Apocalypse vs Sebastian Shaw

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Tattoos N Scars
They fight on the beach as shown in First Class. Who wins?

KingD19
Apocalypse. Shaw's powers won't get through his forcefield. And Apocalypse can just phase his skull into the ground.

Darkstorm Zero
Agreed. Shaw's power is absorbing kinetic energy. Apoc's mental powers, and ability to rearrange atomic structures easily bypasses Shaw's defenses.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Agreed. Shaw's power is absorbing kinetic energy. Apoc's mental powers, and ability to rearrange atomic structures easily bypasses Shaw's defenses.

thumb up

Darth Thor
Yep Apoc has a lot more than just physical force. Remember how easily he killed those workers Eric wanted to kill? I didn't see any physical force involved there IIRC.

Plus remember how Shaw was shit scared of Xavier.

Utrigita
Apocalypse for the easy win.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Agreed. Shaw's power is absorbing kinetic energy. Apoc's mental powers, and ability to rearrange atomic structures easily bypasses Shaw's defenses.

How is Apoc mental powers going to hurt Shaw when Charles could barley control him?

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
How is Apoc mental powers going to hurt Shaw when Charles could barley control him?

It was because of Xavier's power that Shaw was easily killed by Erik, And remember, Charles was young and fairly untrained compared to his current and future iterations at that time. It wasn't until DOFP that Xavier got over a huge limitation of himself.

Time-Immemorial
Shaw can resist Apoc TP, this would not even be hard for him.

Charles was at his most power in that movie. He was weaker in the second movie.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Shaw can resist Apoc TP, this would not even be hard for him.

Charles was at his most power in that movie. He was weaker in the second movie.

Ummm.... Not without the helmet he's not. Apoc is actually the better TP guy when fighting individual targets. Only Phoenix beats him out, because in the Psionic plane, Apoc was royally pushing in Xavier's shit.

Time-Immemorial
Im saying Apocs TP would be shrugged off by Shaw.

Shaw is was more evil then Apoc and much more cunning.

Estacado
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Im saying Apocs TP would be shrugged off by Apoc.


thumb up

Great theory.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Im saying Apocs TP would be shrugged off by Apoc.

Shaw is was more evil then Apoc and much more cunning.

How? Shaw wasn't that strong, psyonically, and he had some training from Emma frost, but he had no psychic abilities of his own.

And, how do you come to that conclusion? Shaw's goal was basically the same as Erik's became later, the rule of mutants. En Saban Nur is the Rule of the Strong. Mutant, human, or otherwise. Only the strong would find a way to survive Apocalypse. And, since Apoc had powers Shaw would onnly be able to wet dream about, he had the capacity of carrying out his threat without starting a war. Apoc was going to wipe the slate clean without sparking WW3.

Time-Immemorial
He was extreamly strong, Xavier said so himself.

"He is extreamly strong, I dont know how long I can control him."

Mind you this is from the worlds strongest TP.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He was extreamly strong, Xavier said so himself.

"He is extreamly strong, I dont know how long I can control him."

Mind you this is from the worlds strongest TP.

Not denying that at the time, Shaw probably was among the strongest Xavier ever tried to freeze. But, at the same time, Xavier was younger, less experienced and not as confident of his power back then.

Then, you have the lines he spoke when Apoc jacked him through Erik and Cerebro.

"I have never felt a power like this before!" he said as he looked like he was simultaneously pissing himself and having a heart attack.

KingD19
Who was far weaker in the 1st movie. He's extremely more powerful now as in the movie it took everything he had to hold 2 guys still. In Apocalypse he froze at least an entire floor of the CIA quite casually.

Time-Immemorial
I dont think Apoc can take over his mind. He could not even control this minions.

Much less Shaw.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Not denying that at the time, Shaw probably was among the strongest Xavier ever tried to freeze. But, at the same time, Xavier was younger, less experienced and not as confident of his power back then.

Then, you have the lines he spoke when Apoc jacked him through Erik and Cerebro.

"I have never felt a power like this before!" he said as he looked like he was simultaneously pissing himself and having a heart attack.

Yes he is more powerful with cerebro, I never said he was not.

Lets stick to OP.

How is Apoc mind raping Shaw?

carver9
This isn't a fight at all. Apocalypse stomps.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I dont think Apoc can take over his mind. He could not even control this minions.

Much less Shaw.

But he did to an extent. He only lost control of them during the exchange when he was completely distracted. he was fending of no less than 5 full on assaults, which became 6, and 2 of them took place on the psionic plane. Kinda hard for anyone to expect someone of Apoc's telepathy, which is singularly focust, to maintain control during a TP onslaught by 2 of the series most powerful Telepaths.

The fact that Shaw was frozen at all by Xavier, while Apoc was resoundingly mentally beating the shit out of an older, wiser, more experienced, and more powerful version of the same dude instantly tells me who would win in a clash of the minds between Shaw and Apoc.

Time-Immemorial
Apoc wins in a fight, but not a TP fight. People need to cut the crap with this TP wanking.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Apoc wins in a fight, but not a TP fight. People need to cut the crap with this TP wanking.

TI... Hold on dude... You didn't even look at my post. Why would a dude who is strong enough to EVENTUALLY power out of Xavier's psionic grip in an unspecified arbitrary timeframe somehow win against a being who not only instantly could break Xavier's psionic abilities, but also successfully reverse jack the same guy (A more powerful, older, smarter, wiser, and more experienced version of the guy no less) who even held Shaw at all in the first place?

I am not understanding what point you are trying to make here... And I'm trying real hard here.

Time-Immemorial
I was responding to carver with that post.

KingD19
Shaw has no mental defense. Nor can he resist being phased into the ground, which would kill him and there's no energy transfer for Shaw to absorb.

Time-Immemorial
He has no mental defense against Xavier as he is the most powerful TP there is besides Jean, but he can resist very much so as Xavier said he would not be able to hold him for long.

Jean>>>>>Xavier TP>>>>>>Apoc limited version.

Apoc cannot control him.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He has no mental defense against Xavier, but he can resist very much so.

Apoc cannot control him.

He can freeze him perhaps even better than Xavier did tho. But that's not Apoc's usual style. Unless Shaw has a huge backlog of stored energy, he is a regular dude who can tank a shitload of kinetic energy damage. He isn't fast or strong when unpowered, but if Apoc physically punches the dude, he would absorb energy from that blow.

That said, TP, and transmutation/mattter manip are the ways in which Apoc dominates this fight. Since Shaw is a mutant, Apoc is going to know immediately what makes him tick, TP or not. Once Apoc knows what Shaw's power is, which is damn near instantaneous, then the fight is over, because Apoc has the tools to shut this fight right down into the ground, with Shaw's brain.

Time-Immemorial
Who did Apoc freeze with TP?

Now you are making it sound like

Apoc>>>Xavier which was not the case.

Xavier TP>>Apoc TP

I already said

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Apoc wins in a fight, but not a TP fight. People need to cut the crap with this TP wanking.

Also he can absorb more then just Kinetic energy. That much was shown.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Who did Apoc freeze with TP?

Now you are making it sound like

Apoc>>>Xavier which was not the case.

Xavier TP>>Apoc TP

I already said

Who said Apoc froze anyone with TP. Apoc did worse. He remote hacked Xavier, the guy who legit DID freeze people. So, in terms of TP Powerwise, Apoc has the edge over anyone bar Phoenix, while rangewise, Xavier beats out Apoc, hence why Apoc desired Xavier's power to bolster his own. The proof is in the powerscaling in the quote below.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
TI... Hold on dude... You didn't even look at my post. Why would a dude who is strong enough to EVENTUALLY power out of Xavier's psionic grip in an unspecified arbitrary timeframe somehow win against a being who not only instantly could break Xavier's psionic abilities, but also successfully reverse jack the same guy (A more powerful, older, smarter, wiser, and more experienced version of the guy no less) who even held Shaw at all in the first place?

I am not understanding what point you are trying to make here... And I'm trying real hard here.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Also he can absorb more then just Kinetic energy. That much was shown.

The only other thing he absorbed was the brief flare of a grenade... But that isn't going to change anything.

KingD19
You keep ignoring how that was the weakest onscreen version of Xavier that barely stopped Shaw. The version from Apocalypse was tons more powerful. And Apocalypse constantly mentally overpowered him.

Time-Immemorial
I guess we have a difference of opinion. I dont see shaw being overpowered by Apoc on TP.

Also he has his TP helmet.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero




The only other thing he absorbed was the brief flare of a grenade... But that isn't going to change anything.

No that is not the only thing he absorbed..

TU0d2oZh5JY

He also absorbed Havok/Summers blasts.

3Gzn7v7EpUc

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I guess we have a difference of opinion. I dont see shaw being overpowered by Apoc on TP.

Also he has his TP helmet.

My point is, if Apoc can psychically screw over a more powerful Xavier, who when he was younger and weaker managed to psychically screw Shaw over long enough for Erik to kill him slow with a coin, then i don't see the contest here.

As for Shaw's helmet... It gets demolecularised just as fast as Apoc creates one in the movie out of nothing.

In this fight... There is literally nothing Shaw can do to Apoc that Apoc cannot counter with trivial ease.

Time-Immemorial
Ok you changed my mind after thinking about this some more.

Good on you.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
No that is not the only thing he absorbed..

TU0d2oZh5JY

He also absorbed Havok/Summers blasts.

3Gzn7v7EpUc

Heh stick out tongue Ok, I'll admit it, I completely forgot about the rocket and Alex's splasma blast. My bad.

That being said... I have to say, it still won't protect Shaw from Apoc's powers. Apoc's not throwing out energy blasts here.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Ok you changed my mind after thinking about this some more.

Good on you.

Ok, Thanks, you did well tho, picking something up that I had forgotten. Should refresh my First Class viewing... >.> :P

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Heh stick out tongue Ok, I'll admit it, I completely forgot about the rocket and Alex's splasma blast. My bad.

That being said... I have to say, it still won't protect Shaw from Apoc's powers. Apoc's not throwing out energy blasts here.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Ok you changed my mind after thinking about this some more.

Good on you.

Cheers

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Cheers

Edited. You too big grin

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.