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1. Force
2. Sabers
3. All-out

Neutral setting.

Avellone stated Darth Revan would "kick the Exile's ass" in a lightsabers-only match up.

Darth Malak was capable of pushing Darth Revan onto the brink of desperation when they fought.

Put the pieces together and you'll find Darth Malak, especially in his peak, absolutely eviscerating Surik.

But does that include his star forge amp?

No. Darth Malak didn't start amplifying his powers that way until once he betrayed Revan.

When did an unamped Malak push Revan to the brink of desperation?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
When did an unamped Malak push Revan to the brink of desperation?

Would like to know this as well tbh.

They fought on Darth Revan's flagship. The fight ended with Darth Malak losing his jaw.

Malak was the inferior, but pressing Revan is beyond the Exile's abilities, thus why Malak wins here.

For context, a short time after the two fought, Bastila Shan and the Jedi ambushed the Sith.

Where does it say Malak presses Revan?

"Malak's most distinguishing feature, his steel jaw, disguises a vicious lightsaber wound inflicted by his former Master in their desperate final battle."

―Star Wars Insider 88: Virtual Sith

Lol that's a lot more ambiguous than you were letting on.

You don't know if Revan was desperate. Malak could have been the one freaking out. He probably was, since he lost, and then lost again with a star forge amp, and you don't think the gap between the Revan's is that large.

Last time I checked, "their" refers to two people. If only one was desperate, it wouldn't be "their desperate final battle," but "Malak's desperate final battle."

Desperate modifies battle, not their. Desperate battle doesn't necessarily mean closely matched - it could mean high stakes, or it could mean Malak was getting desperate and so the battle is generally (not sure about whether the grammar would work), etc.

And yeah it uses their, because they're both in the battle, and it would be awkward but semantically equivalent to repeat Malak.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
it could mean high stakes.
No it couldn't?

>Uses Avellone's opinion on Darth Revan.
>Darth Revan in Avellone's book is on the level of the True Sith, a concept Avellone never fleshed out, a concept where Sith are wrecking galaxies 4 tuh lolz.
>Ignores Drew Karpyshyn stating Meetra Surik is probably more skilled than Revan in an official work.

>Ignores Karpyshyn back-tracking and saying he doesn't know and that it would go down to circumstance, which he says for everything.

>Decides to immediately handwave everything Drew Karpyshyn said.

Avellone's clearly referring to Revan by the end of the first game, since that was the only reference for Revan when KotOR II was made, as Darth Revan was not well expanded upon at the time and Insider #88 was released well after both games (that's where Malak's duel with Revan was described as "desperate".

Anyway, as I said, Avellone is referring to Revan by the end of KotOR, not Sith Lord Revan. And by the end of KotoR, Revan would "kick Malak's ass" as well - he defeated Malak decisively on an extremely potent DS nexus when Malak had the luxury of draining his captive Jedi's life forces while Revan had to fight through innumerable droids and Dark Jedi as well as Bastila, who kept coming back. That implies that under neutral circumstances, Revan would absolutely butcher Malak.

And I'm not sure Avellone is in the same world as the rest of us when it comes to assessing Revan's power. He thinks that Revan stands up to various ancient Sith who can shape stars and galaxies. He directly contradicts Karpyshyn, the original author/creator of Revan and most recent author of Meetra Surik (other than her ghost appearance in TOR), who obviously thinks that a saber duel between the two would be close and not one-sided, not to mention even entertaining the notion that Surik could be more skilled than him.

Sure, I don't agree with that, but I'm dismissing both Karpyshyn and Avellone's quotes because they're both idiots, not cherry-picking which quotes fit my agenda or not. Suggesting that Malak would eviscerate Surik is hilarious. If Malak wins, it's close, and honestly, I'm not even fully convinced that he would.

Originally posted by AncientPower
>Uses Avellone's opinion on Darth Revan.
>Darth Revan in Avellone's book is on the level of the True Sith, a concept Avellone never fleshed out, a concept where Sith are wrecking galaxies 4 tuh lolz.
>Ignores Drew Karpyshyn stating Meetra Surik is probably more skilled than Revan in an official work.



I love that after all these years he still can't form a competent argument for this, that isn't based around non-canon author quotes, and even then he has to cherry pick.

Well they're both canonically better duelists than Revan
But srsly, the Exile wins.

http://i.imgur.com/zp6L2VW.png?1

Nah Ant's pretty right about this one. Drew said Meetra was "probably" more skilled than Revan, which already has a sketchy ass qualifier of its own attached, prior to spending the next paragraph talking about how he can't definitively answer versus questions.

Furthermore, it's very clear that Drew was only referring technical skill regardless, which wouldn't take into account physical capabilities, cunning, experience, tactical foresight, or really the Force itself (which I hardly need to explain plays a massive role in dueling).

I forgot Sel's name is Carys

Originally posted by Emperordmb
http://i.imgur.com/zp6L2VW.png?1

Nah Ant's pretty right about this one. Drew said Meetra was "probably" more skilled than Revan, which already has a sketchy ass qualifier of its own attached, prior to spending the next paragraph talking about how he can't definitively answer versus questions.

Furthermore, it's very clear that Drew was only referring technical skill regardless, which wouldn't take into account physical capabilities, cunning, experience, tactical foresight, or really the Force itself (which I hardly need to explain plays a massive role in dueling).
Of course, Malak has all that raw power at his disposal, especially unamped that we must consider. Not everybody can lose as badly as him. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/3024136639.gif

Exile wins.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Of course, Malak has all that raw power at his disposal, especially unamped that we must consider. Not everybody can lose as badly as him. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/3024136639.gif

Didn't you know, man? Malak is more powerful than Nihilus. Kotor Revan was more powerful than anyone Meetra had seen and Malak 100% made the superior Darth Revan desperate, so Malak is obviously > planet level.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
>Ignores Karpyshyn back-tracking and saying he doesn't know and that it would go down to circumstance, which he says for everything. Yet Avellone is somehow in possession of the gospel truth.