Does Liberalism Represent the Fall of Democracy?

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Time-Immemorial
The Fall of Democracy

How weird this come back full circle.

Anti Trump protestors are literally attacking, egging, and beating up people just attending Trump Ralleys.

The attackers are following the people to their cars, attacking them, burning American Flags, saying "America was never great"

Attacking Trump Supporters

Ugly Bloody Attacks


Now the illegal Mexicans are showing up with their Mexican Flags and saying America doesn't belong to us. Do they not know this will only rally more people to the Trump Nationalist Party?

AlmightyKfish
Well just to answer your thread title.


No it does not.

Shitty people and angry people do stupid stuff, does not invalidate liberal ideas or left wing politics in general.

Omega Vision
Another terrible bait thread.

Time-Immemorial
I didn't write the article, another concession from you.

Omega Vision
laughing out loud

Time-Immemorial
Where is the condemnation of this violence and political culture that is breaking this country apart in many aspects.

This is just a foreshadow of what is to come too.

But really why has Hilary and Sanders not condemned this violence from their supporters.

Why isn't the usual people here staying silent about this, but before they were so quick to judge isolated incidents at rallies.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Well just to answer your thread title.


No it does not.

Shitty people and angry people do stupid stuff, does not invalidate liberal ideas or left wing politics in general.

Its not just the sheep as you trying to frame itthumb up

Now the leaders of the the never trump movement are laughing at the women assaulted by the violent leftists.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/06/03/nevertrump-leader-ben-howe-mocks-defenseless-woman-attacked-by-mob-at-trump-rally/

AlmightyKfish
Well the fact that guy tweeting specifies he condemns the violence but doesn't really consider egging violence aside.

It still does not represent the fall of democracy. He is just some guy. Maybe one with a platform but still.

Time-Immemorial
Im talking about an accumulation, democracy is being shut down through the perversion of the 1st amendment. You can't use the first amendment and violence to shut down the rights of others to peacefully assemble.

AlmightyKfish
Meh, if democracy in the US persists after stuff like Kent State in 1970, I'm sure it will survive slightly zealous protests.

Time-Immemorial
People are being seriously hurt, for attending rallies for the political candidates they want to see, why should people have to be worried about their life being hurt because they want to be apart of the democratic process? Do these people deserve this?

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/jun/02/donald-trump-san-jose-rally-protesters-clash-supporters

AlmightyKfish
They shouldn't have to, but again, hardly something to blame on liberalism or tout the fall of democracy.

People all across the political spectrum worldwide protest and counter protest and it gets out of hand at times. But most of that is just people being angry etc, not to do with any specific ideology. Like here in the UK we often get far-right Britain First marches, which have been characterized by aggressive behaviour, but also then anti-fascist marches oppose them, and it all escalates into a brawl.

It's also one of those things that's difficult to find a solution to. More police presence? makes people uncomfortable at times and risks terrible escalation. And you can't really put limits on your first amendment as it's meant to apply both ways.

Time-Immemorial
You don't attack people and follow them home or to their cars, to beat them up for attending a peaceful gathering, quit trying to side step.

AlmightyKfish
I never said you should.

In fact I never suggested support for such actions. Protests should 100% remain peaceful, as everyone has the right to express their opinion but also not stop others from doing so.

My point was just it's not liberalism as a cause here, it's something that happens all over the spectrum.

Time-Immemorial
So the point is, this is the shut down of democracy. You said it isn't. I explained why it is liberalism, because its all the liberals leading these groups and starting these fights.

Surtur
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Meh, if democracy in the US persists after stuff like Kent State in 1970, I'm sure it will survive slightly zealous protests.

I don't think it will destroy democracy, but it's given it a stain that needs to be wiped off. In the 60's most of the anti war movement protests were non-violent, but they sent armed guards and shit to them anyways. But now cops won't even interfere with a violent mob? Why did we go from one extreme to the other?

People can say this thread is trying to bait people, but at the root of this is violence and some people in this country are more or less condoning violence. To me, that is more or less what you are doing when you blame Donald Trump for this. I want to note when I say "you" I do not mean you personally. But when someone blames Trump for this to me it says these people in a way had a right to do what they did.

A mob showed up and didn't just throw eggs at people, they threw cans and bottles and rocks as well. Which before you try to say that's not a huge deal please allow me to throw a rock at your head as hard as I can. People were also physically assaulted as well as having their cars damaged, etc. Some Trump supporters were even reportedly chased down by some protesters. To me a slightly zealous protest is when a protester runs up on stage and interrupts the person. Not when a mob shows up and starts committing various acts of violence against innocent people.

Let me ask you something: if one of the supporters had turned out to have a conceal and carry on them and they shot and killed someone who was trying to attack them, would you say they were in the wrong?

Time-Immemorial
Eggs can really hurt someone, these people were throwing debris at police, and bottles at trump attendees.

Surtur
Yep and all the cops do is tell them to go home. Which the only reason for them to do nothing is if they were specifically ordered not to do anything more than telling them to leave. Which why do I get the feeling the order came from the mayor? I bet he's best friends with the mayor of Baltimore.

Unless there have been recent reports about police actually arresting anyone responsible? At all?

Digi
"Tonight at 11: Do leading questions ever produce rational dialogue? Followed by our exclusive expose, 'Does Watching the Big Bang Theory Literally Cause Cancer? And Can You Afford to Risk It?' All this, plus weather and sports, tonight on Action News...Where Your News Matters!"

Surtur
Originally posted by Digi
"Tonight at 11: Do leading questions ever produce rational dialogue? Followed by our exclusive expose, 'Does Watching the Big Bang Theory Literally Cause Cancer? And Can You Afford to Risk It?' All this, plus weather and sports, tonight on Action News...Where Your News Matters!"

All I can say is I have never watched "The Big Bang Theory" and I do not have cancer. Coincidence?

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Digi
"Tonight at 11: Do leading questions ever produce rational dialogue? Followed by our exclusive expose, 'Does Watching the Big Bang Theory Literally Cause Cancer? And Can You Afford to Risk It?' All this, plus weather and sports, tonight on Action News...Where Your News Matters!"

Correct, you are never supposed to question anything, you are just supposed to go along to get along.

Digi
Relax TI, there's no need to put words in my mouth. "Lol" would have sufficed for what was an obvious joke.

But sure, not responding super seriously to bait threads on dead internet forums must make me a sheeple.

I wouldn't even mind debating some of these more controversial or polarizing topics. There are likely fascinating sociological points to unearth. But there has to be a little bit of good faith on both sides, or it's just a pointless exercise. It's not the topic I detest, it's the heavy-handed, agenda-laden approach to debate that permeates not just KMC but these topics as a whole. It serves only to help people reinforce their own beliefs while giving them a faint sense of righteousness. I have no use for either of those things.

Time-Immemorial
I didn't write any of those articles, who is the bait for if not for anything more then to talk about current events.

Surtur
Originally posted by Digi
Relax TI, there's no need to put words in my mouth. "Lol" would have sufficed for what was an obvious joke.

But sure, not responding super seriously to bait threads on dead internet forums must make me a sheeple.

I wouldn't even mind debating some of these more controversial or polarizing topics. There are likely fascinating sociological points to unearth. But there has to be a little bit of good faith on both sides, or it's just a pointless exercise. It's not the topic I detest, it's the heavy-handed, agenda-laden approach to debate that permeates not just KMC but these topics as a whole. It serves only to help people reinforce their own beliefs while giving them a faint sense of righteousness. I have no use for either of those things.

Well what is your opinion on the inaction of the police at the rally? And of the mayor essentially blaming Trump for this?

To me the mayor doing that was setting a dangerous precedent. I think if he was going to comment he should of condemned the actions of any violent protesters. It's not like he has to support Trump in order to simply denounce violence at these rallies.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by Digi
Relax TI, there's no need to put words in my mouth. "Lol" would have sufficed for what was an obvious joke.

But sure, not responding super seriously to bait threads on dead internet forums must make me a sheeple.

I wouldn't even mind debating some of these more controversial or polarizing topics. There are likely fascinating sociological points to unearth. But there has to be a little bit of good faith on both sides, or it's just a pointless exercise. It's not the topic I detest, it's the heavy-handed, agenda-laden approach to debate that permeates not just KMC but these topics as a whole. It serves only to help people reinforce their own beliefs while giving them a faint sense of righteousness. I have no use for either of those things.

Oh wow new blood! This subforum is TI, xyz, raisen and sulfur having continuous dialogue amongst each other. It's nice to have a fresh face!

Raisen
Extreme liberalism labels people. it quells open discussion like the trump protestors do. it makes police fear doing their job. it focus on narrow issues affecting the few just to garner votes.
yes, extreme liberalism can represent the fall of democracy by silencing opposition. that is what it does. a little liberalism, and extreme conservatism is dangerous also. nothing is quite this simple

Raisen
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Oh wow new blood! This subforum is TI, xyz, raisen and sulfur having continuous dialogue amongst each other. It's nice to have a fresh face!

is there anything wrong with that? have I been anything but supportive of you?

Surtur
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Oh wow new blood! This subforum is TI, xyz, raisen and sulfur having continuous dialogue amongst each other. It's nice to have a fresh face!

I've never really said anything negative to you and you basically keep popping into threads just specifically to say this.

On top of that, you act like what you describe is something unique that only happens in the GDF.

Digi
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Oh wow new blood! This subforum is TI, xyz, raisen and sulfur having continuous dialogue amongst each other. It's nice to have a fresh face!

Lol. I got a chuckle out of being called new blood. Thanks for that.

thumb up

Raisen
Originally posted by Surtur
I've never really said anything negative to you and you basically keep popping into threads just specifically to say this.

On top of that, you act like what you describe is something unique that only happens in the GDF.

I've actually been supportive of him and he does this to me too.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Raisen
is there anything wrong with that? have I been anything but supportive of you?

why do you even talking to a blatent troll like warehouse?

Raisen
how do I do the spoiler alert thing

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by Raisen
is there anything wrong with that? have I been anything but supportive of you?

Yes.. There's something wrong when there's only 4 people posting in the entire subforum. That's not a good thing, that means nobody wants to post anymore.

And DIGI you're new blood as far as the past few weeks is concerned on this subforum.

Surtur
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Yes.. There's something wrong when there's only 4 people posting in the entire subforum. That's not a good thing, that means nobody wants to post anymore.

And DIGI you're new blood as far as the past few weeks is concerned on this subforum.

The forum has been in a steady decline for a while, it's really not due to just the last few weeks or anything.

Raisen
didn't you say I circle jerk surtur, ti, and xyz?

jaden101
For me, violence at rallies is less of a threat to democracy than what's in the news in the UK again today

The Conservative government attempting to block an investigation into their party rigging elections in key constituencies. It has the potential for declaring the election void.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/01/judge-grants-extension-to-police-investigation-into-tory-election

Raisen
I agree that is a bigger issue.

krisblaze
I thought the US wasn't a democracy? big grin

Stigma
Originally posted by krisblaze
I thought the US wasn't a democracy? big grin
Correct. thumb up

The US is a representative repubic. Democracy is mob rule.

krisblaze
Originally posted by Stigma
Correct. thumb up

The US is a representative repubic. Democracy is mob rule.

You're stupid thumb up

MS Warehouse
Ahhh psuedo intellectuals.

Surtur
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Ahhh psuedo intellectuals.

I know right? With their constant whining about "right wing circle jerks" and all that, priceless.

Raisen
Maybe he wants in on the circle jerks. I'm bored of them homestly.
Warehouse can join if he sucks us all off and I get mine first. That's the only condition

Surtur
It depends on what he is into, we have plenty of options here. You have right wing circle jerks, left wing circle jerks..I guess that isn't "plenty" of options, but it is more than one.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by Surtur
I know right? With their constant whining about "right wing circle jerks" and all that, priceless.

Yes, because me stating that this subforum actually has 4 full time posters somehow translates into "whining about right wing circle jerks". I'm also a conservative but your lack of reading comprehension is embarrassing. Carry on thumb up

Time-Immemorial
Warehouse day slow?

Surtur
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Yes, because me stating that this subforum actually has 4 full time posters somehow translates into "whining about right wing circle jerks". I'm also a conservative but your lack of reading comprehension is embarrassing. Carry on thumb up

It kind of does translate into that when you've said that before, combined with the fact you popped into a thread just to say "thank you for posting because there's totally only 4 people posting here".

Which isn't the first time you've pointed it out. I'm curious though, there are other parts of the board where only a few select people do 99% of the posting. Do you go to the General Discussion Thread in the Off Topic forum and say this too? You do that, right? You go there and occasionally point out only the same people more or less keep posting?

Time-Immemorial
^thumb up

laughing out loud

#owned

Stigma
Originally posted by krisblaze
You're stupid thumb up
That's rich coming from an ignorant buffoon like you thumb up

LOL What exactly are you even contesting, that the US is a republic?

And my remark on democracy comes from some crazy, silly dude you possibly have never heard of, I guess.

"Democracy leads to anarchy, which is mob rule." - Plato

Scribble
Originally posted by Surtur
It kind of does translate into that when you've said that before, combined with the fact you popped into a thread just to say "thank you for posting because there's totally only 4 people posting here".

Which isn't the first time you've pointed it out. I'm curious though, there are other parts of the board where only a few select people do 99% of the posting. Do you go to the General Discussion Thread in the Off Topic forum and say this too? You do that, right? You go there and occasionally point out only the same people more or less keep posting? Whilst that is a fair point in a number of ways, us over at the OTF and GDT generally welcome people to join us, don't take pride in pushing people away from the forum, and don't flame each other constantly (at least not in a serious manner).

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by Scribble
Whilst that is a fair point in a number of ways, us over at the OTF and GDT generally welcome people to join us, don't take pride in pushing people away from the forum, and don't flame each other constantly (at least not in a serious manner).

thumb up

Some points are above the heads of the people on here. Funny post for surtur though. Valiant attempt.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Stigma
That's rich coming from an ignorant buffoon like you thumb up

LOL What exactly are you even contesting, that the US is a republic?

And my remark on democracy comes from some crazy, silly dude you possibly have never heard of, I guess.

"Democracy leads to anarchy, which is mob rule." - Plato

thumb up

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Scribble
Whilst that is a fair point in a number of ways, us over at the OTF and GDT generally welcome people to join us, don't take pride in pushing people away from the forum, and don't flame each other constantly (at least not in a serious manner).

Thats not what he said though. An OFT with no subject other then to post whatever comes to mind has no controversial issues, and like you said, you don't want to talk about politics over there, so your response is a non started my friend. Psmtih (aka slow warehouse) just comes here to make one off troll statements about something that happens in every forum, he's mad t he forum doesn't revolve around him, and that him "leaving" is something we should regret. We don't.

Time-Immemorial
Liberals are ok with abortions right up until birth. They value animal life more then human life. The are ok with Japan and China and Mexico ripping us off on trade. Countries like Japan and China don't allow immigration of any Syrian Refugees, or refugees period, Mexico its harder to become a Mexican citizen then in America. Yet they are ok with those countries getting the better deal, keeping out everyone who would want to come in.

All while the liberals live in America and foreign liberals, criticizing American and how bad we are on immigration, how we don't give out enough welfare, and how we should do more.

This is on top of us sending out jobs to China and Mexico.

They say the ignore the constitution and say does not give citizens the right to bear arms even though it specifically does, all the while saying the the constitution grants people of the opposite sex to use the restroom and shower with the opposite sex.

We spent all Memorial Day talking about gorilla gate, instead of talking about how some service members saved some peoples lives. And the Memorial thread had to get moved and closed because people could not shut their mouths.

Black lives matter tried to say that the zoo was because of white privilege, but the baby that the zoo keeper saved was black.

MS Warehouse
https://i.imgflip.com/8fjrj.jpg

Time-Immemorial
^http://67.media.tumblr.com/33f7c21a61e18c4922648f84e3066835/tumblr_inline_ntsz5vC8x71rkf4dx_500.gif

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Liberals are ok with abortions right up until birth. They value animal life more then human life. The are ok with Japan and China and Mexico ripping us off on trade. Countries like Japan and China don't allow immigration of any Syrian Refugees, or refugees period, Mexico its harder to become a Mexican citizen then in America. Yet they are ok with those countries getting the better deal, keeping out everyone who would want to come in.

All while the liberals live in America and foreign liberals, criticizing American and how bad we are on immigration, how we don't give out enough welfare, and how we should do more.

This is on top of us sending out jobs to China and Mexico.

They say the ignore the constitution and say does not give citizens the right to bear arms even though it specifically does, all the while saying the the constitution grants people of the opposite sex to use the restroom and shower with the opposite sex.

We spent all Memorial Day talking about gorilla gate, instead of talking about how some service members saved some peoples lives. And the Memorial thread had to get moved and closed because people could not shut their mouths.

Black lives matter tried to say that the zoo was because of white privilege, but the baby that the zoo keeper saved was black.

So that's a whole load of right wing talking points and complaints right there so I'm not gonna tackle them all because I have things to do.

But in terms of the US trading with countries like Mexico and China, and then companies sending jobs to those countries, it's all a natural extension and consequence of the free market trading that the US champions. I mean, what would the solutions be? Force companies to employ US citizens? Then those companies would be just as likely to completely remove themselves from the US to save money.

To force corporations to do anything requires federal or state oversight, something that conservatives complain about all the time. It's an issue that is ludicrously difficult to tackle, especially due to the globalisation of so many corporations, giving them the chance to cut costs wherever they can, which they will because a corporation that's goal is simply profit has no reason to care about people not having jobs etc.

Time-Immemorial
No, not really its factual.

Surtur
Originally posted by Scribble
Whilst that is a fair point in a number of ways, us over at the OTF and GDT generally welcome people to join us, don't take pride in pushing people away from the forum, and don't flame each other constantly (at least not in a serious manner).

Lol please, I've seen walshy tell people to leave the thread. so it's a fair point in pretty much every way. I know the response will be that it was a joke, which well..what do you say to that?

Also, posters have ducked away from this forum to run to that thread to talk trash about this forum. It's not some innocent all accepting place like you seem to make it out to be Which is fine and all, but let's not make it out to be something it is not.

So I expect Warehouse to pop in there by the end of the day.

Time-Immemorial
Come look how he acts here in the other part of the forum.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=625725&pagenumber=7#post15772128

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Digi
Relax TI, there's no need to put words in my mouth. "Lol" would have sufficed for what was an obvious joke.

But sure, not responding super seriously to bait threads on dead internet forums must make me a sheeple.

I wouldn't even mind debating some of these more controversial or polarizing topics. There are likely fascinating sociological points to unearth. But there has to be a little bit of good faith on both sides, or it's just a pointless exercise. It's not the topic I detest, it's the heavy-handed, agenda-laden approach to debate that permeates not just KMC but these topics as a whole. It serves only to help people reinforce their own beliefs while giving them a faint sense of righteousness. I have no use for either of those things.
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
So that's a whole load of right wing talking points and complaints right there so I'm not gonna tackle them all because I have things to do.

But in terms of the US trading with countries like Mexico and China, and then companies sending jobs to those countries, it's all a natural extension and consequence of the free market trading that the US champions. I mean, what would the solutions be? Force companies to employ US citizens? Then those companies would be just as likely to completely remove themselves from the US to save money.

To force corporations to do anything requires federal or state oversight, something that conservatives complain about all the time. It's an issue that is ludicrously difficult to tackle, especially due to the globalisation of so many corporations, giving them the chance to cut costs wherever they can, which they will because a corporation that's goal is simply profit has no reason to care about people not having jobs etc.

Intelligent. Eloquent.....impressed

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
So that's a whole load of right wing talking points and complaints right there so I'm not gonna tackle them all because I have things to do.

But in terms of the US trading with countries like Mexico and China, and then companies sending jobs to those countries, it's all a natural extension and consequence of the free market trading that the US champions. I mean, what would the solutions be? Force companies to employ US citizens? Then those companies would be just as likely to completely remove themselves from the US to save money.

To force corporations to do anything requires federal or state oversight, something that conservatives complain about all the time. It's an issue that is ludicrously difficult to tackle, especially due to the globalisation of so many corporations, giving them the chance to cut costs wherever they can, which they will because a corporation that's goal is simply profit has no reason to care about people not having jobs etc.

No, you give companies incentives to stay here, and if they still leave, you tax their goods coming back in. Why is is asinine to think maybe we should force US companies to employ US citizens in America. I mean what an original thought provoking idea.

Its not hard at all, the government forces the America people to do things all the time, like pay taxes, so the government can't tax the corporations that leave and want to import their goods back to the US at a 35% rate? Guess what would happen, they would not leave.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
No, you give companies incentives to stay here, and if they still leave, you tax their goods coming back in. Why is is asinine to think maybe we should force US companies to employ US citizens in America. I mean what an original thought provoking idea.

Its not hard at all, the government forces the America people to do things all the time, like pay taxes, so the government can't tax the corporations that leave and want to import their goods back to the US at a 35% rate? Guess what would happen, they would not leave.

Thats not capitalism though. That's actually a shit strategy that would never work. Companies would leave the States and simply find better markets.

The problem is that we are a nation of entitled consumers. Why pay an American 10.00 an hour for what I can pay a "insert country" 4 dollars a day to do? With less shit to deal with like insurance, unfair conditions etc. On top of the fact that our culture is obsessed with all things made overseas we brought about our own failure

Time-Immemorial
Why pay other countries people and governments money when we can make it here. Who cares if it costs more. We raise minimum wage.

snowdragon
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Thats not capitalism though. That's actually a shit strategy that would never work. Companies would leave the States and simply find better markets.



Good luck with that kind of thinking. The USA is a HUGE consumer of goods and services. So I say good luck finding a better market with as much consumer spending as the in the USA.

Surtur
To me the more pressing issue was the violence at the rallies, and the willingness of the police to ignore it. These are real problems.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by snowdragon
Good luck with that kind of thinking. The USA is a HUGE consumer of goods and services. So I say good luck finding a better market with as much consumer spending as the in the USA.
Best trade war is the trade war not fought. Trump's stated economic policies would lead to major economic conflicts with our second and third largest trading partners. And yet his supporters think he'd be good for the economy...

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Best trade war is the trade war not fought. Trump's stated economic policies would lead to major economic conflicts with our second and third largest trading partners. And yet his supporters think he'd be good for the economy...

I'm sorry, please remind me how Hilary or Bernie are better for the economy?

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Why pay other countries people and governments money when we can make it here. Who cares if it costs more. We raise minimum wage.


Youre not making any sense. You're touting capitalism but your arguments are socislistic

Originally posted by snowdragon
Good luck with that kind of thinking. The USA is a HUGE consumer of goods and services. So I say good luck finding a better market with as much consumer spending as the in the USA.

The us cant force companies to hire more americans when americans do even buy American. We are a consumer culture yes..but we do not consume our own goods

snowdragon
Originally posted by Sin I AM
We are a consumer culture yes..but we do not consume our own goods

We are a service nation today and yes we consume that as well as manufactured goods.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Youre not making any sense. You're touting capitalism but your arguments are socislistic



The us cant force companies to hire more americans when americans do even buy American. We are a consumer culture yes..but we do not consume our own goods

Actually you can, its called, nationalism, unlike what the liberals want which globalism. As per John Kerry idiotic statement.

"The future demands from us something more than a nostalgia for some rose-tinted version of the past that did not really exist in any case,” Kerry declared. “You’re about to graduate into a complex and borderless world.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/07/john-kerry-advises-fancypants-college-grads-to-expect-borderless-world-hammers-trump/#ixzz4B0QGseut

NewGuy01
Modern Liberalism is essentially just the political philosophy of social tolerance and government regulation of the economy. That's it. Like any other political philosophy, there are several different kinds of groups that branch out from this way of thinking, but asserting that there's something about Liberalism itself that somehow subverts Democracy makes little to no sense at all.

Of course, it's not like there's anyone here who doesn't already know this.

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