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Omar Saddiqui Mateen killed 50 people and 53 injured in a night club in Orlando last night.

http://www.cnn.com/

At an LGBT nightclub. So tragic what intolerance does.

It was a gay nightclub, I don't think lesbians or anything had anything to do with it.

Such a senseless act.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/orlando-nightclub-shooting-emergency-services-respond-reports-gunman-n590446

"Mir Seddique, Mateen's father told NBC News, "this has nothing to do with religion." Seddique said his son got angry when he saw two men kissing in Miami a couple of months ago and thinks that may be related to the shooting. "

Hmm.

Hopefully this will affirm and make it well known to ignorant people that Islam hates and kills gays and throws them off buildings kills, imprisions them in places like Iran, Pakistan, Jordan, Saudia Arabia, Syria, and Iraq.

Originally posted by Lestov16
At an LGBT nightclub. So tragic what intolerance does.

Yea it was a gay glub, but it seems also accepts all walks of life in lbtg

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/gay-south-florida/article83301677.html

Originally posted by Surtur
It was a gay nightclub, I don't think lesbians or anything had anything to do with it.

Such a senseless act.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/orlando-nightclub-shooting-emergency-services-respond-reports-gunman-n590446

"Mir Seddique, Mateen's father told NBC News, "this has nothing to do with religion." Seddique said his son got angry when he saw two men kissing in Miami a couple of months ago and thinks that may be related to the shooting. "

Hmm.

Oh coarse his father would say that. The family members of San Bernadino, said they knew nothing

Anyone who believed that is a fool and anyone who believes the father is a fool.

The guys father said it isn't religion, just that his son got angry over seeing some men kiss. But..then why did that make him angry? I'm guessing because he was told it was wrong? I dunno.

That is just a weird excuse "he saw two dudes kiss a few months ago and just snapped today".

I dont care what the fathers says, it means nothing. This is the largest shooting in american history, due to radical beliefs because of radical islamic beliefs and ideology. Radicals hate gays. This guy was a hater and a murderous biggot and a piece of shit.

Indeed. This is the largest religion-based hate crime in American history. Hopefully this will show the world that the homophobia of the Quran and the Bible only leads to hate, which leads to tragedies like this.

This is the largest mass shooting in america ever, The largest murder hate crime ever , the largest mass shooting based on radical islam since 1776.

Well do we know for 100% sure it was terrorism?

If so I wonder what they will label it as.

Originally posted by Surtur
Well do we know for 100% sure it was terrorism?

http://www.cnn.com/

Yeah. It was undoubtedly a terrorist attack. Even if the guy was just motivated by homophobia, he carried out a mass-casualty hate crime to instill fear in gays. So no matter if he was motivated by personal homophobia or religious homophobia, it was a homophobic terrorist attack.

Or are terrorist attacks exclusively Islamic?

Originally posted by Surtur
It was a gay nightclub, I don't think lesbians or anything had anything to do with it.

Such a senseless act.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/orlando-nightclub-shooting-emergency-services-respond-reports-gunman-n590446

"Mir Seddique, Mateen's father told NBC News, "this has nothing to do with religion." Seddique said his son got angry when he saw two men kissing in Miami a couple of months ago and thinks that may be related to the shooting. "

Hmm.

It was a lbtg club

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/gay-south-florida/article83301677.html

I always wonder why whenever something is done by Islamic terrorists, that there's always that one guy that would always try to wholesale lump them together with Catholics....

SMH.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Yeah. It was undoubtedly a terrorist attack. Even if the guy was just motivated by homophobia, he carried out a mass-casualty hate crime to instill fear in gays. So no matter if he was motivated by personal homophobia or religious homophobia, it was a homophobic terrorist attack.

Or are terrorist attacks exclusively Islamic?

The guy has weapons training, and was a armed security gaurd.

This was also pride weekend in Miami, Even though this was in Orlando, they were celebrating, now all is lost.

Jake Tapper on CNN right not with a correspondence on the ground is confirming that this is a tale sign of radical islamic terrorism.

I'm seeing the club being located in Orlando and not Miami, though.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I'm seeing the club being located in Orlando and not Miami, though.

I just said this.

"This was also pride weekend in Miami, Even though this was in Orlando, they were celebrating, now all is lost."

Its actually pride month in florida, so everyone was celebrating.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I always wonder why whenever something is done by Islamic terrorists, that there's always that one guy that would always try to wholesale lump them together with Catholics....

SMH.

Because this was a religious attack on gays. You know, like the Christians who don't want gays to get married and protest the national same sex marriage bill, the one Trump wants to get rid of.

Or is it okay to not give them the right to marry but not okay to kill them in a terrorist attack? Is that the difference between Christianity and Islam, that both dehumanize gays and deny giving them equal human rights, but Christians just do it on a lesser level?

Originally posted by Lestov16
Because this was a religious attack on gays. You know, like the Christians who don't want gays to get married and protest the national same sex marriage bill, the one Trump wants to get rid of.

Or is it okay to not give them the right to marry but not okay to kill them in a terrorist attack? Is that the difference between Christianity and Islam, that both dehumanize gays and deny giving them equal human rights, but Christians just do it on a lesser level?

If your going to turn this political and talk about trump and christians when there is no relevance, the thread is going to get very bad very quickly, how about we all stay on point this one time. Trump has never said he didn't want gays to be married, he actually said the exact opposite.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/04/politics/donald-trump-gay-marriage-kentucky-clerk-kim-davis/index.html

Originally posted by Lestov16
Because this was a religious attack on gays. You know, like the Christians who don't want gays to get married and protest the national same sex marriage bill, the one Trump wants to get rid of.

Or is it okay to not give them the right to marry but not okay to kill them in a terrorist attack? Is that the difference between Christianity and Islam, that both dehumanize gays and equal human rights, but Christians just do it on a lesser level?

Wow.

So, it's ok to condemn and blame a group of ppl for actions they had nothing to do with by simply summarily generalizing them for as long as they "fit" within a specific general terminology (in this case, religion)?

Condemning one type of prejudice whilst demonstrating another. Good job.

So just talk about the political Islamic aspect and ignore the political homophobic aspect. Just dehumanize Muslims to ignore the pervasive religious dehumanization of homosexuals. I see....

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
If your going to turn this political and talk about trump and christians when there is no relevance, the thread is going to get very bad very quickly, how about we all stay on point this one time. Trump has never said he didn't want gays to be married, he actually said the exact opposite.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/04/politics/donald-trump-gay-marriage-kentucky-clerk-kim-davis/index.html

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I just said this.

"This was also pride weekend in Miami, Even though this was in Orlando, they were celebrating, now all is lost."

Its actually pride month in florida, so everyone was celebrating.

Yeah, night club itself was in Orlando, though.

Lived in FL for 2 years, actually finished my bachelor's at a university there. Title got me really worried, got relatives in Miami.

It is yet another insane tragic disgusting act by a terrorist. Praying for the families of the victims, the lives lost and those still fighting for their lives.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Wow.

So, it's ok to condemn and blame a group of ppl for actions they had nothing to do with by simply summarily generalizing them for as long as they "fit" within a specific general terminology (in this case, religion)?

Condemning one type of prejudice whilst demonstrating another. Good job.

Lol. Accusing me of generalizing when you just want to act like this attack is simply "an Islamic attack against the West" when it's clearly a religious hate crime primarily against homosexuals.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Yeah, night club itself was in Orlando, though.

Lived in FL for 2 years, actually finished my bachelor's at a university there. Title got me really worried, got relatives in Miami.

It is yet another insane tragic disgusting act by a terrorist. Praying for the families of the victims, the lives lost and those still fighting for their lives.

I said it was in Orlando later , I could not correct the OP saying Miami. I thought it was Miami cause it was pride weekend there. Its not a big deal. Ill get a mod to fix it.

Originally posted by Lestov16
So just talk about the political Islamic aspect and ignore the political homophobic aspect. Just dehumanize Muslims to ignore the pervasive religious dehumanization of homosexuals. I see....

Wow. Seriously, do you read what you write?

No one here is dehumanizing Muslims. The only person blaming this stuff to an entire group of ppl here is you.

This was an act of terrorism, perhaps we should focus the blame on terrorists?

I mean, I thought that if some black gang bangers start shooting up a neighborhood, you should blame those kind of activities to gang bangers, and not attribute it to the culture of the black and latino population. But this is exactly what you did.

He does not want to blame the group, ideology and person that did it, he just wants to blame trump and christians now.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Lol. Accusing me of generalizing when you just want to act like this attack is simply "an Islamic attack against the West" when it's clearly a religious hate crime primarily against homosexuals.

No, it is a "terrorist attack against the west, (seemingly) specifically the LGBT community". If you can just get your politically-fixated head out of your ass for ten seconds, you'd actually come up with a more objective, less prejudiced definition of this tragedy.

But Nibedicus, that is exactly what he said here:

Originally posted by Lestov16
Yeah. It was undoubtedly a terrorist attack. Even if the guy was just motivated by homophobia, he carried out a mass-casualty hate crime to instill fear in gays. So no matter if he was motivated by personal homophobia or religious homophobia, it was a homophobic terrorist attack.

Or are terrorist attacks exclusively Islamic?

Originally posted by Bardock42
But Nibedicus, that is exactly what he said here:

And this is what I'm commenting on:

Originally posted by Lestov16
Indeed. This is the largest religion-based hate crime in American history. Hopefully this will show the world that the homophobia of the Quran and the Bible only leads to hate, which leads to tragedies like this.

Nice try, tho.

I did call it a terrorist attack. I said it was undoubtedly a terrorist attack. It's just that you only think he's a terrorist because he's a Muslim, and not because he's dogmatically homophobic.


Lol! What do you mean "seemingly"? So you think homophobia played no part in this, mainly because if it did, it brings the homophobic dogma of all religions, including Christianity into question and that makes you uncomfortable. So you'd rather take the easiest route of dehumanizing Muslims than examine the dehumanization of gays in all religions.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I did call it a terrorist attack. I said it was undoubtedly a terrorist attack. It's just that you only think he's a terrorist because he's a Muslim, and not because he's dogmatically homophobic.

Making stuff up now, aren't we?

Please indicate where I said that in this statement:

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I always wonder why whenever something is done by Islamic terrorists, that there's always that one guy that would always try to wholesale lump them together with Catholics....

SMH.

Hell, I'm not even sure what the shooter's religion is. He could well be Catholic.

But in almost every discussion where ppl are discussing an act as some form of Islamic terrorism, there's always that one guy that wants to lump Catholics in with the Islamic terrorists like everyone within any kind of Abrahamic religion is one and the same. All we need is some ppl implying that this has something to do with Islamic terrorism and we then get this one guy trying to combine Islam and Catholicism like they were one and the same.

And in this discussion, that "guy" happens to be you.

And it's usually from those who should know better about lumping entire ppls together just because they share some form of trait.

It stinks of hypocrisy.

Edit. And yes, I said "seemingly" because we don't have the exact information about his motivations as of yet, all we have is speculation. All things as of now are pointing to it, I agree, but I'd rather wait for all the information before stating it as a fact. I mean would it be an heterophobic act of terrorism if the club he attacked wasn't a LGBT nightclub? Until we have 100% of the facts before us, we cannot start stating things as facts.

The shooter was on a terrorist watch list.

This is assignee, so we watch these people and dont bring them in for questioning now???

I don't know who those other people are, but due to the specific circumstances of this terrorist attack, a comparison of Islamic to Christian homophobia is applicable. Islamic terrorist attacks against a marathon or skyscrapers is clearly meant to be against the West at large, but this one was specifically targeted at gays, which means the subject of religious based homophobia, including that of Christianity must be brought up.

Quite simply, you're lumping me into all the liberal extremists you've talked to beforehand rather than objectively looking at the circumstances of this instance. IOW, other liberals have cried wolf, but this time I'm telling the truth.

Religious based homophobia must be examined after this. The Kim Davises of the world should view this as a massive reality check of the dangers of dogmatic intolerance.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
The shooter was on a terrorist watch list.

This is assignee, so we watch these people and dont bring them in for questioning now???

Well the NRA doesn't mind giving them guns, so...

Originally posted by Lestov16
I don't know who those other people are, but due to the specific circumstances of this terrorist attack, a comparison of Islamic to Christian homophobia is applicable. Islamic terrorist attacks against a marathon or skyscrapers is clearly meant to be against the West at large, but this one was specifically targeted at gays, which means the subject of religious based homophobia, including that of Christianity must be brought up.

Quite simply, you're lumping me into all the liberal extremists you've talked to beforehand rather than objectively looking at the circumstances of this instance. IOW, other liberals have cried wolf, but this time I'm telling the truth.

Religious based homophobia must be examined after this. The Kim Davises of the world should view this as a massive reality check of the dangers of dogmatic intolerance.

This has nothing to do with liberalism, conservatism or christianity.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Well the NRA doesn't mind giving them guns, so...

Confirmed, you are a piece of shit. Say goodbye to me being cordial with you. You ready for war bucky?

Originally posted by Lestov16
I don't know who those other people are, but due to the specific circumstances of this terrorist attack, a comparison of Islamic to Christian homophobia is applicable. Islamic terrorist attacks against a marathon or skyscrapers is clearly meant to be against the West at large, but this one was specifically targeted at gays, which means the subject of religious based homophobia, including that of Christianity must be brought up.

Quite simply, you're lumping me into all the liberal extremists you've talked to beforehand rather than objectively looking at the circumstances of this instance. IOW, other liberals have cried wolf, but this time I'm telling the truth.

Religious based homophobia must be examined after this. The Kim Davises of the world should view this as a massive reality check of the dangers of dogmatic intolerance.

Clearly you are clueless, and a dumbass, you have no effing clue what you are talking about. This has nothing to do with christians, and for you to even bring this up shows your ignorance and stupidity.

This was a muslim extremist that targeted innocent people based on his religion and ideology. How dare you bring up christians and paint them in the same light cause they protested a ruling from the Supreme Court that should have been left up to the states

Who the **** do you think you are? Your a fcking nobody, a nobody, you live at home with you fcking mom living on handouts and you think you are going to lump christians holding signs in with this ****ing maniac.

Go **** yourself

Originally posted by Lestov16
I don't know who those other people are, but due to the specific circumstances of this terrorist attack, a comparison of Islamic to Christian homophobia is applicable. Islamic terrorist attacks against a marathon or skyscrapers is clearly meant to be against the West at large, but this one was specifically targeted at gays, which means the subject of religious based homophobia, including that of Christianity must be brought up.

Quite simply, you're lumping me into all the liberal extremists you've talked to beforehand rather than objectively looking at the circumstances of this instance. IOW, other liberals have cried wolf, but this time I'm telling the truth.

Religious based homophobia must be examined after this. The Kim Davises of the world should view this as a massive reality check of the dangers of dogmatic intolerance.

Then open a separate thread to discuss the issue. For f*ck's sake, this is a tragedy where ppl died and your first response was to try and lump Catholics and Muslims together as if somehow our religion was somehow to blame for all this wholesale. WTH is wrong with you?

And the saying: "there's always this one guy" doesn't "lump you in" with the other unrelated actions of other "liberal extremists" (and I don't even know where I stated that this behavior is distinctive of "liberal extremists". On the contrary, it "lumps in" your -actions- (and only your actions, not who you are as a person) together -specifically-. W/c is actually the opposite of what you did and what you are trying to imply as to what I'm doing.

And FYI, my country has one of the highest % of Catholics in the world (and so does Brazil and Mexico) but you should know that we have events here that actually celebrate the LGBT community and AFAIK there hasn't been any news of us having anti-LGBT killing sprees (I will agree that there are some crazies here and there, but that is true for every country) and we also don't have laws that would condemn or kill anyone for being gay. So maybe you should try and be more specific to geography/culture/politics so that the innocent don't get lumped in with the guilty party?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Then open a separate thread to discuss the issue. For f*ck's sake, this is a tragedy where ppl died and your first response was to try and lump Catholics and Muslims together as if somehow our religion was somehow to blame for all this. WTH is wrong with you?

Im glad someone else sees this bullshit, fck him. This is coming from the guy who has been defending Islam for years now. Since he can't do that here now, he attacks Christians and Catholics and blames them for this attack.

He should leave the forum forever, its disgraceful to the people who died, who were murdered by this terrorist. Its dishonorable to the families, its biggoted towards Catholics and Christians and placing false blame on non involved people.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Because this was a religious attack on gays. You know, like the Christians who don't want gays to get married and protest the national same sex marriage bill, the one Trump wants to get rid of.

Or is it okay to not give them the right to marry but not okay to kill them in a terrorist attack? Is that the difference between Christianity and Islam, that both dehumanize gays and deny giving them equal human rights, but Christians just do it on a lesser level?

Are those excuses am hearing?

Tell me, when was the last time in the late 20's, 21st century Christians preached killing of people because of there sex, race, the defacing of there God is the right thing to do?

Lest sided with BLM and justified in their violent protests were justified in Ferguson and Baltimore.

But Christians holding signs in peaceful assembly against a government over reach of power through the supreme court is worse then this attack and its their fault.

Shameful disgraceful lunacy.

Originally posted by Lestov16

Or is it okay to not give them the right to marry but not okay to kill them in a terrorist attack? Is that the difference between Christianity and Islam, that both dehumanize gays and deny giving them equal human rights, but Christians just do it on a lesser level?

You just bring up denying someone a piece of paper vs mass murder.

My entire family is at Disney World in Orlando right now.

Reading this kinda made my stomach turn, but then I realized that the shooting happened at a gay bar and not Disney.

Im glad they are ok. Now get over here!

Excuse me? I never sided with the violence of BLM. I sided with their ideological cause, not the violence done in their name. That's like saying all Christians are violent because extremists murders gays in Uganda, or all Muslims are violent because extremists commit terrorist attacks, or that all Trump supporters/protesters are violent because a few commit assault, or that the United States Military is evil just because of the My Lai Massacre. Or that all whites are bad because of slavery.....

The examples can go on and on. Main point is every ideology has extremists and opportunists. That should never be used to judge the intrinsic merit of the ideology itself. It is this generalizing that led us into our current political climate, people who fear extremists and opportunists will abuse the ideology of government vs people who fear extremists and opportunists will abuse the ideology of capitalism.

One of my best friends lives in Orlando, and my family resides in Miami. When i first heard it, i was scared until i read the whole thing.

Originally posted by Surtur
You just bring up denying someone a piece of paper vs mass murder.

So you think some forms of intolerance are more acceptable than others. It's that kind of dehumanizing that snowballs into terrorist hate crimes like this.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Excuse me? I never sided with the violence of BLM. I sided with their ideological cause, not the violence done in their name. That's like saying all Christians are violent because extremists murders gays in Uganda, or all Muslims are violent because extremists commit terrorist attacks, or that all Trump supporters/protesters are violent because a few commit assault, or that the United States Military is evil just because of the My Lai Massacre. Or that all whites are bad because of slavery.....

The examples can go on and on. Main point is every ideology has extremists and opportunists. That should never be used to judge the intrinsic merit of the ideology itself. It is this generalizing that led us into our current political climate, people who fear extremists and opportunists will abuse the ideology of government vs people who fear extremists and opportunists will abuse the ideology of capitalism.

So capitalism, conservatism, Catholics, trumpists and white males are responsible for this attack.

You are reported for trolling, you are a sad, pathetic human being. I hope you are the only person in the world that has these thoughts right now. I ashamed to even know you. You stopped posting for a while, and you should have left it at that. I hope you leave KMC and never come back, you are never living this down.

Originally posted by Lestov16
So you think some forms of intolerance are more acceptable than others. It's that kind of dehumanizing that snowballs into terrorist hate crimes like this.

I think some things are worse than others. Just like you think a person should get a longer prison sentence for murder as opposed to robbery, right?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Then open a separate thread to discuss the issue. For f*ck's sake, this is a tragedy where ppl died and your first response was to try and lump Catholics and Muslims together as if somehow our religion was somehow to blame for all this wholesale. WTH is wrong with you?

And the saying: "there's always this one guy" doesn't "lump you in" with the other unrelated actions of other "liberal extremists" (and I don't even know where I stated that this behavior is distinctive of "liberal extremists". On the contrary, it "lumps in" your -actions- (and only your actions, not who you are as a person) together -specifically-. W/c is actually the opposite of what you did and what you are trying to imply as to what I'm doing.

And FYI, my country has one of the highest % of Catholics in the world (and so does Brazil and Mexico) but you should know that we have events here that actually celebrate the LGBT community and AFAIK there hasn't been any news of us having anti-LGBT killing sprees (I will agree that there are some crazies here and there, but that is true for every country) and we also don't have laws that would condemn or kill anyone for being gay. So maybe you should try and be more specific to geography/culture/politics so that the innocent don't get lumped in with the guilty party?


People died because of religious homophobic intolerance! You say "LETZ JUSTZ MOURNZ DA PEEPLEZ" rather than discuss THE MOTIVATION OF THE ATTACK? Do you actually care? Because if you did you'd be discussing how prevent this from happening again, and considering the cause was religious homophobia, that would probably be a good starting place. For somebody who actually cared, at least.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
So capitalism, conservatism, Catholics, trumpists and white males are responsible for this attack.

You are reported for trolling, you are a sad, pathetic human being. I hope you are the only person in the world that has these thoughts right now. I ashamed to even know you. You stopped posting for a while, and you should have left it at that. I hope you leave KMC and never come back, you are never living this down.

What? Did you even understand my post? I was giving rhetorical examples as to why ideologies should never be associated with the extremists/opportunists who abuse them. If anything I was defending Trump supporters you illiterate dumbass.

Originally posted by Lestov16
What? Did you even understand my post? I was giving rhetorical examples as to why ideologies should never be associated with the extremists/opportunists who abuse them. If anything I was defending Trump supporters you illiterate dumbass.

No you were not, you lying idiot.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Because this was a religious attack on gays. You know, like the Christians who don't want gays to get married and protest the national same sex marriage bill, the one Trump wants to get rid of.

Or is it okay to not give them the right to marry but not okay to kill them in a terrorist attack? Is that the difference between Christianity and Islam, that both dehumanize gays and deny giving them equal human rights, but Christians just do it on a lesser level?


Now get lost, loser.

Originally posted by Lestov16
People died because of religious homophobic intolerance! You say "LETZ JUSTZ MOURNZ DA PEEPLEZ" rather than discuss THE MOTIVATION OF THE ATTACK? Do you actually care? Because if you did you'd be discussing how prevent this from happening again, and considering the cause was religious homophobia, that would probably be a good starting place. For somebody who actually cared, at least.

Who killed these people, dumbass??

Was it white christian anti gay conservative capitalists?

Or was it a racist biggot arab muslim terrorist?

Shameful, pathetic attempt and placing blame on people not responsible.

You will never live this down.

Originally posted by Surtur
I think some things are worse than others. Just like you think a person should get a longer prison sentence for murder as opposed to robbery, right?

That analogy makes no sense. It uses the analogy of homosexuality to violent crime when it should compared to an intrinsic trait like race or gender.

Again we are getting to the main point. Why is some intolerance more acceptable than others? Because the dehumanization of any unjust intolerance leads to massacres such as this.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
And this is what I'm commenting on:



Nice try, tho.

Nice try of what? Trying to get you both to agree on the part you actually agree on?

Originally posted by Lestov16
That analogy makes no sense. It uses the analogy of homosexuality to violent crime when it should compared to an intrinsic trait like race or gender.

Again we are getting to the main point. Why is some intolerance more acceptable than others? Because the dehumanization of any unjust intolerance leads to massacres such as this.

Large empty thesaurus words in sentences that mean nothing with no other attempt then to misplace blame.

You suck at being PC, much like everything else in life.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Who killed these people, dumbass??

Was it white christian anti gay conservative capitalists?

Or was it a racist biggot arab muslim terrorist?

Shameful, pathetic attempt and placing blame on people not responsible.

You will never live this down.

Again my point is proven! You want to focus purely on the Muslim aspect instead of the homophobic aspect!

Yes he was a Muslim! That means he hated gays. Why? Because all Abrahamic religions have homophobic dogma. That includes Christianity, seen today in homophobic sentiment toward the same sex marriage laws.

You're just trying to cherry pick the details, focus on the terrorist being Islamic but not WHY being Islamic made him a homophobic mass murderer.

Also, though, at no point have I blamed whites or conservatives or Trump supporters or anything like that for this attack. You're the one throwing this off topic and making this a matter of race and politics when it's a matter of religious homophobia.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Again my point is proven! You want to focus purely on the Muslim aspect instead of the homophobic aspect!


I am focusing on the homophobic part, your own words defeat you as you cannot read.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I dont care what the fathers says, it means nothing. This is the largest shooting in american history, due to radical beliefs because of radical islamic beliefs and ideology. Radicals hate gays. This guy was a hater and a murderous biggot and a piece of shit.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Hopefully this will affirm and make it well known to ignorant people that Islam hates and kills gays and throws them off buildings kills, imprisions them in places like Iran, Pakistan, Jordan, Saudia Arabia, Syria, and Iraq.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Nice try of what? Trying to get you both to agree on the part you actually agree on?

Playing ref? You are the wrong person to ever play ref.

I understand, but look at the two posts you quoted. In the first post you specifically refer to radical Islam, which is true, but in the second post you refer to Islam in general, as though it is only Islam and no other Abrahamic religions that are homophobic or have radicals.

Also Trump may not have been a good example of modern Christian homophobia. Ill admit that was a faulty example. A better example would be Kim Davis.

Originally posted by SquallX
Are those excuses am hearing?

Tell me, when was the last time in the late 20's, 21st century Christians preached killing of people because of there sex, race, the defacing of there God is the right thing to do?

Since you're asking. The Westboro Baptist Church routinely states gays should be killed as written in the Bible, then there's that pastor who Ted Cruz supported who said similar. Pretty sure there's more who believe homosexuls should be put to death as per Leviticus 20:13.

Must be mistaken, Rob. According to TI, only Islam has homophobic radicals.

So we are not going to talk about this specific attack, we are going to make it political and talk about everything else but this attack.

Clown

Originally posted by Lestov16
I understand, but look at the two posts you quoted. In the first post you specifically refer to radical Islam, which is true, but in the second post you refer to Islam in general, as though it is only Islam and no other Abrahamic religions that are homophobic or have radicals.

Also Trump may not have been a good example of modern Christian homophobia. Ill admit that was a faulty example. A better example would be Kim Davis.

The guy pledged alliegece to ISIS. THIS IS ABOUT RADICAL ISLAM YOU FOOL

TRUMP SUPPORTS GAY MARRAIGE

QUIT LYING YOU DISGRACE!

QUIT BLAMING CHRISTIANS YOU DISGRACE!

Its utterly shameful what you and Rob are doing. Pathetic, sick, childish and petty.

Originally posted by Lestov16
People died because of religious homophobic intolerance! You say "LETZ JUSTZ MOURNZ DA PEEPLEZ" rather than discuss THE MOTIVATION OF THE ATTACK? Do you actually care? Because if you did you'd be discussing how prevent this from happening again, and considering the cause was religious homophobia, that would probably be a good starting place. For somebody who actually cared, at least.

Yes, we should mourn the ppl first. As with everything, there is a time and a place to do things. Kinda like going to a guy who died from gang violence and then shouting "and you can blame this on his gangbanger lifestyle!" being the wrong time to discuss the implications of gang violence.

The fact that you do not know this is very indicative of your level of maturity.

Excuse me? You understand that the Catholic faith have made leaps and bounds in being inclusive of the LGBT community thru the decades right? You're not suddenly condemning us like we don't understand the importance of love, kindness and tolerance? I mean what's your point? You DO know that we KNOW prejudice = bad, right? And that we weren't raised in the 1700s and that the VAST majority of us are actually aware of the social changes happening around us? Because if you don't know this, you are then spewing drivel out of woefully ignorance.

And you also know that it is not simply one's religion but one's culture/the type parenting/political ideology/genetic inclinations/personality/psychology/etc that guides one's actions and that tragedies like this tend to be caused by a complex and volatile mix of those factors. Yes, religion is an "easy" justification. But maybe we should think about the possibility that ppl who do evil and violent things would look for any reason at all to justify the vile and evil things they do? Rather than just simply getting one thing we hate and putting all our blame on it?

You know, because that is what bigots do.

AKA we're not talking about Islam being the anti-American religion of evil but instead talk about the religious homophobia that resides in all Abrahamic religions? But..but...I wanted to be Islamophobic today!

Originally posted by Robtard
Since you're asking. The Westboro Baptist Church routinely states gays should be killed as written in the Bible, then there's that pastor who Ted Cruz supported who said similar. Pretty sure there's more who believe homosexuls should be put to death as per Leviticus 20:13.

What the **** does this have to do with that. All your trying to do is play cover up and blame something completely unrelated that never resulted in a mass murder based on hate crime radical terrorism.

Rob and Lest think: Picket signs and peaceful gatherings > Radical Islamic mass murdering Terrorism based on hate, biggotry and ideology.

Shame on you, shame on you forever.

Clown, go back to being a shadow, rtard.

Originally posted by Lestov16
AKA we're not talking about Islam being the anti-American religion of evil but instead talk about the religious homophobia that resides in all Abrahamic religions? But..but...I wanted to be Islamophobic today!

This has nothing to do with liberalism, conservatism or christianity you disgrace! You made this thread about politics when it could have brought everyone together,

SHAME ON YOU for what you have done. You have shamed yourself based on your spiteful unrelated beliefs to this mass murder terrorist attack.

Originally posted by Lestov16
So you think some forms of intolerance are more acceptable than others. It's that kind of dehumanizing that snowballs into terrorist hate crimes like this.

Yes, kinda like how your religious intolerance isn't as bad as another guy's religious intolerance so we take and discuss the worst ones and simply allow you to have your intolerant opinions for as long as you don't start shooting up bars.

I mean if we use the "all intolerance being equally unacceptable" logic, then you''re just as bad as the shooter.

Originally posted by Lestov16
The examples can go on and on. Main point is every ideology has extremists and opportunists. That should never be used to judge the intrinsic merit of the ideology itself. It is this generalizing that led us into our current political climate, people who fear extremists and opportunists will abuse the ideology of government vs people who fear extremists and opportunists will abuse the ideology of capitalism.

Kinda like how you opportunistically used this tragedy to spout your ideological intolerance? And how you used generalizations to judge the merits of different ideologies by simply lumping them all together, individual differences (on the beliefs themselves as we all as the differences on how the individual acts on their beliefs) notwithstanding?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Yes, we should mourn the ppl first. As with everything, there is a time and a place to do things. Kinda like going to a guy who died from gang violence and then shouting "and you can blame this on his gangbanger lifestyle!" being the wrong time to discuss the implications of gang violence.

The fact that you do not know this is very indicative of your level of maturity.

Excuse me? You understand that the Catholic faith have made leaps and bounds in being inclusive of the LGBT community thru the decades right? You're not suddenly condemning us like we don't understand the importance of love, kindness and tolerance? I mean what's your point? You DO know that we KNOW prejudice = bad, right? And that we weren't raised in the 1700s and that the VAST majority of us are actually aware of the social changes happening around us? Because if you don't know this, you are then spewing drivel out of woefully ignorance.

And you also know that it is not simply one's religion but one's culture/the type parenting/political ideology/genetic inclinations/personality/psychology/etc that guides one's actions and that tragedies like this tend to be caused by a complex and volatile mix of those factors. Yes, religion is an "easy" justification. But maybe we should think about the possibility that ppl who do evil and violent things would look for any reason at all to justify the vile and evil things they do? Rather than just simply getting one thing we hate and putting all our blame on it?

You know, because that is what bigots do.

Are you serious? That's the EXACT point that I'm trying to make. Thank you!

Many, but not all Christians (see:Kim Davis) have chosen to bypass the religious dogma to live better lives, but as shown by Davis, there are still those who choose to be intolerant because of dogma. These people are radicals, and they exist in every religion, including Islam. So when TI tries saying that the terrorism and homphobia of many Islamic countries and groups is representative of Islam, this is false. ISIS, Sharia law countries, terrorists, etc. are just dogmatic radicals, just like Davis or the WBC. Let's view them as such, and not generalise them with other benevolent Muslim sects, just as you would not want Kim Davis to be representative of all Christians.

You guys are trying to say "let's tackle the homophobia of ONLY Islam", instead of the homophobia of all religions. How are you going to tackle religious radicalism if you only focus on one religion?

Yeah, at this point we shouldn't be surprised another violent radicalized Muslim has killed again. Literally you should expect these sorts of attacks every few months and the death toll to be massive- only brain dead self-hating liberals tend to make the same excuses for these people "THEY'RE NOT ALL THE SAME" and "WE NEED TO INTEGRATE THEM". You may as well have those excuses on auto-type from the same people. What a terrible loss of life from a vile religion.

Originally posted by Lestov16
So when TI tries saying that the terrorism and homphobia of many Islamic countries and groups is representative of Islam, this is false. ISIS, Sharia law countries, terrorists, etc. are just dogmatic radicals, just like Davis or the WBC.

Comparing a mass murderous rampage based on religion to a piece of paper which should have been a state decision

It well known to non ignrotant people that Islam hates and kills gays and throws them off buildings kills, imprisions them in places like Iran, Pakistan, Jordan, Saudia Arabia, Syria, and Iraq.

Clown

Originally posted by Lestov16
Are you serious? That's the EXACT point that I'm trying to make. Thank you!

Many, but not all Christians (see:Kim Davis) have chosen to bypass the religious dogma to live better lives, but as shown by Davis, there are still those who choose to be intolerant because of dogma. These people are radicals, and they exist in every religion, including Islam. So when TI tries saying that the terrorism and homphobia of many Islamic countries and groups is representative of Islam, this is false. ISIS, Sharia law countries, terrorists, etc. are just dogmatic radicals, just like Davis or the WBC. Let's view them as such, and not generalise them with other benevolent Muslim sects, just as you would not want Kim Davis to be representative of all Christians.

You guys are trying to say "let's tackle the homophobia of ONLY Islam", instead of the homophobia of all religions. How are you going to tackle religious radicalism if you only focus on one religion?

The point that there is a time and place to discuss things like this and this is not it? That the exact point you're trying to make? Then why are you still here?

There are bad ppl in every race/culture/ideology. It's not just in religion Mr. religious bigot. It s EXACTLY bigotry when we attribute the bad actions of a vile few to an entirety of ppl (Kinda like saying: OJ Simpson kills wife = all black ppl are violent wife murderers). And that is what you are doing. How can you not see this?

When did we say "let's tackle the homophobia of ONLY Islam"? Pls quote, otherwise, you're just inventing arguments in your own head. And why not just tackle homophobia in general? Why bring religion into this? Are you saying that atheists and agnostics can't be homophobic? Because if you think that, I can introduce you to an athiest I know who is blatantly homophobic. Is your focus on religion because of the fact that you are a religious bigot?

LOL at all of you. Deriding an Islamic terrorist for his homophobic attack and ignoring the Christian homophobia that exists everyday. What's that the Bible said about looking at the speck in your neighbors eye? Terrorist attacks like this will always occur because people like you refuse to change yourselves but try to enforce change in others.Don't know what's sadder, the terrorist attack itself or the fact that nothing was learned from it.

I'll leave you guys in peace so you can discuss which missile you think Trump should launch at those dirty Muslims and their families. You accuse me of playing politics but clearly you see this as an excuse to engineer the Islamophobic hate train. As stated, you don't really care about the attack or it's causes, just about how much you can mold it to fit your Islamophobic narrative.

You are the only one who keeps talking about Trump, no one else is, clown.

You politicized this, you tried shifting blame, you are a disgrace.

You tried to engineer this as its anti gay white male christian conservative capitalists fault for this attack:

Originally posted by Lestov16
Because this was a religious attack on gays. You know, like the Christians who don't want gays to get married and protest the national same sex marriage bill, the one Trump wants to get rid of.

Or is it okay to not give them the right to marry but not okay to kill them in a terrorist attack? Is that the difference between Christianity and Islam, that both dehumanize gays and deny giving them equal human rights, but Christians just do it on a lesser level?

Please leave and never come back. CA, clown.

I'm sure he'll come up as you rant about how evil Muslims are.

And yeah as stated, I never made any such attack, unless you consider Kim Davis a white male capitalist. You're just illiterate and or insecure.

Man, you guys have to be the most self hating group of people I've ever seen.

How many more innocent people have to die before you realize that Islam teaches nothing but bigotry, intolerance and hate?

RIP the victims of this cowardly attack.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I'm sure he'll come up as you rant about how evil Muslims are.

And yeah as stated, I never made any such attack, unless you consider Kim Davis a white male capitalist. You're just illiterate and or insecure.

Shut up you idiot. Kim Davis analogy failed

Who did she kill you reject?

Originally posted by Lestov16
LOL at all of you. Deriding an Islamic terrorist for his homophobic attack and ignoring the Christian homophobia that exists everyday. What's that the Bible said about looking at the speck in your neighbors eye? Terrorist attacks like this will always occur because people like you refuse to change yourselves but try to enforce change in others.Don't know what's sadder, the terrorist attack itself or the fact that nothing was learned from it.

I'll leave you guys in peace so you can discuss which missile you think Trump should launch at those dirty Muslims and their families. You accuse me of playing politics but clearly you see this as an excuse to engineer the Islamophobic hate train. As stated, you don't really care about the attack or it's causes, just about how much you can mold it to fit your Islamophobic narrative.

And SMFH at you for politicizing this tragedy. That each religion is different as is the individual who practices each religion are different in how they express their beliefs. For not understanding that people are actually persons that can think for themselves and not religion-machines. That the vast majority of us can actually practice tolerance within ourselves and still practice our beliefs in good conscience. For not understanding that evil ppl use whatever means to justify evil and that only the extreme kind of ideologies and differences along with a complex mix of factors is what causes this hate and what causes these tragedies. That even then, it is our ideologies and differences and complexity is what actually makes us human in the first place and will be persistent til we can find a way to abandon our own humanity.

Don't know what's sadder, your bigotry itself or your hypocrisy that you are blind to.

Originally posted by Robtard
Since you're asking. The Westboro Baptist Church routinely states gays should be killed as written in the Bible, then there's that pastor who Ted Cruz supported who said similar. Pretty sure there's more who believe homosexuls should be put to death as per Leviticus 20:13.

That's true, now answer this. How many times have they come out and other Christians have crucified them for there bigotry and stupidity?

Where as a Muslims commit an act of terrorists, and when we talk about it, other Muslims finds way to turn it into us saying where being racist toward them.

How many Muslims came out spoke against Paris, against San Berdino. Better yet, how many Muslims that just now have come out and speak on this? The answer is ****ing ZERO!

How am I politicizing it when you're trying to make it about Islam? What hypocrisy.

It was Radical Islamic Terrorist you reject. You already conceded and said you were leaving thread thread, stick to what you say, or do you have a problem with that?

Originally posted by Lestov16
How am I politicizing it when you're trying to make it about Islam? What hypocrisy.

Pls quote where I said this was about Islam? Or are you meaning someone else (would help if you would QUOTE the ppl you are replying to)?

The only thing I remember is my "there's always that one guy" remark and you are woefully misinformed if you think that was me making this about Islam.

Here is the POS

http://s33.postimg.org/4qomzxjyj/shooter.jpg

http://kfor.com/2016/06/12/orlando-nightclub-shooter-called-911-pledged-allegiance-to-isis-and-mentioned-boston-bombers/

He called 911 and pledged allegiance to Al bagdadi and ISIS.

Ugh... Of course he did. The Religion of Peace strikes again.

Originally posted by Lestov16
How am I politicizing it when you're trying to make it about Islam? What hypocrisy.
Why wouldn't it be about Islam? Why are you apologizing on the behalf of these terrorists?

Have you ever seen Islamic terror acts with your own eyes? I have and let me tell you This is a trademark Islamic barbarism at work.

Islam is a barbaric religion at its core and they cause problems anywhere they are until it is according to their beliefs.

I can't ignore ignorance, sorry. Anyways, you want to politicize it as an Islamic attack but not as a homophobic one. Muslims should pay but homophobes...nah. Like I said, you just need it to fit into your political Islamophobic narrative, instead of dealing with the concept of religious homophobia as a whole. You just want to tackle one religion's radicals but leave radical homophobia of all other religions impune to scrutiny.

You're the ones politicizing this, and doing so just to justify your Islamophobia. You're ignoring the homophobic aspects of the attack and exploiting it to push your political Islamophobic narrative.

What a shameful disservice to the victims of the attack. They died because of homophobic resentment of their sexual orientation and you exploit their deaths to push a political Islamophobic agenda. How disgusting of you.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I can't ignore ignorance, sorry. Anyways, you want to politicize it as an Islamic attack but not as a homophobic one. Muslims should pay but homophobes...nah. Like I said, you just need it to fit into your political Islamophobic narrative, instead of dealing with the concept of religious homophobia as a whole. You just want to tackle one religion's radicals but leave radical homophobia of all other religions impune to scrutiny.

You're the ones politicizing this, and doing so just to justify your Islamophobia. You're ignoring the homophobic aspects of the attack and exploiting it to push your political Islamophobic narrative.

What a shameful disservice to the victims of the attack. They died because of homophobic resentment of their sexual orientation and you exploit their deaths to push a political Islamophobic agenda. How disgusting of you.

Are you ignorant or just delusional? All news outlets report this as most likely a terrorist attack. Why are you complaining about homophobia? Try not inserting your social beliefs into a discussion when facts don't support them. If you can point to a single instance of homophobia, you would be taken more seriously. The fact that it was a gay bar doesn't have anything to do with homophobia. This looks like a terrorist attack, plain and simple.


Pretty much this Lestov. Your views here are pretty well known. I think we can all agree whatever nonsense you learned at your liberal college, you're more comfortable regurgitating it on a public forum rather than stopping to think that you appear to be a hypocrite who often engages in double standards.

Both need to pay for their sins.

I don't see any Christian homophobe killing 50 innocent people on news, do you?

I'm neither Christian nor I am from USA.

But I've seen the lengths to these murdering scumbags can go. It's taught to them actually.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Pls quote where I said this was about Islam? Or are you meaning someone else (would help if you would QUOTE the ppl you are replying to)?

The only thing I remember is my "there's always that one guy" remark and you are woefully misinformed if you think that was me making this about Islam.

My apologies. My main point is that the lesson that should be learned here is that religious homophobia of any Abrahamic religion is wrong, and the lesson is not simply "MOREZ PROOF DATZ MUZLIMS IZ EVUL" that TI seems to believe, because all religions have homophobic scripture and dogma that leads to intolerance (such as Kim Davis) which eventually devolves into mass murder as it did here. TI just wants to attack the Islamic homophobia whereas all religious homophobia should be in question.

Why is it about homophobia when the attacker freely admitted that he was inspired by Islamic terrorist group ISIS?

Originally posted by Lestov16
My apologies. My main point is that the lesson that should be learned here is that religious homophobia of any Abrahamic religion is wrong, and the lesson is not simply "MOREZ PROOF DATZ MUZLIMS IZ EVUL" that TI seems to believe, because all religions have homophobic scripture and dogma that leads to intolerance (such as Kim Davis) which eventually devolves into mass murder as it did here. TI just wants to attack the Islamic homophobia whereas all religious homophobia should be in question. Yea except for oh I don't know, let's say 15 years or so, terror has come from one place only and that's Islam. Nobody is going to bat for TI here but the fact that you're ignoring Islamic terrorism and inserting something about homophobia is telling.

Originally posted by Lestov16
My apologies. My main point is that the lesson that should be learned here is that religious homophobia of any Abrahamic religion is wrong, and the lesson is not simply "MOREZ PROOF DATZ MUZLIMS IZ EVUL" that TI seems to believe, because all religions have homophobic scripture and dogma that leads to intolerance (such as Kim Davis) which eventually devolves into mass murder as it did here. TI just wants to attack the Islamic homophobia whereas all religious homophobia should be in question.

You are a fool, nice job making this about me and now and not about the actual perpetrator who killed 50 people in the name of lslam. Did I go and kill anyone in the name of Christianity?

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Are you ignorant or just delusional? All news outlets report this as most likely a terrorist attack. Why are you complaining about homophobia? Try not inserting your social beliefs into a discussion when facts don't support them. If you can point to a single instance of homophobia, you would be taken more seriously. The fact that it was a gay bar doesn't have anything to do with homophobia. This looks like a terrorist attack, plain and simple.


Pretty much this Lestov. Your views here are pretty well known. I think we can all agree whatever nonsense you learned at your liberal college, you're more comfortable regurgitating it on a public forum rather than stopping to think that you appear to be a hypocrite who often engages in double standards.

Again, I said this is UNDOUBTEDLY a terrorist attack. You just want to ignore that it was a homophobic terrorist attack against gays. Again, what a disservice to their death.


Also, are we seriously doing ad hominem attacks? Do I have have start reporting people for personal attacks again? Let's leave the personal attacks alone and stick with the topic at hand.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You are a fool, nice job making this about me and now and not about the actual perpetrator who killed 50 people in the name of lslam. Did I go and kill anyone in the name of Christianity?

There are people who have.

Look my question is simple. Do you think all of Islam's sects, including Sufis, is inherently radical, and do you think Islam is the only Abrahamic religion capable of having radical sects?

Who is attacking you personally except TI?

See there you go again. Inserting your idiotic beliefs in place of facts.


You're the one unable to stick with the topic at hand. You're trying to ignore facts and insert your personal beliefs where nobody wants them. Is it possible it was a homophobic attack? Sure, or maybe not. What's factual was that it was a terrorist attack. Claiming it was homophobic based on location begs proof.

Originally posted by Lestov16
There are people who have.

Look my question is simple. Do you think all of Islam's sects, including Sufis, is inherently radical, and do you think Islam is the only Abrahamic religion capable of having radical sects?

Are you insane? Like have you lost your mind?

Again it was a terrorist attack. A homophobic terrorist attack. Why are you ignoring the homophobic aspect?

Yea this is me ignoring it alright

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Hopefully this will affirm and make it well known to ignorant people that Islam hates and kills gays and throws them off buildings kills, imprisions them in places like Iran, Pakistan, Jordan, Saudia Arabia, Syria, and Iraq.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I just said this.

"This was also pride weekend in Miami, Even though this was in Orlando, they were celebrating, now all is lost."

Its actually pride month in florida, so everyone was celebrating.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Yea it was a gay glub, but it seems also accepts all walks of life in lbtg

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/gay-south-florida/article83301677.html

Clown

Originally posted by Lestov16
There are people who have.

Look my question is simple. Do you think all of Islam's sects, including Sufis, is inherently radical, and do you think Islam is the only Abrahamic religion capable of having radical sects?
Yes, Islam as a whole is radical. That isn't something you can ignore. I've learned it firsthand and by real life experiences. That doesn't means everyone in Islam is going to attack anyone else in sight but the chances of a Muslim being a terrorist is much higher than any other religion. That's pretty much a fact.

You can try to make excuses for them though. That always works.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Are you insane? Like have you lost your mind?

Are you incapable of answering a yes or no question? If not, please answer.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Again it was a terrorist attack. A homophobic terrorist attack. Why are you ignoring the homophobic aspect?

Why do you keep saying it was a homophobic attack because it was a gay bar? If it was in a black ghetto, would you be screaming about a racist terrorist attack? If it was at a straight bar, would you be screaming "heterophobic terrorist attack"? No, you wouldn't, you're just incredibly fixated on homophobia for some reason.

We know a terrorist attack is a terrorist attack. Everything else is mere speculation.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Are you incapable of answering a yes or no question? If not, please answer.

I did answer it.
How am ignoring it, clown?
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Yea it was a gay glub, but it seems also accepts all walks of life in lbtg

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/gay-south-florida/article83301677.html
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I just said this.

"This was also pride weekend in Miami, Even though this was in Orlando, they were celebrating, now all is lost."

Its actually pride month in florida, so everyone was celebrating.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Hopefully this will affirm and make it well known to ignorant people that Islam hates and kills gays and throws them off buildings kills, imprisions them in places like Iran, Pakistan, Jordan, Saudia Arabia, Syria, and Iraq.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, Islam as a whole is radical. That isn't something you can ignore. I've learned it firsthand and by real life experiences. That doesn't means everyone in Islam is going to attack anyone else in sight but the chances of a Muslim being a terrorist is much higher than any other religion. That's pretty much a fact.

You can try to make excuses for them though. That always works.

Maybe because of the barbaric conditions they live in? Haven't you ever seen the Book of Eli or the current season of GOT? How in 3rd world conditions extremists/opportunists can use ideologies to gain power and spread chaos? I don't understand how you can use extremist sects to disparage an entire religion as a whole.

Also, if it wasn't homophobic, why wasn't it at a straight bar? Stop making excuses and ignoring the homophobia. As stated, you disrespect the victims doing that.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I did answer it.
How am ignoring it, clown?

So you think Sufism is radical?

Because if it was at a straight bar, you would just say terrorism, if that. You don't know why it was at a gay bar, you just pray it was homophobia so you can keep pushing that agenda.

And while Islam is the most likely religion of terrorism, 99% of Muslims don't engage in any kind of radicalism. As much as I hate Hilary and Bernie, I feel Trump is going to push this agenda for the worse. Then again, "love and kindness" hasn't been working either so...

Originally posted by SquallX
That's true, now answer this. How many times have they come out and other Christians have crucified them for there bigotry and stupidity?

Where as a Muslims commit an act of terrorists, and when we talk about it, other Muslims finds way to turn it into us saying where being racist toward them.

How many Muslims came out spoke against Paris, against San Berdino. Better yet, how many Muslims that just now have come out and speak on this? The answer is ****ing ZERO!

This is incorrect, Muslims around the world routinely comdemn terror attacks done in the name of Islam, to separate themselves. I suspect this attack will be no different.

Edit: Simple google search - http://www.local10.com/news/muslim-community-condemns-orlando-attack-calls-for-blood-donations

Originally posted by Lestov16
So you think Sufism is radical?

The guy who calls 911 and pledged alliegence to ISIS and Al Bagdadi and kills 50 people is a Radical, jackass.

Originally posted by Robtard
This is incorrect, Muslims around the world routinely comdemn terror attacks done in the name of Islam, to separate themselves. I suspect this attack will be no different.

Clown

Lol. His father even stated he was homophobic. It was clearly a homophobic terrorist hate crime. Even TI stated this is a homophobic Islamic attack. Why do you choose to ignore the homophobic aspect?

Originally posted by Robtard
This is incorrect, Muslims around the world routinely comdemn terror attacks done in the name of Islam, to separate themselves. I suspect this attack will be no different.

Edir: Simple google search - http://www.local10.com/news/muslim-community-condemns-orlando-attack-calls-for-blood-donations

But you CAN agree that as far as the 20th century is concerned, religious terror predominantly comes from one group.


You have a problem. Most people are focused on the terrorism aspect first and possible homophobia second. You seem to be focused on the homophobia aspect first and terrorism second.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
The guy who calls 911 and pledged alliegence to ISIS and Al Bagdadi and kills 50 people is a Radical, jackass.

Again, you are misunderstanding me. Obviously this guy is a radical, but your generalization of Islam makes all Muslims sound like radicals.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Maybe because of the barbaric conditions they live in? Haven't you ever seen the Book of Eli or the current season of GOT?

None of those radicals I've seen were living in barbaric conditions. I don't need to read a book or watch a TV show to understand Islamic fundamentalism. I've seen it with my own eyes.

So why is it that only Muslims become terrorist on such a large scale?

I'm not saying entire Islam is Extremist. Radical, yes.

There is a difference between those two. If you don't like your questions being answered in a way that you don't like, don't ask questions in the first place.

You are asking us to prove a negative? Yes, it was homophobia AND Islamic terrorism. Both aren't exclusive in this case.

When you see a Christian homophobe killing 50 people, let us know. Until that, you're just making excuses.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
But you CAN agree that as far as the 20th century is concerned, religious terror predominantly comes from one group.

Sure.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Again, you are misunderstanding me. Obviously this guy is a radical, but your generalization of Islam makes all Muslims sound like radicals.

Concession accepted on your backtracking pedaling, goal post moving.

Be ashamed for making this political as you were the one to do it and continue to do it.

You never have left your house, I was in Paris the night of the attacks.

You are a shameful clueless man child.

Originally posted by Robtard
Sure.

So then there's no need to address TI's "every muslim is a radical" nonsense, is there?

Originally posted by MS Warehouse

You have a problem. Most people are focused on the terrorism aspect first and possible homophobia second. You seem to be focused on the homophobia aspect first and terrorism second.

Because the homophobia aspect is more important. Funny any other time, following the crowd is being a sheep, but I guess herd mentality is in now.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Because the homophobia aspect is more important. Funny any other time, following the crowd is being a sheep, but I guess herd mentality is in now.

No, the homophobia aspect is never more important than the terrorism aspect. If that were the case, you'd need to treat each case of terrorism within a bubble of who the victims were, and that's idiotic. It was an act of terrorism first and possible homophobia second. The second part of your post is so dumb, it needs no addressing.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Excuse me? I never sided with the violence of BLM. I sided with their ideological cause, not the violence done in their name. That's like saying all Christians are violent because extremists murders gays in Uganda, or all Muslims are violent because extremists commit terrorist attacks, or that all Trump supporters/protesters are violent because a few commit assault, or that the United States Military is evil just because of the My Lai Massacre. Or that all whites are bad because of slavery.....

The examples can go on and on. Main point is every ideology has extremists and opportunists. That should never be used to judge the intrinsic merit of the ideology itself. It is this generalizing that led us into our current political climate, people who fear extremists and opportunists will abuse the ideology of government vs people who fear extremists and opportunists will abuse the ideology of capitalism.

So capitalism, conservatism, Catholics, trumpists and white males are responsible for this attack.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So why is it that only Muslims become terrorist on such a large scale?
You sure about that?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/omar-alnatour/muslims-are-not-terrorist_b_8718000.html

http://metro.co.uk/2015/01/15/the-number-of-terrorists-who-are-actually-religiously-motivated-will-surprise-you-5023616/

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/tally-of-attacks-in-us-challenges-perceptions-of-top-terror-threat.html?_r=0

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
So then there's no need to address TI's "every muslim is a radical" nonsense, is there?

I never said that, clownshoes, and Rob was not addressing me, crafty way to name drop into a flame war that you want.

Shoes

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
So then there's no need to address TI's "every muslim is a radical" nonsense, is there?

I haven't replied to TI's post. So?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
So capitalism, conservatism, Catholics, trumpists and white males are responsible for this attack.

I want you to re-read this 10 times over so that you can actually get the point I'm trying to make rather than your delusional nonsense.

you said it, not me and you said it a few times. Should I quote you?

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
No, the homophobia aspect is never more important than the terrorism aspect. If that were the case, you'd need to treat each case of terrorism within a bubble of who the victims were, and that's idiotic. It was an act of terrorism first and possible homophobia second. The second part of your post is so dumb, it needs no addressing.

I dont get your point. You say it's an act of terrorism, but against WHO? Do you care about the victims or why they were targeted?

Originally posted by Lestov16
My apologies. My main point is that the lesson that should be learned here is that religious homophobia of any Abrahamic religion is wrong, and the lesson is not simply "MOREZ PROOF DATZ MUZLIMS IZ EVUL" that TI seems to believe, because all religions have homophobic scripture and dogma that leads to intolerance (such as Kim Davis) which eventually devolves into mass murder as it did here. TI just wants to attack the Islamic homophobia whereas all religious homophobia should be in question.

No, the lesson here is that terrorism is wrong and that prejudice of all kinds (not just homophobia, but all prejudice) is wrong. That includes prejudice against a religion you don't like just because you don't like it. Do not lump in an entire religion that is NOT even involved in this vile act and use generalizations due to certain scriptural similarities (that are interpreted, accepted and practiced VERY differently between the religions and the different individuals that practice them).

What you did was prejudiced and hypocritical and insulting.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I dont get your point. You say it's an act of terrorism, but against WHO? Do you care about the victims or why they were targeted?

You don't get my point? Take any terror act the past 12 months. Using your logic, we have to say one was homophobic, one was revenge against office workers, etc. But in reality, terrorism is all encompassing. Islamic terrorism is geared towards the west, towards the "enemies of Islam". That's the main priority. The fact that this happened at a gay bar, the other one happened at an office, is secondary to the terrorism designed to garner attention. I care about the victims here like I did about the office victims in California, 9/11 etc.. I don't start screaming "homophobia!" the fact that this particular act of terror happened in a gay bar. It could happen in a black/mexican/jewish ghetto and it would still be an act of terrorism. Whoever they decided to target this time around is secondary to it being an act of terrorism.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
No, the lesson here is that terrorism is wrong and that prejudice of all kinds (not just homophobia, but all prejudice) is wrong. That includes prejudice against a religion you don't like just because you don't like it. Do not lump in an entire religion that is NOT even involved in this vile act and use generalizations due to certain scriptural similarities (that are interpreted, accepted and practiced VERY differently between the religions and the different individuals that practice them).

What you did was prejudiced and hypocritical and insulting.

You say all prejudice is wrong but don't tackle the intolerance of other religions besides Islam. You act like I said all Christians are bad, which is as ridiculous as TI saying all Muslims are bad.

Originally posted by Lestov16
You say all prejudice is wrong but don't tackle the intolerance of other religions besides Islam. You act like I said all Christians are bad, which is as ridiculous as TI saying all Muslims are bad.

Because we're talking about Islam, and you start throwing around other religions. When Christians decide to bring the Crusades back to the 21st century, we can begin to criticize them just as much.

Originally posted by Lestov16
You say all prejudice is wrong but don't tackle the intolerance of other religions besides Islam. You act like I said all Christians are bad, which is as ridiculous as TI saying all Muslims are bad.

Quote me saying all Muslims are bad, shameful liar.

You tired to compare this attack to Kim Davis you sniveling coward.

Originally posted by Lestov16
You say all prejudice is wrong but don't tackle the intolerance of other religions besides Islam. You act like I said all Christians are bad, which is as ridiculous as TI saying all Muslims are bad.

I'm not tackling any intolerance of any religion. If I did, pls quote where I did as I don't recall posting anything about intolerance of Islam in this thread.

I'm just specifically tackling YOUR intolerance towards MY religion, however.

And yes, you basically implying that there is a causality between terrorism and the religious scriptures that we believe in (w/c is, btw, essentially the core of our beliefs) is you basically saying Catholicism is "bad" (if not evil). It's funny that you would try to deny it now.

As if saying "you believe in a book that has a direct causality to hate and that same hate leads to tragedies like this" doesn't strongly imply that. SMFH.

"you believe in a book that has a direct causality to hate and that same hate leads to tragedies like this"

No, more like you believe in a book that can bring happiness or adversity based on how it's interpreted, and unfortunately there's a lot of people who interpret it to bring adversity. This can be said of any religion.


Put it like this. I'm not saying it's not okay to believe in God, just not a homophobic God. And if scripture says God is homophobic, it's clearly not God's scripture. All religions have the perfect message of God buried beneath the flawed messages of man. This is what we must overcome.

Originally posted by Lestov16
"you believe in a book that has a direct causality to hate and that same hate leads to tragedies like this"

No, more like you believe in a book that can bring happiness or adversity based on how it's interpreted, and unfortunately there's a lot of people who interpret it to bring adversity. This can be said of any religion.

Uhhh, yeah. At NO POINT during your primary post (w/c is the point of contention) nor in the replies that followed was the concept of unique individual interpretation ever been brought up. Had it been, we wouldn't be having this debate.

This is your exact post:

Originally posted by Lestov16
this will show the world that the homophobia of the Quran and the Bible only leads to hate, which leads to tragedies like this.

That is direct causality, not "individual interpretation". Maybe you don't know how to communicate your point properly or maybe you're just backpedalling. /shrug

Regardless, I (and every Catholic/Christian here) would like an apology either way.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Put it like this. I'm not saying it's not okay to believe in God, just not a homophobic God. And if scripture says God is homophobic, it's clearly not God's scripture. All religions have the perfect message of God buried beneath the flawed messages of man. This is what we must overcome.

Excuse me? Ppl are allowed to believe what they want. Just not act upon it that would deny others their rights or cause harm to others. And God isn't "homophobic", that implies a fear or hatred of homosexuals. Homosexuality isn't condemned. Homosexuals are welcomed in the Church. It's just the act of homosexual sex and marriage isn't allowed in the religion (but neither is masturbation and premarital sex). But guess what? One can always LEAVE the religion to practice one's beliefs/lifestyle (OMG, what a novel concept!). Or stay and feel guilty and do penance, but that's how it is and we've accepted that as Catholics.

Religion is not compulsory, after all, unless you live in certain countries (and that is actually something we can criticize about the COUNTRY not the religion).

Originally posted by Lestov16
You say all prejudice is wrong but don't tackle the intolerance of other religions besides Islam. You act like I said all Christians are bad, which is as ridiculous as TI saying all Muslims are bad.

Quote me saying all Muslims are bad, shameful liar.

You tired to compare this attack to Kim Davis you sniveling coward.

So the Bible and the Quran do not have homophobic passages?

finally he went away.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
finally he went away.

Nah, I think he's here to stay.

After all, him not being able to practice what he preaches is part of who he is.

http://time.com/4365507/orlando-shooting-isis-claims-responsibility-terror/

So this is officially an ISIS Attack. Political backlash is going to be immense. Bernie is done. His one weakness is foreign policy and national security, and in the wake of this, that weakness will be exposed big time. I see Trump and Hillary advocating war. Of course they have weak spots there too as Hillary supported Iraq and Libya, which led to ISIS's rise in the first plsce, and Trump has no foreign policy experience, and his business dealings have never prepared him for such a dangerous, volatile, and geopolitically sensitive threat. Things are going to be very interesting...

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Nah, I think he's here to stay.

After all, him not being able to practice what he preaches is part of who he is.

Originally posted by Lestov16

I'll leave you guys in peace so you can discuss which missile you think Trump should launch at those dirty Muslims and their families. You accuse me of playing politics but clearly you see this as an excuse to engineer the Islamophobic hate train. As stated, you don't really care about the attack or it's causes, just about how much you can mold it to fit your Islamophobic narrative.

I thought he was leaving.

Originally posted by Lestov16
http://time.com/4365507/orlando-shooting-isis-claims-responsibility-terror/

So this is officially an ISIS Attack. Political backlash is going to be immense. Bernie is done. His one weakness is foreign policy and national security, and in the wake of this, that weakness will be exposed big time. I see Trump and Hillary advocating war. Of course they have weak spots there too as Hillary supported Iraq and Libya, which led to ISIS's rise in the first plsce, and Trump has no foreign policy experience, and his business dealings have never prepared him for such a dangerous, volatile, and geopolitically sensitive threat. Things are going to be very interesting...

Look at you trying to dig your way out of this past 5 pages and make it more political then you already did before.

Obama: This was an act of Terror.

My stance has not changed. Religious homophobia caused this, not all religions are entirely peaceful, and not all Muslims are evil. You act as though I stated Islam had nothing to do with this when I've repeatedly stated that Islam religious dogma was the main cause. Don't try to ignore that you are being Islamophobic towards all Islamic sects or that homophobia is considered acceptable by many around the world of many different religions. You are being bigoted, myopic, and hypocritical.


And LOL. It was only the fact that he was islamic, rather than homophobic, that makes you call him terrorist. I bet if he was a homophobic white guy shooting up a gay nightclub you would just call him a mass shooter

Originally posted by Lestov16
My stance has not changed. Religious homophobia caused this, not all religions are entirely peaceful, and not all Muslims are evil. You act as though I stated Islam had nothing to do with this when I've repeatedly stated that Islam religious dogma was the main cause. Don't try to ignore that you are being Islamophobic towards all Islamic sects or that homophobia is considered acceptable by many around the world of many different religions. You are being bigoted, myopic, and hypocritical.



Clown

Prove I said all Muslims are terrorists. Not all muslims are terrorist, but all radical muslims are jihadis.

Islam has never accepted Homosexuality.

Other people here have said you are being bigoted, prejudicial, hypocritical and ignorant.

Nice try in re direct but you failed again.

You said all Muslims are radicals.

And what do you mean Islam never accepted homosexuality? If you mean scripture wise then no, the scripture was never rewritten to accept homosexuality, but neither was Christianity's scripture. If you mean accepted by the people who practice the ideology, then no, that's not true. There are some gay Muslims. The majority are homophobic though, but that's due to subjective interpretation. Just as the majority of Christians accept gays, due to subjective interpretation. That's all any religion is. The interpretation of the person who follows it.

If your argument is that it is easier to get one to commit evil using Islam than any other religion, that's not true, as all Abrahamic religions support barbaric practices in their scriptures. It's just that Christians, due to being an older religion, outgrew their barbarism before Islam did.

Originally posted by Lestov16
You said all Muslims are radicals

Proof?