Mr. Mind feat. I'll understand.

With the Grey man feat, J'onn was explicitly attacking Grey man's control with his own TP, so that's a no-show for Billy as well.

Sorry man, but so far we're still at the point where Billy has no real showings of TP resistance.

Originally posted by riv6672
Neither is Marvel Vs DC but its been cited here pretty recently.

If you want, you can ignore the non canon Mr. Mind feat. I'll understand.

Citing non canon shit doesn't make it valid though boo. Whoever did that was probably a troll. Don't stoop to their level

^^^I'd have to stoop pretty low to reach the level of the two guys i'm thinking of, as mine was an honest mistake, while they did it quite purposefully

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Sorry man, but so far we're still at the point where Billy has no real showings of TP resistance.
In your opinion.

In mine we're at the point where the feTs you posted arent combat feats, and CM isnt going to just stand there.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
With the Grey man feat, J'onn was explicitly attacking Grey man's control with his own TP, so that's a no-show for Billy as well.

Sorry man, but so far we're still at the point where Billy has no real showings of TP resistance.

He was explicitly resisting the Gray Man:

http://i.imgur.com/HMzm1Lx.jpg

Wisdom of Solomon sees through illusions:
http://i.imgur.com/HSrhbMC.jpg

Originally posted by riv6672
Neither is Marvel Vs DC but its been cited here pretty recently.

If you want, you can ignore the non canon Mr. Mind feat. I'll understand.

Technically Marvel vs DC is canon to Marvel but not to DC. That's that particular context for that sometimes being brought up. But even then you have a bit of a too and throw about that. Whereas Kingdom Come is separate.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
This isn't a stomp. It would actually be a great fight to see.

Billy's stronger and faster, yet Ikaris has way more options. Whether any of those are enough to net him the win is another matter, however.

I might tentatively call this a split.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He was explicitly resisting the Gray Man:

http://i.imgur.com/HMzm1Lx.jpg

Wisdom of Solomon sees through illusions:
http://i.imgur.com/HSrhbMC.jpg

Yet he's still struggling to break it, even with Manhunter's help. That's hardly a great feat. Remember, Ikaris doesn't need to control him forever to win. The guy's gone toe-to-toe with the likes of Hercules, Red Hulk and Namor. If he can keep Marvel docile for any stretch of time, he can put him down.

None of the scans I posted were illusions, so that doesn't help him either. Basically, all I want is a showing of him mentally overpowering a telepath of note who is trying to control him, without outside help or influence. If someone can show that, we can move past this point.

Originally posted by carver9
Captain Marvel stomps.

You can't be serious.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Yet he's still struggling to break it, even with Manhunter's help. That's hardly a great feat. Remember, Ikaris doesn't need to control him forever to win. The guy's gone toe-to-toe with the likes of Hercules, Red Hulk and Namor. If he can keep Marvel docile for any stretch of time, he can put him down.

None of the scans I posted were illusions, so that doesn't help him either. Basically, all I want is a showing of him mentally overpowering a telepath of note who is trying to control him, without outside help or influence. If someone can show that, we can move past this point.

So this^

Funny how people are so quick to give flying brick characters free passes when it comes to mind control.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Yet he's still struggling to break it, even with Manhunter's help. That's hardly a great feat. Remember, Ikaris doesn't need to control him forever to win. The guy's gone toe-to-toe with the likes of Hercules, Red Hulk and Namor. If he can keep Marvel docile for any stretch of time, he can put him down.

None of the scans I posted were illusions, so that doesn't help him either. Basically, all I want is a showing of him mentally overpowering a telepath of note who is trying to control him, without outside help or influence. If someone can show that, we can move past this point.


Hmmmmm......when Ikaris fought Namor, Rogers and Jim wasnt he under mind control? I cant remember the specifics some kinda god control thing

Yes

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Hmmmmm......when Ikaris fought Namor, Rogers and Jim wasnt he under mind control? I cant remember the specifics some kinda god control thing

Yep he was. This specific form of control worked effectively on any being defined as a "god". And Cap does hint in the fight that the Kree could take over Hercules and even Thor or "Some lost god of Saturn".

Although Ikaris was fighting the control and thereby holding himself back slightly.

Yea great scene

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
So this^

Funny how people are so quick to give flying brick characters free passes when it comes to mind control.

Not a free pass for Billy, just not a free pass for Ikaris.
Because he was shown to mind control (and not even deep mind control, but mind cintrol where the person is still self aware in one case) Hank Pym and some one other character, doesnt put Ikarus in the same league as (canon) Mr. Mind, Gray Man or Despero.

Thats like me going into a thread saying Luke Cage can beat Doomsday because he's punched out Ironclad.
Both Cage and Superman have super strength, so it makes sense, right? They're automatically in the same league.
I'd be (rightly) laughed off the site.

No, just because Ikaris has shown sime low level TP doesnt mean its going to be enough to take out CM, who has resisted, one way or another, way way more powerful mind control.

Thats my stance, and i wont beat it into the ground any further.
Someone wants to make a case on a physical battle, i'm all ears. Mind control? Done and done for me.

Fair enough, although at this stage your logic is questionable, IMO. You have provided no examples of CM successfully repelling mind control. All you've shown is that it happens to him very often, and he always fails to break free without some form of aid. The constant is that he is always vulnerable to these mental assaults, not that he overcomes them. Therefore, it is entirely reasonable to assume that Ikaris will be able to overcome him telepathically.

Cap is way faster though, he has some rather impressive speed feats. Like one where he writes huge letters across the entire country very quickly..or something like that.

What exactly did he write?!?

Originally posted by riv6672
Not a free pass for Billy, just not a free pass for Ikaris.
Because he was shown to mind control (and not even deep mind control, but mind cintrol where the person is still self aware in one case) Hank Pym and some one other character, doesnt put Ikarus in the same league as (canon) Mr. Mind, Gray Man or Despero.

Thats like me going into a thread saying Luke Cage can beat Doomsday because he's punched out Ironclad.
Both Cage and Superman have super strength, so it makes sense, right? They're automatically in the same league.
I'd be (rightly) laughed off the site.

No, just because Ikaris has shown sime low level TP doesnt mean its going to be enough to take out CM, who has resisted, one way or another, way way more powerful mind control.

Thats my stance, and i wont beat it into the ground any further.
Someone wants to make a case on a physical battle, i'm all ears. Mind control? Done and done for me.


Distorting ones mind during a fight is a HUGE advantage. If I can inhibit your sense to clock you, you are in big trouble. It doesn't have to be flat out mind control.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/imgsrv/preview/0/0/1/ANINVADERS2014005-int-LR2-5-d19c4.jpg

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Distorting ones mind during a fight is a HUGE advantage. If I can inhibit your sense to clock you, you are in big trouble. It doesn't have to be flat out mind control.
To which i can only respond:

CM wins this one.
As for people who want to know who is the strongest superhero in DC(Pre-Flashpoint), the editor of DC Comics Charles Kochman gave the answer to that question.
http://imgur.com/3ec2lFV
"If one were to indulge in that favorite childhood pastime of 'Who is stronger than whom?', for my money, Captain Marvel was strongest of them all.' - Charles Kochman.

Neat. Totally saving that

CM wins these, Ikaris is good but he's not Superman, Thor, Hyperion, majestic etc he doesn't have the dynamic strength to contend. Even he can amp, so can CM if he want to be a dick combining his power of Zeus, atlas, I think he has done it before

Originally posted by riv6672
What exactly did he write?!?

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/125833/2400501-cmcloudsalso5dimpspower.jpg

Nice, he did that in maybe 10 seconds judging by the dialogue around him.

Wrote a large continent sized sentence with clouds in that time.

If you're lightspeed, you could cross around the equator like 8 times in a second.

Billy's feat is a lot more complex than simply flying in a straight line.

Wouldn't surprise me if its a lighspeed+ feat, certainly at least relativistic.

Ikaris' showing against Namor and others was beastly.

Pre-FP Billy may be on another level, though. DC characters in the herald tier tend to be.

Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
CM wins this one.
As for people who want to know who is the strongest superhero in DC(Pre-Flashpoint), the editor of DC Comics Charles Kochman gave the answer to that question.
http://imgur.com/3ec2lFV
"If one were to indulge in that favorite childhood pastime of 'Who is stronger than whom?', for my money, Captain Marvel was strongest of them all.' - Charles Kochman.
Going by an editor's opinion?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Going by an editor's opinion?



You'd want it to be Superman? facepalm

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You'd want it to be Superman? facepalm
Superman has been described as strongest being on Earth several times on panel.

So, no need for an opinion from an Editor.

Originally posted by riv6672
To which i can only respond:

Your "stance" is based on you ignoring one characters known power set and also the other character's lack of defense to it.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Ikaris' showing against Namor and others was beastly.

Pre-FP Billy may be on another level, though. DC characters in the herald tier tend to be.

Ikaris in in the herald tier.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Going by an editor's opinion?



We should go by yours?

Yes.

Billy wins more often than not.

Billy 7-8/10

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman has been described as strongest being on Earth several times on panel.

So, no need for an opinion from an Editor.
It was an editor thst allowed that to happen.

Actually, Charles Kochman(DC Editor) is not the only person to say that Captain Marvel is the strongest, Alex Ross himself said the same thing, twice.
http://imgur.com/e44ssfi
http://imgur.com/fzAY0J9
We even have Jerry Ordway(the writer of Power of Shazam graphic novel and series) to say that Cap with his speed can match Flash in race(after all let's not forget that Flash was outrunned by both Hermes and Mercury).
http://imgur.com/TLTJwfC

As for people who say that editor's words don't matter that's dumb thing to say, they are the one who allow the characters have their powerlevels, they are above writers, if they say something then it becomes a fact. Also just because Superman was stated to be strongest doesn't meant he is, Black Adam and Marvel were stated to be omnipotent and all-powerful, Darkseid was stated to omnipotent, WW was stated to be second only to Supes, yet there are many characters who are stronger than WW, and so on...

Your words are wise, and will fall on many deaf ears.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Going by an editor's opinion?


He's just doing what you do.

Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Actually, Charles Kochman(DC Editor) is not the only person to say that Captain Marvel is the strongest, Alex Ross himself said the same thing, twice.
http://imgur.com/e44ssfi
http://imgur.com/fzAY0J9


Yeah, Alex Ross, the biggest fanboy of Captain Marvel.

What he says is irrelevant. Captain Marvel never looked stronger than Superman in Kingdom Come which was written by Mark Waid. Not to mention, it's an alternate reality.

Alex Ross' opinion is as much valid as a writer saying Iron Man is invincible because he is "Invincible."

What's that has to do with anything? Superman has casually matched speed of mercury when Captain Marvel Jr had been given full access to it and it had been amped a million fold.

Cap has outright Bern stated as slower than Superman in Superman/Shazam : First Thunder.

Flash was restricted to Mach 1 in that era. You might as well compare Cap to classic Quicksilver.

So why didn't that became a fact? Why is it that Superman has always looked better than Cap post crisis to the point that Eclipsed Superman nearly beat Cap to death in their only conclusive fight?

Why is Superman able to restrain Blaze while weakened when under the same writer Ordway, Blaze choked out Black Adam with one hand?

Or Superman while holding back able to stalemate Adam when he is explicitly stated to be stronger and more powerful than Captain Marvel in the very same issue?


Yeah and an editor's opinion is somehow valid, right?

Superman has been stated to be the most powerful being on Earth nearly 30 times in post crisis history by 30 different writers. Would you like me to post all that and compare that to Cap's history?

But an editor says it and somehow its the truth now, eh?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He's just doing what you do.
When did I ever use Editor comments as proof? Do I use Tom Brevoort's comments as proof that Thor has no superspeed?

Originally posted by abhilegend
When did I ever use Editor comments as proof? Do I use Tom Brevoort's comments as proof that Thor has no superspeed?
Lol.. Pretty sure u did.

U've used Brevoort for different things. For example you bring him up on anything concerning The End...

Come on bro.

Come on bro indeed.
Its not so much abhi being a fanboy thats so funny (though it is), its when he discounts others (in this case Alex Ross) for being fanboys.

He has to know how ridiculous he comes off. He has to. The compulsions at work in his posting are fascinating.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, Alex Ross, the biggest fanboy of Captain Marvel.
Still doesn't change the fact that he is a writer and works for DC.
Originally posted by abhilegend
What he says is irrelevant. Captain Marvel never looked stronger than Superman in Kingdom Come which was written by Mark Waid. Not to mention, it's an alternate reality.

What he says is relevant, as he is the writer, and his words hold much more power than mine or yours. Actually he did look stronger than Supes in KC, Supes even said that Marvel was the mightiest of them all. Also the only reference of KC Alex said was in my 2 scan, in 1 scans he said nothing about KC.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Alex Ross' opinion is as much valid as a writer saying Iron Man is invincible because he is "Invincible."

Bad compariing. It is kinda obvious that it is hyperbole, as for CM being strongest is different.
Originally posted by abhilegend
What's that has to do with anything? Superman has casually matched speed of mercury when Captain Marvel Jr had been given full access to it and it had been amped a million fold.

Maybe you should also know the context, the context is that their power was flucating, and it is CMJ, who is nowhere near as fast CM, and on top of that Mary Marvel and CM were also powered, so he only had a small portion of Speed of Mercury, and on top of that the magic on Earth was flucating so they were less powerful, that is an irrelevant showing, and i can give you words of Mark Waid himself saying that Cap is around Flash when it comes to speed, i can even show you feats of Cap flying so fast, that he time travels, and even travels so fast that enters the 5th dimension(the time is 4th dimension.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Cap has outright Bern stated as slower than Superman in Superman/Shazam : First Thunder.

More fanfictions, please. It was never stated.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Flash was restricted to Mach 1 in that era. You might as well compare Cap to classic Quicksilver.

I agree on that part, but even after WotG, Cap has also became faster, he has time traveled via pure speed(which only Flashes so far have shown), and has even entered 5th dimension, and the writers like Jerry and Mark already said that Cap is around Flash when it comes to pure speed.
Originally posted by abhilegend
So why didn't that became a fact? Why is it that Superman has always looked better than Cap post crisis to the point that Eclipsed Superman nearly beat Cap to death in their only conclusive fight?

Because Superman is more popular, also Cap wasn't even trying to fight against Superman, and Eclipso Supes and Cap had rematch, and Supes couldn't beat him just barely stalemate, and Cap was still holding back. Also i can also give you showings were Cap dominates Supes, they had many fights.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Why is Superman able to restrain Blaze while weakened when under the same writer Ordway, Blaze choked out Black Adam with one hand?

Ever heard of PIS? Blaze is Hell-Lord Level being like Mephisto she would trash Supes anyday of week, and her powers are magic which makes it even worse, it was good old plain PIS. Also in the same fight Captain Marvel while having broken hand and small fraction of his power was beating BA, and also BA shruged of that choke later. Also years later, when Blaze stole Satanus' and Neron's power(both are reality warpers), and got the power of the ruler of Hell(as she became the ruler of Hell a.k.a Domina), she got her ass kicked handily by Freddy Freeman, who was the Captain Marvel at that time.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Or Superman while holding back able to stalemate Adam when he is explicitly stated to be stronger and more powerful than Captain Marvel in the very same issue?

More fanfictions, please, you should reread the issue, Superman doesn't hold back, he himself literally said that against somone like BA he doesn't hold back, also it was Adam who was holding back, and he wasn't even trying to fight back. He was simply trying to say that Supes is under mindcontrol, also it was never stated that BA is stronger than Marvel, both of them are stronger than Supes, but unlike BA, Marvel holds back a lot.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah and an editor's opinion is somehow valid, right?

Yep, because they are basically the top dogs in DC.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman has been stated to be the most powerful being on Earth nearly 30 times in post crisis history by 30 different writers. Would you like me to post all that and compare that to Cap's history?

He maybe have been stated in comics, but not by writers or editors, also MMH is more powerful than Supes. Also if we go by statements in comics, Cap was stated be omnipotent more than once, was stated be unstoppable, was stated to be all-powerful and etc... Also Wonder Woman was stated to be second to Supes, yet i can name you a dozen Earth based characters stronger than her, and Supes was never more powerful than Marvel, it is actually otherwise, also Jerry Ordway has said that DC would never allow them to have a "real" fight between Marvel and Supes.

Originally posted by abhilegend
But an editor says it and somehow its the truth now, eh?

Editors are in top hierarchy in comics industry their words are above the words of the writers, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is wrong, just deal with it. There are many characters more powerful than Superman.

Yeah. It happens even to one's favorites.
There's way more powerful characters than Blue Beetle, Ben Grimm, Ka-Zar...i'm
Ok with it.

Anyway, looks like CM stomps Ikaris now, at least if he cut loose a bit.

I've not seen an Ikaris speed feat that can hang with the one Surtur posted for CM.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Lol.. Pretty sure u did.

U've used Brevoort for different things. For example you bring him up on anything concerning The End...

Come on bro.
Nope.

Its his opinion that The End is non canon.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Ikaris' showing against Namor and others was beastly.

Pre-FP Billy may be on another level, though. DC characters in the herald tier tend to be.

Iirc,it was a stalemate,with namor getting more shots in,namor was also coming from imprisonmet prior to that

Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Still doesn't change the fact that he is a writer and works for DC.

Incorrect, he is an artist and has never written anything for DC other than alternate reality comic Justice.




Of course it doesn't. He is an artist. Not a writer.



No, he didn't. Yes, "world's mightiest mortal" is his nickname.

That's also from Thy Kingdom Come, yet another alternate reality which has nothing to do with Kingdom Come.




Why is it hyperbole?




Yeah, none of that is correct. What happened is Captain Marvel got splintered when he was trying to change into Captain Marvel and his speed and strength was transferred in Freddy amped up a million fold.


http://i.imgur.com/HanWWu1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/U0tN7dg.jpg



That's not how he portrayed them. Under Mark Waid, when Flash went back in time to fight Anti Monitor, Captain Marvel and Byrne Superman couldn't even see him moving.



In Post crisis? Yeah, show me.





Yes, I wrote and drew that fanfiction.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Speed/flight/firstthunder02a.jpg




I'd like to see where Cap traveled back in time and entered 5th dimension.




That's a funny way to distort what actually happened in the comic. Show us where Cap wasn't trying to fight when the very first thing he does is suckershot Superman from behind.



Eclipso wasn't trying to injure Cap there. He just wanted Cap's body as it was magical.



Please go ahead. I'd like a good laugh.




Nice fanfiction. Why is it PIS? And why would that suddenly make that disappear? This isn't comicvine.



You are perhaps more forgetful than what I give you credit for. Adam thrashed Billy there. It was only after Shazam gave him a portion of his powers, he was able to fight back against Adam.



Freddy was powered by lords of order and chaos. Not by Shazam.

Totally different power levels.




Yes, as much he does against humans. When he stops holding back at the end of fight and threw a punch that could split a moon in half, Adam backs down.



http://i.imgur.com/UvJRxrr.jpg

"Blessed with all the powers of Captain Marvel and more."

http://i.imgur.com/XM1VTWM.jpg

"Hits harder than Captain Marvel too."

Lolz at being stronger than Superman though. A fully determined Captain Marvel had to stack the strength of Achilles on strength of hercules to stalemate a holding back Superman.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/capsupesarm2a.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/capsupesarm2b.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/capsupesarm2c.jpg





Not his opinions are though. Unless there is something in the comic somewhere.





The scenes are written by writers and edited by editors. The characters don't write themselves.



He really isn't. Even his own writer says that.



Where?



Not second strongest though.



Oh really? Let me know when Captain Marvel is stated to be more powerful than Superman.



Funny, the same Jerry Ordway wrote a scene where an all out Superman killed, Cap, Diana, Hal, Flash and Supergirl all at the same time.

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1991%20Red%20Glass%20-%20All%20Out%20precedent/03%20Action%20Comics%20666/1992a%20Sept%20-%20Adventures%20494/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman494p17.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1991%20Red%20Glass%20-%20All%20Out%20precedent/03%20Action%20Comics%20666/1992a%20Sept%20-%20Adventures%20494/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman494p18.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1991%20Red%20Glass%20-%20All%20Out%20precedent/03%20Action%20Comics%20666/1992a%20Sept%20-%20Adventures%20494/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman494p19.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1991%20Red%20Glass%20-%20All%20Out%20precedent/03%20Action%20Comics%20666/1992a%20Sept%20-%20Adventures%20494/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman494p20.jpg

What is a real fight between two fictional characters?





I don't have to deal with anything. What an editor says in his opinion means jackshit. Unless it sees the print its meaningless.

And I see you know Captain Marvel taking on Dreadnaught after he absorbed powers from J'onn, Superman, Aquaman and Elongated Man. Just after that a disguised Superman (he explained that in the last scan, he had the force-field and a force field so Psiphon couldn't deactivate his powers again) KTFO Dreadnaught with the power of Superman, J'onn, Captain Marvel, Aquaman and Ralph.

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27646296_advsupes442-19.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27646298_advsupes442-20.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27646301_advsupes442-21.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27646304_advsupes442-22.jpg

Pretty neat, huh?

^^^so many pretty scans!

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Anyway, looks like CM stomps Ikaris now, at least if he cut loose a bit.

I've not seen an Ikaris speed feat that can hang with the one Surtur posted for CM.
Good point.