Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who's plan worked better?

Who's plan will have longer lasting side effects?

Who more effectively turned the heroes against each other?

Who more used the parent card affectively against our heroes?

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Who's plan worked better?

Who's plan will have longer lasting side effects?

Who more effectively turned the heroes against each other?

Who more used the parent card affectively against our heroes?

Zemo

Luthor

Zemo

Zemo

Zemo in all four

Zemo in all.

Luthor in all four.

Originally posted by juggerman
Zemo

Luthor

Zemo

Zemo



I still don't understand what Lex was thinking turning Zod into Doomsday when he had no means whatsoever of controlling or killing him if/when he killed Superman. Sending out a signal to the New Gods (allegedly) also makes zero sense. Zemo actually made sense. It was a wholly personal vendetta of vengeance.

Zemo

Luthor

Luthor

Tie

Originally posted by DrDeadpool
Luthor in all four.

Originally posted by MF DELPH


I still don't understand what Lex was thinking turning Zod into Doomsday when he had no means whatsoever of controlling or killing him if/when he killed Superman. Sending out a signal to the New Gods (allegedly) also makes zero sense. Zemo actually made sense. It was a wholly personal vendetta of vengeance. I really wonder why someone didn't speak up after reading the script and say it didn't make any phucking sense.

Originally posted by MF DELPH


I still don't understand what Lex was thinking turning Zod into Doomsday when he had no means whatsoever of controlling or killing him if/when he killed Superman. Sending out a signal to the New Gods (allegedly) also makes zero sense. Zemo actually made sense. It was a wholly personal vendetta of vengeance.

I think that Luthor was written to be a partially retarded character, at least Eisenberg came off that way at times.

Originally posted by Mindset
I really wonder why someone didn't speak up after reading the script and say it didn't make any phucking sense.

Someone probably did say something, but WB's were like rawr rawr money! And Synders like, yes, yes.

EisenLex was is one of the best villains in the history of pop culture.

Luthor

Luthor

Zemo

Zemo

Originally posted by playa1258
EisenLex was is one of the best villains in the history of pop culture.

Ha!

Zemo. End of the film even makes a point to show that despite his imprisonment, he still won. In BvS Luthor may have gotten Superman killed, but he didn't kill his reputation, which is what Luthor really wanted.

Luthor. I imagine it will be easier for Tony and Cap to compromise than it will be to resurrect Supes from the dead. Even at the end of CW Steve is sending negotiation letters to Tony.

Zemo, only because Supes and Bats were already opposing each other ideologically before Lex instigated their fight. With Zemo, all the animosity that happened between Cap and Tony was because of him.

Tie. Luthor actually managed to subjugate Superman, probably putting Superman in the first major moral dilemma of his life. Supes even hints at Lois that he would kill Batman if he had to for his mom's protection. Zemo revealing Bucky killed the Starks definitely destroyed Cap and Tony's friendship.

Luthor played Batman like a fool and his creature managed ti kill Superman.

Zemo didnt shit outside putting a temporal rift between Stark and Rogers.

Originally posted by TH3_V01D
Luthor played Batman like a fool and his creature managed ti kill Superman.

Zemo didnt shit outside putting a temporal rift between Stark and Rogers.

Yes, Batman was portrayed as a moron and Superman died from little green light.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Superman died from little green light.

That's not what killed him

lol @ claiming Zemo's actions were temporary when Bats & Supes were on the same page, and Supes was already showing signs of returning (the dirt on the coffin), before the movie was even finished.

Originally posted by juggerman
That's not what killed him

Being in a shitty movie is what killed him.

Zemo on all fours.....

Originally posted by Silent Master
Being in a shitty movie is what killed him.

That's harsh

pay no attention to Silent Mater, he's a known Batman hater

Originally posted by Silent Master
Being in a shitty movie is what killed him.

Originally posted by juggerman
That's harsh

The truth usually is.

The MCU is vastly overrated. Civil War sucked ass. Fantastic Four was better.

Sounds like someone needs some hemorrhoid cream.

Miles Tellar was robbed of Oscar glory.

Originally posted by playa1258
The MCU is vastly overrated. Civil War sucked ass. Fantastic Four was better.

.............................................................................
............................................................
............................................................
..................................
...........................................................
..............................................................
.................................
................................................................
....................................................................
......................
..................................................................
.
..................................................................
.....................
...................................................................
.......................................................................................
...................................................................
.......................................................................................
.................................................................................
.........................................................................
...............................................................................
...........................................................................

.............................................................................
are you blind and deaf or simply retarded?

Before answering these questions. Let discuss both plans.

1) Lex orchestrated Africa incident to start negative conversations about Superman. It started conversations about Superman in government offices to media. It's benefit to Lex- It gave red alerts to government, put doubt against Superman in people's mind and give Lex more power to experiment on Kryptonian tech and more importantelly license to transport kryptonite to country ( We know it not went as He intended thanks to Senate Finch).

2) Create bad buzz about Batman in Superman's prospective. It rise tension between Superman and Batman

3) Lex know that Bruce investigating Lex so Lex invited Bruce on party and gave a fake window to Bruce so that He can manipulate what information to provide.

4.1) Manipulate Wallace into filing case against Superman and bomb building. From Clark, Bruce and most people's prospective, Wallace hated Superman and file case and when Superman arrived He do blast to kill Superman. Benefit to Lex- Kill everyone who have doubt against Lex and potential witness, it temporarily disband community which supervise kryptonian ship and Superman affairs so Lex get chance to do unsupervised experiment in ship, it divert whole media and government's attention to Superman And main benefit in next step.
4.2) Send latters to Bruce on name of Wallace. From Bruce's prospective Wallace hated Superman and This bombing was a last resort of Wallace to kill Superman. It push Bruce from egde. Lex had everything in place, from kryptonite to full unsupervised control to kryptonian ship. So Lex manipulate Bruce to fast track this plan to kill Superman. Bruce realized that people dying so He have to do it quickly.

5) Lex kidnap Martha and Lois to make Superman kill Bruce.

This was his whole initial plan. Doomsday get involved because of Lex's curiosity about technology. When He learned about Doomsday. He create him as failsafe. He was crazy. He prefer world destruction over losing.( I already write long post and This is whole another long discussion)

Now on Zemo,

When we first meet Zemo. He had some crucial information about Avengers, Hydra and shield. Most likely He know that Captain and Bucky aka Winter Soldier are childhood friend. When He torture hydra soldier. He was asking about December 16th 1991 specifically. Why? That day Tony's parents die. If Zemo was intrested in that day from start, It means that Zemo known about murder of Tony's parents but had no proof. So Trying to find proof. Another person who know about that day was Bucky. But for Zemo capturing Bucky was not easy. So He framed Bucky in a bombing. When Bucky get captured, He infiltrate building in disguise and interrogate Bucky and found information about that day and Travel to Hydra base to find video proof.

Zemo's plan - 1) frame Bucky so that He can interrogate Bucky after government catch him.
2). Disguise and interrogate Bucky to Find information about hydra base and death of Starks.
3) Find proof and show these proofs to Tony and hope that Tony try to take revenge on Bucky and Steve try to save Bucky. it break bond between Tony and Steve.


He had no idea about Sokovia accords and tension between Avengers. He had no plan to put Avengers against each other before showing proof of Tony's parents murder. He incidentally break Avengers.


Now observe difference between complexity of both plan. Lex control everything from start. He knew what about to happen in every big moment pre Batman Superman fight. On other hand Zemo had no idea about most of things happening in movie. He incidentally put things in motion, INCIDENTALLY. So In my opinions It's unfair to compare both plans.

Anyway Here is my answer,

1) Lex's every step works perfectly but his initial plan fail at last step but Doomsday works as failsafe.
Zemo's plan works, It put Steve and Tony against each other at climax. But it was influence by many outside factors. About them He had no idea.

2) It's difficult to separate effect of Zemo's plan and Sokovia accords. Sokovia accords effect overshadowe Zemo's plan.
Lex's plan will have negative effects. He want to kill Superman but It kick start Justice league.
Tony and Steve going to stay at odd for longer time over Bucky.

3) Lex, Superman was holding back at start, He always do but Batman was going all out on Superman. In Civil war, Tony was going against Bucky and Captain was getting in way. They were not against each other.

4) Both play parents card good. Zemo to make Tony angry and Lex to blackmail Superman.

What exactly was Luthor planning on doing with Doomsday if Batman managed to Superman?

Originally posted by juggerman
What exactly was Luthor planning on doing with Doomsday if Batman managed to Superman?

LotR LARP.

Originally posted by juggerman
What exactly was Luthor planning on doing with Doomsday if Batman managed to Superman?

*if Batman managed to kill Superman*

Originally posted by Grewal59
Before answering these questions. Let discuss both plans.

1) Lex orchestrated Africa incident to start negative conversations about Superman. It started conversations about Superman in government offices to media. It's benefit to Lex- It gave red alerts to government, put doubt against Superman in people's mind and give Lex more power to experiment on Kryptonian tech and more importantelly license to transport kryptonite to country ( We know it not went as He intended thanks to Senate Finch).

2) Create bad buzz about Batman in Superman's prospective. It rise tension between Superman and Batman

3) Lex know that Bruce investigating Lex so Lex invited Bruce on party and gave a fake window to Bruce so that He can manipulate what information to provide.

4.1) Manipulate Wallace into filing case against Superman and bomb building. From Clark, Bruce and most people's prospective, Wallace hated Superman and file case and when Superman arrived He do blast to kill Superman. Benefit to Lex- Kill everyone who have doubt against Lex and potential witness, it temporarily disband community which supervise kryptonian ship and Superman affairs so Lex get chance to do unsupervised experiment in ship, it divert whole media and government's attention to Superman And main benefit in next step.
4.2) Send latters to Bruce on name of Wallace. From Bruce's prospective Wallace hated Superman and This bombing was a last resort of Wallace to kill Superman. It push Bruce from egde. Lex had everything in place, from kryptonite to full unsupervised control to kryptonian ship. So Lex manipulate Bruce to fast track this plan to kill Superman. Bruce realized that people dying so He have to do it quickly.

5) Lex kidnap Martha and Lois to make Superman kill Bruce.

This was his whole initial plan. Doomsday get involved because of Lex's curiosity about technology. When He learned about Doomsday. He create him as failsafe. He was crazy. He prefer world destruction over losing.( I already write long post and This is whole another long discussion)

Now on Zemo,

When we first meet Zemo. He had some crucial information about Avengers, Hydra and shield. Most likely He know that Captain and Bucky aka Winter Soldier are childhood friend. When He torture hydra soldier. He was asking about December 16th 1991 specifically. Why? That day Tony's parents die. If Zemo was intrested in that day from start, It means that Zemo known about murder of Tony's parents but had no proof. So Trying to find proof. Another person who know about that day was Bucky. But for Zemo capturing Bucky was not easy. So He framed Bucky in a bombing. When Bucky get captured, He infiltrate building in disguise and interrogate Bucky and found information about that day and Travel to Hydra base to find video proof.

Zemo's plan - 1) frame Bucky so that He can interrogate Bucky after government catch him.
2). Disguise and interrogate Bucky to Find information about hydra base and death of Starks.
3) Find proof and show these proofs to Tony and hope that Tony try to take revenge on Bucky and Steve try to save Bucky. it break bond between Tony and Steve.


He had no idea about Sokovia accords and tension between Avengers. He had no plan to put Avengers against each other before showing proof of Tony's parents murder. He incidentally break Avengers.


Now observe difference between complexity of both plan. Lex control everything from start. He knew what about to happen in every big moment pre Batman Superman fight. On other hand Zemo had no idea about most of things happening in movie. He incidentally put things in motion, INCIDENTALLY. So In my opinions It's unfair to compare both plans.

Anyway Here is my answer,

1) Lex's every step works perfectly but his initial plan fail at last step but Doomsday works as failsafe.
Zemo's plan works, It put Steve and Tony against each other at climax. But it was influence by many outside factors. About them He had no idea.

2) It's difficult to separate effect of Zemo's plan and Sokovia accords. Sokovia accords effect overshadowe Zemo's plan.
Lex's plan will have negative effects. He want to kill Superman but It kick start Justice league.
Tony and Steve going to stay at odd for longer time over Bucky.

3) Lex, Superman was holding back at start, He always do but Batman was going all out on Superman. In Civil war, Tony was going against Bucky and Captain was getting in way. They were not against each other.

4) Both play parents card good. Zemo to make Tony angry and Lex to blackmail Superman.

The only reason Lex's plans even had a chance at working is because Superman and Batman acted like idiots. The incident in Africa could have easily been explained if Superman had just spoken in public about his side. If Batman had done his research better he'd know that Superman was a good person with a mom named Martha. In fact, Luthor had to stoop to blackmail to even get Superman and Batman fighting, something which Superman could have easily avoided if he didn't palm thrust Batman before talking to him properly.

Zemo on the otherhand had to manipulate the Avengers from behind the scenes, and that's a far harder thing to do. He got them to fight without having to force then to it. And the conflict that he sowed is not something that was resolved by the end of the movie.

Originally posted by FrothByte
If Batman had done his research better he'd know that Superman was a good person with a mom named Martha.

Well to be fair, Superman did an excellent job at hiding his origins. The only people that knew who he really was were himself and his mom. And The entire town of Smallville Kansas. Also he told the General he was from Kansas. And Lex found out but Lex is a super genius with billions at his disposal so of course he could find out........And Lois found out fairly easily after interviewing like 3 people......

Zemo on all 4, sans maybe 2.

Addressing question #2:

- Zemo created a rift between Tony and Steve that will carry over to Infinity War, but we see that Tony has the ability to communicate with Steve's Secret Avengers via burner phone.
- Luthor's actions resulted in the "death" of Superman, the government creating Task Force X/Suicide Squad for metahuman threats, and the call to Darkseid and his crew, starting with Steppenwolf.

I'll give the behind-the-scenes win to Zemo though, due to the fact that Kevin Feige will work with the writers of the Phase 3 movies hand-in-hand to show the aftereffects of Civil War, whereas WB and Snyder are bringing Supes back one movie after he "died" to punch Steppenwolf in the face.

Though I like BvS, most of the plot, especially the titular fight, was due to script necessities, not thought-out in-universe explanations.

EDIT: To the author, good thread.

Thank's mang, though tbh this was bait

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Thank's mang, though tbh this was bait

fair enough.