Kenth Hamner vs Ludo Kressh

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SunRazer
Let's see which camp wins...

carthage
mmm

SunRazer
This might be the first time you haven't been able to make up your mind in a thread, Carthage. Or at least, it's a rare occurrence.

SunRazer
Wollf, you thought Kenth beats Meetra. Can he beat Kressh as well?

Jmanghan
As Kreia said "Had you faced Ancient Sith in combat, you would learn we are mere children playing with toys compard to them".

Or something or other.

Point is Kressh would stomp Meetra's entire team.

Fated Xtasy
I love Kotor2 but Meetras team wasn't anything special lol.

I think Kenth wins he is pretty skilled so.

JKBart
Ludo's gauntlet doesn't stack up to his other abilities. Kenth wins clearly.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I love Kotor2 but Meetras team wasn't anything special lol.

I think Kenth wins he is pretty skilled so. Her entire team??

We're talking Darth Traya and Meetra Surik.

AncientPower
She is referring to lightsaber skill, not Force powers.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by AncientPower
She is referring to lightsaber skill, not Force powers. Thats still saying a lot.

And there's no way that Meetra or Darth Traya is taking Ludo Kressh, someone who fought evenly with Naga Sadow.

AncientPower
How is Sadow some unreachable level of Force prowess again? Sadow being shit all compared to Nihilus without his gear is self-evident and yet Nihilus went down to Meetra's ingenuity and eventually her power.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by AncientPower
How is Sadow some unreachable level of Force prowess again? Sadow being shit all compared to Nihilus without his gear is self-evident and yet Nihilus went down to Meetra's ingenuity and eventually her power. Sadow ****ed around with Stars for fun.

That alone completely shits on anything in KOTOR2.

AncientPower
Aleema Keto > Naga Sadow confirmed.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by AncientPower
Aleema Keto > Naga Sadow confirmed. As in, caused them to go Supernova.

AncientPower
Keto caused the entire Cron Cluster to go supernova, ten stars.

Jmanghan
Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh were considerd the strongest sith lords after Ragnos' died, bar none.

Jmanghan
Just in case you ask.

AncientPower
I'd call that switching the goal posts, but you just switched the stadium.

Jmanghan
You were talking about Naga Sadow after I brought him up, so I just put that to clear that he was the strongest.

Jmanghan
Regardless, Ludo Kressh was right next to him as second strongest.

AncientPower
Yes and what you just posted has no relevance at all. Besides Sadow using the Corsair, like Aleema, to cause supernovas, what does Sadow have making him so powerful that Surik's entire crew, including Traya and Surik herself, cannot hope to defeat Ludo Kressh?

Jmanghan
Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes and what you just posted has no relevance at all. Besides Sadow using the Corsair, like Aleema, to cause supernovas, what does Sadow have making him so powerful that Surik's entire crew, including Traya and Surik herself, cannot hope to defeat Ludo Kressh? Karness Murr humiliated Darth Krayt in a weak host.

That alone, and having Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh comparatively above him, puts them much higher then both of them and also Kenth Hamner.

AncientPower
Karness Muur isn't relevant to that accolade as he died millennia prior.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Karness Murr humiliated Darth Krayt in a weak host.

That alone, and having Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh comparatively above him, puts them much higher then both of them and also Kenth Hamner. Oh, and Kressh is powerful enough to destroy a giant statue with TK by clenching his fist.

JKBart
Well, Kenth is capable of collapsing some metal structure mid-duel with Saba (being especially pressed since she's his clear superior in combat), pinning Kyp Durron to the wall and stuff like that.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good feat no doubt, but Kenth has better.

Jmanghan
They are claimed as the most powerful of *ALL* the Ancient Sith besides Ragnos.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by JKBart
Well, Kenth is capable of collapsing some metal structure mid-duel with Saba (being especially pressed since she's his clear superior in combat), pinning Kyp Durron to the wall and stuff like that.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good feat no doubt, but Kenth has better. Its the fact he did it without even gesturing towards it, the mere clench of his fist in general caused the damn thing to get completely destroyed.

AncientPower
It does not say in all of history, but among the Sith Lords the Sith elders were choosing for the title of Dark Lord, Sadow was strongest.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by AncientPower
It does not say in all of history, but among the Sith Lords the Sith elders were choosing for the title of Dark Lord, Sadow was strongest. ...And Kressh was second strongest.

So what you're saying is, Hamner could have taken either one of them?

Speaking of that, why Hamner?

He wasn't nearly the strongest Jedi there, not on the levels of Kyle Katarn, or even Jaden Korr.

AncientPower
Which is irrelevant, Ludo Kressh was second strongest among the all of two present candidates that actually have any feats or noteworthy status.

You claimed Kressh via Traya's claim should stomp Surik's entire party and have yet to give a single reason why that is remotely accurate.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by AncientPower
Which is irrelevant, Ludo Kressh was second strongest among the all of two present candidates that actually have any feats or noteworthy status.

You claimed Kressh via Traya's claim should stomp Surik's entire party and have yet to give a single reason why that is remotely accurate. Because she states it, and Chris Avellone confirmed it.

AncientPower
The ancient Sith's skills with a lightsaber were more advanced, in what way does that even remotely suggest Ludo Kressh stomping Darth Traya, Meetra Surik, Visas Marr, Mical, HK-47, T3-M4, Brianna, Bao-Dur, Mandalore the Preserver, Mira, G0-T0 and Atton Rand?

Jmanghan
Originally posted by AncientPower
The ancient Sith's skills with a lightsaber were more advanced, in what way does that even remotely suggest Ludo Kressh stomping Darth Traya, Meetra Surik, Visas Marr, Mical, HK-47, T3-M4, Brianna, Bao-Dur, Mandalore the Preserver, Mira, G0-T0 and Atton Rand? Far FARRRRR more advanced.

I don't think you realize how much lightsaber combat matters.

JKBart
I don't think AP talks about lightsaber combat as a whole in regard of this quote from Kreia. Instead, he is referring to his notion that the quote is about the technique the Ancient Sith wielded, not combat as a whole, and for Force Sensitives, technique and forms is just a part of what makes someone a good duelist.

Trocity
I think you're overstating how much more advanced their skill was.

"Far, FARRRRRRRRRR" more advanced... there's a ceiling to skill level, even Yoda/Sidious/Luke aren't far, FARRRRRRR more skilled than like Dooku or Mace.

Kressh gets absolutely annihilated by all those people.

MythLord
Originally posted by SunRazer
Wollf, thought Kenth beats Meetra. Can he beat Kressh as well?

It depends into how much stock you put in to Ludo being a supposed peer of Sadow. We know he stalemated him, but that fight was cut short after only a couple of bladeclashes and canonical evidence says Sadow is ahead of Ludo in power.

It also matters if Kressh has his gauntlets or not, cause those things can give Haazen the power to kill Jedi(granted fodder Jedi, but Jedi nonetheless).

Fated Xtasy
Lol @this lightsaber talk.

Didn't Ludo use a sword instead of saber?

Aurbere
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Lol @this lightsaber talk.

Didn't Ludo use a sword instead of saber?

Yup.

NewGuy01
Holistically, Ludo.

Nai
Originally posted by AncientPower
The ancient Sith's skills with a lightsaber were more advanced, in what way does that even remotely suggest Ludo Kressh stomping Darth Traya, Meetra Surik, Visas Marr, Mical, HK-47, T3-M4, Brianna, Bao-Dur, Mandalore the Preserver, Mira, G0-T0 and Atton Rand?

In the way that, apparently, allowed Tulak Hord to singlehandly kill an army of 1,000 Jedi. In the way that makes Kreia compare herself and the Exile's crew to children with toys when they would face an Ancient Sith in combat. In the way that Luke Skywalker suggests that even the entirety of the Jedi Academy (including himself) might not be enough to stop a fully ressurected Ragnos.

You maybe want to understand, that the Ancient Sith were ascending to their positions through combat and most of them were far more than a century old (e.g. Sadow and Kressh apparently witnessed Ragnos duel with Simus, which happened 100 or 150 years in the past). So those people have probably seen more combat action against other Force users than anybody else in the mythos (save for the members of the Army of Light / Brotherhood of Darkness maybe). On top of that, they have abilities up their sleeve, that baffled the likes of post-DE Luke Skywalker (who had no defense against the stuff Kyp and Kun used against him, when Kun gained his knowledge pretty much from Sadow only).

And Kressh is, apparently, Sadow's equal. Sadow, who has been heralded as one of the most powerful Sith sorcerers in history. Sadow who destroys star-systems just to get rid of some people pursuing him. I mean, really: The fact alone that Freedon Nadd, taking Sadow's knowledge, was capable of conquering Onderon one-man-army style (defeating an army of drexl-riding beastriders, when one of those things almost killed Bane) should give you a hint of what ancient Sith are capable of in combat.

So Kenth does what exactly?

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Nai
So Kenth does what exactly? Make a wish?

AncientPower
Originally posted by Nai
In the way that, apparently, allowed Tulak Hord to singlehandly kill an army of 1,000 Jedi. In the way that makes Kreia compare herself and the Exile's crew to children with toys when they would face an Ancient Sith in combat. In the way that Luke Skywalker suggests that even the entirety of the Jedi Academy (including himself) might not be enough to stop a fully ressurected Ragnos.

You maybe want to understand, that the Ancient Sith were ascending to their positions through combat and most of them were far more than a century old (e.g. Sadow and Kressh apparently witnessed Ragnos duel with Simus, which happened 100 or 150 years in the past). So those people have probably seen more combat action against other Force users than anybody else in the mythos (save for the members of the Army of Light / Brotherhood of Darkness maybe). On top of that, they have abilities up their sleeve, that baffled the likes of post-DE Luke Skywalker (who had no defense against the stuff Kyp and Kun used against him, when Kun gained his knowledge pretty much from Sadow only).

And Kressh is, apparently, Sadow's equal. Sadow, who has been heralded as one of the most powerful Sith sorcerers in history. Sadow who destroys star-systems just to get rid of some people pursuing him. I mean, really: The fact alone that Freedon Nadd, taking Sadow's knowledge, was capable of conquering Onderon one-man-army style (defeating an army of drexl-riding beastriders, when one of those things almost killed Bane) should give you a hint of what ancient Sith are capable of in combat.

So Kenth does what exactly?

Tulak Hord's accolades with a lightsaber defecate on Ludo Kressh's.

The only example one can really take with any sign that Kreia is not being entirely hyperbolic is when Exar Kun slaughters Vodo in lightsaber combat, he exclaims 'See how powerful the Sith teachings are when used correctly!'. This notably being after Exar Kun gained the Dark Holocron, sources also suggest this Sith knowledge is where Kun gained his saberstaff design.

Now skill is clearly important but how, pray tell, does Ludo survive a massive bombardment of Force powers and heavy weaponry from the off? His actual feats don't point to him B-teaming at all.

Nai
Originally posted by AncientPower
Tulak Hord's accolades with a lightsaber defecate on Ludo Kressh's.


Which doesn't translate into Kressh being far inferior to Hord, given that Kreia referenced the "Ancient Sith" as a whole when talking about Hord, throwing him and Kressh into one pot.



Or, you know, the stories as mentioned above, namely:


Hord singlehandly defeating an army of 1,000 Jedi.
Nadd destroying an army of drexl-riding beast riders


With Nadd operating with knowledge coming from Sadow, who was in turn considered to be equal to Kressh in combat. We could add the fact, that Kun walked right across a battlefield with airstrikes going on next to him, not caring much about anything, and remaining untouched by shrapnel and fire. Apparently, engaging Ancient Sith - or people using their knowledge - in a military fashion is rather ineffective. wink



By putting on the amulet he constructed for his son and laughing it off?

Seriously. You may want to ponder about the force abilities of somebody who can construct an artifact like that. And you may want to reverse your point of view: Who of the Exile's team is going to survive a bombardement of Sith magic, which is to be expected from Kressh? And furthermore: What "bombardement of Force powers" are you even talking about? The only crewmember of the Exile to canonically use the Force in an offensive fashion is Kreia. wink

But back to the topic: This is Kressh vs. Hamner. wink

Jmanghan
Bump.

Ursumeles
Bump
Hamner.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Holistically, Ludo.

But actual feat wise? Hammer, kek.

Ursumeles
thumb up

Jmanghan
Nai casually destroyed all arguments in the thread, so posting any more is stupid unless you're Beni, Stealth Moose, or Gideon.

Ursumeles
Nah. I 'll tomorrow make an case for Hamner.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Nah. I 'll tomorrow make an case for Hamner. Against Nai?

Ursumeles
Is he even active anymore?
No, just so, but I 'll try to counter Nais best arguments.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Nai casually destroyed all arguments in the thread, so posting any more is stupid unless you're Beni, Stealth Moose, or Gideon.

Get Nai's dick outta your mouth, lmao.

Ursumeles
Nai debates like Ziggy. Lol.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Get Nai's dick outta your mouth, lmao. I prefer to recognize good arguments as opposed to just arguing because I want X to beat Y.

Ursumeles
I see the Daughter>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ragnos because of Arguments, not because I want that she beats him :/

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by Jmanghan
I prefer to recognize good arguments as opposed to just arguing because I want X to beat Y.

You say that as if the two can't be, and aren't, interchangeable.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by Ursumeles
I see the Daughter>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ragnos because of Arguments, not because I want that she beats him :/ What the **** are you talking about?

Ursumeles
You said that she can't stomp Ragnos :/

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