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So how powerful is MandoWars Meetra, Kotor2 Meetra and Novel Meetra?

Where would you rank each iteration?

Who is the strongest person they can beat?

Which is the more skilled duelists? Most powerful force user?

Idfk about Mando Wars Meetra, but KOTOR2 Meetra and Novel Meetra seem roughly the same level aside from the Wound Abilities.

And as sketchy as the Mando Wars Revan/Nihilus comparison seems to some people, I think the quote should at least be taken as an admittance of Meetra's own inferiority to Mando Wars Revan in any of her incarnations.

Mandalorian Wars Meetra can match Aayla Secura in a lightsaber duel. She's about even with Luminara or Quinlan (Legends, obviously, stop asking if I mean DD in every thread, fugg DD).

Her prime KotOR self should be somewhere in the area between Obi-Wan Kenobi and Plo Koon as combatants, which is pretty debatable since so many characters fit between these two. Let's say I would put her clearly above Darth Nihl or Darth Talon, but not so far as to reach Kenobi level, definitely. Closer to Obi-Wan, than to Plo, though.
Can't really rate her as a Force user. Honestly? Her feats as combatant are incredible, and she bested enormously power people in all-out combat, but her feats in the Force alone are lagging behind. Her best accomplishment is being definitely outside of the ragdoll-tier for Kreia and Nihilus, but that's it.

Novel iteration should be considerably weaker - Exile's power derived from her bonds and her "wound" status, which is explicitly stated in the game. How weaker? Not to her Mandalorian Wars level, but can't really say much outside of it.

Originally posted by JKBart
Mandalorian Wars Meetra can match Aayla Secura in a lightsaber duel. She's about even with Luminara or Quinlan (Legends, obviously, stop asking if I mean DD in every thread, fugg DD).

Her prime KotOR self should be somewhere in the area between Obi-Wan Kenobi and Plo Koon as combatants, which is pretty debatable since so many characters fit between these two. Let's say I would put her clearly above Darth Nihl or Darth Talon, but not so far as to reach Kenobi level, definitely. Closer to Obi-Wan, than to Plo, though.
Can't really rate her as a Force user. Honestly? Her feats as combatant are incredible, and she bested enormously power people in all-out combat, but her feats in the Force alone are lagging behind. Her best accomplishment is being definitely outside of the ragdoll-tier for Kreia and Nihilus, but that's it.

Novel iteration should be considerably weaker - Exile's power derived from her bonds and her "wound" status, which is explicitly stated in the game. How weaker? Not to her Mandalorian Wars level, but can't really say much outside of it.

.....



Though I'd put her above Kenobi (simply on the basis Kenobi could not replicate her Malachor feat or her Ravager feat), surprisingly solid analysis mmm

Probably Darach tier. I could see people like Kas'im/Luminara Unduli taking her on though, anyone from Zallow/Raskta Lsu upward to Mara Jade/Kenobi would demolish her

She's never struck me as all that good, nowhere near one of the greatest

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Idfk about Mando Wars Meetra, but KOTOR2 Meetra and Novel Meetra seem roughly the same level aside from the Wound Abilities.

The entire point of this thread is determining how much of a difference the wound made

Interesting.

So Kotor Meetra>Mando Meetra>Novel Meetra? Or... Nah?

She's probably not weaker than she was at Mandalorian Wars, but also far from her KotOR II prime.

Originally posted by JKBart
She's probably not weaker than she was at Mandalorian Wars, but also far from her KotOR II prime.

Interesting. I'll post my thoughts when i get on my pc

She's capable of defending herself from Dooku tier Force attacks(Traya and Nyriss) and her lightsaber skills are masterful composite/ambidextrous in their use. She clearly surpassed every duelist she came across and is quite possibly better than Revan in skill.

I don't like to put a pedestal up for her, but it is telling that she completely out-performs Lord Scourge in their duel with Nyriss, who B-team Scourge from the onset. After some centuries, including 1,100 combats Scourge manages to stalemate with the Hero of Tython.

One could make the comparison there but it requires hefty scaling.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
So how powerful is MandoWars Meetra, Kotor2 Meetra and Novel Meetra?

Where would you rank each iteration?

Who is the strongest person they can beat?

Which is the more skilled duelists? Most powerful force user?
They're all within ragdoll level of SoR Revan.

Revan is Meetra's most powerful incarnation; none of them could be considered conventionally competitive with Jedi like Obi-Wan or Revan.

So Obi-Wan on Vjun, after a previous battle, could fight his way through a legion of Magnaguards before killing Savage Oppress and then killing Count Dooku?

Because that is the rough equivalent of Meetra's greatest composite feat.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Because that is the rough equivalent of Meetra's greatest composite feat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWdD206eSv0

Yes, yes, we all know how infinitely superior Revan's Star Forge feat was, you can put his c*ck back now.

Non-jobbing Kenobi would have Surik in pieces in seconds.

>Can't take Ventress solidly.
>Can defeat Meetra in seconds.

Cancer.

I'm talking about the RotS novel Kenobi who molested Dooku in a lightsaber duel - not the pre-Outer Rim Sieges Kenobi who's admittedly pretty poor compared to his later self.

So he shits on Revan, good to know.

Originally posted by AncientPower
So he shits on Revan, good to know.
http://i35.servimg.com/u/f35/18/71/58/99/kek10.png

It's ok to be special Ant.

I can see Kenobi replicating every feat Meetra accomplished without the smallest of doubt. The only exception is obviously Nihilus, but that's because of the wound-stuff.

Banter.

Anyways.

Personally Kotor 2 Meetra should be her prime, due to the considerable power boost she receives from her five apprentices and of course the power she should still be able use the Bond even on Malachor Five, but that's my personal opinion. Still, if we disregard that KoTOR Meetra's own potential obviously outstrips that of her apprentices(something that's implied numerous times in-game) So it's not a boost that I think completely powers her up, but rather, it acts as a reservoir of energy that she can fall back on should she exhaust her own.(That's how I've always seen it, at least.) That's not even delving into the fact that the death she causes(as a DS or LS Jedi) continuously empowers her and such.

In my opinion, the knowledge she gained from the Wound did stay with her(forms and such, thus why she wasn't completely owned by Nyriss), but the constant power boosts of death were more akin to a temporary amplification that she obviously stopped from consuming her by healing the Wound.(Healing the wound would explain why she is able to resist Nathema's weird planet life sucky thing)

With her own personal power being(theoretically)returned to normal/cut in half. I think her potential in the Revan novelization was superior to that of MandoWars Meetra, but because of the serious lack of Death Amps and her biggest pool of power being effectively eliminated(Kreia) she's lost a portion of her old natural ability that while not significant enough to make her a scrub, was significant enough to essentially make her a nerfed character.

In closing, KotOR 2 Meetra has always been above the rest, mainly because her feats in that timeline, plus her Wound abilities, her own natural talent, the power of her allies, and the (Once again, in my opinion) temporary Death boosts she received really helped her in battle. Where as Novel Meetra had the knowledge and bonds with her allies, she lacked Wound to help her out in several instances.

Thoughts?

He's facing an army of Sith that can drain him at will, Darth Sion almost killed Surik with drain on the droid planet. Evidently she is liable to all those drain attacks herself, Nihilus being an exception. Kenobi wouldn't survive the Malachor V guantlet in the same state Meetra would have been.

Being a Wound in the Force doesn't actually make Surik immune to Drain in general - it just counters Nihilus because they're "polar opposites" or some shit that isn't explained well at all.

There has never been any evidence supporting the bond-amped Meetra, that was invented to lower her feats, she learnt techniques from them and they learned from her in turn. They could more easily support each other with passive support but that doesn't amount to nearly the same as a genuine boost in power.

The death amp boost is also purely theory invented by those same people, her connection to the Force was restored by those deaths feeding and closing her wound, reestablishing her power and restoring her to her full potential. It wasn't some constant regenerative boost present in all battles.

Originally posted by AncientPower
There has never been any evidence supporting the bond-amped Meetra, that was invented to lower her feats, she learnt techniques from them and they learned from her in turn. They could more easily support each other with passive support but that doesn't amount to nearly the same as a genuine boost in power.

Doesn't Kreia outright say that she actively draws from her allies

Don't get all defensive, it's how I see things tbh, and makes sense from how force bonds generally work.

One Bond allows Revan and Bastila to support one another, according to Bastila. A Bond between six people? You cannot seriously look at me and say that wouldn't give her a considerable power boost.

No she does not, the bond has limits, Kreia advises she can draw strength from her allies and then leave them when used... if she's dark side, which isn't at all the case with Meetra Surik who rejects the idea completely in a light side conversation.

Originally posted by AncientPower
No she does not, the bond has limits, Kreia advises she can draw strength from her allies and then leave them when used... if she's dark side, which isn't at all the case with Meetra Surik who rejects the idea completely in a light side conversation.

Yeah, because she obviously has a choice in drawing on their power right? Just like she chose to deny Kreia's pain when the Lady of Betrayal lost her hand, right?

Oh wait! She didn't.

.....What?

Meetra and Traya both learn to defend their minds from such mistakes after Sion take Kreia's first hand off.

Kreia numerous times tells Meetra she should use her allies to gain their strength but Meetra rejects her advice and tells her they are friends and allies, not expendables.

Without that all the bond does is give Meetra influence over her party and allows for easier mutual passive applications of generic Force amplifications such as Valor or Battle Meditation.

Meetra is stated by Revan to be far more powerful than he thought she had the potential to be in the Mando Wars, so clearly her power isn't reliant on her party members.

Source for literally anything you said before the last line, which just has shit logic?

Originally posted by AncientPower
.....What?

Meetra and Traya both learn to defend their minds from such mistakes after Sion take Kreia's first hand off.

Kreia numerous times tells Meetra she should use her allies to gain their strength but Meetra rejects her advice and tells her they are friends and allies, not expendables.

Without that all the bond does is give Meetra influence over her party and allows for easier mutual passive applications of generic Force amplifications such as Valor or Battle Meditation.

Meetra is stated by Revan to be far more powerful than he thought she had the potential to be in the Mando Wars, so clearly her power isn't reliant on her party members.

So two ability that help in battle, are passive now?

You do know that Valor is Force Augmentation right? and Battle Meditation... well it has battle in it's name, could I be any clearer?

Have you forgotten that Meetra formed a Bond with everyone regardless of whether or not she wanted to? lol. She can, if she likes or not, draw on their power. That's not something that can be controlled.

"You are a sipher, forming bonds, leeching the life of others. Siphoning their wills and dominating them. It is the teachings of these new sith, to feed on others, on other force sensitives."
-Vrook

"I fear that they have learned the lesson of malachor too well,it is what allows to prey on force users, to become stronger when Force Sensitives are near."
Kavar

"Somehow, they have learned their hunger from you."
Vrook.

Evidently, drawing on others and dominating them are two separate things. Given that the writers felt the need to mention that she leeches on their life force and dominates their wills.

Is there any evidence that points towards Meetra's drain only increasing her strength temporarily? Granted, it makes sense given Nihilus' situation, but it also doesn't make sense given that throughout the entire game she's become progressively stronger because of it. The fact that it's continuously built upon itself points toward it being a permanent change in power.

The Exile is stated to be a powerhouse of destruction on Malachor V, her, not just her + party:



The Exile chooses whether or not to use her party in that matter. The greatest example, perhaps, being this conversation:

https://youtu.be/s5w9LBcYu5g

Meetra Surik only learns how to draw strength from her allies in such drastic measures, if she takes the dark path. However Meetra is canonically light aligned, that is the differentiation you are failing to account for with your theory.

The technique the Sith use is the Force drain that the dark side Exile can use to kill the Masters themselves. All of the bond and wound abilities simply restored her connection to the Force normally in the light side path, as Zez-Kai Ell states, something you conveniently left out:



It fulfilled her potential, as Sion states that the Exile will surpass Traya's power in time:



She doesn't lose her power all of a sudden after KotOR II, given that she rebuilds the Jedi Order, training her apprentices to Mastery in the following years:



Then finally Revan calls her greater than he'd ever thought she could be when he'd known her during the Mandalorian Wars, even stating she was the only person who could have done so:

^^^

Lol. I'll respond when i get home.

Saying that Meetra is above Kenobi because he can't replicate her circumstantial feats are pretty ridiculous when you consider that Meetra can't stomp Grievous or beat RotS Anakin or Maul & Savage

Quite frankly I don't see the big deal about Nyriss beating Meetra tbh, there weren't all that many great duelists that Meetra actually encountered in KOTOR II

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Quite frankly I don't see the big deal about Nyriss beating Meetra tbh, there weren't all that many great duelists that Meetra actually encountered in KOTOR II .
For the record, i no longer have a problem with NYRISS>Meetra tbh. Nor am i trying to make novel Meetra look bad and make up an excuse for her loss.

I'd only just explain why i believe my position isn't entirely baseless.

Fair enough

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Saying that Meetra is above Kenobi because he can't replicate her circumstantial feats are pretty ridiculous when you consider that Meetra can't stomp Grievous or beat RotS Anakin or Maul & Savage

Que?

How are you basing the fact Meetra can't take on Grievous, beat a circumstantial RotS Anakin, or circumstantially beat Maul and Savage?

See, I'm basing Kenobi not being able to replicate her feats on:

- The fact most Jedi couldn't even survive traversing Malachor without falling to the Dark Side.
- The fact Kenobi has been man handled by Dooku, whereas Traya on a Dark Side Nexus could not overwhelm Surik with Telekinesis.
- The fact she was one of the few Jedi to reach enlightenment, which according to the Prima guide increased her Speed, Strength and Stamina to the highest levels achievable.
- The opinion that Kenobi lacks the stamina to replicate any part of her feat on Malachor.

... among other things. Whereas you're basing Surik not being able to replicate Kenobi's accomplishments on what, a lack of accolades given a lack of exploration? How highly you arbitrarily rank Traya and Sion as duelists? How weakened you think Nihilus was after his failure to drain Surik?

As one sided as it may be, Kenobi is explored in far greater detail than Surik is, so it's far easier to place him in her shoes than the other way around. Countering Kenobi's inability to replicate her feats with you believing she can't replicate his, doesn't quite work in the same way. We never saw Wound!Surik's limits, but we've seen Kenobi's.

Though I'm not saying she's his better in every way. I doubt she's a better duelist, etc. Just that I think holistically she edges him out.

Give Kenobi a Wound in the Force and a Force Bond with Kreia and I think he could. And he lacks stamina feats now? Someone should read The Cestus Deception.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Give Kenobi a Wound in the Force and a Force Bond with Kreia and I think he could. And he lacks stamina feats now? Someone should read The Cestus Deception.

Give Surik Sidious tier force pools and she'd be rivaling Yoda. What ridiculous logic.

And I've read The Cestus Deception, don't get cocky kid. Her stamina feat is far superior

Originally posted by Selenial
Give Surik Sidious tier force pools and she'd be rivaling Yoda. What ridiculous logic.

That's hardly the same. We were talking about circumstances. Take away Meetra's Wound and her Bond and she wouldn't have survived Malachor V either.

Originally posted by Selenial
And I've read The Cestus Deception, don't get cocky kid. Her stamina feat is far superior

Because? Fighting an equal of yourself for hours > fighting trash for hours.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
That's hardly the same. We were talking about circumstances. Take away Meetra's Wound and her Bond and she wouldn't have survived Malachor V either.

Except her wound is a permanent feature, and nothing suggests her bond was aiding her whatsoever. In fact, seeing as Traya planned to kill Surik should she not pass the trial alone, the notion that Traya was aiding her is utterly farcical.



Sparring with an equal of yourself < fighting through Storm Beasts, hundreds of Sith Assassins, Darth Sion four times and Darth Traya twice on one of the strongest Dark Side Nexuses in the galaxy...

Originally posted by Selenial
Except her wound is a permanent feature, and nothing suggests her bond was aiding her whatsoever. In fact, seeing as Traya planned to kill Surik should she not pass the trial alone, the notion that Traya was aiding her is utterly farcical.

Except the Wound protected her from Malachor V, otherwise she's only Revan Scourge level on a dark side nexus, who was struggling with droids


Originally posted by Selenial
Sparring with an equal of yourself < fighting through Storm Beasts, hundreds of Sith Assassins, Darth Sion four times and Darth Traya twice on one of the strongest Dark Side Nexuses in the galaxy...

Trash, trash, trash, and Traya. Yep totally beyond Kenobi's stamina.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Except the Wound protected her from Malachor V, otherwise she's only Revan Scourge level on a dark side nexus, who was struggling with droids


Source



Nice debating there, some truly solid work.

Originally posted by Selenial
Source

Don't make me go through all those threads back in swtor.com where you and Beni, and Aurb were saying the exact same thing to make sense of Meetra.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Don't make me go through all those threads back in swtor.com where you and Beni, and Aurb were saying the exact same thing to make sense of Meetra.

That her wound gave her power, yes. I can't attest to what I've said in the past regarding her wound and Malachor, but there's nothing to indicate that.

Even if her wound did such a thing, she still had to deal with crushing gravity (without the aid of the Dark Side like the Trayus academy had) and the echoes of screaming Jedi and Republic soldiers that rang through her head the entire time she was on the surface. Negative emotions effect a Jedi's ability to call on the force you know, and she still did what she did.

Welp two debates are now going on.

Sel thoughts on what I've said? Do try to be nice as my mind is always open to change

What crushing gravity?? According to the guide, Malachor V has standard gravity, nothing crushing about it.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
What crushing gravity?? According to the guide, Malachor V has standard gravity, nothing crushing about it.
...

"There is a world on the outer rim surrounded by mass shadows. Past the graveyard of Mandalorian warships this planet suffers. Crushed in gravity's fist. To walk on it's surface is to feel it crushing every cell of your being. It is like being buried alive until it seems you will never breathe again."

"Traversing it's surface had been agony. Mentally, she had still sensed the anguish of all who had lost their lives there. Physically, the intense gravity of the world had held her in its crushing grip, leaving her gasping for breath. It had been the most awful and horrific experience of her life."

Seems contradicting to the Guide, but w/e. I'm surprised the remote, GO-TO, HK and the Exile's party were able to survive such crushing gravity then.

^Comical Zoltan logic, as usual.

Her wound wasn't some miracle maker, she still felt all the deaths and the crushing gravity well. Which by the way made her severely physically and mentally ill whilst having to use breath control the entire time she fought Storm Beasts due to gas geysers in the surface.

Then she fought the most elite of Darth Revan's elite assassin cult, of which Atton Rand was a low tier. An entire legion of them, all of them amped by a geyser of dark side energy.

THEN she fought Darth Sion, the most elite swordsman of all the Sith Assassins, defeating soundly in four rounds whilst he was amprd and constantly regenerating.

THEN she fought Darth Traya, an easily Dooku tier Force user, and defeated her twice.

You can't just call them trash, appeal to Kenobi's vast exposure and expect anybody to take that as anything but desperation on your part.

Meetra Surik is a legendary Jedi alongside Revan, she's famed for her achievements even in SWTOR and Drew considers her likely more skilled than Revan himself.

You peopld lowball the living shit out of her over Darth Nyriss being physically superior on a potent dark side nexus after Meetra had suffered on Nathema, stated to have effected her far worse than Malachor V had. Then she takes it upon herself to not get any form of rest or sleep until a few hours with Revan and Lord Scourge prior to attacking the Sith Emperor. Six whole days later, after facing Darth Nyriss.

If you seriously believe Meetra was fighting in her full capacity when nearly physically and mentally broken before taking five days with no rest or sustenance, then you're hopeless.

Lord Scourge is not on Surik's level at all in the novel, Scourge gets taken out by one swipe of Nyriss' blade, whereas Meetra is stated to hold her ground in the duel but was physically pushed down to a knee by Nyriss' ferocity, which conveniently is something Scourge can gorge off. Against the Imperial Guards, Revan took one out, Scourge took Yarri and one other, then Meetra took four down single-handed.

Lord Scourge then gets some actual combat ecprrience with a 1,000+ Force user kills which Meetra almost certainly already had. At best Scourge grows and closes the gap as the Emperor's Wrath. Yet he stalemates Hero of Tython in a duel.

Originally posted by Selenial
Que?

How are you basing the fact Meetra can't take on Grievous, beat a circumstantial RotS Anakin, or circumstantially beat Maul and Savage?

See, I'm basing Kenobi not being able to replicate her feats on:

- The fact most Jedi couldn't even survive traversing Malachor without falling to the Dark Side.
- The fact Kenobi has been man handled by Dooku, whereas Traya on a Dark Side Nexus could not overwhelm Surik with Telekinesis.
- The fact she was one of the few Jedi to reach enlightenment, which according to the Prima guide increased her Speed, Strength and Stamina to the highest levels achievable.
- The opinion that Kenobi lacks the stamina to replicate any part of her feat on Malachor.

... among other things. Whereas you're basing Surik not being able to replicate Kenobi's accomplishments on what, a lack of accolades given a lack of exploration? How highly you arbitrarily rank Traya and Sion as duelists? How weakened you think Nihilus was after his failure to drain Surik?

As one sided as it may be, Kenobi is explored in far greater detail than Surik is, so it's far easier to place him in her shoes than the other way around. Countering Kenobi's inability to replicate her feats with you believing she can't replicate his, doesn't quite work in the same way. We never saw Wound!Surik's limits, but we've seen Kenobi's.

Though I'm not saying she's his better in every way. I doubt she's a better duelist, etc. Just that I think holistically she edges him out. Enlightenment KEK. It's a game mechanic.

That's some class-A retardation

Originally posted by Selenial
That her wound gave her power, yes. I can't attest to what I've said in the past regarding her wound and Malachor, but there's nothing to indicate that.

Even if her wound did such a thing, she still had to deal with crushing gravity (without the aid of the Dark Side like the Trayus academy had) and the echoes of screaming Jedi and Republic soldiers that rang through her head the entire time she was on the surface. Negative emotions effect a Jedi's ability to call on the force you know, and she still did what she did.

Well she got her Wound on Malachor V, it makes sense that it would protect her from it. Especially since it's an outlier feat for her.

She had to run away from Sion on Korriban, she was stompped by the 3 masters on Dantooine, and in the Dark Side path every master put up a fight against her.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Is there any evidence that points towards Meetra's drain only increasing her strength temporarily? Granted, it makes sense given Nihilus' situation, but it also doesn't make sense given that throughout the entire game she's become progressively stronger because of it. The fact that it's continuously built upon itself points toward it being a permanent change in power.

You're totally right, it should be permanent. Nihilus' was, he just overused the ability to the point of weakening if he didn't continue to use it. And if you drain the Masters you get a permanent boost to your Force points. Vrook says that you've gotten continually stronger as you've killed hundreds.

Also the whole meta point of the ability is as a stand in for exp and leveling. The Exile is constantly growing more and more powerful by killing enemies and by bonding with others through quests. You only ever go up, those levels aren't temporary.

Because Sion was amped by Korriban and wouldn't die.

She chooses to allow them to cut her off from the Force, she didn't fight back at all.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Because Sion was amped by Korriban and wouldn't die.
And Sion wasn't amped by the vastly greater nexus of Malachor?


I doubt it. Surik never backs down without a fight. And plus, that's just one of many dialogue options.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And Sion wasn't amped by the vastly greater nexus of Malachor?

Except there, she literally convinced him to die mmm

That's not contradicting my point. That's a seperate point all together. mmm

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
She had to run away from Sion on Korriban, she was stompped by the 3 masters on Dantooine, and in the Dark Side path every master put up a fight against her.

Coincidentally after those things she achieves enlightenment and massacres an army of Sith in time for her Malachor feat.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's not contradicting my point. That's a seperate point all together. mmm

Not really.

She fled on Korriban because:

A) he could not die
B) She could not convince him to die.

She won on Malachor because:

A) he could not die
B) She could convince him to die.

Quite simple mmm

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And Sion wasn't amped by the vastly greater nexus of Malachor?


I doubt it. Surik never backs down without a fight. And plus, that's just one of many dialogue options.

He was, but the Exile is midgame and nowhere near her strength on Malachor V, I thought you "kek she's amped" theorists would remember that.

Did you even play the game, you moron? If she fights back she gets dark side points and kills them all.

Originally posted by Selenial
Not really.

She fled on Korriban because:

A) he could not die
B) She could not convince him to die.

She won on Malachor because:

A) he could not die
B) She could convince him to die.

Quite simple mmm
Which part of my post said otherwise? mmm

Originally posted by ILS
Enlightenment KEK. It's a game mechanic.

That's some class-A retardation

Lol she canonically attains it and even the Revan novel references it, but like every technique she canonically attained, such as the forms, it has an in-game mechanic.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Which part of my post said otherwise? mmm

Well, Zoltan suggested running from Sion was a bad thing. AP corrected him, explaining Sion couldn't die... then you posted a rather irrelevant sentence about Malachor being the same. I was merely explaining the difference between Malachor and Korriban.

Though if you'd care to say what your original post meant, that might clear this up mmm

Originally posted by AncientPower
Did you even play the game, you moron? If she fights back she gets dark side points and kills them all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IUHYmgb2xE&t=2m52s

mmm

Kek.

She canonically doesn't kill them, Traya does, ergo she didn't fight back in canon. If she does she kills three powerful Jedi Masters single-handed. What are you even trying to prove?

Like even sourcebooks state she accepts the Council's judgement then Traya kills them all.

Originally posted by Selenial
Well, Zoltan suggested running from Sion was a bad thing. AP corrected him, explaining Sion couldn't die... then you posted a rather irrelevant sentence about Malachor being the same. I was merely explaining the difference between Malachor and Korriban.

Though if you'd care to say what your original post meant, that might clear this up mmm
Well, I wasn't paying attention to this shitfest. I just didn't know why the **** Korriban was a nexus was relevant to anything, so I decided to piss on AP.

Originally posted by AncientPower
She canonically doesn't kill them, Traya does, ergo she didn't fight back in canon. If she does she kills three powerful Jedi Masters single-handed. What are you even trying to prove?
I linked you to a dialogue option with Surik clearly not wanting them to do the severing but they do it anyway.

Trying to prove? That's it's pretty damn likely that Surik tried to defend herself with a Force barrier then.

What, do you expect her to yell "no, don't!" and then just sit there and do nothing?

Originally posted by AncientPower
She canonically doesn't kill them, Traya does, ergo she didn't fight back in canon. If she does she kills three powerful Jedi Masters single-handed. What are you even trying to prove?

He's showing that even the fight-back Dialogue has them freeze her.

Though, to be fair, iirc if you only kill one master (IE Kavarr) the other two turn on you on Dantooine and you kill them both. One could extrapolate from this that only the three masters in tandem could sever her, or that it's an indefensible technique mmm

Or that in canon it doesn't happen at all, sourcebooks. Not to mention that dialogue and the cutscene clearly shows the Exile caught off guard and wasn't defending herself.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Or that in canon it doesn't happen at all, sourcebooks.
Oh, did the KotORCG Limited Edition say Surik willingly accepted an unjust punishable? My apologies - I don't live in Canada.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Not to mention that dialogue and the cutscene clearly shows the Exile caught off guard and wasn't defending herself.
They specifically explained to her that they were going to cut her off. She had more time to defend herself then than in an actual combat situation.

You literally used non-canon events earlier in the thread to showcase Sion's abilities. That's some Neph-tier double standards

Lol that's your best?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Seems contradicting to the Guide, but w/e. I'm surprised the remote, GO-TO, HK and the Exile's party were able to survive such crushing gravity then.

Mind addressing this Sel? Since you and Beni like to have the Exile's party on Malachor to show how great Traya is. Yet if the gravity is so crushing, then why were they even able to survive it? So it seems the gravity isn't as crushing if people can just walk on it, or the Exile's party was never there OR the gravity on Malachor is standard.

Originally posted by Selenial
You literally used non-canon events earlier in the thread to showcase Sion's abilities. That's some Neph-tier double standards

She was caught offguard in that cutscene, watch the thing.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Mind addressing this Sel? Since you and Beni like to have the Exile's party on Malachor to show how great Traya is. Yet if the gravity is so crushing, then why were they even able to survive it? So it seems the gravity isn't as crushing, or the Exile's party was never there OR the gravity on Malachor is standard.

I mean, three different sources vs one? The gravity is crushing.

And the Exile's party being there doesn't really change much. The fact it's crushing still exists, they simply fought through it too. Difference is they didn't face the academy, since Traya wanted to capture them herself as bait. Not to mention the fact every fight they fought, they fought as four.

Do remember they're each powerful Jedi, essentially master level at this point, since they rebuilt the order.

Edit: also what guide mentions a normal gravity?

You went full AP with that master level bullshit, and you know it. I mean there's a giant ****ing holocron in the Jedi Temple, for god's sake. And of course them being there helps, when she siphers power from all of them.

No she doesn't as I've proven.

What source did you give that proved that? You just gave your opinion. But considering it's outright stated by that Jedi Council you keep trying to wank, I'll won't hold my breath regardless.

Originally posted by Selenial
I mean, three different sources vs one? The gravity is crushing.

And the Exile's party being there doesn't really change much. The fact it's crushing still exists, they simply fought through it too. Difference is they didn't face the academy, since Traya wanted to capture them herself as bait. Not to mention the fact every fight they fought, they fought as four.

Do remember they're each powerful Jedi, essentially master level at this point, since they rebuilt the order.

Edit: also what guide mentions a normal gravity?

The Kotor Campaign Guide, under the planets section.

....Ok so if they can fight through it, then why can't others? It doesn't seem as soul shattering as it's being made out to be.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
What source did you give that proved that? You just gave your opinion. But considering it's outright stated by that Jedi Council you keep trying to wank, I'll won't hold my breath regardless.

I provided a source, from the same Jedi Council, stating that the deaths and bonds were restoring her connection to the Force.

Give.
Me.
The.
Source.

If it's already in this thread, or somewhere else, you should have no problem providing it to me.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Give.
Me.
The.
Source.

If it's already in this thread, or somewhere else, you should have no problem providing it to me.

Dialogue in KotOR can vary, some minor word cqn be change but can have great meaning inpact if you consider the indept meaning of every sentence....

If you played the game 3/5 time some dialogs can change....

You choice being DS, LS, male or female, Revan Being Male or female, DS or LS...
Your stats. The way you act in a dialogue, your previous choices....


Good luck tpo find the sources....

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You went full AP with that master level bullshit, and you know it. I mean there's a giant ****ing holocron in the Jedi Temple, for god's sake. And of course them being there helps, when she siphers power from all of them.

Depending on the era, yeh, they've accomplished feats that Jedi masters haven't.

Visas was the most powerful Sith in Nihilus' employ, given her status as his Shadow Hand. The Handmaiden went toe-to-toe with Atris and beat down all of her sisters (incidentally restraining herself so as not to kill them.) Atton was taking down Jedi before he'd even realised his own force sensitivity, and after that has got some decent melee feats (like taking on two of the most infamous bounty hunters of his time). He also beat Sion....

So no, I don't know it.

Her trying to free her friends is literally stated to weaken her in her trials against Traya, Traya explains to Sion that leaving them to die would leave her with more strength in the final showdown. This the only logical explanation is that (since the bond works both ways) they were drawing off her, if anyone was drawing from anyone.

Nice try though

Originally posted by Zenwolf
The Kotor Campaign Guide, under the planets section.

....Ok so if they can fight through it, then why can't others? It doesn't seem as soul shattering as it's being made out to be.

So you're suggesting your opinion is greater than two seperate canon sources? mmm

We have fortified canonical information as to exactly what it does to people. To suggest it doesn't do what two sources suggest it does, simply because the Exile's party survived, is farcical. It simply makes their feat better.

Oh, and the remote was designed specifically for its job on Malachor, hence it working.

Originally posted by Selenial
So you're suggesting your opinion is greater than two seperate canon sources? mmm

We have fortified canonical information as to exactly what it does to people. To suggest it doesn't do what two sources suggest it does, simply because the Exile's party survived, is farcical. It simply makes their feat better.

Oh, and the remote was designed specifically for its job on Malachor, hence it working.

It's not my opinion? The Guide says right there, Standard Gravity.

So if the whole party can survive it's suppose crushing effects, along with whatever else it has, I'm not seeing why others can't.

Yet you guys seem to think it's something only Suirk can do.

Originally posted by Selenial
Depending on the era, yeh, they've accomplished feats that Jedi masters haven't.

Visas was the most powerful Sith in Nihilus' employ, given her status as his Shadow Hand. The Handmaiden went toe-to-toe with Atris and beat down all of her sisters (incidentally restraining herself so as not to kill them.)

Her Force deaf sisters. Also, I like how getting shit on in the Force is impressive and beyond Jedi Masters.

He was trained to covertly kill them, not face them in actual fights.

Damn, bounty hunters?!

Who Meetra shit on four times, while he was immortal, and after she went through the Academy and freed her friends. Yeah, that's more of a point against Sion than one in his favor.

Then you are blind.

Because Traya doesn't believe in self-sacrifice.

She has nothing for them to draw off of being a black hole of death and everything.

It was ceraintly better than your attempt.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
It's not my opinion? The Guide says right there, Standard Gravity.

So if the whole party can survive it's suppose crushing effects, along with whatever else it has, I'm not seeing why others can't.

Are you sure it's not talking about Malachor, pre-MSG? Since that's what caused the gravitational anomalies.

Where has anyone suggested others can't survive it? As far as I know, no ones said that. What we're discussing is her ability to fight a legion of Sith Assassins, Storm Beasts, Traya and Sion on said planet. They had the Dark Side Nexus to keep them going during her trials, she did not, ergo it was more difficult for her to fight on the planet than them.

It's likely why most Jedi who landed on the planet succumbed to the Dark Side, it was intensely difficult to survive without doing it.

Originally posted by Selenial
Are you sure it's not talking about Malachor, pre-MSG? Since that's what caused the gravitational anomalies.

Where has anyone suggested others can't survive it? As far as I know, no ones said that. What we're discussing is her ability to fight a legion of Sith Assassins, Storm Beasts, Traya and Sion on said planet. They had the Dark Side Nexus to keep them going during her trials, she did not, ergo it was more difficult for her to fight on the planet than them.

It's likely why most Jedi who landed on the planet succumbed to the Dark Side, it was intensely difficult to survive without doing it.

Well I'm sure the guide is speaking of Malachor as it is, as I think it'd be pointless to describe a world that is no longer even the same thing and it makes mention of how it's destroyed by the Mass Shadow Generator.


/Shrug

Well I just seem to take I guess, that Surik surviving it says that others can't. With how it's thrown out.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Her Force deaf sisters. Also, I like how getting shit on in the Force is impressive and beyond Jedi Masters.

He was trained to covertly kill them, not face them in actual fights.

Damn, bounty hunters?!

Who Meetra shit on four times, while he was immortal, and after she went through the Academy and freed her friends. Yeah, that's more of a point against Sion than one in his favor.

Then you are blind.

Because Traya doesn't believe in self-sacrifice.

She has nothing for them to draw off of being a black hole of death and everything.

It was ceraintly better than your attempt.

Can't be assed to quote breakdown on my phone, deal with it.

You're pretty ****ing retarded if you think the fact they're Force-Deaf makes the feat worthless. They're echani, some of the greatest Melee combatants in the galaxy, and were trained by a high level master of numerous forms of Lightsaber combat. The Handmaiden didn't use the force offensively, given that's not what she believed in and she had to restrain herself so as not to kill them.

And yes, Stalemating Atris in bladework only to get ruined by Force Lightning is a master level feat, considering Atris is far above master level herself. I don't know why you seem to believe Jedi Master's are some unstoppable force.

Your Sion shit is beyond circular logic. "Atton is shit, because Sion is shit, because Sion got beat by Meetra. Meetra's shit, beating Sion means nothing because Sion is shit." ****ing A+ debating today, Freshest.

Traya not believing in self sacrifice is irrelevant. She explicitly states it would weaken Surik and make her easier to kill, that's not disagreeing with her methods, it's stating a fact. You're actually summing this up right, by saying Self Sacrifice. If the exile was drawing from them as you say, then leaving them to die leaves her without a power source, and she should fall to Traya far easier. So you're quite literally defeating yourself. Again, some A+ tier logic from you.

I also love that you completely ignore the stuff about Visas, because you have no counter for it.

Totally better than my "attempt"

What are we even debating anymore, lol?

Ignoring KoTOR II related buffs and advantages, Meetra Surik should be on par with Obi-Wan Kenobi (Episode III) at minimum.

Maul level. ( Note: Heavy wankery required. Do not attempt to wank this hard if you have chronic back pain, fibromyalgia or are over 60. )

Lol at Meetra being Maul level

That's cancer, right there. Great way to mark your return, Syn.

Thanks NewGuy.