illuminati vs annihilators vs ultimates

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leonidas
battle of the uber teams.

illuminati--ironman (assume peak armor abilities), black bolt, xavier, strange, reed

vs

annihilators--quasar, surfer, ronan, bill, gladiator

vs

ultimates--blue marvel, spectrum (monica), cap marvel (carol), panther, ms. america

which team walks away?

StiltmanFTW
Xavier puts them all to sleep.

biscuits

Insane Titan
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Xavier puts them all to sleep.

biscuits lol I remember that line, he even said Galactus.

riv6672
Good thread idea, but if the initial response is going to set the tone, not really worth putting effort into reasoning behind my choice, so, just going with Ultimates FTW.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Insane Titan
lol I remember that line, he even said Galactus.

He did have a great feat in AvX, but it's hilarious that Jessica Spider Woman with her SHIELD psi-shields was the one that could resist his TP attack...

Insane Titan
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He did have a great feat in AvX, but it's hilarious that Jessica Spider Woman with her SHIELD psi-shields was the one that could resist his TP attack... during the first secret wars era he had never done anything to suggest he could put all of them to sleep.

Didn't Bendis wrote that illuminati issue?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Insane Titan
during the first secret wars era he had never done anything to suggest he could put all of them to sleep.

Didn't Bendis wrote that illuminati issue?

I realize that. He had major trouble with Enchantress alone, when she detected him and blocked with ease.

I believe so. Same as that AvX tie-in...

Digi
The Annihilators have the most raw power by a fairly wide margin, imo. But Strange and Xavier represent interesting challenges for the other teams. Others are being sarcastic, but not everyone on these rosters has psi defenses. Depending on how effective they can be, Illuminati could win.

Blue Area Vet
Wow. Slight edge to Ultimates just because of what they have been able to accomplish. CM ability to power up to Binary levels by taking energy blast from enemies or teamates (has happened twice in first 8 issues) Monica's ability NOT to be hit and BM raw strength and antimatter power and MAC's power, savagery and ability to open interdimensional portals combined with near flawless teamwork is a lot. BP is very good at just staying alive. In situations like this, he always says "You don't have to worry about me" and I believe him. The underdogs win.

One_Angry_Scot
One problem with Carol could be that there is the possibility she could get overloaded like Collective did to her.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
One problem with Carol could be that there is the possibility she could get overloaded like Collective did to her.


I'd say the chances of that are very slight. She has clearly been inviting the chance to go Binary. She was not concerned about jumping into Thanos gun (mad Thanos with a gun!) blast and likely didn't know the exact intensity of the blast.

Decter
annihilators

zopzop
Originally posted by Decter
annihilators
Yup.

The Ultimates are the weakest team here and the only real threats to the Annihilators from the Illuminati are Strange and Prof X. Bill and Surfer counter Strange and Prof X, then the rest of the team mops up.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by zopzop
Yup.

The Ultimates are the weakest team here and the only real threats to the Annihilators from the Illuminati are Strange and Prof X. Bill and Surfer counter Strange and Prof X, then the rest of the team mops up.

Blue Marvel is at worst the second biggest threat among all teams. Also, the Illuminati is probably the least durable of three teams. Monica can get to Prof X before anyone on his team can react.

Decter
Blue marvel is a huge threat

But the annihilators have the most power overall as a team. And surfer is enough to give him a run for his money, and has the power and abilities to beat him 1v1 in a good fight

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by Decter
Blue marvel is a huge threat

But the annihilators have the most power overall as a team. And surfer is enough to give him a run for his money, and has the power and abilities to beat him 1v1 in a good fight

Totally agree there, but the Ults have proven to be super tactical. Really, really tactical.

zopzop
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Blue Marvel is at worst the second biggest threat among all teams.
Nope.

That would be BRB or Quasar. Quasar's 'highs' sh|t all over most anyone on any of the teams. I'm talking blocking an attack from Thanos wielding the Infinity Gauntlet, creating a dome so powerful a small army of super humans couldn't break (Hulk, Thing, Wonderman, and more were included in that team), bringing a Rogue Watcher to his knees before Stranger jumped in and interrupted the fight, holding off Galactus by himself for a few while the FF did their thing, creating a solar flare that dwarfed an entire planet, etc...

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by zopzop
Nope.

That would be BRB or Quasar. Quasar's 'highs' sh|t all over most anyone on any of the teams. I'm talking blocking an attack from Thanos wielding the Infinity Gauntlet, creating a dome so powerful a small army of super humans couldn't break (Hulk, Thing, Wonderman, and more were included in that team), bringing a Rogue Watcher to his knees before Stranger jumped in and interrupted the fight, holding off Galactus by himself for a few while the FF did their thing, creating a solar flare that dwarfed an entire planet, etc...



That would be his his, he has plenty lows, so I disagree. Annihilus drained/ate him like a pack of crackers the give you with soup. BM is no less than the second biggest threat.

Delta1938
Originally posted by leonidas
-ironman (assume peak armor abilities)

Doesn't his current armor allow him to bring in like all his previous armors to fight?

zopzop
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
That would be his his, he has plenty lows, so I disagree. Annihilus drained/ate him like a pack of crackers the give you with soup. BM is no less than the second biggest threat.
Don't kid yourself, Annihilus from that arc would have wrecked BM just as easily. Even Nova Prime had to run away.

Quasar would literally drink Monica and use her to amp his energy attacks and wipe out the majority of Team Ultimates.

Hell, Quasar has even bubbled up Binary form Ms. Marvel before and she was helpless to break free!
http://s33.postimg.org/dkzqh1u3v/4990878_quasar_33_017.jpg
whoopsie!

Team Annihilators stomp.

leonidas
Originally posted by zopzop
Nope.

That would be BRB or Quasar. Quasar's 'highs' sh|t all over most anyone on any of the teams. I'm talking blocking an attack from Thanos wielding the Infinity Gauntlet, creating a dome so powerful a small army of super humans couldn't break (Hulk, Thing, Wonderman, and more were included in that team), bringing a Rogue Watcher to his knees before Stranger jumped in and interrupted the fight, holding off Galactus by himself for a few while the FF did their thing, creating a solar flare that dwarfed an entire planet, etc...

thumb up

and classic quasar has precious few low showings, though of course everyone has a couple.... it's part of the reason that annihilus showing was such a load of sh!t imo (on MULTIPLE occasions they have been said to be a source of infinite power, so no way anni should have been able to drain him like he did--idiotic, but they were trying to give nova his moment....). the q-bands seem to be getting their proper due again in marvel though. can't say i'm crazy about the choice of the new quasar though, but maybe i'll be surprised.

@delta--i've not seen him bring in older models in recent avengers i don't think. given the number of avengers books and IM appearances, i can be forgetting though or may have simply missed it.....

Blue Area Vet
This is one very interesting. In the case of the U's vs. A's, it's all about who can force favorable match ups. The A's have the collective power advantage while the U's have the tactical advantage which could result in them getting the match ups they need. Gladiator and Bill are hot heads.

Ronan is > Black Panther, but Panther will work him and stay alive.
Monica has the ad over Gladiator due to radiation and intangibility in light form.
Quasar doesn't match up well against Monica or Carol.
Bill could be deadly to Monica due to Stormbreaker.
Blue Marvel could be one of the few characters in comics that has an advantage over Silver Surfer as Antimatter is not part of the electromagnetic spectrum.
MAC could hold her own against Gladiator or Bill as could Binary.
Surfer couldnt haphazardly blast CM.
Finally, Surfer could conceivably gain control over Monica, although this is in theory.


I'm betting that the Ults strategy would involve removing Gladiator much like Thanos did.

zopzop
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet

Quasar doesn't match up well against Monica or Carol.
BAV, this is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what would happen. He's already one shot bubbled up Binary and she couldn't escape. His Quantum Bands would OWN Monica. They give him complete mastery over energy in the EM spectrum. Quasar would solo Monica AND Binary.

leonidas
preach brother! lol

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by zopzop
BAV, this is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what would happen. He's already one shot bubbled up Binary and she couldn't escape. His Quantum Bands would OWN Monica. They give him complete mastery over energy in the EM spectrum. Quasar would solo Monica AND Binary.


Scans?

zopzop
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Scans?
Originally posted by zopzop
Don't kid yourself, Annihilus from that arc would have wrecked BM just as easily. Even Nova Prime had to run away.

Quasar would literally drink Monica and use her to amp his energy attacks and wipe out the majority of Team Ultimates.

Hell, Quasar has even bubbled up Binary form Ms. Marvel before and she was helpless to break free!
http://s33.postimg.org/dkzqh1u3v/4990878_quasar_33_017.jpg
whoopsie!

Team Annihilators stomp.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by zopzop



I saw him contain her to force her to talk. Where is the "one shot?" And what came next in the sequence? Looks like someone is about to punch him in the face. Anyway, see nothing to back up your claim. Containing is not soloing. Why couldn't Binary simply absorb the energy construct? How long could he hold her?

zopzop
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I saw him contain her to force her to talk. Where is the "one shot?" And what came next in the sequence? Looks like someone is about to punch him in the face. Anyway, see nothing to back up your claim. Containing is not soloing. Why couldn't Binary simply absorb the energy construct? How long could he hold her?
http://s33.postimg.org/h5enqywff/n1ue_ROD.jpg
"You couldn't even break out of one of my Quantum bubbles".

Next question?

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by zopzop
http://s33.postimg.org/h5enqywff/n1ue_ROD.jpg
"You couldn't even break out of one of my Quantum bubbles".

Next question?

Can you please show the next sequence rather than skipping around? Obviously she did something very impressive. So perhaps he can successfully contain her, doesn't mean she can't come up with a counter in a future encounter. Doesn't make sense that he could do that to her, either.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Delta1938
Doesn't his current armor allow him to bring in like all his previous armors to fight?

Kinda-sorta what it looked like...

Reminds me a bit of that IM S2 armor from the 90s cartoon.

zopzop
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Can you please show the next sequence rather than skipping around?
You saw all you needed to see. He bubbled her up and she couldn't break out. He even says "my Quantum Bands prevented you from making a vortex hole like you did inside the Sun". End of story.


Yes, she opened up a "white hole" in the Sun that gobbled up all the anti-matter from the Shi'ar doomsday weapon. Still doesn't change the fact that she couldn't break out of Quasar's Quantum Bubble.


Doesn't have to make sense. It's comics.

leonidas
lol why anyone bothers is an utter mystery to me.... laughing out loud

StiltmanFTW
Seriously now though, what characters have a good chance at resisting (or perhaps even no-selling) Xavier's TP here?

zopzop
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Seriously now though, what characters have a good chance at resisting (or perhaps even no-selling) Xavier's TP here?
Uhm, Surfer?

StiltmanFTW
Ah, Glass Jaw Surfer.

Tony and Bolt would DP him harder than Asa Akira gets on her hardest work day.

zopzop
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Ah, Glass Jaw Surfer.

Tony and Bolt would DP him harder than Asa Akira gets on her hardest work day.
One word : Quasar.
http://s33.postimg.org/fuepnv0rv/4835352_braintingle.jpg
I have more examples if you need them.

StiltmanFTW
Mind-messer?

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
Uhm, Surfer?
Charles would mindrape Surfer like nothing.

zopzop
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Mind-messer?
Yeah, Quasar is immune to mind-phuckery thanks to the Q-bands.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Charles would mindrape Surfer like nothing.
Hush you!

StiltmanFTW
Yeah, I got that much from the scan, but was that mindmesser Quasar's referencing some kind of a device or a villain or...?

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah, Quasar is immune to mind-phuckery thanks to the Q-bands.

Hush you!
Dr. Strange knocks him out with a simple spell as he has no chance against magic.

Yeah, Surfer would get mindraped against Charles.

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
Dr. Strange knocks him out with a simple spell as he has no chance against magic.


BRB is there for Strange.

zopzop
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah, I got that much from the scan, but was that mindmesser Quasar's referencing some kind of a device or a villain or...?
Villain. Funny thing is, that villain was revealed to be Overmind. A guy that was actually BEATING the Stranger in a TP fight till he got distracted by a group of Watchers!
http://s33.postimg.org/rzf5jldbf/4254604_overmind.jpg

Quasar ftw!

Fiendish
Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah, Quasar is immune to mind-phuckery thanks to the Q-bands.

Depends on if the writer remembers Quasar has the TP jammer.

He didn't seem to have it at all in Starmasters when Tana Nile searched through his mind like a rolodex.

Yet later in Avengers Infinity, it's specifically mentioned and Moondragon was helpless against it.

http://i.imgur.com/ItSbSbP.jpg

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
BRB is there for Strange.
Black Bolt is there for BRB.

StiltmanFTW
Iron Man, too.

From the op - "peak armor abilities".

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by zopzop
Villain. Funny thing is, that villain was revealed to be Overmind. A guy that was actually BEATING the Stranger in a TP fight till he got distracted by a group of Watchers!
http://s33.postimg.org/rzf5jldbf/4254604_overmind.jpg

Quasar ftw!

Thanks. If Stranger deserves his place in the cosmic hierarchy, then that was indeed helluva feat.

Insane Titan
Cosmo has easily mind phucked a wearer of the quantum bands before, so they aren't totally mind attack proof.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by abhilegend
Dr. Strange knocks him out with a simple spell as he has no chance against magic.

Yeah, Surfer would get mindraped against Charles.


Right, like God Cable did. embarrasment

All three would turn Superman's mind to baby food.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by Fiendish
Depends on if the writer remembers Quasar has the TP jammer.

He didn't seem to have it at all in Starmasters when Tana Nile searched through his mind like a rolodex.

Yet later in Avengers Infinity, it's specifically mentioned and Moondragon was helpless against it.

http://i.imgur.com/ItSbSbP.jpg

Wendell is all over the place.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by Insane Titan
Cosmo has easily mind phucked a wearer of the quantum bands before, so they aren't totally mind attack proof.


Phyla?

Delta1938
Originally posted by leonidas


@delta--i've not seen him bring in older models in recent avengers i don't think. given the number of avengers books and IM appearances, i can be forgetting though or may have simply missed it.....

A friend of mine told me it still is. I've only got it second hand so I don't know details or can show. I did see a scan of him bringing some in, but don't know the issue.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Phyla? yeah I think she had the bands at the time and was the avatar of death/oblivion too iirc

StiltmanFTW
...

Cosmo the Spacedog. Master of the telepathic arts, lol.

leonidas
don't be laughink at cosmo:

http://i.imgur.com/tlBV5Ht.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QMpdAzc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lK6t6b1.jpg

warlock was pretty damn powerful and cosmo took him down easily. he has some pretty uber feats in his few showings. thumb up

StiltmanFTW
Living Tribunal should announce him as the Telepath Supreme thumb up

basilisk
Originally posted by Insane Titan
Cosmo has easily mind phucked a wearer of the quantum bands before, so they aren't totally mind attack proof. Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Wendell is all over the place.

It really just depends on which writers check up on the characters history. I think Avengers Infinity was written by Roger Stern who probably is the sort to do his homework, unlike current writers. But I was surprised to see the mindblock reference outside of a Quasar issue.

He had also been impervious to Moondragon's control attempts in his own comic. Also he was immune to Overmind who was controlling large numbers of beings on the Stranger's world (seemed to include even guys like Alpha and Futurist) and was busting the Stranger's brain telepathically.

Regarding the Phyla incident, the mindblock thing is not a default behaviour of the bands - the wearer has to set it up. So either Phyla didn't or the writer forgot again.

Genii96
Annihilators win this

basilisk
I also think Annihilators are a good chance for a majority. But it's actually really tough to pick. Ultimates are dangerous, and Illuminati have a couple of aces up their sleeve too.

Whatever the result any of these teams can take at least some wins.

leonidas
i tend to agree that the annihilators would probably take the most wins, but no one is sweeping that is for certain. thumb up

and you're right about the q-bands--if taken off guard even wendell could be affected by tp or psychic blasts:

http://i.imgur.com/vysiE24.png

http://i.imgur.com/282KhO0.jpg

given how far away some of the annihilators were, that is a pretty crazy feat. cosmo is rockink! thumb up

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by leonidas
http://i.imgur.com/vysiE24.png

http://i.imgur.com/282KhO0.jpg

cosmo is rockink! thumb up

Make a Cosmo vs. Krypto thread vin I'm not allowed to.

Imagine abhi's pain...

Insane Titan
Originally posted by leonidas
don't be laughink at cosmo:

http://i.imgur.com/tlBV5Ht.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QMpdAzc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lK6t6b1.jpg

warlock was pretty damn powerful and cosmo took him down easily. he has some pretty uber feats in his few showings. thumb up Cosmo is ace thumb up

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Make a Cosmo vs. Krypto thread vin I'm not allowed to.

Imagine abhi's pain...


Cosmos psi has been uber since day one.



PS: He turns Krypto's brain to Ramen noodles

zopzop
Originally posted by Insane Titan
yeah I think she had the bands at the time and was the avatar of death/oblivion too iirc Originally posted by basilisk
Regarding the Phyla incident, the mindblock thing is not a default behaviour of the bands - the wearer has to set it up. So either Phyla didn't or the writer forgot again.
Exactly. Quasar specifically set up the Q Bands to block mental take over. Phyla's idiotic showings shouldn't be held against him.
http://s33.postimg.org/tpecgtlm3/4835352_braintingle.jpg

If she didn't program them for mental protection, they won't protect her.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by zopzop
Exactly. Quasar specifically set up the Q Bands to block mental take over. Phyla's idiotic showings shouldn't be held against him.
http://s33.postimg.org/tpecgtlm3/4835352_braintingle.jpg

If she didn't program them for mental protection, they won't protect her.

By making a pair of psi ear muffs? WEAK! Okay, not weak if they work, but that is a FAR cry from actual psi immunity. The pic shows him protecting himself from a psi attack with a CONSTRUCT over his ears. Constructs are neither indestructible nor are they permanent. If he is hit hard enough with a jarring blow or with a high level energy attack, he will likely lose concentration on the construct and become vulnerable.

basilisk
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
By making a pair of psi ear muffs? WEAK! Okay, not weak if they work, but that is a FAR cry from actual psi immunity. The pic shows him protecting himself from a psi attack with a CONSTRUCT over his ears. Constructs are neither indestructible nor are they permanent. If he is hit hard enough with a jarring blow or with a high level energy attack, he will likely lose concentration on the construct and become vulnerable. I think that is just a bit of artistic license being early on in the series (I really don't think psions enter through the ears). He set the bands up to automatically protect him, and by the time later in the run when Moondragon, Overmind etc came along it just seemed to be an automatic thing with no constructs involved, even when he seemed unaware he was being attacked. And it was pretty effective - Overmind was seriously powerful at that time.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by basilisk
I think that is just a bit of artistic license being early on in the series (I really don't think psions enter through the ears). He set the bands up to automatically protect him, and by the time later in the run when Moondragon, Overmind etc came along it just seemed to be an automatic thing with no constructs involved, even when he seemed unaware he was being attacked. And it was pretty effective - Overmind was seriously powerful at that time.

That's fine- all I'm saying is that is ancient history. We haven't seen him do it lately. Hell, is he even alive?

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