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How would you rank these trans-Vader combatants?

1. Force
2. Sabers
3. All-out

Krayt.

Rank them, pleb

I'll throw my lot in with Krayt here.

1. Composite Krayt
2/3: Noveltiate/Plagueis
2/3: Noveltiate/Plagueis
4/5: Kun/Caedus
4/5: Kun/Caedus

mmm

Force:

Plagueis
Krayt
Caedus/Novel Vitiate
Kun

Sabers:

Plagueis/Caedus
Krayt
Kun
Novel Vitiate

All-out:

Plagueis
Caedus/Krayt
Novel Vitiate
Kun

Eww.

Whats Krayt done in the Force thats that impressive?

Drain Abeloth and Luke, punch holes through Abeloth, tank one of Abeloth's force waves alongside Luke, be implied as Luke's equal/opposite on the Throne of Balance, be far more powerful than the likes of Wyyrlok in lightning and telekinesis prior to being Reborn, Dark Tranfer, etc.

I don't think he's implied to be as powerful as Luke, and IIRC Luke was doing most of the work, but yeah I think his Force feats are more impressive than Caedus's.

Well, not only did he drain Abeloth, but he was tanking her ridiculously chaotic and corrosive energies in the process. The dude's insanely strong in the force and a goddamn tank to boot.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Eww.

In the Force, Plagueis's feats, accolades and cosmological importance/threat are the greatest. This guy can not only vaporize squads of armored soldiers with uncharged telekinesis, but literally threatened and unbalanced the Force itself. Krayt comes next from all the things you mentioned. Caedus/novel Vitiate is unclear, with Caedus competing mainly through powerscaling. Kun comes last as he's implied along with the other ancients to be weaker than Vitiate.

In sabers, Plagueis was a match for TPM Sidious, whereas Caedus injured Luke; it's a wash between them. Krayt comes next as he's probably above Kun through his massive advantage in the Force. Vitiate is obviously last.

In all-out, Plagueis wins if you add everything up, Krayt vs. Caedus is probably a toss-up, Vitiate comes next through his lack of melee feats but still overtakes Kun via his sheer power.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
mmm

Force:

Plagueis
Krayt
Caedus/Novel Vitiate
Kun

Sabers:

Plagueis/Caedus
Krayt
Kun
Novel Vitiate

All-out:

Plagueis
Caedus/Krayt
Novel Vitiate
Kun
Agreed apart from sabers
Caedus is better than plagueis in that regard and krayt could probably give plagueis a run for his money

I'm not sure Plagueis's Maladian feat is up to snuff with punching holes through Abeloth, draining/tanking Abeloth's corrosive energies, tanking one of Abeloth's force waves, draining Luke, etc.

In terms of implication, Krayt had a force presence akin to Darth Vader, who in turn was sensed as far more powerful than Kar Vastor, who in turn was compared to Yoda/Anakin in his raw force power. Plus Caedus was pretty frightened of Krayt.

Threatening the balance of the force was:

1. Done with Sidious helping
2. In a meditative trance/ritual over the course of months
3. Involved no direct retaliation by the force, like boiling their midichlorians as Plagueis mused.

And it's not like Krayt in Apocalypse wasn't cosmically relevant to the force, he basically acted as The Son.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I'm not sure Plagueis's Maladian feat is up to snuff with punching holes through Abeloth,

There's no indication that Abeloth's avatars are super-hard.



What does this mean?



Does he? In either case, this was an avatar Abeloth being weakened by fighting multiple places simultaneously and dying in said multiple places, and one who also had to deal with/guard against Luke.

I mean, Saba was doing well against some of the avatars. Even Boba Fett and Tahiri were, lmao.



More like using Force drain on a Luke who was wrestling with Abeloth over an extended period of time and still not really doing much.



Vader was sensed to be far more powerful than Vastor by a guy who was barely Force sensitive.

Also, you're kind of conceding your argument if you think Krayt is "akin" to Darth Vader. Caedus is clearly far more powerful than Vader, not only by the blurb but also by his performance against Luke, whereas Luke 40 years earlier was already matching Vader. Plagueis is clearly stronger than Vader because he's a match for TPM Sidious, and TPM Sidious has to be more powerful than Vader because the idea is that Vader can't catch up to him - if RotJ Vader were already comparable to the 50 or so year old TPM Sidious, he would've had hope of matching him in potential.



True, but still. Cut it in half and it's still really impressive. I mean Krayt was doing all those things against Abeloth with Luke and the entire Jedi/Lost Tribe orders helping.



It's still something no other Sith has ever accomplished.



But Plagueis and Sidious both thought they would be able to handle it.



lol so did Ben and Vestara.


Plagueis also altered seasonal patterns just by setting foot on a planet. He's pretty powerful.

plagueis > kun > vitiate > caedus > krayt

Krayt punching holes in Abeloth isn't a physical feat, it's a power feat. They were fighting in a spirit realm of sorts, so he was essentially smashing his force energies into hers.

Originally posted by diomiosio123
plagueis > kun > vitiate > caedus > krayt

Vitiate.
Kun.
Vitiate.

Vitiate
Exar Kun.
Plagueis
Caedus
Krayt

Vitiate goes to town on these plebs.

Nah, Krayt's Supreme

Nah. Krayt's on par with Revan.

Kek

Do you still want a post for Revan v. Kun, or have you conceded to that in our Hangout discussion?

lol nobody conceded anything, but your fabled Revan v. Kun post is beginning to look more and more like a Loch Ness tbh.

I have sort of lowered my estimate of Kun's powers, no thanks to you, but if you do reply, I'll still argue the sake.

You explicitly said "thanks for the Durron wank" after not having any response to the argument I crafted.

Sounds like it was because of me, rofl.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You explicitly said "thanks for the Durron wank" after not having any response to the argument I crafted.


Do I have permission to go through the hangout and find every argument I made that you didn't respond to in a Google Chat? Please say yes, please say yes...

Well, given your publisher statement mixup, you'll probably try to take the double standard and run with it using some random, arbitrary distinction, lol.



I know your self-perceived ability rivals Gideon's, but nah.

Difference is you seemed pretty defeated about the topic. And now that you conveniently lowered Kun during the same span of time, it seems pretty obvious what happened.

But it's alright. We'll pretend you had an enlightenment, completely independent to any conversation we had on Kun, during that short amount of time.

More importantly: do you still have Kun above Revan, or nah?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Difference is you seemed pretty defeated about the topic.

> runs away from a debate for a month
> boasts about his career-ending reply every few days
> sets seven deadlines for when he'll reply
> lies about having started/almost finished it



>> claims that he's won despite not having posted a response


KEK

This and your Publisher-quote fiasco are really providing my day with a huge dose of amusement. Keep going.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

More importantly: do you still have Kun above Revan, or nah?

I have lots of people above Revan, so yeah. Not sure about peak Vader vs. Kun.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate goes to town on these plebs.

You conceded this though. Plagueis > Vitiate.

Who is gideon that you seem to love ellimist?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nah. Krayt's on par with Revan.

Since when did you ever believe Novel Vitiate would go to town on Revan?

Not that Composite Krayt isn't above Revan.

I maintain that Krayt has an edge over SOR Revan, yeah.

I don't think DT would be sufficient enough in overcoming Revan's Sion card, although it would be interesting to see how they would stack up.

Hmm, I never considered that but Revan probably could survive DT with his zombie powers.

I think Ant was talking about them both being zombies, Revan through means of BS, and Krayt through means of DT.

Regardless, if DT couldn't kill Revan, it would certainly end the fight.

Revan was ready to fight again only a minute after being defeated by the coalition strike force on Yavin IV.

A minute? Damn, decapitation takes too long. Revan might win this one. mmm

The minute being a minute long conversation between Revan and spirit Revan.

Darth Sion can rise again in seconds without pressing concerns.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Regardless, if DT couldn't kill Revan, it would certainly end the fight.

Teleportation if Darth Krayt gets too close? Seems like another easy way for Revan to counter it.

Eh? Sounds like an NLF. I mean, if we're assuming they're in character/morals on, I doubt Revan can or would pull that everytime Krayt gets close.

Now if you're arguing that Krayt won't get close at all, that would imply Krayt isn't just as, (imo more) powerful than Revan and capable enough to close the gap, especially if you're considering game mechanics, (Revan seems to get up close and personal/use his light saber skill a lot more in SOR than, say, in the Revan Novel or on the Foundry).

Well, I'm not confident Darth Krayt can use Dark Transfer without getting his hand through an opponent's defenses. Otherwise he would be sliced up.

Revan's lightsaber prowess, especially considering precognition, should be sufficient enough to keep Darth Krayt from piercing through his guard.

In a scenario where Darth Krayt does get through, which would be rare, Revan should be fast enough to teleport away to safety several meters away.

Or, at the very least, Revan's willpower should be sufficient enough to withstand the Dark Transfer for enough seconds to then be teleported away.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

Darth Sion can rise again in seconds without pressing concerns.

Revan isn't Sion, and whether or not Sion can keep that up off-nexus is questionable to begin with.

You yourself said that Revan was a better version of Sion, tbf.

1. Agreed, though he can certainly accomplish such.

2. Eh? While Revan's undoubtedly an excellent swordsman, Asharad Hett was putting AoTC-era Anakin on his ass and landing physical blows on Obi Wan Kenobi, obviously waaaaaaay before he reached his peak. While the former is no Revan and Hett ultimately lost the latter conflict, I think it's reasonable to assume Krayt at his peak can break through Revan's guard in lightsaber combat.

3/4: Which, as I mentioned in the previous post, is an NLF, at least by the way you're making it sound.

I said that in a thematic sense, Revan is the embodiment of everything special in his era; he inherited it all. In that way, I related his will-powered zombie-like return from the nigh-grave to Sion; I didn't say I was behind the idea that Revan could endure more than Sion. Nor have I ever been behind the idea that Sion truly couldn't be stopped without his consent in the first place.

Probably Plagueis at the top, followed shortly by Novel Vitiate. Krayt, Kun and Caedus are basically tied for next place. Krayt's probably a tad more powerful than the other two.

1. Novel Vitiate
2. Caedus
3. Plagueis
4. Krayt
5. Kun

Plagueis.
Vitiate/Kun.
Krayt.
Caedus.

Bump

Sabers:
Caedus/Plagueis
Krayt/Kun
Vitate

Force:
Plagueis
Krayt
Vitate
Caedus
Kun

Overall:
Plagueis
Krayt/Caedus/Vitate(?)
Kun

Plagueis and Krayt above Vitiate in the Force? Shamefur dispray.

Krayt>Novel Vitate is debatable, Plagueis not.

Plagueis.

Plagueis is #1. Not sure where Caedus ranks, but Exar and Krayt are > novel Vitiate.

Either Plagueis or Vitiate would take this.