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Much has been said about feats from TFU or the old Clone Wars microseries. It occurs to me that Force & Destiny, a Legends source, indicates we should take feats and exploits from pre-movie era Jedi and Sith with a grain of salt as well. The book even goes so far as to include an out-of-universe instruction to Game Masters and players that such things shouldn't be treated as truth.

Discuss.

I suggest that one has to be a pussy to rely on gay Legends feats, therefore feats are gay and not allowed, unless one is a pussy.

Are legends feats reliable? Yes

/close thread

ILS, it would be cool to hear your take on it as well.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Are legends feats reliable? Yes

/close thread

F&D says otherwise. Not saying I agree with it, of course.

Doesn't apply to TFU, Wankatine, or EU Luke though.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
ILS, it would be cool to hear your take on it as well.



F&D says otherwise. Not saying I agree with it, of course. Oh I thought you meant the user.

Well, feats suck. And this book confirms they suck.

Per the wording, it seems only to apply to pre-movie era characters, intriguingly enough.

Luke moved a black hole

/

No

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Per the wording, it seems only to apply to pre-movie era characters, intriguingly enough. I don't get how this translates. Does this take all pre movie eu feats in books and games and retcons them? How can they say something us an exaggeration if a force power is seen on scream or described in perfect details in a book?

This isn't new. It's basically just reiterating the "foggy window" quote from years back.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
I don't get how this translates. Does this take all pre movie eu feats in books and games and retcons them? How can they say something us an exaggeration if a force power is seen on scream or described in perfect details in a book?

Because it's saying the "screen" and "book" are legends themselves.

Originally posted by ares834
This isn't new. It's basically just reiterating the "foggy window" quote from years back.

Yeah, I know it's not new. But there's been much said by the likes of Neph and Ant about the accuracy of TFU feats and OCW feats. This indicates that a similar discussion should be had about pre-movie era feats and exploits.

Well at the end of the day the EU has been decanonised, and only continues to exist in SW continuity as "legends" in a literal sense. So it might have happened but may not have, and we don't know until that gets confirmed by a Canon source.

However in order to properly discuss Legends material, I operate under the assumption that it accurate until proven otherwise, the alternative is to arbitrarily assume what is and what is not accurate, when in most cases we'll never get confirmation, and even if we do, we'll still debate disproven legends material anyway...

^^EDIT: Though given thought an entirely different approach may be needed. I think the TES model might be an interesting way of going about things here. mmm

Tes?

The Elder Scrolls, which its my understanding is that everything is "canon" even if there are contradictions.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well at the end of the day the EU has been decanonised, and only continues to exist in SW continuity as "legends" in a literal sense. So it might have happened but may not have, and we don't know until that gets confirmed by a Canon source.

However in order to properly discuss Legends material, I operate under the assumption that it accurate until proven otherwise, the alternative is to arbitrarily assume what is and what is not accurate, when in most cases we'll never get confirmation, and even if we do, we'll still debate disproven legends material anyway...

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The Elder Scrolls, which its my understanding is that everything is "canon" even if there are contradictions.

Very good.

Speaking of which, SKILLZ, have you read the ultimate piece of ES lore? You might be ready.

I have not read it. PM me.

I lied, by the way. You weren't ready. You never could have been. It's impossible to be ready for that.

You're going to have to explain literally all of that, because I straight up couldn't comprehend it.

Skillz send nudes?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You're going to have to explain literally all of that, because I straight up couldn't comprehend it.
Ask again when you understand.

Remember when I said Elder Scrolls was weird and ****ed up? Scratch that.

Just Kidding. It's even worse than I, or anyone, thought possible.

You were always weak. uhuh

I literally can't even...

We are diving into pure TELEVISION FOAM here.

Watch out for those TELEVISION SET HEADS.

But it's only $19.95!

I am ninja-killing all these ninjas with tonal power!

My god...

It's full of...COMMERCIALS!

YOU JUST WANTED TO WIN, DIDN'T YOU?!

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
MUST AN HERO/RO/RO/RO.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc520/G1d3on91/legends%20conceit_zpsm9weeiy1.png

Much has been said about feats from TFU or the old Clone Wars microseries. It occurs to me that Force & Destiny, a Legends source, indicates we should take feats and exploits from pre-movie era Jedi and Sith with a grain of salt as well. The book even goes so far as to include an out-of-universe instruction to Game Masters and players that such things shouldn't be treated as truth.

Discuss.

So First of ALL CALM THE **** DOWN.

Thank.

When someone tell you Tulak hord pull a ship out of the sky and you can see a crashed ship were it was supposed to happen yhea, you do not say ho that ship have been gundown by some random turbolasers... this could true....

And working with obscur old sith character you would fin yourself in a realm of specualtion,because there is feat that seem reliable that could be wrong or teh reverse... There is a big part of incerttitude... And V.S series guy do not like that.. They do not like working with incerttittude...

And this why I think that many V.S series dues are wrong and teh matter.. At the fact they only consider greatest in raw power, and eventually if you are lucky skill...

For KotOR lore fan, contradiction are very common, when you try to face or solve a puzzles.... You have very few information about the facts... But to us it is still solvable, there is a story.... Most V.S forum and wiki book worm will often tell you that it like there is no story or background in KotOR... When the true story in KotOR happen offscreen... To them if the author do tell us the truth or do not confirm any idea, it is not to keep the mystery... Let us search, it is because all of that shit is non canon fan-fic garbage, when it is actually a puzzle set by the author

By the way KotOR events are like a legend, it is an hudge part of the SW history... And it is treated with in lore point of view... This why I mention them...

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's full of...COMMERCIALS! Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
YOU JUST WANTED TO WIN, DIDN'T YOU?! Their gone, we've lost them.

I revealed the truth of ES to ILS as well. It's so goddamn cool, but so goddamn ****ed up.

ILS wasn't ready. He was already insane as it was.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Watch out for those TELEVISION SET HEADS.

But it's only $19.95!

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Their gone, we've lost them.

InFACKINGdeed my friend infockingdeed.

But I'd like you to take a look at KotOR lore and Revan story, it is a legend, but we know that it did happen unlike many legend... It is the legend but it is also historicly accurate, but enough to agree at 100% about all what is said about it.

Finding Darth Revan feats is pretty hard but not impossible. Just try.... KotOR is an amazing material for speculation theories and all that since it is designed for you to think and make theories...

Toplel

If You want to know how to treat feat that come from old legend, try to do so with some more recent legend.. Like KotOR or instance.... This my advice.. And Jensaarai/Grey Jedi understood it. The way that Obsidian entertainement learn them to think.. They use that...

So, in other words, drop down on your knees and don't forget to breathe for Revan.

Or Kreia or some other characters..Or the historian in the library... Character focused on the past..

But I will not advise to go for the old sith lord without going through KotOR since many other media talking about them appeared in a response to KotOR...

Mostly old legend within the star wars universe occured before KotOR.... So you will have to go through KotOR anyway, because as I'm trying tp tel you some pre-KotOR lore are here thank to KotOR.

But before touching some old legend stuff try to solve some mysteries like.. who is Aren Kae and thing like that... Who re-activated the HK-50 factory...? Yhea just try to solve that mystery...

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yeah, I know it's not new.


Your handling of the source material so far implies that you didn't.



Operating under the "foggy window" premise, every "feat" from the source material (except the movies and - nowadays - the Clone Wars show) can be questioned.

And this has and always had to be the case, given the rather huge differences between use of the Force in the movies / tv show and the EU source-material. Not only because EU only characters appear to be almost godlike compared to the "movie / tv character", but some of the latter also displayed abilities that appeared to be beyond their "movie selves". This is, in fact, nothing but a declaration that only "Disney canon" is to be considered as "canonical truth".

However. Where is the point here? Either you utilize suspension of disbelief in order to include EU / Legends feats in your arguments or you have to stick to "Disney Canon" characters limited to their Disney Canon Feats because everything else is "unrelieable".

Originally posted by Revanchiste
Or Kreia or some other characters..Or the historian in the library... Character focused on the past..

But I will not advise to go for the old sith lord without going through KotOR since many other media talking about them appeared in a response to KotOR...

Mostly old legend within the star wars universe occured before KotOR.... So you will have to go through KotOR anyway, because as I'm trying tp tel you some pre-KotOR lore are here thank to KotOR.

But before touching some old legend stuff try to solve some mysteries like.. who is Aren Kae and thing like that... Who re-activated the HK-50 factory...? Yhea just try to solve that mystery...
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
So, in other words, drop down on your knees and don't forget to breathe for Revan.

You really aren't disagreeing with the above statement. Thought you should know.

Originally posted by Nai
Your handling of the source material so far implies that you didn't.



Operating under the "foggy window" premise, every "feat" from the source material (except the movies and - nowadays - the Clone Wars show) can be questioned.

And this has and always had to be the case, given the rather huge differences between use of the Force in the movies / tv show and the EU source-material. Not only because EU only characters appear to be almost godlike compared to the "movie / tv character", but some of the latter also displayed abilities that appeared to be beyond their "movie selves". This is, in fact, nothing but a declaration that only "Disney canon" is to be considered as "canonical truth".

However. Where is the point here? Either you utilize suspension of disbelief in order to include EU / Legends feats in your arguments or you have to stick to "Disney Canon" characters limited to their Disney Canon Feats because everything else is "unrelieable".

Gideon and Ares gave Advent shit about the foggy window quote 8 years or so ago. I know it's nothing new. But as you say: suspension of disbelief.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Gideon and Ares gave Advent shit about the foggy window quote 8 years or so ago. I know it's nothing new. But as you say: suspension of disbelief.

Yes. Because Gideon and Ares weren't as clever as Advent was.

You see. The problem with "suspension of disbelief" is, that it works rather well when you just read fiction for yourself.

It becomes a more complex issue in the context of a versus forum. Because there, you're suddenly trying to win debates based on arguments referring to (possibly inaccurate) representations of events that (might have) happened in a fictional realm. And you need people to believe in your interpretations of the stuff that you believe has happened, in order to "beat" them in a debate. While they stick to their interpretations of things that they believe have happend and they think are more impressive than other stuff that might have happened in the way the sources have depicted it - or not.

This is why nobody will change his opinion here. There is no necessity to do so, because in the end all boils down to your personal interpretation of what the source material gives you. It's a matter of taste.

And maybe now you can finally grasp the idea, that I'm not following any "agenda" here that is aimed at the relative ranking of characters. Because it is futile. And...

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/because_im_clever_david_tennant.gif

Originally posted by Nai
Yes. Because Gideon and Ares weren't as clever as Advent was.

You see. The problem with "suspension of disbelief" is, that it works rather well when you just read fiction for yourself.

It becomes a more complex issue in the context of a versus forum. Because there, you're suddenly trying to win debates based on arguments referring to (possibly inaccurate) representations of events that (might have) happened in a fictional realm. And you need people to believe in your interpretations of the stuff that you believe has happened, in order to "beat" them in a debate. While they stick to their interpretations of things that they believe have happend and they think are more impressive than other stuff that might have happened in the way the sources have depicted it - or not.

This is why nobody will change his opinion here. There is no necessity to do so, because in the end all boils down to your personal interpretation of what the source material gives you. It's a matter of taste.

And maybe now you can finally grasp the idea, that I'm not following any "agenda" here that is aimed at the relative ranking of characters. Because it is futile. And...

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/because_im_clever_david_tennant.gif

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/trollpasta/images/4/4a/Cool_story_bro_tell_it_again.jpg

Nah, you're full of shit. Your agenda has almost always favored ancient Sith over Sheev and you've got the posting history to prove it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/trollpasta/images/4/4a/Cool_story_bro_tell_it_again.jpg

Nah, you're full of shit. Your agenda has almost always favored ancient Sith over Sheev and you've got the posting history to prove it.

Is there any reason why you have stopped dealing with my arguments entirely and instead keep pointing to my posting history (or rather: your interpretation of it) where it is of absolutely no interest for this debate in particular?

It's pretty easy to determine who is "full of shit" here and - woah - it isn't me.

Originally posted by Nai
Is there any reason why you have stopped dealing with my arguments entirely and instead keep pointing to my posting history (or rather: your interpretation of it) where it is of absolutely no interest for this debate in particular?

It's pretty easy to determine who is "full of shit" here and - woah - it isn't me.

I read your contribution to this thread and I haven't decided to weigh in on it, just like I haven't decided to weigh in on Beni's on the first page.

As far as your posting history is concerned, you're the one who keeps bringing it up lol. I just reject your revisionist history bullshit.

tempest who could you possibly masturbate to?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/trollpasta/images/4/4a/Cool_story_bro_tell_it_again.jpg

Nah, you're full of shit. Your agenda has almost always favored ancient Sith over Sheev and you've got the posting history to prove it.
You don't have an 'agenda' here?

Originally posted by Revanchiste
So First of ALL CALM THE **** DOWN.

Thank.

When someone tell you Tulak hord pull a ship out of the sky and you can see a crashed ship were it was supposed to happen yhea, you do not say ho that ship have been gundown by some random turbolasers...

True but this is why context matters.

Tulak hord pulled a ship out of the sky. Okay, how? Did he just pull it down casually? Did he need to concentrate and meditate intensely so that while pulling it down he was vulnerable and any goon could slit his throat? Did he pass out from exhaustion afterwards? Did he use Sith amulets or rituals to bolster his power?

Details are important.

Originally posted by Nai
Yes. Because Gideon and Ares weren't as clever as Advent was.

You see. The problem with "suspension of disbelief" is, that it works rather well when you just read fiction for yourself.

It becomes a more complex issue in the context of a versus forum. Because there, you're suddenly trying to win debates based on arguments referring to (possibly inaccurate) representations of events that (might have) happened in a fictional realm. And you need people to believe in your interpretations of the stuff that you believe has happened, in order to "beat" them in a debate. While they stick to their interpretations of things that they believe have happend and they think are more impressive than other stuff that might have happened in the way the sources have depicted it - or not.

This is why nobody will change his opinion here. There is no necessity to do so, because in the end all boils down to your personal interpretation of what the source material gives you. It's a matter of taste.

And maybe now you can finally grasp the idea, that I'm not following any "agenda" here that is aimed at the relative ranking of characters. Because it is futile. And...

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/because_im_clever_david_tennant.gif

Lmfao that gif is golden