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1. Sabers

2. Force

3. All-Out


I think Scourge takes it with mid-difficulty.

We literally just had this: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t627782.html

They both suck

Originally posted by carthage
They both suck

But Scourge less so.

Scourge has done absolutely nothing to prove he's better than Surik, infact the exact opposite is true. TOR wanking is only good when it makes sense Skillz.

Hey everyone, it's now wank to consider the 300 year old Emperor's Wrath who makes Dark Councillors shit themselves at the mere mention of his name and eats them for breakfast, to be above someone who is treated with impunity by one. My bad!

Name one of those Dark Councillors with anything on Darth Nyriss and at the same time don't go ignoring Scourge stating that all the following Councillors were essentially pathetic.

Then tell me why losing his greatest gift and killing a thousand unknown Sith and Jedi somehow elevates him so far beyond his novel incarnation that he suddenly stomps someone like Surik.

But obviously I know your only answer is going to come from a mindset that Kotor II characters are shit. I haven't forgetten.

Well I mean, the (former) Dark Councillor who stalemated Tol Braga (the guy who gave end Act 3 HoT and his companion a legitimate fight and was considered alongside the HoT and the rest of the Act 2 strike team as the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy,) considered himself mincemeat to the likes of Scourge, who casually walked through the Republic Base on Quesh fully prepared to slaughter Sajar and the HoT. Then there's him actually "stalemating" the HoT/his companion and the Hero accepting Scourge's musing that he could have slaughtered him on Quesh to the point of outright trusting him, (I.e. Shit, I think I can trust this guy, after all if he wanted me dead, he would have killed me on Quesh).

I mean geez, it's not just killing a thousand Sith and 100 Jedi that had grown too powerful for The Emperor's liking, it's the fact that he had his battle prowess amped by Vitiate and 300 years to reach his immense potential and hone his skills.

Yes, yes, he's arrived on Act II Hero of Tython's level, that is great and all, but hardly unprecedented given the Hero of Tython was given hard fights by the likes of Darth Angral.

He was given immortality in exchange for losing his emotions to total numbness and thus paying the price of his most specisl gift, as Nyriss notes, which is the reason for his immense potential.

Obviously killing over three serious opponents per year is great and all, but hardly the kind of experience that's turning him into a Nyriss killer.

Lord Scourge obviously improved after the novel, but the amount to which is largely unquantifiable and I can't see a legitimate reason he's going well beyond wanting to serve Revan and the Exile, by his own admission, to the point of easily defeating a full strength Meetra.

Sorry, but being given a hard fight by Angral...just makes Angral a beast, and given that he was offered a spot on the Dark Council and was valued by Vitiate, I'm not surprised. The Hero has been stated numerous times as, even at the end of Act 1/start of Act 2, the most powerful Jedi in the order, more so than Satele Shan and the Barsen'thor, (both of whom are above Meetra). Yet Scourge shits on Quesh!HoT.

Ok, the gorging shit is pointless for 2 reasons:

1. Revan senses Scourge has immense potential
2. TOR doesn't really care. Like, for Gods' sakes, TOR shits on the Revan Novel's story. In the very convo he states that'd he'd have "served Revan and Meetra," he says that he was working in the shadows to support them, and that he was, "their eyes and ears in the Sith Academy."

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Well I mean, the (former) Dark Councillor who stalemated Tol Braga (the guy who gave end Act 3 HoT and his companion a legitimate fight and was considered alongside the HoT and the rest of the Act 2 strike team as the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy,) considered himself mincemeat to the likes of Scourge, who casually walked through the Republic Base on Quesh fully prepared to slaughter Sajar and the HoT. Then there's him actually "stalemating" the HoT/his companion and the Hero accepting Scourge's musing that he could have slaughtered him on Quesh to the point of outright trusting him, (I.e. Shit, I think I can trust this guy, after all if he wanted me dead, he would have killed me on Quesh).

I mean geez, it's not just killing a thousand Sith and 100 Jedi that had grown too powerful for The Emperor's liking, it's the fact that he had his battle prowess amped by Vitiate and 300 years to reach his immense potential and hone his skills.

The outcome of this fight is also compounded by the fact that TOR gives as much of a **** about the Novel as Karpyshyn does about KOTOR 2.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Sorry, but being given a hard fight by Angral...just makes Angral a beast, and given that he was offered a spot on the Dark Council and was valued by Vitiate, I'm not surprised. The Hero has been stated numerous times as, even at the end of Act 1/start of Act 2, the most powerful Jedi in the order, more so than Satele Shan and the Barsen'thor, (both of whom are above Meetra). Yet Scourge shits on Quesh!HoT.

Ok, the gorging shit is pointless for 2 reasons:

1. Revan senses Scourge has immense potential
2. TOR doesn't really care. Like, for Gods' sakes, TOR shits on the Revan Novel's story. In the very convo he states that'd he'd have "served Revan and Meetra," he says that he was working in the shadows to support them, and that he was, "their eyes and ears in the Sith Academy."

The Barsen'thor and Hero of Tython obviously become Meetra's superiors, they're essentially the two greatest Jedi ever by Act III. You don't need to tell me the obvious, ....but Satele Shan?

Regardless this great leap in potential you are suggesting just isn't evidenced in TOR, he's obviously gotten better than the days of struggling with Xedrix but to the point of easily beating a full strength Surik on neutral ground? That's a gross overestimate.

I'm saying end of Act 1 'Thor > Meetra. And end of Act 1 HoT > 'Thor (and Meetra,) yet the Hero still isn't Scourge level at that point. And yes, Satele Shan > Meetra.

Ok.

Meetra is Koon level.

Damn, Skillz sure convinced me. Scourge wins.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Meetra is Koon level.

Disgusting.

Too high or low IYO?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Meetra is Koon level.

Lower imo, but yeah that sounds about right

Meetra is below Koon. Unless you legit think Nyriss is like a Dooku + level swordsman.

Dooku level probs.

I dunno. Feels kinda gross. mmm

Meetra Koon level feels gross too.

But knowing you, it's probably the kind of gross that I'm okay with.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Meetra is below Koon. Unless you legit think Nyriss is like a Dooku + level swordsman.
Nyriss is just so much more powerful, any skill advantage would be moot.

Disgusting as usual.

He's prolly right, though.

Tbh I really respect Nyriss tho. She's Dooku level in an overall sense, imho.

Her lightning feats are a magnitude higher than Dooku's. Her speed is such that Lord Scourge was actually barely capable of parrying her attacks, and he himself can move as a blur, blindingly fast to droid photoreceptors and move faster than an autotargeting blaster cannon can track.

Dooku tier seems like a very conservative estimate.

Dooku killing Ventress with Lightning whilst mortally wounded is incredibly impressive and actually better than Nyriss' feats. The only one she has that is better is the one that would've turned Meetra and Scourge into ash, but that was with a free charge-up on a potent DS nexus, not to mention that she wasn't wounded in the slightest.

Ventress just sacrificed herself, it's impressive sure but ashing herself or being able to do the same to Scourge and Meetra, that is just a magnitude higher. Her charring two armoured guards almost before they could scream rivals what ROT Bane did to two other guards, only slightly quicker.

Dooku had just collapsed in pain over a blaster bolt shot. You could argue he was building up power in secret (that'd just be horrible writing with the other two not noticing) but it's still not the same sort of charging up as Nyriss, who was gathering visible, palpable energy, and on a DS nexus. Once again, Nyriss was fresh while Dooku was on the ground in pain from a blaster wound.

The circumstances are immeasurably more favorable for Nyriss, so of course she'll have the better feat. Ignore the circumstances, and Dooku's better, IMO.

The entire novel was badly written tbh.

I'll give you Dooku was wounded, but honestly that pain probably enhances the hatred that he fuels his lightning with, if I'm honest. Being able to casually hurl Bane tier lightning is still incredibly impressive if I'm honest.

It was on a nexus

And of course the novel was badly written. It's just that that would be another black mark on its already trash reputation.

That's true, but we have no idea how much of an effect that has on lightning she wasn't charging. I'll give you her charged lightning though as she did seem to be gathering external energies.

Pretty sure Nyriss was just building up the energy from within herself to annihilate Scourge and Meetra. At least, it's not remotely implied she's tapping into the environment in a way that, say, Zannah did with Ambria. And instantly ashing herself/Meetra/Scourge with the FLS is indeed an order of magnitude beyond Dooku, Kek.

What about her dueling skill relative to Dooku, tho?

Her dueling skill seems to be beyond Scourge but not Meetra, it's her physicals that are dominating. So I'd absolutely give it to Dooku in skill. She's a pretty obvious Juyo combatant.

Meetras skill feats are unimpressive as ****, and Nyriss stomping someone who hasn't even beaten anyone notable apart from Sion doesn't put her on Dooku's tier of skill. Kas'im could probably take Meetra in a fight

Meetra taking on an entire academy of sith solo > Kas'im

Any semi notable Jedi can kill fodder Sith en masse, Zallow, Ben Skywalker, Corran Horn, Raskta Lsu all killed scores of Sith. What exactly has Meetra done that makes beating her noteworthy? Sion, Traya, literally have nothing going on for them in terms of skill feats

I don't believe Nyriss beating Scourge and Meetra is a good feat for her, I believe its a bad showing for Meetra and Scourge as a team.

Like Luke getting captured by X1 or getting TK'ed by Desann.

Lol.

Kreia was obviously Arren Kae, which Avellone all but confirmed, making her an excellent Jedi warrior over a decade before her prime, near on par with Yusanis.

Sion slaughtered Jedi for decades as a Sith Marauder from the onset of the Exar Kun War, he's actually implied to be one of the students Exar Kun corrupts with a Sith spirit.

Those 'fodder' Sith were the elite remnants of Darth Revan's Sith Assassin sect, whom were all already expert Revanchists. Many of them were Bladeborn and even Blademasters, as in those who earnt Sith Tremor Swords by killing no less than ten Jedi. Over-all the Revan novel states that the Sith Triumvirate were responsible of killing tens of thousands of Jedi, veterans of the Jedi Civil War.

Meetra Surik is an incredibly skilled Jedi guardian, her lightsaber prowess defeated Master Atris, a superior of the famed lightsaber instructor Kavar who was considered the face of the Jedi Guardians. Of which there were many expert duelists.

Then Atris learnt ancient Sith combat techniques from dozens of Sith holocrons, the same Sith who Kreia infers makes modern day Jedi appear like children. Not unlike Exar Kun accrediting his thrashing of Vodo to a 'correct' use of Sith teachings.

Keep up with those brain farts you call arguments Carthage.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Lol.

Kreia was obviously Arren Kae, which Avellone all but confirmed, making her an excellent Jedi warrior over a decade before her prime, near on par with Yusanis.

Sion slaughtered Jedi for decades as a Sith Marauder from the onset of the Exar Kun War, he's actually implied to be one of the students Exar Kun corrupts with a Sith spirit.

Those 'fodder' Sith were the elite remnants of Darth Revan's Sith Assassin sect, whom were all already expert Revanchists. Many of them were Bladeborn and even Blademasters, as in those who earnt Sith Tremor Swords by killing no less than ten Jedi. Over-all the Revan novel states that the Sith Triumvirate were responsible of killing tens of thousands of Jedi, veterans of the Jedi Civil War.

Meetra Surik is an incredibly skilled Jedi guardian, her lightsaber prowess defeated Master Atris, a superior of the famed lightsaber instructor Kavar who was considered the face of the Jedi Guardians. Of which there were many expert duelists.

Then Atris learnt ancient Sith combat techniques from dozens of Sith holocrons, the same Sith who Kreia infers makes modern day Jedi appear like children. Not unlike Exar Kun accrediting his thrashing of Vodo to a 'correct' use of Sith teachings.

Keep up with those brain farts you call arguments Carthage. Nihilus was a bigger threat then Sion, Traya, and Atris combined.

Thats her best showing to date.

Beating Traya, and Traya force-stomping 3 near-featless Jedi Masters are both not that impressive.

Nihilus was weakened, though sources have also attributed the Exile and Visas Marr's combined might as the source of his downfall. What that has to do with lightsaber skill though is beyond me.

If you didn't listen in the last thread, you're going to be just as blatantly ignorant in this one. Vrook Lamar, Kavar and Zez-Kai Ell are far from featless, don't give Selenial or Beni a reason to humiliate you too.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nihilus was weakened, though sources have also attributed the Exile and Visas Marr's combined might as the source of his downfall. What that has to do with lightsaber skill though is beyond me.

If you didn't listen in the last thread, you're going to be just as blatantly ignorant in this one. Vrook Lamar, Kavar and Zez-Kai Ell are far from featless, don't give Selenial or Beni a reason to humiliate you too. Oh, I just looked at their respect thread, and being "one of the most powerful Jedi Masters" of their time isn't impressive when there aren't that many powerful Jedi Masters to begin with.

Nothing they have done is impressive enough to consider them good.

Dark side choices are non-canon, so they don't count.

It doesn'tmatter if they're non-canon when absolutely nothing suggests they are for some reason more powerful in the dark side fights than they are otherwise. Look up common sense.

Ancientpower posts a wall of text and doesn't show anything that actually disproves my statement of Meetra beating no one with any feats of note

You're a moron if you think Atris isn't notable.

Nowhere near as skilled as Nyriss who stomped Meetra with ease.

Atris the librarian holy shit what a monstrous opponent?!

Atris who is the most knowledgeable master of the bunch, with a mastery of lightsaber combat on the highest tiers combined with Sith combat techniques from dozens of ancient Sith holocrons.

She's clearly quite incredible given she can solidly defeat Brianna who speedblitzed her five fellow Handmaidens, who all have high tier Echani Battle Precognition.

Nyriss didn't stomp Meetra, she overmatched her on a nexus that's prevented Meetra's highest abilities with augmentation. Get your facts straight, moron.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Pretty sure Nyriss was just building up the energy from within herself to annihilate Scourge and Meetra. At least, it's not remotely implied she's tapping into the environment in a way that, say, Zannah did with Ambria. And instantly ashing herself/Meetra/Scourge with the FLS is indeed an order of magnitude beyond Dooku, Kek.



The text draws parallels with what Xedrix did by pooling all his strength into a single attack. Nyriss just amped herself up by gathering as much of her power as she needed.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Meetra taking on an entire academy of sith solo > Kas'im

TBF, PoD makes it fairly apparent that Kas'im could have solo'd the Korriban academy if he wanted to in my opinion.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Beating Traya, and Traya force-stomping 3 near-featless Jedi Masters are both not that impressive.

C'mon man, we just went over this. Go read Beni's post in the Ahsoka thread and come back here.

Except the Korriban Academy <<<< the Malachor Academy.

If you say so. The fact that Kas'im was surprised he didn't instantly stomp Bane makes me think he could slaughter his way through Malachor though.

You're ignoring the fact Kas'im would have an amp even if he could do the same.

I considered it as if he were in the same circumstances as the Exile.