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1. Sabers

2. Force

3. All-Out

pls stop with these cancer characters

Scourge

Scourge should be stronger than all but the most outlier dark council members for his position to make sense.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
pls stop with these cancer characters You're annoying.

Nyriss

Originally posted by Jmanghan
You're annoying. You're cute.

Nyriss wins, yeah.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
You're cute.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
You're cute. Thanks bby.

Nyriss still wins.

Ehhhhhhh

I'd like to think Nyriss is above Act 2 HoT.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nyriss still wins.

By the time of TOR Scourge would certainly have improved enough between his natural potential and his upgrades from Vitiate to make up the difference between him and Nyriss. He's infinitely more experienced, more skilled and he can fuel his strength with her hatred. He can tank her attacks and defeat her solidly.

So you're suggesting his abilities multiplied to such a degree that he is solidly beating an opponent who he was barely capable of parrying the divided flurries and was put down by a single thrust. Even worse, in the Force he had his telekinesis completely shrugged off despite Nyriss being distracted and then got sent flying by her Force wave which sent him head over heels into a wall leaving him dazed and defeated.

Lol.

His abilities don't need to have multiplied. He'd only need to have gotten like 20-30-40% better in order to compete. Force users scale upwards so that being a certain degree better than someone eliminates their ability to compete. Scourge got an enormous amount better, enough to make up the difference for sure imo.

Competing with someone and beating them solidly are two entirely different things. Sounds like you're shifting the goalposts. The idea that Scourge would be "competing" with Nyriss with just a 20% increase from the version that was absolutely manhandled in the novel is pretty damn laughable, too. Nyriss was destroying basically two versions of him (I'm being generous here, Surik was clearly his better) with absolute ease. A 20% increase is not making much of a change to that.

He's giving her a hard fight by SWTOR, sure, but defeating? even solidly?

Well 20% is a laughably conservative figure. I'm also considering his massive increases in skill and other combat abilities.

Scourges whole point is in keeping the Dark Council in line. I don't think its stupid to consider him having surpassed the members of his day. The dude was supremely confident he could kill Act 2 HoT, their companion, Sajar and the republic base by himself if he wanted.

You were talking about overall ability before. And even with your highest estimate of 40% - I'm not sure that's enough to allow Scourge to properly compete. Nyriss was trashing Scourge plus a superior combatant in Meetra. That's well over 200% of Scourge. A 40% increase is still pitiful by comparison - and it's pretty sad that you only grow 40% in three centuries. Scourge should logically grow a lot more, but still not enough to defeat Nyriss, let alone solidly.

By your logic ROTJ Vader is solidly defeating ROTS Sidious.

The double-standards are astounding quite frankly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Scourges whole point is in keeping the Dark Council in line.

Through reputation more than anything else. I don't think he'd even beat Marr by himself.




I don't have him above every single Council member, especially the higher-ranking ones, so that doesn't really mean anything to me. Nyriss was clearly one of the stronger ones.



Act 2 HoT ended up stalemating him aboard the Space Station later. Also, is this really beyond Nyriss?

Originally posted by AncientPower
By your logic ROTJ Vader is solidly defeating ROTS Sidious.

The double-standards are astounding quite frankly.

Except Vader is said to be 20% less powerful than Sidious. I was actually baring that in mind when making my own estimations.

What double-standards are you even talking about?

Originally posted by SunRazer
You were talking about overall ability before. And even with your highest estimate of 40% - I'm not sure that's enough to allow Scourge to properly compete. Nyriss was trashing Scourge plus a superior combatant in Meetra. That's well over 200% of Scourge. A 40% increase is still pitiful by comparison - and it's pretty sad that you only grow 40% in three centuries. Scourge should logically grow a lot more, but still not enough to defeat Nyriss, let alone solidly.

No, thats ****ing stupid. Like I said at the start, Force users scale upwards. Sidious is only 20% greater than Vader but would destroy him as easily as Nyriss beat Scourge.

I take the 80% thing as potential, not immediate, effective power.

But if "20%" is the distance between Sidious and Vader, yeah, Scourge isn't growing by that much, and certainly not "40%".

Originally posted by SunRazer
Through reputation more than anything else. I don't think he'd even beat Marr by himself.

Pfft. Yeah, ok.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I don't have him above every single Council member, especially the higher-ranking ones, so that doesn't really mean anything to me. Nyriss was clearly one of the stronger ones.

Nor do I, but I find it ridiculous to think that Scourge wouldn't have improved enough in three hundred years to match the Dark Council of his own time.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Act 2 HoT ended up stalemating him aboard the Space Station later. Also, is this really beyond Nyriss?

Taking out a former Dark Council member, the dude who beat a Dark Council-tier opponent and is superior to the Barsen'thor, their companion and a base of republic troops? I'd say that's beyond Nyriss.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I take the 80% thing as potential, not immediate, effective power.

But if "20%" is the distance between Sidious and Vader, yeah, Scourge isn't growing by that much, and certainly not "40%".

Nyriss and Revan state his potential is enormous and he gets amped by Vitiate as well as bio-chem augments. He'd easily grow by that much.

Like do you understand what you're suggesting? Scourge got utterly fodderised by Nyriss with her attention largely focused on Meetra, yet you're claiming that by TOR he's improved to the degree that he solidly defeats Nyriss.

Yes. That is 100% what I am suggesting.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Pfft. Yeah, ok.

What, so you think he beats Marr? Alright.




Matching =/= beating solidly. Again, the goalposts change.



"Dark Council-tier"? I was under the impression that some on the Dark Council could stomp others - ie. Nox and Thanaton.

I'm not sure where HoT as of this would be, since by the end of the act he duels Scourge to a draw.



"Enormous" as in what, exactly? Revan said similarly of novel Surik, IIRC.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes. That is 100% what I am suggesting. Pretty much the equivalent of Savage going from getting stomped by Sidious to being DE Palpatine level. Lmao, Neph's lost it.

Originally posted by SunRazer
What, so you think he beats Marr? Alright.

Marr is hardly the greatest of Council members.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Matching =/= beating solidly. Again, the goalposts change.

Stating the lowest estimations are an olive branch to you, not a tactic on my part.

Originally posted by SunRazer
"Dark Council-tier"? I was under the impression that some on the Dark Council could stomp others - ie. Nox and Thanaton.

I'm not sure where HoT as of this would be, since by the end of the act he duels Scourge to a draw.

Sajar fought Tol Braga for days, with Braga being one of the most powerful Jedi in TOR and able to compete with an Act III HoT.

It's mid-Act II.

Originally posted by SunRazer
"Enormous" as in what, exactly? Revan said similarly of novel Surik, IIRC.

As in they say he has "enormous potential". So obviously he still had vast amounts of growth in him that he would have actualized by the time of TOR. On top of getting amped by Vitiate and his augments. And he gets boosted by Nyriss with his special ability. And he has heavy armor and a shield generator to his advantage. And he has 300 years of extra experience and training.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Marr is hardly the greatest of Council members.

Which is even better for my case, because if he can't beat Marr, he's not beating the best of the Council Members.



If that's what you want to think to make yourself feel better, alright.



Not sure what that's supposed to mean. Vrook is one of the most powerful Jedi in the KotOR era, but I think you'd have Scourge tear through him. The Jedi in TOR are immensely underexposed and generally don't impress, even with TOR's insane hype. Braga doesn't particularly impress. Also, what states that he competed with Act III HoT? He got the HoT to dodge a bit by throwing objects at him, but does anything confirm that he gave the Hero a good fight?



Pretty sure Surik "actualized it" by the time of the novel, but she's not too great. "Enormous potential" doesn't mean he can surpass Nyriss.



Doesn't his inability to feel any emotion block out his ability to feast on... emotions?

I pointed that out at least four times and Neph still denies it.

I love how everyone wanks Nyriss for beating a weakened Meetra and a nobody Scourge, and then for charging a blast that could ash someone on a powerful dark side nexus.

She's nothing special. Scourge at least is implied to be able to strike fear into the dark council, and if it's on his "reputation", that rep must have come from somewhere. Plus Vitiate is amping him.

That isn't the point whatsoever.