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Prep war, who wins?

http://i67.tinypic.com/6sc121.jpg

vs

http://i66.tinypic.com/33fc2s4.jpg

There could not be a single person that thinks that John loses any form of a prep war. It's been heavily implied that with enough prep, he could take down the spectre.

Odin erases him.

Originally posted by deathslash
There could not be a single person that thinks that John loses any form of a prep war. It's been heavily implied that with enough prep, he could take down the spectre. Spectre is a *****

Constantine after being slightly bored casts an illusion onto Odin making him think that he is a dead body or something so he doesn't touch him (like he did with Darkseid).

Constantine then uses his Cigar to poke out Odin's other eye and then kicks him in the bollocks.

We tend to see Odin with zero prep, and severely underestimating people while being condescending. And he's still generally the baddest mfer in the room. Let him know his opponent can go to 11, let him put on his serious pants, and John's probably in an epic amount of trouble. If any of John's spells slip up, Odin's base level is at the top of the Skyfather heap. He's just a notch below abstract without so much as getting off the toilet.

John's thing is often pulling a fast one on more powerful types. Sure, he's overpowered a handful. But more often, he knows he's outclassed by a mile, but manages to run a con that keeps him alive or achieves some end. He wouldn't have that luxury here. I'm not saying Constantine can't win. But I'd handicap it in Odin's favor.

Constantine probably manages a win, and it costs him tremendously. Whatever it takes, he'd find some way to bribe, bluff, or back him into a moral checkmate.

Pyrric victories are kind of his thing. He'd sell his own soul to a group of demons, if it could get him what he wants (Which, as I'm sure you know, he DID. )

Odin wins.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Constantine after being slightly bored casts an illusion onto Odin making him think that he is a dead body or something so he doesn't touch him (like he did with Darkseid).

Constantine then uses his Cigar to poke out Odin's other eye and then kicks him in the bollocks.

Odin is above Darkseid. Plus what if Odin just decides to vaporize the area?

Originally posted by Surtur
Odin is above Darkseid. Plus what if Odin just decides to vaporize the area?
No, he idn't.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, he idn't.



I don't know what this is supposed to mean.

Darkseid is way above Odin now.

Originally posted by Zack M
Darkseid is way above Odin now.

He has destroyed galaxies?

Lets say Darkseid has, okay, but Odin could still just vaporize the area around him to take out Constantine.

Originally posted by Surtur
He has destroyed galaxies?

Universes. He also fought AM who destroyed multiple universes just to fight him.

Well I guess he stepped up his game finally. But yeah Odin can still just vaporize Constantine.

He also probably has magic in his beard that can detect when someone is close by. If that's not true then it ought to be.

Darkseid was fooled by one of Constantine's spells as he was ravaging a universe

Yeah, vaping Constantine will be the worst thing Odin could try.

http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11/113883/3148987-turnabout.jpg

Am just saying, going in all guns blazing - against Constantine - is not the way to do it.

But are any of those people skyfather level?

Originally posted by Surtur
But are any of those people skyfather level?

You know the answer to that, hehe.

But that is not the nature of the turnabout spell.

It doesn't matter what the power level of the person is...because the whole point is that it whatever injury John gets, Odin will get.

And as we have seen, due to the nature of magic, the wording is very important. If the spell says only the worthy may lift Mjolnir, it doesn't matter how powerful the spellcaster - only the worthy may lift it. Full stop.

Also if they were both prepping that doesn't make it more likely for Odin to vaporise the area around him. Constantine could do exactly the same thing if if he wanted to.

Odin is surely craftier than that.

So here is the scene where he fools Darkseid (who was multiversal here):
http://imgur.com/1On0vyz
http://imgur.com/zYgsgJn
http://imgur.com/lk2UY8Y
http://imgur.com/jqNImGQ

Then Constantine falls from space to Earth, having been swatted there by Darkseid. And lives.

Traps Zauriel:
http://imgur.com/XHnpDY1

Impressive? This is what Zauriel did to the Phantom Stranger:
http://media.tumblr.com/9f20fa47ade6602fefb140be065201a3/tumblr_inline_munzwpyiQa1r6a69c.jpg

John has trapped and banished the Phantom Stranger himself:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/113883/3149058-phantomtrap1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/113883/3149064-phantombanish1.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You know the answer to that, hehe.

But that is not the nature of the turnabout spell.

It doesn't matter what the power level of the person is...because the whole point is that it whatever injury John gets, Odin will get.

So if Living Tribunal tried to attack John with that spell on..what would happen?



Couldn't Odin just negate the spell because..well, he's Odin? But seriously, how does Odin not have a huge cache of magic shit to draw from, plus his own power? This is prep we are talking about.

It just seems to me both of them would have powerful magic items to draw upon, the only difference being one of them is a skyfather level being even without the magic items.

Originally posted by Surtur
So if Living Tribunal tried to attack John with that spell on..what would happen?



Couldn't Odin just negate the spell because..well, he's Odin?

Again couldn't Constantine negate the spell because well..., he's Constantine?

That isn't the best argument to propagate because you haven't really given any evidence to support it. I can just say the same thing and it doesn't make either of us right without evidence.

See my edit, I wasn't being really serious with that, but the Phantom Stranger thing seems to be one sided prep.

I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you that cosmic beings have underestimated John and been owned.

Johnny Boy summons some space ants.

DS get some bigger scans I cant see shit they are so small.

Originally posted by Surtur
See my edit, I wasn't being really serious with that, but the Phantom Stranger thing seems to be one sided prep.

I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you that cosmic beings have underestimated John and been owned.

Ah right my bad then never saw that mate.

The thing is Odin is a Skyfather in power and probably has a nice attache to boot. But so does Constantine. And I just think Constantine can tip the scales.

Originally posted by Surtur
So if Living Tribunal tried to attack John with that spell on..what would happen?



Couldn't Odin just negate the spell because..well, he's Odin? But seriously, how does Odin not have a huge cache of magic shit to draw from, plus his own power? This is prep we are talking about.

It just seems to me both of them would have powerful magic items to draw upon, the only difference being one of them is a skyfather level being even without the magic items.

Odin could. If he knew about it.

Maybe. We all saw what happened when he tried to negate his own spell with Mjolnir, lol.

Well, we all know in this thread what John can do with prep.

What would Odin do with prep?

If they both have insanely powerful artifacts to draw upon, but one of them is also way way more naturally powerful..why wouldn't that person win?

A lot of the feats seem John being able to momentarily do something. Like with fooling Darkseid and his "18" divine senses. That is kept up for a very short time until Darkseid just swats him aside and leaves. Either he temporarily fights off a powerful being or he takes advantage of one sided prep to trap one.

I guess I could be wrong and Asgard just has shitty magic items? But this is the place where things like the Asgardian Destroyer came from.

Surely with prep Odin rounds up some dwarves and shit and they..do stuff? With magic? They magic-up some stuff lol. Isn't that who builds their magic stuff though?

Originally posted by Surtur
If they both have insanely powerful artifacts to draw upon, but one of them is also way way more naturally powerful..why wouldn't that person win?

A lot of the feats seem John being able to momentarily do something. Like with fooling Darkseid and his "18" divine senses. That is kept up for a very short time until Darkseid just swats him aside and leaves. Either he temporarily fights off a powerful being or he takes advantage of one sided prep to trap one.

Erm, no - the Dolus spell was still in effect. Darkseid swatted him aside because he had no more need for him, believing (mistakenly) that he had already vaped Earth.

There was nothing temporary about it. DS left because, according to all his senses, the Earth was gone.

As for your first point - because in a prep war, it is down to cunning and trickery as well.

Not just showing up on the battlefied with the biggest gun you can get your hands on.

http://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/a4LgwZm_700b.jpg

EDIT: Shit that was the movie universe.


I'm sure it's about cunning too, but I'm sure there are lots of items.

Originally posted by Surtur
But what about this:

http://marvel-movies.wikia.com/wiki/Odin's_Trophy_Room

Oh yes, I am not saying Odin has nothing to bring to the fight.

Or that it is an autowin because lulz, Constantine finds a way.

But in a prep war against a human magician? Even with prior knowledge, you think Odin will come out clad in the Destroyer Armour, wielding the Twilight Sword and Casket against a mere human?

If he knows the human fought off a multiversal being? Yes.

Originally posted by Surtur
If he knows the human fought off a multiversal being? Yes.

So, no lol.

Nobody knows John did it.



Nobody knows who John is, much less that he fooled Darkseid.

Thanks to Broxton, am pretty sure Asgardians are well known. Even if not, the fact that he's fighting Odin (who's pretty famous in Norse mythology) would be a major advantage for John.

That doesn't make sense to me though. I mean obviously I understand John isn't very well known..but then that really just seems like basic knowledge more favors well known characters.

Like some characters are literally known by..not a single person. So the basic knowledge of them would be..nothing at all. But then what is the point of basic knowledge in the first place then?

Originally posted by Surtur
That doesn't make sense to me though. I mean obviously I understand John isn't very well known..but then that really just seems like basic knowledge more favors well known characters.



Reed Richards, Doom etc wouldn't be underestimated. Zatanna, Constantine would be.

Hulk, Superman, Flash, WW would be well known, as well as their weaknesses.

Edit: the point is to bring their characters into play, rather than just relying on powersets.

Someone like Batman, or the Punisher, would be ultra paranoid, and even if they encounter a very little known foe, would still come loaded for bear.

Someone like Odin, who is arrogant and used to being top dog...would do less in his prep.

So we at least agree that Odin could indeed win this fight, he just won't because he underestimates John.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Reed Richards, Doom etc wouldn't be underestimated. Zatanna, Constantine would be.

Hulk, Superman, Flash, WW would be well known, as well as their weaknesses.

Edit: the point is to bring their characters into play, rather than just relying on powersets.

Someone like Batman, or the Punisher, would be ultra paranoid, and even if they encounter a very little known foe, would still come loaded for bear.

Someone like Odin, who is arrogant and used to being top dog...would do less in his prep.

If Odin brings his Machine Gun it's all bets off.

Originally posted by Surtur
So we at least agree that Odin could indeed win this fight, he just won't because he underestimates John.

Oh yes.

Like I said, Odin is still top dog. No autowin just because its Constantine.

But he thrives on being underestimated.

constantine will trick him and the end. Its just another big guy who wants a piece of concake.

It still basically seems to be "he'll trick him cuz he's Constantine".

And backed up by scans. We take their characters into account. Odin will come out, as arrogant as normal, and Constantine will come out loaded for bear.

I've read all the arguments so far. And nobody has come up with a better one than One Angry Scot's yet. Namely, Constantine casting an illusion, poking Odin in his non-patched eye with a lit cigar, and then kicking him in the nuts.

Golden.

Constantine will trick Trigon into thinking Odin kidnapped his daughter like he did in Injustice and Trigon will whoop Odin.

Constantine/Trigon would be interesting.