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Iceman at his full potential vs The Flashes separately.

1.Barry Allen

2.Wally West

3.Bart Allen

4. New 52 Flash

5. New 52 Kid Flash



All Pre-52 except mentioned versions. How many out of the these 5 can Bobby beat. No prep and no BFR.

They can beat him in several ways. Bfr is one way.

Can iceman not just revert to gas form as soon as he gets hit and then, with a thought, freeze their molecules

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Can iceman not just revert to gas form as soon as he gets hit and then, with a thought, freeze their molecules

Not with all of them. Speed steal ftw, Wally slaps the shit out of him.

Now to wait for the "he doesn't usually speed steal right away" crowd.

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Can iceman not just revert to gas form as soon as he gets hit and then, with a thought, freeze their molecules

The link below shows why the tactic you selected for Bobby wouldn't work against some of the faster Flashes. The faster Flashes like Wally and Barry are simply too fast, and that is even ignoring some of their feats like 'faster than instantaneous transmission from across the galaxy' stuff.

Anywhere, here is a link where he saves an entire city by transporting over 500,000 people, carrying them in twos and threes, to a safe location 35 miles away (meaning each trip he goes out 35 miles and goes back 35 miles to the city, searches for people, grabs 2 or 3, and then runs 35 miles away and returns to do the same over and over until 500,000 people are evacuated). Oh, and he does this within 0.00001 microseconds. While a nuclear weapon is exploding.

Full potential Ice Man is simply nowhere near the better Flashes. The Speed Force is a greater deus ex machina than anything Ice Man could ever HOPE to bring to the equation.

Here's the link for those who don't read DC, and having a Flash like Wally or Barry vs Ice Man probably indicates lack of reading DC. It would be like me asking if a full potential Nightwing could take down, say, Loki. Or maybe even if Alfred, that's Bruce Wayne's butler for those who only read Marvel, can use a walking cane to cripple the Hulk.

Maybe not impossible, but so improbable as to be patently ludicrous, and only possible in the realm of PIS of the highest magnitude.

Here's the link:

http://4thletter.net/2006/09/flash-fact-jla-89/

That link is likely wrong; my interpretation was that he was even faster than that.

Can Bobby process info at the speed of light?

Yes I've seen that feat before but my question is can they actually kill him, I don't think punching can hurt a gas

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Yes I've seen that feat before but my question is can they actually kill him, I don't think punching can hurt a gas

Two points - he would not have time to turn into a gas, and even if he started in gaseous form the effects of a mass passing through the gas multiple times at c speed would absolutely destroy it.

Now, if I wanted to give a longer answer I would tell you that what we call 'cold' is basically the slowing down of molecules (in the same way heat is the speeding up of molecules), and that Flash has literally slowed down the entire earth when it was being moved, and thus his control over the slowing down of molecules via the speed force is not only as developed as that of Bobby, but can actually cover a far wider scale (planet wide) with the only difference being that Wally's is through the Speed Force and manifests as a total freeze of movement, while Bobby's is through his abilities over cold and manifests as a total freeze (and zero kelvin, the lowest temperature possible, is scientifically the total stopping of movement - exactly what Flash can do).

But I will not get into that.

Suffice it to say that the gulf between Iceman and a Flash like Wally or Barry is absolute, which is why I was comparing it to me asking if Nightwing can beat Loki.

Fair enough
Flash is pretty overpowered though

Neither the flash thats mentioned here or iceman exist in comics. Fail thread

lol that is very true....

thing with 'full potential bobby' is that he doesn't strictly exist in one place at a time. if we assume full potential iceman is the same iceman that had that piece of apocalypse inside him, then flash could destroy his body, steal his speed, do whatever he wanted to him and....it wouldn't matter. his consciousness existed across the world, in all form of moisture.

http://i.imgur.com/MN8BZx9.png

he would simply reform from moisture in the air or, more deadly, from the moisture in flash's body who would assume bobby was destroyed. he was stabbed through the heart from behind in his human form and it was meaningless:

http://i.imgur.com/u8ZGORb.jpg

really, he can do pretty well anything he wants in this form. he would exist outside any area flash stole the speed from and destroying his body wouldn't matter. far be it from me to argue against a forum flash in 99% of cases, but even flash can't destroy all the moisture in the world, especially when he himself is composed of it. it takes a forum character to battle a forum character.....

Originally posted by leonidas
lol that is very true....

thing with 'full potential bobby' is that he doesn't strictly exist in one place at a time. if we assume full potential iceman is the same iceman that had that piece of apocalypse inside him, then flash could destroy his body, steal his speed, do whatever he wanted to him and....it wouldn't matter. his consciousness existed across the world, in all form of moisture.

http://i.imgur.com/MN8BZx9.png

he would simply reform from moisture in the air or, more deadly, from the moisture in flash's body who would assume bobby was destroyed. he was stabbed through the heart from behind in his human form and it was meaningless:

http://i.imgur.com/u8ZGORb.jpg

really, he can do pretty well anything he wants in this form. he would exist outside any area flash stole the speed from and destroying his body wouldn't matter. far be it from me to argue against a forum flash in 99% of cases, but even flash can't destroy all the moisture in the world, especially when he himself is composed of it. it takes a forum character to battle a forum character.....

Great points. But I think flash would only have to deal with Bobby operating inside battle distance. Bobby can't exist and operate outside battle distance per the rules. I doubt that full potential Bobby exists inside every living thing (that has moisture) in all universes.

Also without moisture Bobby cannot exist or operate. Moisture can be destroyed by transmutation.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol that is very true....

thing with 'full potential bobby' is that he doesn't strictly exist in one place at a time. if we assume full potential iceman is the same iceman that had that piece of apocalypse inside him, then flash could destroy his body, steal his speed, do whatever he wanted to him and....it wouldn't matter. his consciousness existed across the world, in all form of moisture.

http://i.imgur.com/MN8BZx9.png

he would simply reform from moisture in the air or, more deadly, from the moisture in flash's body who would assume bobby was destroyed. he was stabbed through the heart from behind in his human form and it was meaningless:

http://i.imgur.com/u8ZGORb.jpg

really, he can do pretty well anything he wants in this form. he would exist outside any area flash stole the speed from and destroying his body wouldn't matter. far be it from me to argue against a forum flash in 99% of cases, but even flash can't destroy all the moisture in the world, especially when he himself is composed of it. it takes a forum character to battle a forum character.....


Yea i despise forum characters. On kmc flash is unbeatable in comics he gets dropped my mooks. Meh

Originally posted by spetznaz
Here's the link for those who don't read DC, and having a Flash like Wally or Barry vs Ice Man probably indicates lack of reading DC. It would be like me asking if a full potential Nightwing could take down, say, Loki. Or maybe even if Alfred, that's Bruce Wayne's butler for those who only read Marvel, can use a walking cane to cripple the Hulk. Or maybe......not everyone is into forum flash till the point that it is pointless to create a thread that has him and also as ridiculously op and powerful forum flash is, it's not like this is a skyfather versus meta thread. At the end of the say Bobby is an omega level mutant with near unlimited ''power''. So yeah it just that Flash has powers that turn any type of battle into his favor

But how about this then. Iceman get a 5 to 10 seconds head start in this battle. That's more than enough time for Bobby to suck the moisture out of any Flashes, if he decides to go that route

edit: Oh and you don't have to be so arrogantly all knowing on us and say what is Marvel and what is DC relax pal.

On second thought, even though it was just a joke. How about i really change the stips that Bobby has a good 5 to 10 seconds to do whatever he wants before Flash. Of course they start from a good distance away and Flash is not gonna stand there and let himself get attacked. Hell, i can take away speed steal.

Edit: These stips are for Wally and Barry only.

Originally posted by h1a8
Great points. But I think flash would only have to deal with Bobby operating inside battle distance. Bobby can't exist and operate outside battle distance per the rules. I doubt that full potential Bobby exists inside every living thing (that has moisture) in all universes.

Also without moisture Bobby cannot exist or operate. Moisture can be destroyed by transmutation. Bobby can exist within the water molecules of Flash.

Originally posted by Mindset
Bobby can exist within the water molecules of Flash. I think the argument here is that The Flash can defeat Bobby before or even during him thinking about any type of offense to use on The Flash. Honestly, what is the speed of thought? isn't it unquantifiable?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I looked up everywhere for something like this! But is it truly accurate though? I refuse to believe hours of searching was wasted when the answer could be found just like that

Originally posted by TheHulk
I looked up everywhere for something like this! But is it truly accurate though? I refuse to believe hours of searching was wasted when the answer could be found just like that

Your Google-fu is weak, grasshopper.

But yeah, the source for that is the rules thread:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

About...halfway down? Just search for 'thought'.

Originally posted by spetznaz
The link below shows why the tactic you selected for Bobby wouldn't work against some of the faster Flashes. The faster Flashes like Wally and Barry are simply too fast, and that is even ignoring some of their feats like 'faster than instantaneous transmission from across the galaxy' stuff.

Anywhere, here is a link where he saves an entire city by transporting over 500,000 people, carrying them in twos and threes, to a safe location 35 miles away (meaning each trip he goes out 35 miles and goes back 35 miles to the city, searches for people, grabs 2 or 3, and then runs 35 miles away and returns to do the same over and over until 500,000 people are evacuated). Oh, and he does this within 0.00001 microseconds. While a nuclear weapon is exploding.

Full potential Ice Man is simply nowhere near the better Flashes. The Speed Force is a greater deus ex machina than anything Ice Man could ever HOPE to bring to the equation.

Here's the link for those who don't read DC, and having a Flash like Wally or Barry vs Ice Man probably indicates lack of reading DC. It would be like me asking if a full potential Nightwing could take down, say, Loki. Or maybe even if Alfred, that's Bruce Wayne's butler for those who only read Marvel, can use a walking cane to cripple the Hulk.

Maybe not impossible, but so improbable as to be patently ludicrous, and only possible in the realm of PIS of the highest magnitude.

Here's the link:

http://4thletter.net/2006/09/flash-fact-jla-89/

Way to be a condescending ass

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Way to be a condescending ass Woah now, it's still a matter of opinion Yeah there is some cockiness in his tone, but still.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Your Google-fu is weak, grasshopper.

But yeah, the source for that is the rules thread:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

About...halfway down? Just search for 'thought'. Man...sometimes i forget you read a lot of that stuff from the rule thread. Literally it was the second or third time i had a debate with you that you talked about the rules. I forgot what was it about though. But i kinda remember something like that happened between us

Whats with these prefixed terms "full powered omega" ? He's always at full power and omega is a classification.

Originally posted by TheHulk
Man...sometimes i forget you read a lot of that stuff from the rule thread. Literally it was the second or third time i had a debate with you that you talked about the rules. I forgot what was it about though. But i kinda remember something like that happened between us

Lol. This is the only forum I belong to, so I thought it best to at least familiarise myself in case I stepped on anyone's toes.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This is the only forum I belong to

Because you got banned from others haw-som

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yea i despise forum characters. On kmc flash is unbeatable in comics he gets dropped my mooks. Meh

Why is it you don't have any problem with him getting dropped by mooks? You don't see problems when a character can move at FTL speeds and one of his villains throws boomerangs?

What I'm saying is the heroes are written to fail, and it's rarely for a good reason so it's not like it's something one should find preferable.

Originally posted by TheHulk
Honestly, what is the speed of thought? isn't it unquantifiable?

According to comics themselves, it cannot be quantified indeed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDsWSugN7cA

Iceman wins

But that didn't really explain at all why Flash loses.

Well, when a talking gorilla can eat you...

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Yes I've seen that feat before but my question is can they actually kill him, I don't think punching can hurt a gas No, physically punching Bobby wouldn't kill him. However, if Flash were to steal Bobby's speed/kinetic energy, it *should* render him inert long enough to constitute a forum win.

Originally posted by Surtur
Why is it you don't have any problem with him getting dropped by mooks? You don't see problems when a character can move at FTL speeds and one of his villains throws boomerangs?

What I'm saying is the heroes are written to fail, and it's rarely for a good reason so it's not like it's something one should find preferable.

What are u asking me? Your sentence structure is off.

Originally posted by TheHulk
Iceman at his full potential vs The Flashes separately.

1.Barry Allen

2.Wally West

3.Bart Allen

4. New 52 Flash

5. New 52 Kid Flash



All Pre-52 except mentioned versions. How many out of the these 5 can Bobby beat. No prep and no BFR.

Bobby beats them all.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
What are u asking me? Your sentence structure is off.

I asked why it doesn't bother you when mooks beat up The Flash? Since you despise forum characters, and then you spoke about Flash getting taken out by mooks.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
What are u asking me? Your sentence structure is off.
He's just saying that flash is inconsistent because his villains throw boomerangs or is a talking gorilla and he doesn't own them instantly, yet he would own an infinitely more powerful iceman
#comiclogic

I'm just saying they give him this power of super speed and then to fight him they give him villains where he would have to pretty much fail on purpose in order for them to be taken seriously.

The Flash while very broken, was also set up to fail.

They know nothing of what Bobby can do with just basic knowledge. Not only can they not pinpoint his consciousness, but he can make clones of himself to fight AND remain in the air or inside their bodies and wait for the moment to strike. Brain freeze is both viable and probably his quickest attack.

Originally posted by hutchy1345
He's just saying that flash is inconsistent because his villains throw boomerangs or is a talking gorilla and he doesn't own them instantly, yet he would own an infinitely more powerful iceman
#comiclogic Comic logic is also why these touted "Omega-level Mutants" are rarely ever portrayed as the nigh-omnipotent Gods people like to believe they are. Point: every character has highs and lows. That is just how comics work.

Using Flash's rogue gallery as a means to downplay him, however, is laughably faulty.

Originally posted by jrodslam
They know nothing of what Bobby can do with just basic knowledge. Not only can they not pinpoint his consciousness, but he can make clones of himself to fight AND remain in the air or inside their bodies and wait for the moment to strike. Brain freeze is both viable and probably his quickest attack. Flash can calculate infinite possibilities in the space of a single page. He can steal speed/kinetic energy. He can perceive/react on an attosecond-by-attosecond basis. Etc. Etc.

So if we're talking high-end, Bobby would never even get a chance to use any of his abilities here. Flash's speed alone makes Bobby an eternal statue by comparison.

Originally posted by jrodslam
They know nothing of what Bobby can do with just basic knowledge. Not only can they not pinpoint his consciousness, but he can make clones of himself to fight AND remain in the air or inside their bodies and wait for the moment to strike. Brain freeze is both viable and probably his quickest attack.

That's such a faulty logic man. So we're to pretend that Bobby knows how the Flashes powers work too?

Originally posted by Galan007
Comic logic is also why these touted "Omega-level Mutants" are rarely ever portrayed as the nigh-omnipotent Gods people like to believe they are. Point: every character has highs and lows. That is just how comics work.

Using Flash's rogue gallery as a means to downplay him, however, is laughably faulty.

Flash can calculate infinite possibilities in the space of a single page. He can steal speed/kinetic energy. He can perceive/react on an attosecond-by-attosecond basis. Etc. Etc.

So if we're talking high-end, Bobby would never even get a chance to use any of his abilities here. Flash's speed alone makes Bobby an eternal statue by comparison.
Why can't he stomp a guy with a few boomerangs easier than he does?

Because they are there to tell a story, NOT 'ooh look how super awesome these powers are'.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because they are there to tell a story, NOT 'ooh look how super awesome these powers are'.


This. Which is y stories about god like characters are so difficult to write.

Originally posted by Surtur
I asked why it doesn't bother you when mooks beat up The Flash? Since you despise forum characters, and then you spoke about Flash getting taken out by mooks.

Because i want a goos story. Idc how fast flash can run, idc how strong hulk is...what matters is that there is a compelling plot. If i have a character who is unbeatable then there isnt a story to tell. He's not relatable.

Originally posted by Galan007
Comic logic is also why these touted "Omega-level Mutants" are rarely ever portrayed as the nigh-omnipotent Gods people like to believe they are. Point: every character has highs and lows. That is just how comics work.

Using Flash's rogue gallery as a means to downplay him, however, is laughably faulty.

Flash can calculate infinite possibilities in the space of a single page. He can steal speed/kinetic energy. He can perceive/react on an attosecond-by-attosecond basis. Etc. Etc.

So if we're talking high-end, Bobby would never even get a chance to use any of his abilities here. Flash's speed alone makes Bobby an eternal statue by comparison.

problem with this: bobby's consciousness would already be shared with flash in the form of moisture inside flash himself. wally could steal his speed but his consciousness was ALREADY inside flash as soon as they entered whatever field they are on. he's also pulled moisture from people before. flash would destroy his body and likely assume the match was over and bobby would still exist inside him. even if flash kept moving, bobby would be inside flash in the form of moisture anyway, so relatively they would be moving at the same speed.

i don't see anyway flash can win this given that for the sake of this fight, bobby literally exists inside ALL forms of moisture simultaneously. he doesn't need to shift his consciousness to other places--as the scan showed--he's IN those places already.....

Exactly
The only way iceman can be beaten is if you destroy all moisture on the planet or probably telepathy
And all iceman needs is to be able to process a thought to completely freeze flash and it's over

Originally posted by Galan007
Flash can calculate infinite possibilities in the space of a single page. He can steal speed/kinetic energy. He can perceive/react on an attosecond-by-attosecond basis. Etc. Etc.

So if we're talking high-end, Bobby would never even get a chance to use any of his abilities here. Flash's speed alone makes Bobby an eternal statue by comparison.

He can calculate infinite possibilities, and speed steal, but by looking at the op, they pretty much have basic knowledge of each other. Am i correct there? With that basic knowledge, Flash would assume bobbys projectiles,would work that of a Captain Colds gun or a Mr.Freeze or even a killer Frost. Because Bobby is usually mobile, i cant see the speed steal as a viable option.

ON the other hand we have Bobby with the same general knowledge of Flash. How is he gonna simply freeze someone hed be hard pressed to tag? Bobby is also know to slow/stop/freeze things to the atomic level as well. And if we're talking high end Bobby, his consciousness is withing the air, and he insta-freeze Flash. Theres literally nothing he could do about it no matter how fact his reaction time is. Thats an attack he couldnt see nor feel coming.

Originally posted by SquallX
That's such a faulty logic man. So we're to pretend that Bobby knows how the Flashes powers work too?

Not faulty logic. We're talking basic knowledge on both ends. Bobby is more likely the one to be underestimated. He doesnt just simply "freeze stuff".

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Exactly
The only way iceman can be beaten is if you destroy all moisture on the planet or probably telepathy
And all iceman needs is to be able to process a thought to completely freeze flash and it's over

Hell, even the telepathy part isnt a sure thing. remember, Jean couldnt get a lock on him. He was technically, "everywhere".

Originally posted by leonidas
problem with this: bobby's consciousness would already be shared with flash in the form of moisture inside flash himself. wally could steal his speed but his consciousness was ALREADY inside flash as soon as they entered whatever field they are on. he's also pulled moisture from people before. flash would destroy his body and likely assume the match was over and bobby would still exist inside him. even if flash kept moving, bobby would be inside flash in the form of moisture anyway, so relatively they would be moving at the same speed.

i don't see anyway flash can win this given that for the sake of this fight, bobby literally exists inside ALL forms of moisture simultaneously. he doesn't need to shift his consciousness to other places--as the scan showed--he's IN those places already.....

^^^

Originally posted by jrodslam
Hell, even the telepathy part isnt a sure thing. remember, Jean couldnt get a lock on him. He was technically, "everywhere".
Wow haha gg

Originally posted by leonidas
problem with this: bobby's consciousness would already be shared with flash in the form of moisture inside flash himself. wally could steal his speed but his consciousness was ALREADY inside flash as soon as they entered whatever field they are on. he's also pulled moisture from people before. flash would destroy his body and likely assume the match was over and bobby would still exist inside him. even if flash kept moving, bobby would be inside flash in the form of moisture anyway, so relatively they would be moving at the same speed.

i don't see anyway flash can win this given that for the sake of this fight, bobby literally exists inside ALL forms of moisture simultaneously. he doesn't need to shift his consciousness to other places--as the scan showed--he's IN those places already..... AFAIK, Bobby's own consciousness is in control of his own powers. He doesn't get his perceptions sped up to Flash-level simply by virtue of his essence(in a manner of speaking) existing inside Flash as water molecules... Unless you have a scan stating that his perceptions fluctuate in accordance with the specific h2o he embodies at any given time? On that note, is there a scan which states that Bobby actually does embody the water molecules within every living being(the panel you posted on the first page doesn't say this)..? Legit question.

Anyway, yes, Bobby may potentially have total control over the water molecules within Flash. However, he still has to consciously 'think' or 'will' in order to realize that power/control. IOW, Flash still operates at Flash-level; Bobby still operates at Bobby-level... Unless he has taken control over the water within a being instantly(in the literal sense) on panel? Then it just becomes more of a quick-draw, I guess. /shrug

Either way, remember that Bobby is contending with a being who has calculated infinite possibilities, instantly... A being who is used to routinely fighting a rogue whose tech can generate temperatures below Absolute Zero... A being who has complete control over every single atom of his body.

Don't think it's clear-cut for Bobby by any means, tbh.

Galan, stfu.

Originally posted by Mindset
Galan, stfu. http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/324961/slide_324961_3107881_free.gif

Originally posted by Galan007
AFAIK, Bobby's own consciousness is in control of his own powers. He doesn't get his perceptions sped up to Flash-level simply by virtue of his essence(in a manner of speaking) existing inside Flash as water molecules... Unless you have a scan stating that his perceptions fluctuate in accordance with the specific h2o he embodies at any given time? On that note, is there a scan which states that Bobby actually does embody the water molecules within every living being(the panel you posted on the first page doesn't say this)..? Legit question.

Anyway, yes, Bobby may potentially have total control over the water molecules within Flash. However, he still has to consciously 'think' or 'will' in order to realize that power/control. IOW, Flash still operates at Flash-level; Bobby still operates at Bobby-level... Unless he has taken control over the water within a being instantly(in the literal sense) on panel? Then it just becomes more of a quick-draw, I guess. /shrug

Either way, remember that Bobby is contending with a being who has calculated infinite possibilities, instantly... A being who is used to routinely fighting a rogue whose tech can generate temperatures below Absolute Zero... A being who has complete control over every single atom of his body.

Don't think it's clear-cut for Bobby by any means, tbh.

Flash has to destroy the world to win
Which he won't
So he loses
Simple

Originally posted by Galan007
http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/324961/slide_324961_3107881_free.gif

You just edited out Jim Carrey gif for... Kanye West one?

90 days ban (and several lacerations) imminent.

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Flash has to destroy the world to win
Which he won't
So he loses
Simple

Flash has destroyed entire timelines before, just to save his mom.

He's not trying to protect his mom

Originally posted by hutchy1345
He's not trying to protect his mom

Yeah, he's trying to save himself.

He doesn't care about himself.

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Flash has to destroy the world to win
Which he won't
So he loses
Simple Well there you have it...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Flash has destroyed entire timelines before, just to save his mom.

Touche.

Originally posted by Galan007
AFAIK, Bobby's own consciousness is in control of his own powers. He doesn't get his perceptions sped up to Flash-level simply by virtue of his essence(in a manner of speaking) existing inside Flash as water molecules... Unless you have a scan stating that his perceptions fluctuate in accordance with the specific h2o he embodies at any given time? On that note, is there a scan which states that Bobby actually does embody the water molecules within every living being(the panel you posted on the first page doesn't say this)..? Legit question.

Anyway, yes, Bobby may potentially have total control over the water molecules within Flash. However, he still has to consciously 'think' or 'will' in order to realize that power/control. IOW, Flash still operates at Flash-level; Bobby still operates at Bobby-level... Unless he has taken control over the water within a being instantly(in the literal sense) on panel? Then it just becomes more of a quick-draw, I guess. /shrug

Either way, remember that Bobby is contending with a being who has calculated infinite possibilities, instantly... A being who is used to routinely fighting a rogue whose tech can generate temperatures below Absolute Zero... A being who has complete control over every single atom of his body.

Don't think it's clear-cut for Bobby by any means, tbh.

i'm not saying he EMBODIES all moisture--i'm saying his consciousness EXISTS in all moisture. his consciousness has no...home-base in this state. it's why jean couldn't find him to tp him--his consciousness existed everywhere at the same time. so destroying his body, speed stealing his body, his infinite reaction time--none of it would matter because his consciousness is diffuse. that is what the scan was intended to show (he's in the water EVERYWHERE, at the same time, in that moment).

even if flash could somehow foresee something like that (and i'm not sure he could since he wouldn't really know what bobby was capable of) there is literally nothing he could do about it i don't think. unless he had a way to survive removing all the water from his body, he's gonna lose this because it's not a race--bobby is already part of him, like he's part of ALL water, in all forms, everywhere. from his frame of reference it might take eternity to be frozen, or have all the water in him drained--ie, for him to die--but in OUR frame of reference it would happen very quickly.

least imo.

Originally posted by spetznaz
Anywhere, here is a link where he saves an entire city by transporting over 500,000 people, carrying them in twos and threes, to a safe location 35 miles away (meaning each trip he goes out 35 miles and goes back 35 miles to the city, searches for people, grabs 2 or 3, and then runs 35 miles away and returns to do the same over and over until 500,000 people are evacuated). Oh, and he does this within 0.00001 microseconds. While a nuclear weapon is exploding. Surfer is faster than this

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not saying he EMBODIES all moisture--i'm saying his consciousness EXISTS in all moisture. his consciousness has no...home-base in this state. it's why jean couldn't find him to tp him--his consciousness existed everywhere at the same time. so destroying his body, speed stealing his body, his infinite reaction time--none of it would matter because his consciousness is diffuse. that is what the scan was intended to show (he's in the water EVERYWHERE, at the same time, in that moment).

even if flash could somehow foresee something like that (and i'm not sure he could since he wouldn't really know what bobby was capable of) there is literally nothing he could do about it i don't think. unless he had a way to survive removing all the water from his body, he's gonna lose this because it's not a race--bobby is already part of him, like he's part of ALL water, in all forms, everywhere. from his frame of reference it might take eternity to be enough, or have all the water in him drained--ie, for him to die--but in OUR frame of reference it would happen very quickly.

least imo. Fair enough. Still don't see him as beyond Flash's ability to deal with, given his feats... But to each his own.

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't see anyway flash can win this given that for the sake of this fight, bobby literally exists inside ALL forms of moisture simultaneously. he doesn't need to shift his consciousness to other places--as the scan showed--he's IN those places already.....

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not saying he EMBODIES all moisture--i'm saying his consciousness EXISTS in all moisture. his consciousness has no...home-base in this state. it's why jean couldn't find him to tp him--his consciousness existed everywhere at the same time. so destroying his body, speed stealing his body, his infinite reaction time--none of it would matter because his consciousness is diffuse. that is what the scan was intended to show (he's in the water EVERYWHERE, at the same time, in that moment).

even if flash could somehow foresee something like that (and i'm not sure he could since he wouldn't really know what bobby was capable of) there is literally nothing he could do about it i don't think. unless he had a way to survive removing all the water from his body, he's gonna lose this because it's not a race--bobby is already part of him, like he's part of ALL water, in all forms, everywhere. from his frame of reference it might take eternity to be frozen, or have all the water in him drained--ie, for him to die--but in OUR frame of reference it would happen very quickly.

least imo.


Thank you Leonidas, this is one of the reasons why i came up with this thread. If i didn't believe Bobby had no chance to win especially against OP Wally or Barry, i wouldn't have bothered to create this thread.

Oh and the reason why i placed the name ''Full Powered Omega Iceman'' is because i liked the name better So yeah i know i could have went Omega Iceman or Full potential Iceman

Problem with Bobby is that he keeps regressing...

Basically, there needs to be an Omega Level telepath around tampering with Drake's mind, otherwise he'll go full retard. As he's done plenty of times in his beautiful "career".

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Surfer is faster than this
In his fanboys' dreams perhaps.

Originally posted by h1a8
Great points. But I think flash would only have to deal with Bobby operating inside battle distance. Bobby can't exist and operate outside battle distance per the rules. I doubt that full potential Bobby exists inside every living thing (that has moisture) in all universes or in his own. He may have consciousness without his whole planet though. The term everywhere can hyperbole mean planetwide.
It needs to be proven that bobby can kill anyone from any universe that is composed of moisture. If so, then Basically he can kill movie Thor while being in 616 universe just for shits and giggles. This is simply not true. His consciousness is probably worldwide (not necessarily universe wide nor omniverse wide)

Also without moisture Bobby cannot exist or operate. Moisture can be destroyed by transmutation.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Surfer is faster than this Prove it

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not saying he EMBODIES all moisture--i'm saying his consciousness EXISTS in all moisture. his consciousness has no...home-base in this state. it's why jean couldn't find him to tp him--his consciousness existed everywhere at the same time. so destroying his body, speed stealing his body, his infinite reaction time--none of it would matter because his consciousness is diffuse. that is what the scan was intended to show (he's in the water EVERYWHERE, at the same time, in that moment).

even if flash could somehow foresee something like that (and i'm not sure he could since he wouldn't really know what bobby was capable of) there is literally nothing he could do about it i don't think. unless he had a way to survive removing all the water from his body, he's gonna lose this because it's not a race--bobby is already part of him, like he's part of ALL water, in all forms, everywhere. from his frame of reference it might take eternity to be frozen, or have all the water in him drained--ie, for him to die--but in OUR frame of reference it would happen very quickly.

least imo.

Bobby is not part of flash. Flash is from a different universe. And the moisture in flash's body is controlled by the speed force. That means Bobby wouldn't be able to affect flash even if we was a part of him.

being in another universe/dimension has not affected him using his powers

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Problem with Bobby is that he keeps regressing...

Basically, there needs to be an Omega Level telepath around tampering with Drake's mind, otherwise he'll go full retard. As he's done plenty of times in his beautiful "career".

Same with johnny and a shitload of characters

So basically iceman wins

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Same with johnny and a shitload of characters

Yeah, but Johnny keeps his physical form, he's only surrounded by the heat aura... so he at least has the excuse for getting beaten all the time.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah, but Johnny keeps his physical form, he's only surrounded by the heat aura... so he at least has the excuse for getting beaten all the time.

I wish he displayed some skill though...but these guys are supporting characters

Originally posted by hutchy1345
So basically iceman wins no I gave a counter argument to Leo's argument. It has to be shot down before Iceman can stalemate (he can't win).

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
being in another universe/dimension has not affected him using his powers That's irrelevant. Leo is suggesting that his consciousness is in beings from other universes (the omniverse). I disagree that his consciousness spands more than planet wide. I also disagree that his consciousness is in the makeup of living beings (not that he can't freeze living beings).

In the scan it says he can be in the snow and ice and water everywhere on the Earth. It doesn't say he can be in vapor EVERYWHERE. Also it doesn't say he can be inside living things. This is a pure stretch to believe so. Flash wins with ease as he can destroy his consciousness or mute him inside the battlefield.

U just contradicted yourself there mate
He's in water and ice everywhere but not water everywhere is basically what u said, water vapour is still water after all
Even if he's not in the flash he's all around him and all Bobby needs is one thought to win and flash can't stop him before he does that, in fact the flash can't stop him full stop.

Originally posted by h1a8
In the scan it says he can be in the snow and ice and water everywhere on the Earth. It doesn't say he can be in vapor EVERYWHERE. Also it doesn't say he can be inside living things. This is a pure stretch to believe so. Flash wins with ease as he can destroy his consciousness or mute him inside the battlefield. He has already been inside the water of a person in comics though...

Sounds like rape.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Originally posted by Mindset
He has already been inside the water of a person in comics though... yes because he TRANSFERRED his consciousness there. He wasn't in them before he transferred himself there.

He has to transfer his consciousness inside flash after the bell rings.
This is not possible since
1. He won't get a chance
2. Flash is too fast to pinpoint where to transfer to. (Assuming flash gives him time to operate)

Originally posted by hutchy1345
U just contradicted yourself there mate
He's in water and ice everywhere but not water everywhere is basically what u said, water vapour is still water after all
Even if he's not in the flash he's all around him and all Bobby needs is one thought to win and flash can't stop him before he does that, in fact the flash can't stop him full stop.

This is what my post says.
Originally posted by h1a8
In the scan it says he can be in the snow and ice and water everywhere on the Earth. It doesn't say he can be in vapor EVERYWHERE. Also it doesn't say he can be inside living things. This is a pure stretch to believe so. Flash wins with ease as he can destroy his consciousness or mute him inside the battlefield.

So I'm basically arguing vapor (gas) and living things.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Because i want a goos story. Idc how fast flash can run, idc how strong hulk is...what matters is that there is a compelling plot. If i have a character who is unbeatable then there isnt a story to tell. He's not relatable.

But yet in the other thread you mentioned how you hate when Black Panther beats bricks or whatever. So it seems you do care to an extent.

The thing is, we aren't telling a story here though, are we? So there is no reason to hold back for the plot.

Bottom line, Flash can't kill him, Iceman could potentially kill Flash.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Bottom line, Flash can't kill him, Iceman could potentially kill Flash.

There are some versions, like Wally, where he has no chance at all. Speed steal negates anything Iceman could do. Then Wally runs back in time and slaps Iceman's mother in the face at the moment of his birth.

He doesnt transfer his consciousness inside the person to my knowledge. Its existing in the area. Because he has that connection to all moisture, he takes that moisture from within the person and manipulates it. Thus, if theres moisture in a person(which there is), hes automatically connected to it. Much like in the X-men movies where Magneto was able to sense the metal in the guards blood.

Thats pretty much whats mentioned in one of the scans. Hes automatically connected to all moisture everywhere.

Originally posted by jrodslam
He doesnt transfer his consciousness inside the person to my knowledge.

You have no idea what rape techniques Mindset has taught him since Bendis revealed Bobby was maximum gay.

You can rape 10 men at the same time. I'll teach you how to rape a thousand.

- from "Rapeman Begins"

http://www.thewire.com/static/img/upload/2013/06/11/35891134.jpg

Originally posted by jrodslam
He doesnt transfer his consciousness inside the person to my knowledge. Its existing in the area. Because he has that connection to all moisture, he takes that moisture from within the person and manipulates it. Thus, if theres moisture in a person(which there is), hes automatically connected to it. Much like in the X-men movies where Magneto was able to sense the metal in the guards blood.

Thats pretty much whats mentioned in one of the scans. Hes automatically connected to all moisture everywhere. That's what I'm saying. He can manipulate moisture in someone but for him to actually be in someone (his consciousness and spirit) then he has to transfer it there someway.

His power is planet wide omnipresent but his consciousness (spirit) can only be at one place. He can see through and operate all water and on the planet but only from where his consciousness is located at the moment. Like I'm connected to my arms and legs but my conscience is in my brain. Water over the planet he's connected to but his consciousness is in only one place. Destroy his consciousness where it is then you destroy him permanently.

Honestly, this argument about Bobby's ability to consciousnessly in every moisture or water vapor in the air can go either way. So far as i seen, nothing can prove or disapprove it.

Originally posted by TheHulk
Honestly, this argument about Bobby's ability to consciousnessly in every moisture or water vapor in the air can go either way. So far as i seen, nothing can prove or disapprove it. It doesn't have to be disproved but proved.

Actually it can be disproved. If you read the entire comic then you would see that Bobby never operated that way. He always operated as if his consciousness was in one place. Look at his fight against Thor. His ice clones didn't have consciousness at all (per mind read).
At best Bobby was able to teleport (transfer his consciousness) where he wanted to be and be able to affect planet wide distances. He was able to affect all water like Magneto and metal (but on a grander scale)

That's fine
But how does flash win
You can't kill his consciousness if he can't pinpoint it

Originally posted by TheHulk
Honestly, this argument about Bobby's ability to consciousnessly in every moisture or water vapor in the air can go either way. So far as i seen, nothing can prove or disapprove it.

Hes stated it on panel that he was all over the world. In another instance he stated "I can sense moisture in the air. Feel the water".

Originally posted by Surtur
But yet in the other thread you mentioned how you hate when Black Panther beats bricks or whatever. So it seems you do care to an extent.

The thing is, we aren't telling a story here though, are we? So there is no reason to hold back for the plot.

What are you asking me exactly? I dont like characters jobbing but i also would like them to go by their portrayals. So Bruce outsmarting superman is fine but him "beating' him physically is bad writing. Same with Namor/BP etc...


The problem with the way you debate is exactly y phrases like "forum flash" and "full powered omega iceman" exist. We are no longer debating characters we are debating powersets. So if u want to do that change the thread title to speedster vs ice elemental. And throw characterization out the window

Originally posted by jrodslam
Hes stated it on panel that he was all over the world. In another instance he stated "I can sense moisture in the air. Feel the water". He stated that he was in all water all over the world. We know this is figurative talk and he meant that he can sense through, travel to, and manipulate all water all over the world from where he stands.
We know this because of how he actually operated in the comic.
Look at his fight with Thor. He operated as a single consciousness in a single body. Bobby was even stunned when Thor hit him with lightning.
Look at his ice clones. There were no consciousness inside of them. They were mearly being animated by him. If his consciousness was, everywhere then the psychic would have detected Bobby in the clones. But there was nothing there (empty shells).

Originally posted by hutchy1345
That's fine
But how does flash win
You can't kill his consciousness if he can't pinpoint it
Bobby starts off as material when the forum begins. His consciousness will be in his material body. Flash can bfr him into the speed force the instant the bell rings. Both his body and consciousness will be bfred.

I believe that if you transmute his body (turn it to hydrogen atoms) then he will die and ceast to exist (just like anyone).

Originally posted by hutchy1345
That's fine
But how does flash win
You can't kill his consciousness if he can't pinpoint it

As its powerset vs powerset, time travel. Or Flash just turns into pure living Speed Force energy, no water whatsoever.

Originally posted by h1a8
He stated that he was in all water all over the world. We know this is figurative talk and he meant that he can sense through, travel to, and manipulate all water all over the world from where he stands.
We know this because of how he actually operated in the comic.
Look at his fight with Thor. He operated as a single consciousness in a single body. Bobby was even stunned when Thor hit him with lightning.
Look at his ice clones. There were no consciousness inside of them. They were mearly being animated by him. If his consciousness was, everywhere then the psychic would have detected Bobby in the clones. But there was nothing there (empty shells).


Bobby starts off as material when the forum begins. His consciousness will be in his material body. Flash can bfr him into the speed force the instant the bell rings. Both his body and consciousness will be bfred.

I believe that if you transmute his body (turn it to hydrogen atoms) then he will die and ceast to exist (just like anyone).

Says no bfr in the op just saying

Originally posted by Sin I AM
What are you asking me exactly? I dont like characters jobbing but i also would like them to go by their portrayals. So Bruce outsmarting superman is fine but him "beating' him physically is bad writing. Same with Namor/BP etc...


The problem with the way you debate is exactly y phrases like "forum flash" and "full powered omega iceman" exist. We are no longer debating characters we are debating powersets. So if u want to do that change the thread title to speedster vs ice elemental. And throw characterization out the window Characterization only affects the decisions of a character, not their power set. Speed of perceptions is a particular set where characterization doesn't affect. The same goes for durability. These power sets are always on unless a comic tells us that a character can alter them greatly at will.

So Characterization would affect Surfer's behavior (whether to blast or soul suck) but not his durability or ability to perceive fast things as they were much slower.

If a character never has done something and it isn't common sense to do then most likely they are not doing it in a forum fight.

Finally, flash will eventually realize that he has to bfr Bobby since he will be literally thinking for many years within a fraction of a second .

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Says no bfr in the op just saying
Well then idk. If the flashes can turn him into single atoms (non water molecules) within the first nanosecond then they have a shot

Originally posted by hutchy1345
That's fine
But how does flash win
You can't kill his consciousness if he can't pinpoint it

There are multiple versions of Flash here, some of which don't need to kill him to defeat him.

Originally posted by h1a8
Characterization only affects the decisions of a character, not their power set. Speed of perceptions is a particular set where characterization doesn't affect. The same goes for durability. These power sets are always on unless a comic tells us that a character can alter them greatly at will.

So Characterization would affect Surfer's behavior (whether to blast or soul suck) but not his durability or ability to perceive fast things as they were much slower.

If a character never has done something and it isn't common sense to do then most likely they are not doing it in a forum fight.

Finally, flash will eventually realize that he has to bfr Bobby since he will be literally thinking for many years within a fraction of a second .

You've been told this before though ad nauseum everything I've already said. Besides we go by averages not high feats only

Originally posted by h1a8
He stated that he was in all water all over the world. We know this is figurative talk and he meant that he can sense through, travel to, and manipulate all water all over the world from where he stands.
We know this because of how he actually operated in the comic.
Look at his fight with Thor. He operated as a single consciousness in a single body. Bobby was even stunned when Thor hit him with lightning.
Look at his ice clones. There were no consciousness inside of them. They were mearly being animated by him. If his consciousness was, everywhere then the psychic would have detected Bobby in the clones. But there was nothing there (empty shells).

Its funny you mention that, because if you keep reading, right after the attempts to reach the clones, He himself showed up, and she still couldnt get in his mind, and it was the actual Bobby that time around. "Im trying to enter his mind...But he's just like the others. Its as if...Beneath his skin he's all ice." He got stabbed from behind and there was on effect at all, yet when he got big, and Gambit blew his foot up, he reacted to it. He was operating in a single body and still his mind could not be reached.

Even when they were on the ship with Prosh, Jean sensed him and was able to speak, but she was even unsure if it was him. And again, he said hes everywhere.

that's why he likened himself to a god--he was omnipresent in water around the world. he didn't have to 'send' his consciousness anywhere--it was there already. this IS full potential. it's the only reason he would win this.

I haven't read an Xmen comic in years. Who wants to update me on what exactly just happened with Bobby and why he's fighting the X-Men?

Emma frost took over him right?

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Emma frost took over him right?

He was in a coma, and she took over his body

Originally posted by Blair Wind
I haven't read an Xmen comic in years. Who wants to update me on what exactly just happened with Bobby and why he's fighting the X-Men?

Well he was really in conflict with himself all along. But Dark Beast put a fragment of apocalypse inside him issues ago. That fragment work pretty much how Apoc was operating in the movie. It opened Bobbys mind in which he wasnt holding his powers back. Conflict was in his mind from issues with his father and former ex's Lorna, Opal, Kitty. Thor came into play because he sensed the end of the world Ragnarok(sp?).

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/iceman-vs-sub-zero-8626/?page=3

Near the bottom of that page there's a series of scans posted that basically sum up why iceman is ridiculously powerful, he's gotta be one of the most powerful mutants that doesn't have reality warping
He stomps this fight, "I could kill you with a thought. I could kill this whole world, right this second"
Also I may be wrong but did iceman not beat oblivion?

Originally posted by hutchy1345
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/iceman-vs-sub-zero-8626/?page=3

Near the bottom of that page there's a series of scans posted that basically sum up why iceman is ridiculously powerful, he's gotta be one of the most powerful mutants that doesn't have reality warping
He stomps this fight, "I could kill you with a thought. I could kill this whole world, right this second"
Also I may be wrong but did iceman not beat oblivion?

How does Iceman resist a speedsteal?

Originally posted by Surtur
How does Iceman resist a speedsteal?

I dont think he needs to resist it. Speed stealing doenst stop thought. Only movement. We all know Bobby doesnt need a body to operate.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Its funny you mention that, because if you keep reading, right after the attempts to reach the clones, He himself showed up, and she still couldnt get in his mind, and it was the actual Bobby that time around. "Im trying to enter his mind...But he's just like the others. Its as if...Beneath his skin he's all ice." He got stabbed from behind and there was on effect at all, yet when he got big, and Gambit blew his foot up, he reacted to it. He was operating in a single body and still his mind could not be reached.

Even when they were on the ship with Prosh, Jean sensed him and was able to speak, but she was even unsure if it was him. And again, he said hes everywhere.
You just proven my point. Bobby was different from his clones. If Bobby was literally everywhere (instead of just only having influence and being able to see everywhere) then his clones would have been exactly him. But they weren't.
If my arms and legs are in one room and I'm (my head and soul) is in another then I'm not in the room where my arms and legs are. I'm defining the I as a soul. Bobby's soul is in one place at a time, just like everyone else's in Marvel.

Originally posted by leonidas
that's why he likened himself to a god--he was omnipresent in water around the world. he didn't have to 'send' his consciousness anywhere--it was there already. this IS full potential. it's the only reason he would win this.

False, he can sense inside and control water everywhere. That's like being there. He can send himself (physical representation) anywhere. His existence (soul) was at 1 place at a time. We know this because his clones were DIFFERENT them himself.
If he could be everywhere in the literal sense then his clones would have been exactly him. But they weren't.
Also, it was shown to take a few seconds from Bobby travel. He could have instantly been at 2 places at the same time. He had to disappear from one place and travel to another (send his consciousness there) place AS SHOWN.

Everything you guys are saying is contradicted by what is shown in the comic. Bobby never performed any showing displaying that he was even in 2 places at the same time. But rather, the opposite (he was at 1 place at a time but can see and also influence other places in the world).

Originally posted by h1a8
You just proven my point. Bobby was different from his clones. If Bobby was literally everywhere (instead of just only having influence and being able to see everywhere) then his clones would have been exactly him. But they weren't.
If my arms and legs are in one room and I'm (my head and soul) is in another then I'm not in the room where my arms and legs are. I'm defining the I as a soul. Bobby's soul is in one place at a time, just like everyone else's in Marvel.



False, he can sense inside and control water everywhere. That's like being there. He can send himself (physical representation) anywhere. His existence (soul) was at 1 place at a time. We know this because his clones were DIFFERENT them himself.
If he could be everywhere in the literal sense then his clones would have been exactly him. But they weren't.
Also, it was shown to take a few seconds from Bobby travel. He could have instantly been at 2 places at the same time. He had to disappear from one place and travel to another (send his consciousness there) place AS SHOWN.

Everything you guys are saying is contradicted by what is shown in the comic. Bobby never performed any showing displaying that he was even in 2 places at the same time. But rather, the opposite (he was at 1 place at a time but can see and also influence other places in the world).

Okay but how does relate to iceman losing
He can just move if that body is destroyed and maybe en route to another just freeze the flash
I can't see how he loses

Also when Thor strikes Bobby with lightning you see that Bobby is in pain and stunned. If Bobby was everywhere then you could just lightning any water anywhere on Earth to hurt Bobby.
And don't forget the fact that it was shown that Bobby and the go back into the snow in order to travel. If he was everywhere then he wouldn't need to do this.

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Okay but how does relate to iceman losing
He can just move if that body is destroyed and maybe en route to another just freeze the flash
I can't see how he loses

If Flash can destroy his body instantly (before he can move his consciousness elsewhere) then Bobby will be dead. Bobby's consciousness cannot exist as random atoms (outside moisture).

Bobby at least stalemates since he has no way to even affect Flash.
So if Flash can't win then never can Bobby.

How do you know that destroying his body instantly win kill him?
He's been shown to reform himself

Because Flash would stop him before his consciousness can jump, is the argument I think.

So much reaching going on here

You're surprised?

Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont think he needs to resist it. Speed stealing doenst stop thought. Only movement. We all know Bobby doesnt need a body to operate.

Speed steal can make it so it takes you a century to blink. His thought process will be incredibly slow. That seems like a win.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You're surprised? .

Yes. Its like trying to teach cavemen how to make fire. Its simply beyond their comprehension

Originally posted by Surtur
Speed steal can make it so it takes you a century to blink. His thought process will be incredibly slow. That seems like a win.

What if Bobby morphs into an ice ape?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
.

Yes. Its like trying to teach cavemen how to make fire. Its simply beyond their comprehension

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What if Bobby morphs into an ice ape?

Turns out Wallys only weakness is ice apes.

Originally posted by hutchy1345
How do you know that destroying his body instantly win kill him?
He's been shown to reform himself He has reformed himself because the the moisture that he was composed of wasn't destroyed.

I'm not referring to breaking his body into pieces but into atoms (complete disintegration).

Plus flash can stop him from reforming even if he just break him into pieces. This would constitute a forum win.

Honestly, the very most i can concede to h1 is that only parts of Bobby's conscious is in every water molecule in the world. So Bobby's mind still acts as a motherboard. That's the best i can give honestly.

Is it true that iceman froze oblivion or something I can't remember

Originally posted by h1a8
You just proven my point. Bobby was different from his clones. If Bobby was literally everywhere (instead of just only having influence and being able to see everywhere) then his clones would have been exactly him. But they weren't.
If my arms and legs are in one room and I'm (my head and soul) is in another then I'm not in the room where my arms and legs are. I'm defining the I as a soul. Bobby's soul is in one place at a time, just like everyone else's in Marvel.



False, he can sense inside and control water everywhere. That's like being there. He can send himself (physical representation) anywhere. His existence (soul) was at 1 place at a time. We know this because his clones were DIFFERENT them himself.
If he could be everywhere in the literal sense then his clones would have been exactly him. But they weren't.
Also, it was shown to take a few seconds from Bobby travel. He could have instantly been at 2 places at the same time. He had to disappear from one place and travel to another (send his consciousness there) place AS SHOWN.

Everything you guys are saying is contradicted by what is shown in the comic. Bobby never performed any showing displaying that he was even in 2 places at the same time. But rather, the opposite (he was at 1 place at a time but can see and also influence other places in the world).

No. You are false. His clones were not different from himself. Thats what i was saying. Hen the actual Bobby appeared, his mind STILL couldnt be reached. "But hes just like the others."
http://imgur.com/VTLlzmN

He has to be in 2 places at the same time, if he has to be. Like he said to his father. "You didnt even fall. I was right there with you." He didnt allow his father to get hurt when he "fell".
http://imgur.com/N8e7M0Q

To say Flash "kills" him by destroying his body is absurd. Thor wasnt able to do it. Bobby saying "Arrgh" when Gambit blows up a leg, or "Nnnggh" from a lightning attack from Thor, yet nothing when Warbird stabs right through his chest, makes me even question if he was stunned or hurt. He struck Mystique with lightning, and she didnt say a word. Seems like inconsistency to me.

Thor destroyed his body, and Bobby was still able to be in battle let alone, teleport Thor, mystique and everyone else to different locations.

Originally posted by h1a8
He has reformed himself because the the moisture that he was composed of wasn't destroyed.


False. He can reform himself via moisture from others.
http://imgur.com/loxGa1h

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Is it true that iceman froze oblivion or something I can't remember

Originally posted by hutchy1345


http://imgur.com/hkdAZkm

Lol, Oblivion jobs almost as much as Living Tribunal.

Iceman is god-tier
Proof right there

Not even a low meta, actually.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111216631/4518657-4629847183-14295.jpg

Originally posted by jrodslam
No. You are false. His clones were not different from himself. Thats what i was saying. Hen the actual Bobby appeared, his mind STILL couldnt be reached. "But hes just like the others."
http://imgur.com/VTLlzmN

He has to be in 2 places at the same time, if he has to be. Like he said to his father. "You didnt even fall. I was right there with you." He didnt allow his father to get hurt when he "fell".
http://imgur.com/N8e7M0Q

He's like the others but he ISN'T the others. Bobby was separate from his clones. Again, this proves my point.

He wasn't at 2 places at the same time. Remember he can SEE through and Operate water from 2 places at the same time. He can also instantly teleport somewhere else.


So in the scan it doesnt prove that Bobby was in 2 places at the same time. Bobby could have merely looked through the snow to spy on his dad.



That's like me looking at someone live halfway across the world on a TV screen. But I'm not actually there (until I teleport there).

What you are not getting is that Bobby ALWAYS operated on a singular level. He fought Thor and the others one on one. If he was literally everywhere then he wouldn't have needed to disappear in order to teleport somewhere else.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Thor destroyed his body, and Bobby was still able to be in battle let alone, teleport Thor, mystique and everyone else to different locations.

Hold on Iceman can teleport people?

Originally posted by jrodslam
To say Flash "kills" him by destroying his body is absurd. Thor wasnt able to do it. Bobby saying "Arrgh" when Gambit blows up a leg, or "Nnnggh" from a lightning attack from Thor, yet nothing when Warbird stabs right through his chest, makes me even question if he was stunned or hurt. He struck Mystique with lightning, and she didnt say a word. Seems like inconsistency to me.

Thor destroyed his body, and Bobby was still able to be in battle let alone, teleport Thor, mystique and everyone else to different locations. They were energy attacks vs. a physical attack. Also Bobby was indeed shown initially affected from the stab. Look at his face. It looks like a normal person when they are being stabbed in the back.

Anyway, by destroy I mean transmute h2o molecules to different molecules. Disintegration works (as it atomizes). So Thor didnt actually destroy the water at all. Bobby can not exist if the body of water that he resides in ceases to exist (is transmuted). Otherwise Bobby can exist inside objects that have no moisture.

To exist inside the moisture of others he must first transfer there.

Finally, Bobby has no defense against Flash just stopping him. Even if Bobby transfers to the moisture in Flashes body (he won't get a chance to) then he would just be trapped there as the speed force is greater.

Originally posted by Surtur
Hold on Iceman can teleport people? Not quite, he can transport them through snow.

Originally posted by jrodslam
False. He can reform himself via moisture from others.
http://imgur.com/loxGa1h That's scan doesn't show that. Post the scans before and after than one.

Also, flash can keep Bobby from reforming by stopping his movement.

Thus flash wins by incapacitating Bobby.

Originally posted by Surtur
Hold on Iceman can teleport people?

He can even travel in time, as long as there's ice in his butt

Originally posted by h1a8
Not quite, he can transport them through snow.

That's scan doesn't show that. Post the scans before and after than one.

Also, flash can keep Bobby from reforming by stopping his movement.

Thus flash wins by incapacitating Bobby.

http://imgur.com/2SjXeAX

The scan does show it. He took the moisture from someone else's body.
Flash would never be able to keep Bobby form reforming.

Originally posted by h1a8
They were energy attacks vs. a physical attack. Also Bobby was indeed shown initially affected from the stab. Look at his face. It looks like a normal person when they are being stabbed in the back.

Anyway, by destroy I mean transmute h2o molecules to different molecules. Disintegration works (as it atomizes). So Thor didnt actually destroy the water at all. Bobby can not exist if the body of water that he resides in ceases to exist (is transmuted). Otherwise Bobby can exist inside objects that have no moisture.

To exist inside the moisture of others he must first transfer there.

Finally, Bobby has no defense against Flash just stopping him. Even if Bobby transfers to the moisture in Flashes body (he won't get a chance to) then he would just be trapped there as the speed force is greater.

The look on his face was that of surprise. a normal person being surprised and stabbed would have at least said ouch.

Bobbys body can be disintegrated, evaporated, transmuted or anything. Thats the entire point. He doesn need a body to be effective at all. As long as there is moisture somewhere, he can reform.

Flash has no way to stop or destroy Bobbys consciousness.

You still have not responded to the actual Bobby still not being able to have his mind reached while in ice form. Like mentioned. "Hes just like the others"
http://imgur.com/MrutOSg

Originally posted by Surtur
Hold on Iceman can teleport people?

Yea. Transported or teletransportation as some would define it. Ice/snow devoursed them in the city and put them in the mountains somewhere. Even Thor was confused as to what was happening and couldnt stop it.

Originally posted by jrodslam
The look on his face was that of surprise. a normal person being surprised and stabbed would have at least said ouch.

Bobbys body can be disintegrated, evaporated, transmuted or anything. Thats the entire point. He doesn need a body to be effective at all. As long as there is moisture somewhere, he can reform.

Flash has no way to stop or destroy Bobbys consciousness.

You still have not responded to the actual Bobby still not being able to have his mind reached while in ice form. Like mentioned. "Hes just like the others"
http://imgur.com/MrutOSg

Prove that if Bobby is disintegrated or transmuted into non water molecules he can reform.

Flash can simply stop him from reforming by stealing his speed.

I did respond. Just go up a few posts.

Both characters at their peak are retarded, tbh.

Classic Iceman vs. Classic Flash would be better. Iceman iceblasts - misses - Flash closes the distance and KOs him with a single hit, the end.

Problem is full potential iceman is pretty speculative
Bishop said something about his potential to effect other matter and molecules other than moisture (don't have the scan so might be wrong)
So he could be completely ridiculous and stomp