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1. Sabers

2. Force

3. All-Out

Caedus stomps

Obviously Caedus, but obviously not a stomp.

Caedus brings da broom.

Caedus sweeps

Originally posted by carthage
Caedus stomps

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Obviously Caedus, but obviously not a stomp.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Obviously Caedus, but obviously not a stomp.

It's not a stomp but Caedus definitely wins - in each area, I'd say.

Each area as in sabers and Force or are we talking about like, telekinesis, sorcery, etc.?

Sabers and Force, of course. How would Caedus take him in Sorcery?

Post in my thread, plox.

Caedus stomps

Marco loses

Ragnos stomps.

Luke threatened that the entire order (including himself) would only be sufficient enough to stop Ragnos. Let's compare that to Kyle Katarn being threat to Caedus alone... with the former only besting him circumstantially. So I hope the no feats.txt crowd are satisfied : Ragnos wins via Holistic intent.

Caedus only beat Kyle and co. with circumstances... but Ragnos only lost to Jaden Korr on a DS nexus with circumstances. Caedus slaughters.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Caedus only beat Kyle and co. with circumstances... but Ragnos only lost to Jaden Korr on a DS nexus with circumstances. Caedus slaughters.

I don't see Ragnos' disciples being featured here, and given that they're not mentioned, I'm going to have to go with Luke's opinion of what kind of threat a fully revived Ragnos imposes, and not your own fanboyish one.

Ragnos stomps Caedus. And given his hype, Caedus would have to make several dopplegangers just to compete.

I don't see retarded logic being featured here, and given that it's not mentioned, I'm going to have to go with a sensible combination of feats and hype, and conclude that Caedus wins in a good fight, rather than your fanboyish conclusion.

Looking back on the ancient Sith nowadays, I've come to realize that they were all written in a time where Star Wars was a massive experiment. There was no known boundry to the Force, it could be literally anything and manifest itself in any way. So, instead of the more practical telekinesis and lightning as well as legitimate feats, you had extreme levels of hype, spells, sorcery and just in general more archaic and flashy sides of the Force explored. Have to say, I actually like that side of Star Wars more than the practical, basic and monotone side.

Still, though, combative feats, reasonable accolades and practical powers >sorcery, flashy powers and hype. So I'll still take Caedus, though I admit it should be a decent fight.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Caedus only beat Kyle and co. with circumstances... but Ragnos only lost to Jaden Korr on a DS nexus with circumstances. Caedus slaughters.

Erm. What?

Ragnos spirit, likely far weaker than himself in the flesh, posessing the body of already beaten Tavionn, which would - due to her relative competence as a force user - further limit Ragnos' access to his full abilities, was beaten by Jaden Korr. Luke Skywalkers comment about needing the entire Jedi Academy to try to stop Ragnos was made for the Sith Lord back in his flesh - which is what is being argued here.

And seriously: Given what we know about the Ancient Sith in combat (Hord destroying a 1,000 Jedi on his own, Nadd defeating the drexl-riding beast riders of Onderon on his own), and knowing that Ragnos is supposed to be more powerful than all of them, one should assume that Caedus is up for some serious trouble here.

That Ragnos' capabilities aren't spelled out in the form of actual feats shouldn't matter that much, if we have a definite rating of his competence compared to the multitute of people we have feats from. And based on that implications, Ragnos could very well win, based on hype to his name. If you want to make it a comparison based on feats, then, yes, Caedus probably wins. But then again: It would most certainly not be a "stomp".

I didn't say it was a stomp. In my serious posts, I mentioned it was a good fight.

I'm using retarded logic as he was - that kind of response doesn't warrant a legitimate reply. I'm fully aware of the circumstances in the fight with Tavion/Korr.

Pretty sure TOR writers retconned this after realizing how stupid it was and how it did not fit into EU canon. Now it's just Hord destroying those two planets and their combatants, not 1,000 jedi.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Pretty sure TOR writers retconned this after realizing how stupid it was and how it did not fit into EU canon. Now it's just Hord destroying those two planets and their combatants, not 1,000 jedi.

I'm rather certain that TOR authors didn't retcon the incident where Nadd goes and conquers Onderon, defeating the Beast Rider army on his own in the process.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Pretty sure TOR writers retconned this after realizing how stupid it was and how it did not fit into EU canon. Now it's just Hord destroying those two planets and their combatants, not 1,000 jedi. Nah he destroyed an army of Jedi 1,000 strong, but with the help of his own forces.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I didn't say it was a stomp. In my serious posts, I mentioned it was a good fight.

I'm using retarded logic as he was - that kind of response doesn't warrant a legitimate reply. I'm fully aware of the circumstances in the fight with Tavion/Korr.

First of all Nova, retarded is always a distasteful term to use in any context. While you might think that it emphasizes your points in a plight to appear the 'more objective' faction, all you're really doing is marginalizing a group of individuals less able than yourself. Which is hardly what I'd expect from someone supposedly championing a "scholarly agenda" rather than a personal one.



Secondly, no. The comparison made between Tavion, or any of Ragnos' "disciples" for that matter, and a corporeal bodied Ragnos commanding his full power, has literally nothing to do with Luke's opinion of what might happen if the latter ever appeared in the flesh. Using the same logic, I might as well base Jacen's strength off his apprentice, Tahari Veila. So other than a serious case of aggrieved anal pains on your part, there was literally no point in mentioning it.

I never said the logic used in the posts were equatable. All I'm saying is that if you want to get high and present stupid arguments, don't expect other people to be taking you seriously. To that end, my agenda in that post was to note your stupidity and join in the fun. That's all.

Now, I'm aware that you'll be coming back with more snarky remarks fitting of a product of the Chernobyl accident, but I think I've already made my point and thus will withdraw now. Adios.

Someone refresh my memory on the evidence of Ragnos's explicit position relative to Hord and Nadd. I barely recall the timeline and I'm told SWTOR wrinkles it further. Didn't Hord predate Ragnos and Nadd succeed him, each by a considerable measure of time?

Also, Luke says there's no telling what a resurrected Ragnos might be capable of. He's hardly got a firm grasp of what he's dealing with. 👍

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Also, Luke says there's no telling what a resurrected Ragnos might be capable of. He's hardly got a firm grasp of what he's dealing with. 👍
Not to mention - during the same game series - Luke had a habit of hyping up the bad guys to ridiculous levels. I would hardly take his opinions as gospel.

Desann being a Palpatine level threat anyone?

Isn't this the same Luke who thought that Obi-Wan was his better? And yes, he did overhype every villain he came across, so the Ragnos hype doesn't come off as particularly overwhelming - not to mention that Luke has nothing to base his speculation of Ragnos' powers on except the spirit of Exar Kun, who is canonically more powerful than Ragnos and was situated on a more powerful nexus/had a more powerful host to enact his powers through.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I never said the logic used in the posts were equatable. All I'm saying is that if you want to get high and present stupid arguments, don't expect other people to be taking you seriously.

Oh you didn't, did you? And this wouldn't be another 180 degrees maneuver from the points you were trying to make, but failed to convey properly? Well, if that's not the case, then why were you supposedly employing the "same retarded logic" as I? Call me retarded, but I'm pretty certain that implies the logic in said posts were "equatable", that is at least, what your opinion seems to suggest.



Well that agenda is not working particularly well then, considering the rather large crater that's been excavated with you at the bottom. If that point wasn't clear, then re-read Nai's posting, where he explains why the original point on Ragnos' hype is most certainly relevant to this thread, while most of the premises you've generated aren't. And if your intentions are to "make fun", you're not going to have an easy ride with that either. I'm a lot more witty than you are, and certainly more patient - probably better looking than you are too. You will loose.



I which case I will leave you with one: stop being a little *****.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
And if your intentions are to "make fun", you're not going to have an easy ride with that either. I'm a lot more witty than you are, and certainly more patient - probably better looking than you are too. You will loose.



Also, the fact that you're willing to bask in your own stupidity but can't take it when somebody else acts the same way is ironic, no? Keep trying to sound smart and witty. One day, you might fool someone.

It's like walking into a salt mine.

Father, do you still believe Ziggy is who you said he was? mmm

It's more like walking into a brothel. ***** management requires a strong pimping hand and mine is getting sore.

Probably because you are a pimp.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Father, do you still believe Ziggy is who you said he was? mmm

No idea. Diet-Nai's origins may never be determined.

I wonder if anyone reckons that Ragnos could beat Caedus in Force. After all, Ragnos is the most powerful Sith Lord up to and of his time, which puts him above the likes of Muur and Hord, both of whom seem to be absurdly powerful and in a similar class to Caedus in Force power/mastery. I'd imagine that the Force round would be incredibly close.

That would depend on where you rank Exar Kun.

Not above Caedus tbh.

What evidence is there that Ragnos is definitively above the likes of Muur and Hord? That's what I was asking earlier.

A lot of sources strongly suggest that Ragnos is the most powerful Sith Lord up to and of his time, which puts him above Muur and Hord. "Most powerful of the most powerful" and his array of "greatest" quotes, whilst hardly definitive, do seem to point in that direction.

Nothing but stature and hype, in all honesty.

Ragnos still beats Caedus' ass red before Caedus barely survives this confrontation.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That would depend on where you rank Exar Kun.

Not above Caedus tbh.

I don't put Kun above Caedus in Force with respects to raw power, but he does have some edges just because of his insane knowledge and presumable mastery. I still put him about equal with Revan, Caedus and Krayt in terms of Force.

Originally posted by SunRazer
A lot of sources strongly suggest that Ragnos is the most powerful Sith Lord up to and of his time, which puts him above Muur and Hord. "Most powerful of the most powerful" and his array of "greatest" quotes, whilst hardly definitive, do seem to point in that direction.

I'm on my phone, so bear with me. But I recall that Ragnos's quote about being the most powerful of the most powerful come from the publisher's summary and not within the text itself. That aside, while I don't dispute that he was the strongest Sith Lord at the time, we must also consider that it refers to his position as ruler. Sources since then have indicated that much of his reign owes to strategy and manipulation, not just brute strength. And while the likes of Sadow and Kressh grovel before his spirit, sources like the Essential Atlas mention that reverence for the dead was a crux of ancient Sith culture.

Can you point me to the quotes/indicators of Ragnos's superiority over the likes of Muur, Hord, and Nadd?

"Meanwhile, on the far side of the galaxy, the Sith Empire has grown powerful through centuries of dark Force wielding and magic and the hundred-year rule of the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith, Marka Ragnos."

--Chronicles of the Old Repubic

The quotes I'm referring to are the "most powerful of the most powerful" and all the "greatest of the Dark Lords" quotes. As I said, none of it is definitive. His quotes can refer to the greatness of his reign and legacy as much as his power.

I interpret the former quote as a reference to power because Dark Lords are the most powerful Sith Lords of their time, and the quote puts Ragnos as the most powerful of those. Then there's other little tidbits like the KotOR II game files having Kreia being "in awe" of Ragnos' power but not Hord's, Sadow's or Pall's. Again, nothing too definitive, it's just that my interpretation, built off various tidbits across a number of sources. But your case is valid as well.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"Meanwhile, on the far side of the galaxy, the Sith Empire has grown powerful
through centuries of dark Force wielding and magic and the hundred-year rule
of the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith, MARKA RAGNOS."

--Chronicles of the Old Repubic

I don't dispute his leadership skills. But what about his power compared to theirs.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I wonder if anyone reckons that Ragnos could beat Caedus in Force. After all, Ragnos is the most powerful Sith Lord up to and of his time, which puts him above the likes of Muur and Hord, both of whom seem to be absurdly powerful and in a similar class to Caedus in Force power/mastery. I'd imagine that the Force round would be incredibly close.

Lol this is a joke right?

It's true. Caedus couldn't even Force Push Kyle Katarn

Well, to be fair, Ragnos with his mighty scepter was shamed by Kyle's apprentice on a dark side nexus.

And Tahiri Veila ran away from a Krayt Dragon

Most Jedi and Sith would run from a Krayt Dragon tbh

Originally posted by JKBart
Most Jedi and Sith would run from a Krayt Dragon tbh

examples?

Bane would freeze in terror.

The real answer is that most fodder would run away from a Krayt Dragon. And I'm pretty sure they were considered hunting game, among the most skilled Tusken Raiders.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
The real answer is that most fodder would run away from a Krayt Dragon. And I'm pretty sure they were considered hunting game, among the most skilled Tusken Raiders.

Game Hunters also hunted them. This whole fodder term is thrown around far too loosely in SW.

Yup. fodder

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Yup. fodder

Which you said would run....except they don't. So...yeah. Only time anyone would run, is if they weren't prepared...but then that's just basic logic.

This is helping my stance tbh.

This has nothing to do with Caedus lmao.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
This is helping my stance tbh.

Not sure what you're getting at here, you said fodder would run from a Krayt Dragon.

Except that would only be the case, if they weren't prepared for it. You seemed to imply, they would just run away because reasons.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
This has nothing to do with Caedus lmao.

You're right, shall we discuss Aurra sing vs Jacen solo?

Or the team of rookies alongside kyle, giving him a hiding in the sabers department?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm on my phone, so bear with me. But I recall that Ragnos's quote about being the most powerful of the most powerful come from the publisher's summary and not within the text itself. That aside, while I don't dispute that he was the strongest Sith Lord at the time, we must also consider that it refers to his position as ruler. Sources since then have indicated that much of his reign owes to strategy and manipulation, not just brute strength. And while the likes of Sadow and Kressh grovel before his spirit, sources like the Essential Atlas mention that reverence for the dead was a crux of ancient Sith culture.

Can you point me to the quotes/indicators of Ragnos's superiority over the likes of Muur, Hord, and Nadd?

"I am vindicated! The great Dark Lord has come to crush you for your sacrilege, Naga Sadow."

Source: Tales of the Jedi: The Golden Age of the Sith 2: Funeral for a Dark Lord

Maybe this is only to a live Ragnos but still...