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*Marek as of his duel with Shaak Ti

Force sabers all out

Who wins?

Galen wins Force barely, gets utterly outclassed in sabers only, and the same goes for all out, though Galen will put up resistance with the Force at times

Nyriss destroys

Nyriss, good fight, though.

Galen in a great fight.

Nyriss.

Darth Nyriss

Lol

What's so funny?

It's not really that unreasonable to suggest that Nyriss would beat Galen as of his first time on Felucia.

Nyriss > Ti

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol

^

One of the greatest PT swordsmasters amped by the planet and with the flora and fauna at her command > Nyriss defeating Shit!Meetra and Struggles-With-Battle-Droids!Scourge, especially off of Dromund Kaas.

At this point Marek is also already destroying thousands of technobeasts and blowing open rancor skulls with a TK. And not long after casually one-shotted an AT-AT with his Force lightning.

Nyriss gets raped.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Nyriss

You could have quoted anyone, but you chose Legend.

Intentionally. He's the mightiest intellectual to ever grace kmc.

So much wrong that if I started, It'd need to be numerous parts to explain to you how mind bogglingly uninformed that claim is. Instead I'll keep it short.

Shaak changed the planet's alignment with her presence, something the TFU sourcebook states any moderately strong Force user can do. She didn't amp herself with said presence, nor is that ever implied to be the case.

Meetra fought somebody much stronger than Shaak Ti in Darth Traya and defeated her in a far more detrimental situation. Meetra was losing to Darth Nyriss because her Force augmentation wasn't at full and Nyriss physically overwhelmed her in turn.

Lord Scourge weakened himself in the fight, in a similar way to Darth Nihilus, by attempting to draw emotions externally. The droids he faced obviously aren't providing anything, Darth Nyriss corrects his mistake following that and teaches him to draw internally as well.

Nyriss casually charred her (presumably armoured) guards to husks with a single burst, and had storms potent enough to smash the barrier of and ash genuine powerhouses. Unless Marek is ashing Shaak Ti, Kazdan Paratus or Rahm Kota with his lightning, color me unconvinced.

Yeah, Sidious would need to bring in Vader for this one.

Originally posted by AncientPower
So much wrong that if I started, It'd need to be numerous parts to explain to you how mind bogglingly uninformed that claim is. Instead I'll keep it short.

Shaak changed the planet's alignment with her presence, something the TFU sourcebook states any moderately strong Force user can do. She didn't amp herself with said presence, nor is that ever implied to be the case.

Meetra fought somebody much stronger than Shaak Ti in Darth Traya and defeated her in a far more detrimental situation. Meetra was losing to Darth Nyriss because her Force augmentation wasn't at full and Nyriss physically overwhelmed her in turn.

Lord Scourge weakened himself in the fight, in a similar way to Darth Nihilus, by attempting to draw emotions externally. The droids he faced obviously aren't providing anything, Darth Nyriss corrects his mistake following that and teaches him to draw internally as well.

Nyriss casually charred her (presumably armoured) guards to husks with a single burst, and had storms potent enough to smash the barrier of and ash genuine powerhouses. Unless Marek is ashing Shaak Ti, Kazdan Paratus or Rahm Kota with his lightning, color me unconvinced.

It states she shifted the planet out of balance. While I don't deny the guide indicates strong force users are able to change the alignment of Felucia we know for a fact that Galen's ability to draw on the dark side was weakened by what Shaak did to the planet.

I don't view Traya as being far more powerful then Shaak given their respective feats. Traya's best is draining 3 council members while Shaak was capable of influencing the native flora and sarlaac in her fight with Galen along with being able to affect him with several of her force attacks. Given Galen's force feats by this time I don't see the disparity between Traya and Shaak being all that large. Regardless there were numerous disadvantages Galen had in his fight with Shaak not only his connection to the Force being weakened but having had to fight through an army of Force users beforehand and then facing an opponent who used Felucia's environment and native species against him during their fight.

I'm pretty sure powering the hyperdrive of a ship enormous enough to take Galen hours to get around even with his enhanced speed is better then Nyriss's own lightning feat.

By feats, Galen obviously destroys her.

By powerscaling, from getting oneshotted by Revan, Nyriss is destroyed.

TFU Shaak Ti faced a fatigued Galen with environmental advantages, and why are we assuming her to be weak? She's less known than Galen; it makes more sense to scale her off him rather than the reverse.

Originally posted by AncientPower
So much wrong that if I started, It'd need to be numerous parts to explain to you how mind bogglingly uninformed that claim is. Instead I'll keep it short.Lmao.The planet was incredibly strong in the Force, and the native Felucians were able to draw on that power for strength, why would Ti be different?Yeah back when she was capable, we are dealing with Shit!Meetra here who is supposedly rivaled by Scourge. And Traya isn't beating Shaak Ti on Felucia lol, not without Drain.Exactly, and if you pay attention to the text you'll notice Scourge is too caught off-guard to even launch a counter-offense, let alone draw on Nyriss' emotions, hence his crappy performance.On a nexus, a Dooku+ feat at best. Marek's Force lightning downed a frikken rancor, so who cares?

And I don't remember her ashing anyone other than her weakened/incompetent self.Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah, Sidious would need to bring in Vader for this one. Nah, prolly just send some Inquisitors.

It'd have to be Jerec.

Personally I'd take Nyriss due to greater dueling ability.

As far as lightsaber combat goes, I'm more impressed with Nyriss utterly shitting on Meetra and Scourge than I am Marek being an inferior duelist to Shaak Ti but one good enough to compete (which is his best dueling feat as of this point considering Vader was holding back against him in spars and his other two lightsaber wielding foes of note have only their fights with Galen to wank their dueling skill off of).

And as far as the Force goes, Nyriss has some insanely impressive lightning, charring two men, overpowering Meetra, and being capable of reducing Force wielders to ash when charged, so I think she can compete.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
It'd have to be Jerec. Well, he is sufficiently terrid. Originally posted by Emperordmb
And as far as the Force goes, Nyriss has some insanely impressive lightning, charring two men, overpowering Meetra, and being capable of reducing Force wielders to ash when charged, so I think she can compete. Yet got shat on by Revan, I have serious doubts.

All of those nexus feats are mega impressive. Bane would love her.

I didn't even have to click the thread to know that a post Aurbere made so soon after mine would contain such blatantly obvious bait.

When will you write my death in your fanfic?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yet got shat on by Revan, I have serious doubts.

To be fair, Shaak Ti would also get fodderized by Revan.

And it was her own lightning that killed her, wasn't it?

We have no idea how capable TFU Shaak is...aside from her battle with Galen, so it's horribly circular to lowball him by making assumptions about her.

By feats, Galen ragdolls her.

Originally posted by Aurbere
All of those nexus feats are mega impressive. Bane would love her.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
We have no idea how capable TFU Shaak is...aside from her battle with Galen, so it's horribly circular to lowball him by making assumptions about her.

By feats, Galen ragdolls her. Yeah Revan isn't shitting on Ti, at least not as of the novel.

"Revan isn't shitting on Ti"

I hate Revan, and that comment gave me straight AIDS.

Yeah, Revan dumpsters Shaak.

Lawls.

EDIT: But really, if she almost succeeded in killing Galen Marek, Revan is not "dumpstering" her, not on Felucia, he's not nearly above him enough by the novel to justify such an outcome.

Originally posted by Aurbere
When will you write my death in your fanfic?

Originally posted by carthage





That aside. What's going on ere? Whats the main debate for both sides?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
That aside. What's going on ere? Whats the main debate for both sides?

http://mtv.mtvnimages.com/uri/mgid:file:http:shared:mtv.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/mgwEu93.gif

Accurate summation, Sas

Originally posted by Trocity
Yeah, Revan dumpsters Shaak.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Personally I'd take Nyriss due to greater dueling ability.

As far as lightsaber combat goes, I'm more impressed with Nyriss utterly shitting on Meetra and Scourge than I am Marek being an inferior duelist to Shaak Ti but one good enough to compete (which is his best dueling feat as of this point considering Vader was holding back against him in spars and his other two lightsaber wielding foes of note have only their fights with Galen to wank their dueling skill off of).

And as far as the Force goes, Nyriss has some insanely impressive lightning, charring two men, overpowering Meetra, and being capable of reducing Force wielders to ash when charged, so I think she can compete.

A weakened Meetra and a Scourge who empowered by Dromund Kaas was her equal. You yourself told me in the call yesterday that you think multiple weak opponents do not equal a single greater opponent.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
As far as lightsaber combat goes, I'm more impressed with Nyriss utterly shitting on Meetra and Scourge than I am Marek being an inferior duelist to Shaak Ti but one good enough to compete (which is his best dueling feat as of this point considering Vader was holding back against him in spars and his other two lightsaber wielding foes of note have only their fights with Galen to wank their dueling skill off of).

Some phenomenal circular logic there

"Shaak's not that good because Galen wasn't good at that stage. Galen's shit, he couldn't even beat Shaak Ti, and she's his only measuring stick"

Right, top class debating from DMB once again

We know it's likely Shaak was being empowered by the Light Side nexus she herself created and that she grew in power between her magnaguard feat and TFU. She also had the environment aiding her during the fight. That's 3 things in favor of Shaak without taking into account the hindrances Galen suffered that you failed to take into account dmb.

Sorry friend but I have to agree with Sel here.

How dare you, Sel. How. Dare. You.

This circular logic is getting ridiculous.

TFU Shaak Ti can't be quantified outside of her fight with Galen, so it's pointless to scale him off of her. She could be weaker than Qui Gon or more powerful than Dooku; we have no clue.

What we can actually use is the fact that Galen at that point has already pulled off the feats that make him a Force Titan that could squish Nyriss like an insect.

Well we do have a baseline for Shaak given she isn't featless pre TFU.

Well Ti didn't really have many duels pre-TFU either. As I recall she fought and killed one of Dooku's Dark Acolytes, then 'fought' Grevious twice, one of which she was overwhelmed and the other she was stomped.

What's important is that she's a celebrated swordsmaster, and considering she evidently possessed the strength, speed and stamina to contend with Marek, he would himself have to have possessed appreciable skill with the blade to defeat her.

Beyond that Marek's feats speak for themselves.

>Taking them exaggerated feats at face-value
>KEK

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
>Taking them exaggerated feats at face-value
>KEK

> wanks kyp "moving black holes" durron
> KEK

Better than dildoing to Ti's pics at least. Her only major appearances has her play a punching bag for actual relevant characters.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Better than dildoing to Ti's pics at least. Her only major appearances has her play a punching bag for actual relevant characters.


http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.139973808.1307/flat,800x800,075,f.u3.jpg

Originally posted by Syndicate
A weakened Meetra and a Scourge who empowered by Dromund Kaas was her equal. You yourself told me in the call yesterday that you think multiple weak opponents do not equal a single greater opponent.
I was not the one who said that, that was somebody else in the call.

Originally posted by Selenial
Some phenomenal circular logic there

"Shaak's not that good because Galen wasn't good at that stage. Galen's shit, he couldn't even beat Shaak Ti, and she's his only measuring stick"

Right, top class debating from DMB once again
I'm saying prior to his fight with Shaak Ti he doesn't have very impressive or wankable dueling feats because his opponent's only dueling feats are fighting him so you can't scale him off of circular logic, and I don't think it works to wank her off of his dueling capabilities because of this. In any case I find her magnaguard feat a more impressive dueling feat regardless.

I am saying you can use Shaak to wank Galen's dueling ability since his fight with her is the most quantifiably impressive thing he's done as a duelist at this point, I simply don't think it puts him on Nyriss's level.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I was not the one who said that, that was somebody else in the call.


I'm saying prior to his fight with Shaak Ti he doesn't have very impressive or wankable dueling feats because his opponent's only dueling feats are fighting him so you can't scale him off of circular logic, and I don't think it works to wank her off of his dueling capabilities because of this. In any case I find her magnaguard feat a more impressive dueling feat regardless.

I am saying you can use Shaak to wank Galen's dueling ability since his fight with her is the most quantifiably impressive thing he's done as a duelist at this point, I simply don't think it puts him on Nyriss's level.

You did. It was in reference to the 4 Jedi Grievous faced vs when he faced Windu.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I was not the one who said that, that was somebody else in the call.


I'm saying prior to his fight with Shaak Ti he doesn't have very impressive or wankable dueling feats because his opponent's only dueling feats are fighting him so you can't scale him off of circular logic, and I don't think it works to wank her off of his dueling capabilities because of this. In any case I find her magnaguard feat a more impressive dueling feat regardless.

I am saying you can use Shaak to wank Galen's dueling ability since his fight with her is the most quantifiably impressive thing he's done as a duelist at this point, I simply don't think it puts him on Nyriss's level.

Why? What has Nyriss done off nexus?

A weakened Meetra? Lulz. Also, how were they her equal?

Yes. It's stated in the Revan novel.

No, it is not.

Even if it wasn't it's only logical given it was a dark side nexus.

But one moment.

All her feats were on dark side nexus'.

Have you even read the novel, or do you just swallow everything AP feeds you?

Galen might beat her in a contest of 'who can lift the biggest shit', but at least when in comes to a duel or a struggle of Force powers, he's getting stomped out of his wits.

Nyriss' sparkles are probably rivaling Sidious' lightning... and outdueling scourge and Surik is far more impressive than Sidious' having to separate Maul & Savage.

Read the novel. Don't even know AP beyond that he's an Exar wanker.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
All her feats were on dark side nexus'.

Hmmm. True true.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Read the novel. Don't even know AP beyond that he's an Exar wanker.

Yeah, I think AP goes too far with that sometimes.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Galen might beat her in a contest of 'who can lift the biggest shit', but at least when in comes to a duel or a struggle of Force powers, he's getting stomped out of his wits.

Nyriss' sparkles are probably rivaling Sidious' lightning... and outdueling scourge and Surik is far more impressive than Sidious' having to separate Maul & Savage.
Reported for terrorism.

osama

Originally posted by NewGuy01
http://mtv.mtvnimages.com/uri/mgid:file:http:shared:mtv.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/mgwEu93.gif

Lmao.

Originally posted by Syndicate
A weakened Meetra and a Scourge who empowered by Dromund Kaas was her equal. You yourself told me in the call yesterday that you think multiple weak opponents do not equal a single greater opponent.

You are taking the first steps. You'll soon see as clear as I did.

Don't fret, you are so close child!

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Lmao.



You are taking the first steps. You'll soon see as clear as I did.

Don't fret, you are so close child!

It's happening a lot quicker for him. Strange.

Originally posted by Aurbere
It's happening a lot quicker for him. Strange.

All that has transpired, has done so according to my design.

He will see the truth, or be slain.

Originally posted by Aurbere
When will you write my death in your fanfic?

He got you pretty good here, DMB. Fight back with even more vitriol.

Nyriss still stomping

Originally posted by Beniboybling
EDIT: But really, if she almost succeeded in killing Galen Marek, Revan is not "dumpstering" her, not on Felucia, he's not nearly above him enough by the novel to justify such an outcome.
Damn, this just get better and better.

Pretty much every version of Revan would kick Galen to the curb and that's including Darth Revan

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Pretty much every version of Revan would kick Galen to the curb and that's including Darth Revan

Eh..

Galen gets stomped, he's a scrub.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
>Taking them exaggerated feats at face-value
>KEK

Nowhere is it stated that TFU feats are exaggerated. They're stated to be "over the top" - but they're also stated to be the deliberate product of wanting to make Galen Marek and Luke-potential-tier Force user. In other words, "over the top" means "he's really f*cking powerful", not "the events are distorted and deceptive".

Even if you think Galen doesn't have many dueling feats, or isn't very good at it because you just arbitrarily define TFU Shaak Ti to be weak, his absurd strength in the Force gives him an easy win.

You do know over-the-top is practically synonymous with exaggerated, right? LMFAO.

The fact that a relatively "whateves" Jedi like Kota was pulling off feats that embarrasses members on the Council is telling enough. TFU was just a huge power porn trip.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo You do know over-the-top is practically synonymous with exaggerated, right?

That's one possible definition - the other possible one is excessive, which hardly suggests that the invisible narrator/generator of events is inventing false stories to lie about what happened. This interpretation breaks the fourth wall, and as such is very undesirable - but it's completely unnecessary because we have quotes from the creators saying that they wanted Galen to represent what Luke would've been had he been trained by Vader.

And funnily enough, if you don't trust TFU game or novelization to depict events, how the hell are we supposed to judge his character?



Which feats make you think he embarrasses members on the Council, and why do you circularly assume that Kota is weak just because Vader could ragdoll him?

Originally posted by The Ellimist


Which feats make you think he embarrasses members on the Council, and why do you circularly assume that Kota is weak just because Vader could ragdoll him?

Probably the tearing of a TIE construction command center and deflecting Lighting with ease while laughing.

Which then probably raises the question, why wasn't he on the Council?

I think I summed it up well there.

But then there isn't really anything that contradicts his power, in fact by TFU 2 he seems better considering he fought 7 days straight without rest against a variety of opponents, his 1st being a Krayt Dragon along with suffering injuries which weren't a big deal to him thanks to The Force.

Compared to TFU where he was gased out in just a short duel from Galen.

Kota was a maverick who refused to use clones. Dooku never made it on the council either.

Maybe Kota is just more powerful in the force than the likes of Fisto, Bulq, or Kolar? Or has everyone bought the "feats don't matter" bullshit from 2 months ago

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Kota was a maverick who refused to use clones. Dooku never made it on the council either.
Anakin never made it to Master. Therefore this is evidence of all Knights being above Master level.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Pretty much every version of Revan would kick Galen to the curb and that's including Darth Revan

Not at all.

Originally posted by NTJack0
Galen gets stomped, he's a scrub.

Care to debate that?

Just read some of this. It is funny to observe the type of chicanery fanboys will use, when no one competent is there to call semi-obvious bluffs.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
This circular logic is getting ridiculous.

Correction - This circular logic is getting ridiculous. And the accusatory finger can be pointed towards the Starkiller fanboy, not anyone else. Do you even know what circularity is, or why it undermines correct attempts to make a claim valid? It is because circular dialect does not offer proper justification for what someone is trying to prove. For that reason, trying to prove Galen's competency as a duelist against Shaak Ti is perfectly logical, because we can justify her powers.



Correction - The Starkiller fanboy doesn't want Shaak Ti to be quantified, because it is the exact comparison that will end in his defeat. The Starkiller fanboy senses this, so he must interrupt the dispute, break it off altogether, or lead the opponent to a different subject. Instead, point out that Shaak ti must be extraordinarily powerful to challenge (and basically defeat) Galen... because I mean... look at all this big shit he lifted with TK!



Correction - There are plenty enough "clues" to where Shaak Ti might stand among Qui Gon; and almost everything hints to her being below that level. Britain is continually praised for having a better education system than the USA. When a child is bedridden with sickness, and can't show up to an exam, the paper is discarded and she is examined on her past aptitude. We already have a nice set of saber-showings for Shaak... Getting stomped by Grevious... twice. Struggling with a magnaguard. Not being skilled for a b-team candidacy. Her only notable kill is some rando mercenary, a non Force-sensitive doucher for the separatist movement. Now, did she improve? Maybe she did. But the only three piers in this regard (well known clone war survivors) are Maul, Kenobi and Yoda. And to be honest, all of their combat skills waned.



Well, His battle with Shaak ti indicates he won't be squishing anything, or anyone. Rather that he'll be the one getting squished. Like an insect.

I hope this offends the right people.

Given I already explained my reasoning that I believe Shaak can be scaled and my reasons for scaling Galen above Nyriss based on his feats and performances against Shaak which as I mentioned were riddled with circumstances I'm not offended by your post even though it strikes me as ignorant and trolly.

Genuinely syndicate, it wasn't meant to offend you. And given your interest for Galen, I do omit some emotional turmoil when bagging on his abilities. The truth is, I just don't think he's particularly powerful. Even at all. If he was, he wouldn't struggle against the people or the obstacles he faces as much as he should.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
All her feats were on dark side nexus'.

Yeah that only makes her more impressive.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Genuinely syndicate, it wasn't meant to offend you. And given your interest for Galen, I do omit some emotional turmoil when bagging on his abilities. The truth is, I just don't think he's particularly powerful. Even at all. If he was, he wouldn't struggle against the people or the obstacles he faces as much as he should.

While I appreciate your work in regards to getting more people to appreciate Kun and helping to get rid of the Caedus wank I have to disagree in this instance. I think that's because we have a fundamental difference in the way we view powerscaling mine being a feats first approach.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Anakin never made it to Master. Therefore this is evidence of all Knights being above Master level.

Dumbest blunder you've ever made. I was refuting the claim that the generalization works, not claiming that it actively supports the opposite.

I dunno where you're even going here. I never claimed they are "inventing false stories". By exaggeration - I meant everyone's ability in the Force in increased to abnormal levels when compared of the rest of Legends canon because the crux of the game was to more or less, be power porn for the fans. The writers themselves stated as much. Meaning, if you put any Force users from another media platform in TFU - they will be pulling of the exact same bullshit "ehh" Jedi like Kota was. It's not a hard concept to grasp, honestly.

TCW is the anti-thesis to TFU, in that it has a habit of actually "lowballing" Force users. We see Death Watching Mando's Ko'ing Kenobi, or Dooku getting taken out by pirates, when, in actuality, Obi-Wan should be capable of plowing threw them, and the Count should be capable of beating entire "armies" like his martial peers Darth Maul and Darth Vader.

If you have a different outlook and perspective on the matter, cool. You're not right or wrong on the matter 'cause it's fiction. I'm going to continue to call exaggerated bullshit with every rip, tho.




I have no problem with Galen being a Darth Vader level Force users, with Luke level potential. My quarrel with the series is --- everyone, and I do mean everyone, and their mother are pulling high-level feats of Force and mastery --- when they were nothing more than footnotes in the grand hierarchy of things.




You want my honest opinion on the matter? It shouldn't be used in the battle forum at all. In fact, it should be erased from the Legends canon in general and fall into the fan-fiction pile. The characters are shitty, the story is shitty, and so is the game in general.





Zen already summed it up exactly, so I'm not even going to waste time reciting what he already did in a inferior fashion.



Given his placement in the grand-scheme of things? Given he was nothing more than a footnote in TCW, and clearly depicted as someone who isn't intended to be one of the most powerful Jedi the galaxy has seen aside from over-the-top feats? The fact, that Vader himself said Kota was below Council members?

Yeah, that. Nice strawman with that Vader point, though.

But SWTOR and OCW are just as if not more ridiculous in terms of straight out feats. Honestly I never understand the logic behind discounting feats described in third person omniscient perspective based on the fact that they're "over the top."

Hence why no one takes OCW seriously either.

You're horrendously out of touch if you think that's the general stance of this forum. Aside from that you conveniently ignored SWTOR also being ridiculous.

I can't recall the last time anyone said Rivi Anu is remotely powerful - besides you.

SWTOR has bounty hunters beating dozens of Jedi and Imperial agents defeating members of the Dark Council. It's on the down-low in terms of Force powers being overblown.

Everyone on this forum puts Anakin Skywalker on a pedestal ( honestly most people probably put him above pre SoR Revan and some even above SoR ) and use feats from the OCW comics to back it up. You are ridiculously out of touch.

It has Jadus holding together capital ships. Malgus shaking transports with his rage. Valkorian being a world destroying entity and busting transports with his lightning. It has guys like Sel Makor and Soa running around. Need I go on?

When you have random footnote Jedi doing things that vastly outstrip showings of which performed by "one of the most powerful Jedi ever", than the source is absolute horseshit.

And yeah, I have my problems with TOR, but at least a number of those characters showings are actually substantiated. Revan ridiculous showing in rag-dolling a strike team? He's ****ing Revan - who gets his dick sucked more than Lexington Steele, it gets a pass.

Rham "Yawn" Kota pulling off shit that outclasses anything an actual celebrated Jedi like Plo Koon? No, pure bullshit with no redeeming factor.

I don't know how Rahm's feat is better then Yoda manipulating transports or Mace slowing down a landslide containing hundreds of tons of debris.

I'm sorry but just because you don't think a feat adds up holistically doesn't allow you to discount it like it never even occurred. It happened, deal with it and fit it into your fanfiction of how you view SW in the way you want. Don't discard it though simply because it didn't line up with your expectations.

I don't get this random footnote argument tbh, when this is Rahm Kota 20 years since PT. Maybe he got like, stronger.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I don't get this random footnote argument tbh, when this is Rahm Kota 20 years since PT. Maybe he got like, stronger.

Any proof of this besides conjecture?

Anyway, doesn't change the fact Vader himself shat on Rahm Kota's ability, so there is that, kek.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Everyone on this forum puts Anakin Skywalker on a pedestal ( honestly most people probably put him above pre SoR Revan and some even above SoR ) and use feats from the OCW comics to back it up. You are ridiculously out of touch.
Everyone puts Skywalker where they do because of what he's shown in LoE and RotS novel - not for OCW. If they do use OCW feats, it's never their first line of arguments. You're just retarded, desperate, and delusional.


Uh, yeah? It consistently shows non-Force sensitives posing a great threat to Force-sensitives. Non-Force sensitives are even sent on missions to confront the most powerful beings in the era and survive the encounter. We see a bounty hunter turning a Jedi battlemaster to shreds and an Imperial agent surviving an encounter with one of the most powerful members of the Dark Council. The feats you listed, laughably enough, aren't even original feats. We've all seen them done before by other Force-users in other eras. Take your L.

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc520/G1d3on91/insider%20106%20starkiller%203_zpsgxtgd26o.png

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc520/G1d3on91/insider%20106%20starkiller%201_zpsgvihqnou.png

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc520/G1d3on91/insider%20106%20starkiller%202_zpsmel6jbc9.png

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc520/G1d3on91/insider%20106%20starkiller%204_zpsihfotqcd.png

Starkiller's power is just fine.

Syndicate's usual bullshit notwithstanding, he's right about one thing: Star Wars Legends is littered with inconsistent feats, it's not just TFU and it's not just OCW. Anyone who pretends otherwise is either a liar or a dumbass.



And OCW has MagnaGuards dueling with Jedi Council members 1v1 and a Forceless cyborg embarrassing five Jedi Masters.

Originally posted by Syndicate
I'm sorry but just because you don't think a feat adds up holistically doesn't allow you to discount it like it never even occurred. It happened, deal with it and fit it into your fanfiction of how you view SW in the way you want. Don't discard it though simply because it didn't line up with your expectations.

As always, a rather shitty rebuttal, but given the source, I'm not in the least bit surprised.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Any proof of this besides conjecture?

Anyway, doesn't change the fact Vader himself shat on Rahm Kota's ability, so there is that, kek. Yeah this little thing called TFU.

Yeah when he was blind and recovering drunk.

Nice double-standard though.

I feel like I could have just quoted your own rebuttal back at you in response. In fact I think I'll do just that.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
As always, a rather shitty rebuttal, but given the source, I'm not in the least bit surprised.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc520/G1d3on91/insider%20106%20starkiller%203_zpsgxtgd26o.png
Is that shit from the non-canon Ultimate edition where Starkiller fights ESB Skywalker?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Is that shit from the non-canon Ultimate edition where Starkiller fights ESB Skywalker?

Nah, it's from Star Wars Insider. Your desperation is palpable.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah this little thing called TFU.

Yeah when he was blind and recovering drunk.

Nice double-standard though.

I think it was made clear from the get-go, that TFU feats are exaggerated as shit, so why you're tying to justify Rahm placement with TFU exaggerated feats is kinda weird.

Kewl. That was the exact state he was in when he was pulling off those elite feats, correct? Legit question 'cause it's been awhile since I've read that shit, and I don't wanna deal with cancer after contracting AIDS from DD's post.

Not seeing a double standard, but whateves love. <3

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, it's from Star Wars Insider. Your desperation is palpable.
What? You've posted better quotes solidifying Starkiller's potential. I just find it funny you're now using this one. What happened to the other one?

What's the Insider's #? It seems to be referring to the Hoth battle between Starkiller and Luke from the Ultimate edition, hence my point.

Originally posted by Syndicate
I feel like I could have just quoted your own rebuttal back at you in response. In fact I think I'll do just that.

Not to be arrogant or anything, but I'm seen as a pretty solid debater everywhere I go, even if I'm not excatly top-tier. You're a walking meme at this point, though kek.

Have a nice day, and don't forget to catch your L at the exit.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What? You've posted better quotes solidifying Starkiller's potential. I just find it funny you're now using this one. What happened to the other one?

What's the Insider's #? It seems to be referring to the Hoth battle between Starkiller and Luke from the Ultimate edition, hence my point.

lol what? These quotes are no better or worse than others on the subject.

The Insider is Star Wars' official magazine. It's part of their Versus series.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Everyone puts Skywalker where they do because of what he's shown in LoE and RotS novel - not for OCW. If they do use OCW feats, it's never their first line of arguments. You're just retarded, desperate, and delusional.


Uh, yeah? It consistently shows non-Force sensitives posing a great threat to Force-sensitives. Non-Force sensitives are even sent on missions to confront the most powerful beings in the era and survive the encounter. We see a bounty hunter turning a Jedi battlemaster to shreds and an Imperial agent surviving an encounter with one of the most powerful members of the Dark Council. The feats you listed, laughably enough, aren't even original feats. We've all seen them done before by other Force-users in other eras. Take your L.

My god. Honestly it's posts like these that really remind me of your age despite your great intelligence Ant. Retarded, desperate and delusional for pointing out that people use OCW feats as an argument for Anakin? Pretty juvenile my friend though of course I can't blame you given your age.

Non force users being able to face force users does not make the feats said force users accomplish any less ridiculous it simply makes SWTOR an even more ridiculous medium for showing that non force users have a chance at beating force users especially force users as powerful as they're depicted in SWTOR. And how does that make the feats accomplished in other eras any more realistic? I'm saying that Star Wars as a whole is pretty exaggerated from what it was first intended to be outside of the OT. Does that mean we ignore the EU? No, we take the feats into account and try to logically understand how they fit into the lore.

Lol. Take my L? Friend there's no win or lose in SW debating. It's an exchange of thoughts and ideas so that we can all hopefully grow more knowledgeable on the subject. Look at what Sinious and I were doing in the Vitiate thread. That's how it should be. Not calling people "retarded" or saying "take your L" as if we were in Middle School.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The Insider is Star Wars' official magazine. It's part of their Versus series.
Oh shit, this is from the versus series? What's the particular # of the Insider? I have them all.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Not to be arrogant or anything, but I'm seen as a pretty solid debater everywhere I go, even if I'm not excatly top-tier. You're a walking meme at this point, though kek.

Have a nice day, and don't forget to catch your L at the exit.

You don't debate friend. You just stand in the corner and wait for people to heap praise on your head which is why you're making one off comments about your superiority rather then actually debating and proving your point.

Ah. I see your maturity levels are at around the same level as a moderately intelligent 14 year olds.

Is that versus series the one that has Qui-Gon and Plo Koon above Yoda?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I think it was made clear from the get-go, that TFU feats are exaggerated as shit, so why you're tying to justify Rahm placement with TFU exaggerated feats is kinda weird.

Kewl. That was the exact state he was in when he was pulling off those elite feats, correct? Legit question 'cause it's been awhile since I've read that shit, and I don't wanna deal with cancer after contracting AIDS from DD's post.

Not seeing a double standard, but whateves love. <3 Uh-huh, in your opinion, my opinion is that Kota just got that powerful, and like, not being mentioned in PT era material doesn't make you weak.

What elite feats? Staggering about and giving Marek an occasionally pointer? He only gets good again in TFU II.

Selectively choosing which feats make sense dear.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Oh shit, this is from the versus series? What's the particular # of the Insider? I have them all.

106.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Is that versus series the one that has Qui-Gon and Plo Koon above Yoda?

Nah, that's a book.

Originally posted by Syndicate
My god. Honestly it's posts like these that really remind me of your age despite your great intelligence Ant. Retarded, desperate and delusional for pointing out that people use OCW feats as an argument for Anakin? Pretty juvenile my friend though of course I can't blame you given your age.

Non force users being able to face force users does not make the feats said force users accomplish any less ridiculous it simply makes SWTOR an even more ridiculous medium for showing that non force users have a chance at Force users especially force users as powerful as they're depicted in SWTOR. And how does that make the feats accomplished in other eras any more realistic? I'm saying that Star Wars as a whole is pretty exaggerated from what it was first intended to be outside of the OT. Does that mean we ignore the EU? No, we take the feats into account and try to logically understand how they fit into the lore.

Lol. Take my L? Friend there's no win or lose in SW debating. It's an exchange of thoughts and ideas so that we can all hopefully grow more knowledgeable on the subject. Look at what Sinious and I were doing in the Vitiate thread. That's how it should be. Not calling people "retarded" or saying "take your L" as if we were in Middle School.
Says the condescending ******* who nearly quit the forums because I said I was disappointing in them, and then had to pamper them up to get them to stay.

What does that even mean? None of SWTOR's feats are more overblown than what's shown in KotOR II. It's consistent with other material and, better yet, shows non-Force sensitives clearly challenging Force-users. With TFU, we have a portrayal of Darth Vader unlike anything we've seen before in his 30 some years of publication, an apprentice who magically has the same potential as Luke Skywalker despite going through training less rigorous than what Maul endured under Palpatine, and feats that no one has come close to replicating. There's no comparison to be made here.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What does that even mean? None of SWTOR's feats are more overblown than what's shown in KotOR II. It's consistent with other material and, better yet, shows non-Force sensitives clearly challenging Force-users. With TFU, we have a portrayal of Darth Vader unlike anything we've seen before in his 30 some years of publication, an apprentice who magically has the same potential as Luke Skywalker despite going through training less rigorous than what Maul endured under Palpatine, and feats that no one has come close to replicating. There's no comparison to be made here.

We see "inconsistency" all the time in Star Wars, even in canon. Examine the Power Creep: compare Vader's performance against Old Ben to his performance against Ahsoka in Rebels. Compare Old Ben to Dooku, twenty years Obi-Wan's senior. Compare Luke Skywalker to Ezra Bridger. Hell, compare Force feats from season 1 & 2 of TCW to seasons 3-6.

The idea that the inconsistency is grounds to disregard it is stupid. Guess we have to disregard anything post-1977.

http://i.imgur.com/pPCzbJm.jpg

Originally posted by The_Tempest
106.
Wait, so most of your Starkiller quotes come from the same source that states Ventress would lose to Brood in a fight?

Alright, that's it, I'm using Bastila Shan being a peer to Dooku and Kenobi for now on if shit like this is going to be used.

Also, the source claims ESB Skywalker (based on the image being used) would defeat Starkiller, so great. Starkiller's total trash.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
We see "inconsistency" all the time in Star Wars, even in canon. Examine the Power Creep: compare Vader's performance against Old Ben to his performance against Ahsoka in Rebels. Compare Old Ben to Dooku, twenty years Obi-Wan's senior. Compare Luke Skywalker to Ezra Bridger. Hell, compare Force feats from season 1 & 2 of TCW to seasons 3-6.
Which comparison did you list was inconsistent?

I've been doing so for a couple pages now or so. Can you read?



Dunno how I ever gain this "elite" reputation if I never actually debate. Paradoxical shit indeed, DD.



Nah. I'm actually one of the more liberal guys on here. I don't treat my opinions, or views as facts. You responded in a somewhat condescending way, while not actually rebutting any of my points - and I replied in kind.



cC33gH6RE5k

Lololololol. You thought i was going to quit SW debating a hobby I've been taking part in for more then half of your lifetime because you were disappointed in me?! xD I'm sorry if you took that seriously and it caused you stress Ant but I thought it was pretty clear I was joking. You can ask Skillz in your next pow wow we had a long discussion about it over Skype.

So if you don't think beings draining entire planets is exaggerated then why do you have a problem with TFU or OCW?

Non force users showing capabilities that no character up until Luke Skywalker or DE Sidious were able to match.

What did Darth Vader do in TFU that was outside of capabilities he'd shown in other mediums?

You're born with potential, it doesn't come about through training. I shouldn't have to tell the Revan fanboy who touts his character as "The Heart of the Force" this.

Also how the heck do you know that Galen's training was less vigorous then Maul's?

Valkorian, Luke, Yoda, Rivu Ani, Vader, Nihilus, Jadus, Malgus, Revan, Mace, Anakin and plenty of others have accomplished similar or far greater feats so I don't know what you're referring to. Also since as you mentioned Galen was supposed to have Luke level potential why wouldn't the feats he accomplished make sense in that context?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
We see "inconsistency" all the time in Star Wars, even in canon. Examine the Power Creep: compare Vader's performance against Old Ben to his performance against Ahsoka in Rebels. Compare Old Ben to Dooku, twenty years Obi-Wan's senior. Compare Luke Skywalker to Ezra Bridger. Hell, compare Force feats from season 1 & 2 of TCW to seasons 3-6.

The idea that the inconsistency is grounds to disregard it is stupid. Guess we have to disregard anything post-1977.



My god you've become senile.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
cC33gH6RE5k
Damn, housed.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I've been doing so for a couple pages now or so. Can you read?



Dunno how I ever gain this "elite" reputation if I never actually debate. Paradoxical shit indeed, DD.



Nah. I'm actually one of the more liberal guys on here. I don't treat my opinions, or views as facts. You responded in a somewhat condescending way, while not actually rebutting any of my points - and I replied in kind.



cC33gH6RE5k

Pretty well most of the time. I'm having difficulties conceiving of the notion that what you've been doing for these last few pages has been "debate."

It's pretty simple really. You go into a thread, agree with what the majority says and do this often for a long period of time then BAM you have your reputation.

When you're discounting feats simply because you think they're exaggerated in a franchise which is filled with contradictions and exaggerated feats it's a little frustrating admittedly. Sorry if I seemed a little pompous to you in my response. I can see why you would have thought that.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
My god you've become senile. "Become?"

Originally posted by Syndicate
Pretty well most of the time. I'm having difficulties conceiving of the notion that what you've been doing for these last few pages has been "debate."

It's pretty simple really. You go into a thread, agree with what the majority says and do this often for a long period of time then BAM you have your reputation.

When you're discounting feats simply because you think they're exaggerated in a franchise which is filled with contradictions and exaggerated feats it's a little frustrating admittedly. Sorry if I seemed a little pompous to you in my response. I can see why you would have thought that.
DD trying to claim the maturity high ground but can't seem to mask the saltiness a mile away. mmm

Well DC go in for the kill - or will he miss the show and let DD return a blow? Stay tuned, folks.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Damn, housed.

Ant this is where your inexperience with the world doesn't do you any favors. Saying "Oh wow you just got him real good." To a person arguing with someone who was just seen arguing with you doesn't add credence to the former's post. This is especially so when the latter doing this hasn't responded to the person in question's rebuttal which you yourself have not. I would have though you'd know this as it's a common tactic used in forums but apparently not.

Cringe.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Wait, so most of your Starkiller quotes come from the same source that states Ventress would lose to Brood in a fight?

Yep. And it says she'd lose due to overconfidence. I also draw evidence from sources that have Luke Skywalker nearly dying to Lumiya, that have Vitiate dying against an exhausted Jedi on a dark side nexus, that have Han Solo shooting Palpatine in the back, etc. and so forth. So I'm not sure what bearing that has on anything.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Alright, that's it, I'm using Bastila Shan being a peer to Dooku and Kenobi for now on if shit like this is going to be used.

You do use quotes like that lol.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Also, the source claims ESB Skywalker (based on the image being used) would defeat Starkiller, so great. Starkiller's total trash.

The source never actually claims which iteration of Skywalker is at play here. But given that Skywalker from the original trilogy is capable beating Vader, I wouldn't be surprised.



Ezra visually outperforms Luke, Dooku visually outperforms Old Ben, and Rebels!Vader visually outperforms Vader from A New Hope. Dooku is cowed by pirates in season 1, whereas season 3 Savage obliterates battle droids, super battle droids, and droidekas in a similar situation. There's a blatantly obvious power creep at work throughout canon. We see general performance increase from OT to PT, then from PT to TCW, then again within TCW itself.

But I know you're aware of that.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
DD trying to claim the maturity high ground but can't seem to mask the saltiness a mile away. mmm

Well DC go in for the kill - or will he miss the show and let DD return a blow? Stay tuned, folks.

Honestly I should expect it from you guys by now but I guess my stubborn nature just can't accept how ignorant some people can be.

Lol. Go in for the kill? Like you're doing I suppose.

Oh man please don't end my career Ant. I'm real sorry for what I said to you. You're just too smart for me. D:

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yep. And it says she'd lose due to overconfidence. I also draw evidence from sources that have Luke Skywalker nearly dying to Lumiya, that have Vitiate dying against an exhausted Jedi on a dark side nexus, that have Han Solo shooting Palpatine in the back, etc. and so forth. So I'm not sure what bearing that has on anything.



You do use quotes like that lol.



The source never actually claims which iteration of Skywalker is at play here. But given that Skywalker from the original trilogy is capable beating Vader, I wouldn't be surprised.



Ezra visually outperforms Luke, Dooku visually outperforms Old Ben, and Rebels!Vader visually outperforms Vader from A New Hope. Dooku is cowed by pirates in season 1, whereas season 3 Savage obliterates battle droids, super battle droids, and droidekas in a similar situation. There's a blatantly obvious power creep at work throughout canon. We see general performance increase from OT to PT, then from PT to TCW, then again within TCW itself.

But I know you're aware of that.


Originally posted by Nephthys
"Become?"

You're unusually transfixed with me, Ziggy. I don't know if I should be flattered or disgusted that I'm the most powerful force in your life. mmm

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
My god you've become senile.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm the most powerful force in your life. mmm

Diet-lightsnake.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Diet-lightsnake.

You not only covet my attention on the reg., you now regurgitate my sobriquets for you. Truly I command your life. excellent

Lightsnake-lite ?

Lite-snake would be wittier.

This must not be one of those times, then.



Just because they don't aligned with your perceived notion of Galen and the rest of the shit TFU crew - that doesn't mean it's not debating.

Next.



Except, anyone who's bother reading through my history would know this isn't the case, lal. I've always been now to have radical idea's the doesn't match with the majority.



I'm only echoing with the writers of the series themselves said in regards to TFU. Furthermore, I don't use feats as the end-all-be-all like you do, so I have no problem getting around the contradiction and such, usually.

DC, what say you about non-TFU outliers such as SWTOR, OCW, etc.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I'm only echoing with the writers of the series themselves said in regards to TFU. Furthermore, I don't use feats as the end-all-be-all like you do, so I have no problem getting around the contradiction and such, usually.

lmao.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
This must not be one of those times, then.



Just because they don't aligned with your perceived notion of Galen and the rest of the shit TFU crew - that doesn't mean it's not debating.

Next.



Except, anyone who's bother reading through my history would know this isn't the case, lal. I've always been now to have radical idea's the doesn't match with the majority.



I'm only echoing with the writers of the series themselves said in regards to TFU. Furthermore, I don't use feats as the end-all-be-all like you do, so I have no problem getting around the contradiction and such, usually.

Must be.

Perhaps that was a little harsh. Though to be fair you were the one quoting the TFU crew and then not taking into account that as well as saying the feats were over the top ( as in spectacular ) that they also meant for Galen to have Luke Skywalker's potential.

Interesting. Such as?

Then I guess it's more of a fundamental difference in how we view Star Wars power scaling then anything else. Fair enough.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
DC, what say you about non-TFU outliers such as SWTOR, OCW, etc.
Honestly, I treat them the say way I do TFU.

Only thing is, most of those characters have appeared in several other novel/source books/comics so "scaling down" to properly ranking them while shouldn't be all that hard.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Honestly, I treat them the say way I do TFU.

Only thing is, most of those characters have appeared in several other novel/source books/comics so "scaling down" to properly ranking them while shouldn't be all that hard.

I am well pleased. Carry on.

Originally posted by Selenial
lmao.

What's so funny....? mmm

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I am well pleased. Carry on.






Originally posted by Syndicate
Perhaps that was a little harsh. Though to be fair you were the one quoting the TFU crew and then not taking into account that as well as saying the feats were over the top ( as in spectacular ) that they also meant for Galen to have Luke Skywalker's potential.

I'm pretty sure I already acknowledged Galen's Marek's greatness in my post to Eli, or whatever his name is.




I'm pretty sure many people don't have Vader on a even playing field with Caedus, or rank Kyp as high as I do...



I use the 33/33/33 theory. Meaning 33 percent feats, 33% accolades, and 33% hype/universe placement, and 1% my personal opinion in the matter when ranking a character. If feats were all that matter a case could be made Kyp is > Yoda. But accolades says Yoda is his superior, and his placement in the Universe tells me the Grandmaster of the "Golden age" of the Jedi Order, and someone as revered as him - wouldn't be below a relatively insignificant Jedi from a later era.

Eli ranks Kyp above Vader and I myself put Vader above Caedus.

I don't put as much stock in the dovan basil feat as you and Eli admittedly. :P