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I think it means non-applicable power.

Lmao pretty much all of Overation/Fraudiate's feats are not only inapplicable, but also the result of prep, nexuses, drainees and third person hyperbole. Nice try though.

Plagueis > valkorion confirmed

Yea that's about as dumb an argument as it gets

When has valkorion overpowered the force itself?

plagueis didnt fight the force, the force fought him

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I think it means non-applicable power.

Originally posted by diomiosio123
plagueis didnt fight the force, the force fought him

The Force wouldn't dare.

And plagueis won

Because the force didn't directly fight back and no counterforce bothered to rise against them in that sense.

Still won...

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Because the force didn't directly fight back and no counterforce bothered to rise against them in that sense.

If it was that easy, why didn't every sith before them do that? Their power was still significant enough to meaningfully affect the entire living Force, lol.

Also the fact that the Force couldn't beat them head-on and instead needed to create the most powerful being in galactic history is case in point.

"Couldn't beat them head on" lol. Plagueis and Sidious were literally anticipating that the force was going to boil their midichlorians and stop their beating hearts. But of course, like cosmics in Marvel, the force works in mysterious ways. It's obviously immensely impressive, but it's not going to make me believe that Plagueis in the context of a fight is gonna defeat Valkorion. The feat is just so far out there in terms of what's actually applicable to a fight.

Its not as flashy as eating a planet, but far more impactful, and if nothing else is better than what Bioware pulls out their anoos.

Well yeah, Plagueis/Sidious's feat is more impactful/kewler, but conversely Vitiate was going to eat the Galaxy on his own via ritual and billions of simultaneous deaths and attain a legit godlike supremacy over the force. I mean as I said, the unbalancing of the force is just out there in terms of how that applies to a fight. I mean Plagueis and Sidious aren't busting solar systems, are they? Is there even an upper limit other than what's convenient for the debater, I.e. "Better than Valkorion?"

I think it means, that the Force didn't fight them back, because it had different plans. Otherwise they would have ended up with "boiled blood" or "stopped hearts".

"they knew the force had yielded" that implies a degree of resistance though doesn't it, even though it states there wasn't any
Strange

Not fighting back =/= not having intertia

Sure. So with intense meditation over the course of months, Sidious and Plagueis tipped the force in favor of the dark side.

Now how do we apply that to a fight?

Does it have to?

In any case, it translates into their raw power/mastery.

"Vitiate was going to eat the Galaxy on his own via ritual"
How do you apply that to a fight

He says, in a thread about Plagueis and Sidious using a ritual.

There's no indication that they used a ritual though.

Months of meditation amount to the same thing.

It's been retconned anyway, so it's basically irrelevant.

lol, nothing was retconned.

They pulled off something via their own sheer willpower, unlike, say, Vitiate using the power of 8000 sith lords.

Pretty sure it was actually. Force and Destiny: Nexus of Power.

Power he then absorbed.

lmao that's not what a retcon is. It was speculating about a separate phenomenon (Sidious shrouding the minds of the Jedi).

Not the point. It's more impressive than anything Vitiate has done on his own power.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Months of meditation amount to the same thing.

The Sith shrine thing is a canon development, not Legends. It was from an aborted TCW arc that made its way into James Luceno's Tarkin and then regurgitated into Force and Destiny.

DP is legends.

Last time I checked, Force and Destiny is Legends.

Yup. And it incorporates post-split canon lore, such as from Star Wars Rebels. This is another example.

Even if the Sith Shrine thing co-existed with this, it doesn't change the most impressive thing that actually happened here--i.e the creation of the chosen one.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
lmao that's not what a retcon is. It was speculating about a separate phenomenon (Sidious shrouding the minds of the Jedi).

Originally posted by Nai
I think it means, that the Force didn't fight them back, because it had different plans. Otherwise they would have ended up with "boiled blood" or "stopped hearts".


This whole discussion is stupid as hell. It would be bearable if it was the least bit logical.

If the Force didn't resist at all, it wouldn't have required two months of intense meditation.

It certainly didn't retaliate, though. And it's probably the most impressive Force feat in Legends.

DP was such a weak book, though.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
If the Force didn't resist at all, it wouldn't have required two months of intense meditation.

Why not? The scale of the feat is such that they'd need that much time to have any noticeable effect regardless of resistance.

I mean, no-one could seriously argue they actually overpowered the ****ing Force itself, right? No-ones actually that stupid.

We don't disagree. That's a form of resistance, though. Kinda like moving a really heavy stone. The stone isn't "fighting back," it's just heavy to move by its own nature.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I mean, no-one could seriously argue they actually overpowered the ****ing Force itself, right? No-ones actually that stupid.
*glances toward The Ellimist*

Once again here comes the bias
It was the same with darth bane
If this quote was about valkorion everyone would be loving it
But just because its plagueis...

Originally posted by The_Tempest
We don't disagree. That's a form of resistance, though. Kinda like moving a really heavy stone. The stone isn't "fighting back," it's just heavy to move by its own nature.

The God speaks correctly.

Tbh. If we're taking non combat feats, then Kreia blows Plagueis out of water what with her ways of killing the force and all.

Assuming that would've actually worked tbh

I don't think she actually planned that, I think that was just bait to get the Exile to come to Malachor and destroy her.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Assuming that would've actually worked tbh

Someone should ask Avellone about it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I don't think she actually planned that, I think that was just bait to get the Exile to come to Malachor and destroy her.

I wish they'd keep kotor 2 tbh

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Someone should ask Avellone about it.
So... someone get Ant to send him a bunch of emails with loaded questions?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
So... someone get Ant to send him a bunch of emails with loaded questions?
Basically. Or screw I'll message him. I'm interested in a lot more actually.