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Thanos with the Classic IG. Fight takes place in a random pocket dimension.

Is there any reason why Thanos just wouldn't backhand the midget across the room? Because I'm pretty sure Thanos would backhand the midget across the room.

Thanos kills this featless wonder without the IG.

I was about to ask if this guy had done something spectacular, because...well...he's fighting THANOS WITH THE INFINITY GAUNTLET... But apparently he hasn't done much at all, lol. srsly

That said, Thanos wins with the merest pucker of his *******.

He destroyed 6 Universes instantly but it was done off panel. With that said, Thanos wins until we see more from this character.

Originally posted by carver9
He destroyed 6 Universes instantly but it was done off panel. With that said, Thanos wins until we see more from this character.

Really Carver, really!

It is true tho as it was told from whis.
There used to be 18 universes from DB till Zeno got mad and blow up 6 of them in a wink of a eye.

Too bad he's still nowhere even near Thanos with IG. So yeah this is a stomp.

Thanos stomps

Bump.

Zeno stomps.

IG Thanos for the win.

Raisining?

The Classic IG was a very different animal then the current IG. The Classic IG made the user in effect God, at a time where the Celestials was portrayed as being above the likes of Kubik who in turn effortlessly warped a universe into a sphere. The same Celestials that Thanos stomped into Oblivion with little effort. The same IG in a incomplete state, managed to manipulate the energies of the UN with a thought. The UN wields energies that has the scope to wipe out a infinite Multiverse in the blink, and then recreate it. With that reasoning, which people are welcome to disagree with, Thanos from my perspective wins.

Originally posted by Utrigita
The Classic IG was a very different animal then the current IG. The Classic IG made the user in effect God, at a time where the Celestials was portrayed as being above the likes of Kubik who in turn effortlessly warped a universe into a sphere. The same Celestials that Thanos stomped into Oblivion with little effort. The same IG in a incomplete state, managed to manipulate the energies of the UN with a thought. The UN wields energies that has the scope to wipe out a infinite Multiverse in the blink, and then recreate it. With that reasoning, which people are welcome to disagree with, Thanos from my perspective wins.

That's so rational and logical, it must be wrong.

Originally posted by Utrigita
The Classic IG was a very different animal then the current IG. The Classic IG made the user in effect God, at a time where the Celestials was portrayed as being above the likes of Kubik who in turn effortlessly warped a universe into a sphere. The same Celestials that Thanos stomped into Oblivion with little effort.

This is, frankly, nothing compared to what Zeno has done with zero effort. He instantly destroyed the Future Trunks timeline, which contains:

-13 universes, including the 12 mainstream ones and the 13th universe that is infinitely more vast and houses the other 12
-a Cosmic Zamasu who had literally become one with the universe, and was warping time/space to the extent that the entirely alternate present timeline was even being affected/warped
-all of the angels such as Whis/Vados, who can defeat Beerus in a single blow, who in turn is casually universal.

Mind you, this is with literally no effort on Zeno's part. There may not even be an actual limit on Zeno's power, or at least ability to destroy.

Originally posted by Utrigita
The same IG in a incomplete state, managed to manipulate the energies of the UN with a thought. The UN wields energies that has the scope to wipe out a infinite Multiverse in the blink, and then recreate it. With that reasoning, which people are welcome to disagree with, Thanos from my perspective wins.

Actually, I don't recall that being the "same" IG at all, nor the same nullifier that was portrayed as Multiversal, (which, as I'm sure you know, is incredibly inconsistent with the standard portrayal of the nullifier anyways, and shouldn't be used as a set standard to measure IG Thanos).

Originally posted by cdtm
That's so rational and logical, it must be wrong.

Contrary to your beliefs, a DB fan can have a rational discussion with a comic fan.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
This is, frankly, nothing compared to what Zeno has done with zero effort. He instantly destroyed the Future Trunks timeline, which contains:

-13 universes, including the 12 mainstream ones and the 13th universe that is infinitely more vast and houses the other 12
-a Cosmic Zamasu who had literally become one with the universe, and was warping time/space to the extent that the entirely alternate present timeline was even being affected/warped
-all of the angels such as Whis/Vados, who can defeat Beerus in a single blow, who in turn is casually universal.

Mind you, this is with literally no effort on Zeno's part. There may not even be an actual limit on Zeno's power, or at least ability to destroy.

Really? That is far from the impression I'm given in the anime. Where is it stated that the entire future multiverse is destroyed?


Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Actually, I don't recall that being the "same" IG at all, nor the same nullifier that was portrayed as Multiversal, (which, as I'm sure you know, is incredibly inconsistent with the standard portrayal of the nullifier anyways, and shouldn't be used as a set standard to measure IG Thanos).

That is the same IG, given that the infinity gems it contained was the very same gems the LT had decreed not able to work in unison, after the LT confrontation with Adam Warlock, which lead to the creation of the Infinity Watch.

There also is no difference between the UN Quasar used against Magus, to the UN Reed used to reset the multiverse. I'm not using it as a standard meassure for Thanos, I'm merely stating the fact that the IG in a incomplete stated was able to control the nullification energy of a potential multiverse destroying weapon. I, with that in mind, find it very possible that Thanos with the IG will be able to control the energies of Zeno, given that the way those energies is described in the translated anime I've seen, is that Zeno erases. Hence I give Thanos the win.

Edit: Though it looks nothing like nullification having rewatched the anime.

The King *might*(key word) have a greater overall scope of power, but I still believe Thanos has a much greater depth of power within any given reality.

So in a neutral setting/universe, Thanos should win.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Really? That is far from the impression I'm given in the anime. Where is it stated that the entire future multiverse is destroyed?

Pretty sure Trunks and Whis both mention the former's, "world" being erased, which most likely refers to the Future timeline. After all, when Whis talked about how Zeno can erase the entire "world" instantly, he was referring to the entire multiverse.

It was also confirmed by herms98 on twitter that Trunks' whole timeline was deleted.

Originally posted by Utrigita
That is the same IG, given that the infinity gems it contained was the very same gems the LT had decreed not able to work in unison, after the LT confrontation with Adam Warlock, which lead to the creation of the Infinity Watch.

There also is no difference between the UN Quasar used against Magus, to the UN Reed used to reset the multiverse. I'm not using it as a standard meassure for Thanos, I'm merely stating the fact that the IG in a incomplete stated was able to control the nullification energy of a potential multiverse destroying weapon. I, with that in mind, find it very possible that Thanos with the IG will be able to control the energies of Zeno, given that the way those energies is described in the translated anime I've seen, is that Zeno erases. Hence I give Thanos the win.

Edit: Though it looks nothing like nullification having rewatched the anime.

Fair enough, though I was more referring to portrayal than literally being the same. For example: in one source, Galactus' fight with Scrier/Other was threatening the stability of the multiverse, in another, he's getting oneshotted by the merged celestial, slugging it out with Odin, doing battle with Mephisto in his realm, etc. The same Galactus, literally speaking, but inconsistent portrayals relative to the former. Same goes for the UN.

Zeno's energies are nothing like the UN, yeah. Not even sure if it was ki either. I tend to just refer to it as Zeno's divine light wiping clean the canvas of existence.

I find it important to note that Beerus, who's less than an atom compared to Zeno, can casually nullify universe-busting energy.

Originally posted by Galan007
The King *might*(key word) have a greater overall scope of power, but I still believe Thanos has a much greater depth of power within any given reality.

So in a neutral setting/universe, Thanos should win.

If you're referring to Thanos' "oneness" with the universe that the gems provide, (essential omnipresence, omniscience, etc,) I think it's important to note that Zamasu in Super literally became one with the entire universe and was apparently warping time and space to the extent that the alternate present timeline was being affected/warped as well. Zeno casually annihilated him with zero effort.

/shrug

The only being in creation who was > Thanos /w/ IG, was LT... Who, even now, is a fully multiversal(or omniversal, depending which comic's verbiage you opt to use) power. That said, it was still implied that LT would have been hard-pressed to defeat the IG outright -- their battle would have laid waste to creation, at the very least. Hell, they almost came off as peers. /shrug

We also saw an incomplete IG(it didn't even have the reality gem, ffs) casually manipulate the energies of the UN to its whim -- and those energies have been used on a multiversal scale. Same incomplete IG was >> 5 CCUs, and capable of merging/amalgamating entire universes. Etc.


Again, I simply believe the IG has a greater overall depth of power.

Yep. At best, Zeno is Franklin Richards level, who is as far beneath the IG as we are above an ameoba.

In other words, Superman wins!

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Pretty sure Trunks and Whis both mention the former's, "world" being erased, which most likely refers to the Future timeline. After all, when Whis talked about how Zeno can erase the entire "world" instantly, he was referring to the entire multiverse.

It was also confirmed by herms98 on twitter that Trunks' whole timeline was deleted.

I personally find that to be one hell of a stretch. That whenever world is mentioned in regards to Zeno it means the entire Dragonball Multiverse. I could accept it being related to maybe the universe, still stretchy when we actually see there is something remaining after Zeno decide to use his powers.

Who is this Herms98?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Fair enough, though I was more referring to portrayal than literally being the same. For example: in one source, Galactus' fight with Scrier/Other was threatening the stability of the multiverse, in another, he's getting oneshotted by the merged celestial, slugging it out with Odin, doing battle with Mephisto in his realm, etc. The same Galactus, literally speaking, but inconsistent portrayals relative to the former. Same goes for the UN.

Zeno's energies are nothing like the UN, yeah. Not even sure if it was ki either. I tend to just refer to it as Zeno's divine light wiping clean the canvas of existence.

I find it important to note that Beerus, who's less than an atom compared to Zeno, can casually nullify universe-busting energy.

I'll just like to point out the the Mad Celestials have been confirmed as being equal in powerlevel to the 616 Celestials, so them merging and oneshotting Galactus I don't find farfetched, as for the scope. That varies on writer and what he wants to portray. But while Galactus might be portrayed in various situations, high and low, the Classic IG and the UN doesn't have, as far as I recall a single instance of a low showing. The UN isn't shown as being inconsistent though, the object, characters or whatever it targets gets nullified, erased from existance. All that seems to matter to the UN is the scope. Nullify a planet doesn't seem different then wiping out a universe where the UN is concerned.

I just called it as in the anime, some sort of erasing effect.

I'll respond when I can get on my chrome book. Glad you're here to spark some legitimate discussion.

Originally posted by Galan007
The only being in creation who was > Thanos /w/ IG, was LT... Who, even now, is a fully multiversal(or omniversal, depending which comic's verbiage you opt to use) power. That said, it was still implied that LT would have been hard-pressed to defeat the IG outright -- their battle would have laid waste to creation, at the very least. Hell, they almost came off as peers. /shrug

We also saw an incomplete IG(it didn't even have the reality gem, ffs) casually manipulate the energies of the UN to its whim -- and those energies have been used on a multiversal scale. Same incomplete IG was >> 5 CCUs, and capable of merging/amalgamating entire universes. Etc.


Again, I simply believe the IG has a greater overall depth of power.

But yet the same beings that you marked as planetary in durability killed LT. Zeno stomps.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I'll respond when I can get on my chrome book. Glad you're here to spark some legitimate discussion.

He's a fine addition to Block1thanos, Thebadguy, Galan007, and of course, our most reasonable poster: cdtm.

But don't sell Carver short. What's the point of being right all the time, if there's not someone wrong to play against?

Originally posted by carver9
But yet the same beings that you marked as planetary in durability killed LT. Zeno stomps. Lmao. The Beyonders being laughably inconsistent doesn't change the level of power that LT was explicitly stated to have possessed in that scene:
http://i.imgur.com/Z7iJbGi.jpg

...But that's neither here nor there, and I was just trying to be a little more fair to Zeno.



Back when LT confronted the classic IG, he existed in, and acted as the judge of, ALL multiverseS simultaneously:
http://i.imgur.com/70KcO22.jpg


This is important because there were INFINITE multiverseS(within the all-encompassing Omniverse) back then:
http://i.imgur.com/vjXSeP2.jpg

*And each multiverse contains INFINITE universeS.


That said, not even LT was sure if he even had enough power to defeat the IG outright. All he knew for certain is that a battle between them would destroy reality:
http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/30519618_Warlock_and_the_Infinity_Watch_001-015.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/30519619_Warlock_and_the_Infinity_Watch_001-017.jpg

...Which in turn means the classic IG was ~ to an omniversal power.



Listen, I don't mind the opinion that Zeno wins -- I just want to know how. I have provided quite a bit of on-panel evidence to support my stance that the IG is superior(and can provide even more if need be.) Now it's your turn.

They pretty much played all their cards.

Zeno either:

1. Destroyed Trunks universe.

2. Destroyed all 12 universe's within Trunk's timeline.

It wasn't especially clear which, but I lean towards one universe, as Zeno to date only destroyed 2 universes. Not all of creation.

^nah, there's also the 6 universes he destroyed by getting slightly PO'd.

Don't worry, good sir, I will respond tonight.

Unless there are still feats out there which haven't been mentioned, I'm not really sure how a legit argument can be made for Zeno..?

As mentioned above: by all implications the classic IG was ~ LT, who was an omniversal power at the time:
http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/30519618_Warlock_and_the_Infinity_Watch_001-015.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/30519619_Warlock_and_the_Infinity_Watch_001-017.jpg

The IG was even stated to be FAR superior to 30 CCUs
http://i.imgur.com/X3jkfdq.jpg
*Mind you, ONE CCU has preformed multi-universal feats in the past.


Even an INcomplete IG was still >> 5 CCUs on panel, capable of casually manipulating the multiversal energies of the UN to its whim, merging entire universes/timelines with a snap, etc.

Moreover, an inadvertent/casual release of energy from Thanos /w/ IG (dubbed "the actuality ripple" spread across the entire Marvel continuum, until it eventually transcended creation all together, and reached the Beyond Realm:
http://i.imgur.com/YRYEfqy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lWC0oyh.jpg

And just so everyone is aware, the Beyond Realm resides entirely outside the prime multiverse/omniverse:
http://i.imgur.com/fAtNgGg.jpg
*That's how we can be sure the actuality ripple transcended the whole of creation.


Heck, even the heavily watered-down, Hickman-era IGs are still capable of effortlessly destroying universes:
http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/30519852_1.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/30519853_2.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/30519854_3.jpg

And effortlessly creating them ex nihilo:
http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/30519855_4.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/30519856_5.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/30519857_6.jpg


Aside from the scope/scale of its power, the IG also allowed for absolute mastery over every facet of creation -- that's why its wielders were repeatedly referred to as "God" and such:
http://i.imgur.com/NMGjpIe.jpg
*One example of many.


Like I keep saying: the IG's depth of power just seems to be far superior. Zeno's ability to destroy a few-dozen universes doesn't mean a whole lot by comparison. But again, that is just my opinion. I am totally open for a cohesive argument for Zeno, though.

Before I respond to everything on this page: was Marvel an Omniverse containing infinite multiverses when PR Beyonder was around? If so, he's a lot more powerful than I thought...

The word/term was occasionally thrown around back then, but it certainly wasn't well-defined until years later.

Fair enough.

I realize I'm fighting an uphill battle here, but I'll muster up something of substance in Zeno's defense.

Wasn't the infinity gauntlet useless outside of the Marvel "Omniverse"? As stated by Darkseid in the crossover? Or was that not canon?

^ That crossover is non-canon.

Though I'm not sure why it matters..? I'm pretty sure the intent is to have a fully functional Gauntlet here, no matter where the battle takes place.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ That crossover is non-canon.

Though I'm not sure why it matters..? I'm pretty sure the intent is to have a fully functional Gauntlet here, no matter where the battle takes place.

Fantastic Four kind of canonized the concept, assuming alternate universe IG's work the same way.

But yeah, defeats the purpose of the thread. It's like arguing Flash can't access the speed force.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ That crossover is non-canon.

Though I'm not sure why it matters..? I'm pretty sure the intent is to have a fully functional Gauntlet here, no matter where the battle takes place.

My point is that the IG is clearly not multiversal, or omniversal, if it only operates in one universe.

However, it's not really fair for me to make any argument here. I personally don't really know much about the IG war arc in Marvel, so I don't want to come off as biased here.

Anyway, from what you're posting Galan, I would definitely give the fight to Thanos at this point. The Omni-King is definitely coming up though. He's already at multiversal level, and that's casual for him. We'll just have to wait and see how powerful he truly is, if he even has any limits.

Doom recently beat an IG user with ease and this is when it was in possession of one of the most smartest beings in MU. Giving this to Zeno.

Zeno isn't Doom. Doom is far, far more powerful than universe/multiverse buster level.

Doom is not "far above" Multiversal, rofl.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
My point is that the IG is clearly not multiversal, or omniversal, if it only operates in one universe. Back in the day, the IG had no such restrictions. The one universe limitation only came about within the last few years. That's why I keep making it a point to say 'classic' IG -- the 'classic' IG is also the iteration specified in the OP.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Anyway, from what you're posting Galan, I would definitely give the fight to Thanos at this point.

I have yet to see any Zeno supporters(especially carver) make a cohesive argument on his behalf. Things might change down the road, but from what I can tell right now, there's really no way the IG doesn't stomp. /shrug

Originally posted by cdtm
Zeno isn't Doom. Doom is far, far more powerful than universe/multiverse buster level.

I'm trying to figure where you are getting this from?

Originally posted by Galan007
Back in the day, the IG had no such restrictions. The one universe limitation only came about within the last few years. That's why I keep making it a point to say 'classic' IG -- the 'classic' IG is also the iteration specified in the OP.



I have yet to see any Zeno supporters(especially carver) make a cohesive argument on his behalf. Things might change down the road, but from what I can tell right now, there's really no way the IG doesn't stomp. /shrug

Well I know that the Marvel abstract power tier was all kinds of jumbled back then, but I'm personally not a huge Marvel fan, and haven't read enough of it in the first place to give a detailed analysis on the fight.

However, all we've really seen from Zeno so far, is destroying a timeline. That's honestly not that impressive. What is really impressive is that people like Beerus, Whiss, Vados, Champa, etc, are all more feeble compared to him, than Goku is compared to Beerus. Even though we've only seen Beerus at around 1% so far, he's still universal level, casually. Imagine what Zeno is really capable of, given that he can destroy anything, or anyone all at once, within all of DBS, with absolutely no effort.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how powerful he really is, lol. We haven't even seen Beerus get remotely serious, and we're like 70 episodes in.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Doom is not "far above" Multiversal, rofl.

Yeah, he is.

The Beyonders waged a war with Living Tribunal across all realities of the Marvel omniverse at the same time, and beat him easily.

Doom absorbed their power using their own weapon, Molecule Man, against them. They essentially ate the Beyonder's, and Doom accessed that power.

The IG couldn't beat Doom, but it could give him pause, which is more than a gang of Celestials or Eternity and Infinity could do.

And you're completely aware of the wildly inconsistent power levels of the Beyonders, along with the fact that it was Owen and Owen alone who possesses the power of the Beyonder Race, and he just gave Doom as much of the power as he seemed fit, correct?

The IG did not give Doom pause, at all. He stomped it. Easily. Far above Multiversal is Current Owen or PR Beyonder. Not God Doom.

Not really that inconsistant. The only showing remotely inconsistant was one being transmutated into a tree. Starbrand self destructed, which could be well within a Starbrands ambigious power.

And what comic book power "don't" have low showings. May as well bring up LT failing to kill Protege or Korvak.

On average, they killed the Marvel Omniverse, and every top abstract in it.

And Doom tapped that same power. There's no reason to believe Owen "limited" Doom, up until he decided Reed would be better suited for the power.

And T'challa definately slowed Doom down. Doom groaned in pain, and it took longer than it did to kill, say, Scott/Phoenix.

Pretty sure the detonation of some hundred thousand universes was enough to kill them as well. Thor, Hyperion, and Starbrand were going toe to toe with them. That's inconsistent.

The difference is that they have many lows as highs. It's not like they ****ed up here and there, after their slaughtering of the LT, all of their feats were low.

And there's no reason to believe that Owen gave Doom the absolute entirety of his power. Hell, the fact you believe the IG slowed Doom down/challenged him directly disproves that notion. You're essentially telling me:

Owen ~ God Doom >>>>>>>>>> 3 Beyonders > LT > IG, yet also saying the IG gave Doom pause. Doesn't make much sense to me, tbh. /shrug

When Doom got serious, he crushed T'challa. Because Doom is Doom, and the IG is something lesser.

Originally posted by Galan007
I was about to ask if this guy had done something spectacular, because...well...he's fighting THANOS WITH THE INFINITY GAUNTLET... But apparently he hasn't done much at all, lol. srsly

That said, Thanos wins with the merest pucker of his *******.

Thanos destroys him.


Originally posted by Galan007

I have yet to see any Zeno supporters(especially carver) make a cohesive argument on his behalf. Things might change down the road, but from what I can tell right now, there's really no way the IG doesn't stomp. /shrug


The DBZ wank is real, nothing new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O96Q-ZzfJ4s

Originally posted by Classic NES
Thanos destroys him.





The DBZ wank is real, nothing new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O96Q-ZzfJ4s

Oh, absolutely. They were insane beforr Super, and now that they have a few actual galaxy/universal feats under their belt they're unbearable.

Newsflash, most comic book characters have the odd over the top feat. Genis-Vell killed the multiverse. By fanboy logic, Genis > all.

Originally posted by cdtm
Oh, absolutely. They were insane beforr Super, and now that they have a few actual galaxy/universal feats under their belt they're unbearable.

Newsflash, most comic book characters have the odd over the top feat. Genis-Vell killed the multiverse. By fanboy logic, Genis > all.

DBZtards don't believe in outliers unless it's low ends which they dismiss as a "gag". cancerous fandom for sure.

Zeno cries and shits his huggies before Thanos hilariously erases him with a simple gesture