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Duel takes place on neutral ground

The Hero, tbh










dies

Hero, Kek.

I'll go Savage. Physically superior and around or on the same level of skill technically speaking.

Hero wins, IMO. By the end of Act 3, I have them a notch above Savage but just under Maul.

Originally posted by Syndicate
I'll go Savage. Physically superior and around or on the same level of skill technically speaking.



Savage being anywhere near the Hero in skill is disgusting.

Hero takes him.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Hero takes him.
according to what

He lived a long time ago which means he's automatically super-powerful Because he has better feats and accolades, I guess.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He lived a long time ago which means he's automatically super-powerful Because he has better feats and accolades, I guess.
did you notice that the user emperordmb never argues? he just shitposts

DMB is a really good debater, he's just scared of defending Bane/traumatized by Carthage.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
DMB is a really good debater
put me on ignore

Given that he's trying to defend an impossible position (.ie Bane being worth anything), I'd say he's done decently well.

Originally posted by diomiosio123
never argues... just shitposts

Welcome to KMC.

Originally posted by ares834
Welcome to KMC.

Better feats and accolades/implications, yeah.

Originally posted by Nephthys


Savage being anywhere near the Hero in skill is disgusting.

All HoT has for him is being a battlemaster and defeating some Sith before his prime right? I'll take defeating Plo Koon and disarming Kenobi ( even a distracted one ) above that tbh.

The HoT is the best duelist in the TOR era, stated to be unmatched in lightsaber prowess.

Savage beat Koon by pulling his mask off, he didn't outskill him. Also the Hero would destroy Koon in seconds, so who cares. And Savage being good at beating down a surprised opponent with raw strength has nothing to do with skill either. Savage is a thug with a pipe compared to the HoT, who is noted for her incredible grace, unrivaled reflexes and legendary skill.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The HoT is the best duelist in the TOR era, stated to be unmatched in lightsaber prowess.

Savage beat Koon by pulling his mask off, he didn't outskill him. Also the Hero would destroy Koon in seconds, so who cares. And Savage being good at beating down a surprised opponent with raw strength has nothing to do with skill either. Savage is a thug with a pipe compared to the HoT, who is noted for her incredible grace, unrivaled reflexes and legendary skill.

And Plo Koon is stated to be one of the most powerful Jedi ever...

"Plo Koon is a member of the Jedi High Council and a Jedi General in the Clone Wars. Koon is one of the most powerful Jedi ever, with awesome fighting ability, strong telekinetic powers and superb piloting skills." - Star Wars: Character Encyclopedia.

Not seeing your point.

He matched him even when he was being fired upon by clones. I'd say that demonstrated superiority.

Beating down? Plo Koon is a Djem So user and they were evenly matched for a majority of the fight while Savage was at a disadvantage.

Who cares, he's out of his league against the HoT. She kicked the shit out of 3 of the strongest Jedi of her time while they were amped. She beat Scourge, a Sith with over 1100 kills and 300 years of experience. She's the greatest Jedi in TOR by far even in Act 3. Hell, shes called the best in Act 1. Koon is good but he wouldn't be the greatest of an era like TOR in his wildest dreams. And she continues to get better and has recently been amped by Valkorion.

Koon was distracted by his clones dying, so that evens it out. And matching someone doesn't mean you're as skilled as them. Savage is a powerful brute who gets by largely on his overwhelming physicals.

I meant he beat down Obi-Wan while he was off-guard and outflanked by Maul. When Obi-Wan got serious, we saw what he did to Savage.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Who cares, he's out of his league against the HoT. She kicked the shit out of 3 of the strongest Jedi of her time while they were amped. She beat Scourge, a Sith with over 1100 kills and 300 years of experience. She's the greatest Jedi in TOR by far even in Act 3. Hell, shes called the best in Act 1. Koon is good but he wouldn't be the greatest of an era like TOR in his wildest dreams. And she continues to get better and has recently been amped by Valkorion.

Koon was distracted by his clones dying, so that evens it out. And matching someone doesn't mean you're as skilled as them. Savage is a powerful brute who gets by largely on his overwhelming physicals.

I meant he beat down Obi-Wan while he was off-guard and outflanked by Maul. When Obi-Wan got serious, we saw what he did to Savage.

You do apparently since your argument for HoT's superiority is that he has superior accolades...

Quote for HoT beating 3 of the strongest Jedi of his time that were amped?

Beating Scourge isn't as impressive as showing superiority to Plo Koon who disarmed Ventress while one of his arms was broken. This was a pre prime Ventress but she went on to defeat Fisto and Grievous ( albeit with circumstances ) and show parity with Maul despite wielding only a single blade.

No but he would go on to become one of the most powerful of all time. :P Also lol at HoT being the best Jedi in the ToR era being something impressive. There was Satele and Aryn Leneer as competition during the time of that statement and we don't know if that quote was referring to a specific category like power or combat effectiveness.

Well then, tell me what they've gained from Valk's amp.

He was distracted once in the fight when he had his mask ripped off of him. Matching someone while your hindered does especially when your physical power doesn't account for much against a Djem So practioner.

The scene I'm referring to takes place after Florrum and as you and I both know there were heavy circumstances favoring Kenobi in that fight.

Originally posted by Syndicate
You do apparently since your argument for HoT's superiority is that he has superior accolades...

And feats. And she's not a barely trained duelist who fights like a barbarian. The Hero has real skill and lightsaber mastery. Savage doesn't.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Quote for HoT beating 3 of the strongest Jedi of his time that were amped?

The 3 Jedi the Hero fights are stated to the "the strongest", "most powerful and most resolute Jedi in the Order". After Vitiate turned them they were amped by his power and states it in dialogue options: "my master gave me all the strength I need to finish this". There are more but I can't be ****ed to find them.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Beating Scourge isn't as impressive as showing superiority to Plo Koon who disarmed Ventress while one of his arms was broken. This was a pre prime Ventress but she went on to defeat Fisto and Grievous ( albeit with circumstances ) and show parity with Maul despite wielding only a single blade.

Yes, it is. Scourge would also easily defeat Koon. Ventress doing things when she improves has no baring on Koons feat.

Originally posted by Syndicate
No but he would go on to become one of the most powerful of all time. :P Also lol at HoT being the best Jedi in the ToR era being something impressive. There was Satele and Aryn Leneer as competition during the time of that statement and we don't know if that quote was referring to a specific category like power or combat effectiveness.

So? The Hero is pretty much in the top 10 of all time. Koon could be anywhere. One of the 100 most powerful? 1000? A million. Irrelevant. Koon has nothing on the Hero who's resisted a Dark Side God's power, beaten Vitiate on a nexus, killed Revan and defeated Arcann. She's more powerful than the Barsen'thor who smashes through house-sized blast doors casually while weakened. The Hero has many quotes, so I'm gonna say it was all of the above. She's stated to be their greatest soldier, their greatest champion against the darkness, the most powerful felt, the strongest met etc etc.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Well then, tell me what they've gained from Valk's amp.

Enough to go from being overwhelmed by Arcann with back up to defeating him.

Originally posted by Syndicate
He was distracted once in the fight when he had his mask ripped off of him. Matching someone while your hindered does especially when your physical power doesn't account for much against a Djem So practioner.

Right. He was distracted at the point when Savage beats him. Gosh, I wonder is that has anything to do with it..... Koon using Djem So doesn't mean he's as strong as Savage. He isn't. Savage blatantly didn't outskill him, thus the feat is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Syndicate
The scene I'm referring to takes place after Florrum and as you and I both know there were heavy circumstances favoring Kenobi in that fight.

I also know that having to fight two people at once is a significant enough disadvantage to make up for any advantages Kenobi had.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And feats. And she's not a barely trained duelist who fights like a barbarian. The Hero has real skill and lightsaber mastery. Savage doesn't.



The 3 Jedi the Hero fights are stated to the "the strongest", "most powerful and most resolute Jedi in the Order". After Vitiate turned them they were amped by his power and states it in dialogue options: "my master gave me all the strength I need to finish this". There are more but I can't be ****ed to find them.



Yes, it is. Scourge would also easily defeat Koon. Ventress doing things when she improves has no baring on Koons feat.



So? The Hero is pretty much in the top 10 of all time. Koon could be anywhere. One of the 100 most powerful? 1000? A million. Irrelevant. Koon has nothing on the Hero who's resisted a Dark Side God's power, beaten Vitiate on a nexus, killed Revan and defeated Arcann. She's more powerful than the Barsen'thor who smashes through house-sized blast doors casually while weakened. The Hero has many quotes, so I'm gonna say it was all of the above. She's stated to be their greatest soldier, their greatest champion against the darkness, the most powerful felt, the strongest met etc etc.



Enough to go from being overwhelmed by Arcann with back up to defeating him.



Right. He was distracted at the point when Savage beats him. Gosh, I wonder is that has anything to do with it..... Koon using Djem So doesn't mean he's as strong as Savage. He isn't. Savage blatantly didn't outskill him, thus the feat is irrelevant.



I also know that having to fight two people at once is a significant enough disadvantage to make up for any advantages Kenobi had. The HoT needed MOUNTAINS of help to defeat Revan.

Originally posted by Nephthys



killed Revan



lmfao

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He lived a long time ago which means he's automatically super-powerful Because he has better feats and accolades, I guess.

I think the struck text captures the essence of Neph's butthurt quite well.

Originally posted by Syndicate
You do apparently since your argument for HoT's superiority is that he has superior accolades...

Quote for HoT beating 3 of the strongest Jedi of his time that were amped?

Beating Scourge isn't as impressive as showing superiority to Plo Koon who disarmed Ventress while one of his arms was broken. This was a pre prime Ventress but she went on to defeat Fisto and Grievous ( albeit with circumstances ) and show parity with Maul despite wielding only a single blade.

No but he would go on to become one of the most powerful of all time. :P Also lol at HoT being the best Jedi in the ToR era being something impressive. There was Satele and Aryn Leneer as competition during the time of that statement and we don't know if that quote was referring to a specific category like power or combat effectiveness.

Well then, tell me what they've gained from Valk's amp.

He was distracted once in the fight when he had his mask ripped off of him. Matching someone while your hindered does especially when your physical power doesn't account for much against a Djem So practioner.

The scene I'm referring to takes place after Florrum and as you and I both know there were heavy circumstances favoring Kenobi in that fight.

He obviously would to have shown superiority to Koon as he did. What feats? I'm dying to hear of these lightsaber feats HoT possess.

Fair enough in regards to the Jedi's strength though of course we don't know how they compare to the standard Jedi. The quote you provided showing Vitiate's amping them is unfortunately not up to snuff. You master giving you strength can simply be referring to training or the person's own loyalty and the idea of successfully accomplishing a task set by said Master.

It does as a pre prime Ventress should be comparable to her prime, near prime self. I believe that her defeat of Fisto occurred before her fight with Koon actually. Also Scourge beating around 3 Sith a year for 300 years doesn't mean jack sh!t.

Oh really? Can I get the quote that states HoT is in the top 10? :P

"a Dark Side God's"

Holy sh!t... You're legitimately deluded.

The Hero beat a weakened Vitiate who was restricted to Temple busting power and has absolutely 0 lightsaber feats. That's essentially PoD Bane without any skill feats. Not somebody I'd put above Koon.

"killed Revan"

Citation needed.

"and defeated Arcann."

Citation needed.

Quote for HoT being more powerful then Thor?

Don't care how many quotes they have unless you can provide them.

Same as above. Was unaware HoT defeated Arcann. Need the circumstances to their fight.

I agree that Koon's distraction was what allowed Savage to remove his mask but that doesn't account for the rest of the fight where Savage was being fired upon and Plo Koon was NOT distracted.

Granted Savage is stronger but I don't see why that would mean much in a fight where Savage's strength advantage wasn't emphasized at any point and logically shouldn't have been since both were strength oriented fighters.

And I'm saying Savage improved between Florrum and his next encounter with Obi Wan.

Dark Side God's power

Neph I'm not going to lie. This line literally made me cringe and worry for your mental health. Seek help please.

He's talking about Sel Makor, lmfao. Learn 2 SWTOR.

Legit next thread should be Synd's Positions vs Neph's Arguments.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Dark Side God's power

Neph I'm not going to lie. This line literally made me cringe and worry for your mental health. Seek help please.

Like Skills said, I'm referring to Sel Makor. It is a non-corporeal Dark Side entity born from the collective darkside of an entire species (or two species, although they used to be the same species.... You know what, it isn't important). The Hero walked into the heart of it's power, which is so incredibly corrupted by the darkside that even powerful Sith can't go near it without going insane, and resisted it's direct influence. Sel Makor is powerful enough to keep Vitiate captive, fuel a planet-wide madness ritual, create beings out of thin air and was stated to be a threat to all life in the galaxy.

God-like is an apt term.

Ah thought you were referring to Vitiate as he was when HoT defeated him.

All life in the Galaxy? Nah. All of Existence.

Alright that's enough debating to last me a month. I'll be off for the rest of the day.

Ciao.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Legit next thread should be Synd's Positions vs Neph's Arguments.

Judge by rate of resultant cancer cell replication.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Judge by rate of resultant cancer cell replication.
Yep, it's a good thing both make terrible arguments and have terrible positions though. Might want a bonus round where loser gets their respective arguments and positions.

The Hero would butcher Opress, yeah.

I'd almost forgotten about this.Will need to type up a response. :>

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The Hero would butcher Opress, yeah.

Originally posted by Emperordmb


Emp I don't understand your sudden TOR wank.

It's hardly sudden. I've had all the Force using protags above Sheev's Apprentices' Apprentices' tier for quite a while now.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
It's hardly sudden. I've had all the Force using protags above Sheev's Apprentices' Apprentices' tier for quite a while now.

Ew. Also this is lightsabers only Emp.

The Hero is a duelist first by far. Lightsabers only is a benefit for her.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Hero is a duelist first by far. Lightsabers only is a benefit for her.

Him*

The Hero's dueling feats are trash.

I'll have a response up to your post in a little bit.

Head to hangout.

For someone who's supposed to not be here, you sure do keep posting.

Yeah, well, I try to take a break for a month or so, and then I'm gone for, like, two weeks, and all hell breaks lose.

Face it, you guys can't even function without me.

You're more of a minor annoyance that keeps flaring up to have a smug sense of importance, tbh. Like a pimple.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://static.deathandtaxesmag.com/uploads/2012/09/tear8.gif

Savage was trained as a warrior all his life and he regained those memories upon Ventress returning them to him in their fight with Dooku. Also Luke never even had a proper lightsaber instructor unlike Savage and he was able to face Vader within a few years. I don't see why you're taking issue with Savage specifically when we have other examples of incredible skill/power growth in the medium. The SWTOR protagonists themselves are great examples of this.

About 90% of the people you mentioned are featless as duelists themselves. Only Scourge and Arcann are any kind of impressive and Arcann only because he beat the HoT who is impressive because he pressed/beat Arcann. Circular logic doesn't work friend. Scourge is only impressive because of his experience but we all know that experience isn't exactly perfect for accurately scaling skill as we can clearly see with Vitiate/Valkorian.

We know they're above them but we don't know how far above them they would be. Then provide the quotes or I won't be able to change my stance.

Why? To both statements.

A quote which only refers to their era.

You didn't respond to the third part of that. If Vitiate was temple busting level on a DS nexus that means he could amp himself to around POD Bane's physical levels but that doesn't mean he'd be as skilled. Are there any skill feats for Vitiate at this point in time aside from having his lightsaber knocked out of his hand by a lightsaber throw?

I'm going to need a video/quote or some form of evidence that the HoT killed Revan cause that's news to me.

We don't know the circumstances of their fight though right?

Fair enough.

Actually you're dead wrong.

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111114474/3823239-maul+and+savage+vs+jedi2.jpg

Why? Whatever strength disparity between them would be mitigated because of that. It's not like he's hammering away at a Makashi specialist who is specifically weak against strength based fighters.

Wrong yet again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tbnBw6X3AU

Can you learn how to ****ing quote?

Nah.