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Tulak Hord, Freedon Nadd, Karness Muur

vs

Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh

Team 2 are the accomplishers, right?

Changed team 1 to the accomplished to make more sense.

Team 1.
Ludo seems like a weak link to me.

Luke and DE Sidious crush them.

Ragnos > Hord, Nadd > Sadow (or whichever the apprentice was stronger) and Murr > Kreesh, so I'd go team 2.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Luke and DE Sidious crush them.

Ragnos > Hord, Nadd > Sadow (or whichever the apprentice was stronger) and Murr > Kreesh, so I'd go team 2. Is the first response in reference to another thread in which someone said the Ancients could take DE Sidious or Luke?

More of a general jab, but yeah that would be included.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
More of a general jab, but yeah that would be included. I just don't see what Luke and DE Sidious have to do with this.

Saying that the Ancients would beat them is just weird...

Ragnos>Hord>Nadd>Muur>Sadow>Kressh. I would say Team 1 wins, Ragnos can't carry his team unless you can try to argue Sadow and Kressh are above Muur since they come from the Golden Age of the Sith, but Nadd is confirmed to be above Sadow so yeah.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Ragnos>Hord>Nadd>Muur>Sadow>Kressh. I would say Team 1 wins, Ragnos can't carry his team unless you can try to argue Sadow and Kressh are above Muur since they come from the Golden Age of the Sith, but Nadd is confirmed to be above Sadow so yeah. Sadow below Nadd? :/

I'm shocked Nadd is ranked so high. He was powerful, but his killing of an old and wizened Sadow and his domination of newbie Kun (who promptly kicked his ass later) hardly secure him as top shelf Sith. He speaks of the spirits on Korriban with absolute awe, and they include just about everyone else in the OP.

Freedon Nadd became far more powerful than suspended Naga Sadow as his student and then increased drastically over the following century of rule on Onderon. His remaining power beyond life amplified King Ommin and Queen Amanoa into sorcerers capable of wrecking the likes of Arca Jeth.

Yeh he's definitely above Naga Sadow.

Tbf, he was also stated to be "far more powerful" than (Spirit) Sadow, (at least IIRC the source notes that Sadow is a spirit).

Originally posted by AncientPower
Freedon Nadd became far more powerful than suspended Naga Sadow as his student and then increased drastically over the following century of rule on Onderon. His remaining power beyond life amplified King Ommin and Queen Amanoa into sorcerers capable of wrecking the likes of Arca Jeth.

Yeh he's definitely above Naga Sadow.

It wasn't even his full power as a spirit. He was able to give and take their power as he pleased.

Hence, 'remaining'.

Comparatively, Nadd's achievements are less impressive. He accomplishes them on the back of Sadow's great work, strikes down a weakened opponent, dominates individuals far weaker than himself on Onderon, and only excels at bullying novice Jedi and Exar Kun. The moment Kun gets his hands on Sadow's bling, he loses the fight pretty hard.

Peak Sadow has likely forgotten more Sith lore than Nadd ever mastered and could probably turn him inside out.

EDIT: I'm rereading stuff I have on him. I haven't debated a Nadd thread in years.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Team 1.
Ludo seems like a weak link to me.

Originally posted by Emperordmb


Well, Tulak is perhaps the finest swordsman and warrior on the list, amazingly powerful in the Force on his own, and while I feel Nadd is hardly a proper Sith Lord he's also a talented fighter and killer and very strong. Then you bring Muur into the mix...

It wouldn't be a quick battle for anyone, but Team 1 has the edge.

Team 1, yeah. Though I may argue Ragnos is the most powerful warrior on the field here...

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Team 1, yeah. Though I may argue Ragnos is the most powerful warrior on the field here...

If they had raw power levels, yes. Tulak seems to be the Dooku to his Vader tbh.

ComicVine seems to be doing much better than us at one thing if nothing else. There's compiled Respect threads which we can mine for feats and quotes:

Marka Ragnos

Tulak Hord (Busy busy, DarthAnt)

Ludo Kressh

Naga Sadow

Karness Muur

Well, it's also that Ragnos seems to be the Plagueis to Valkorion's Sidious. SWTOR does identify Ragnos as, "Vitiate's Master," after all, and Ragnos is the one who christened Vitiate as a Sith Lord. Ragnos strikes me as the peak of the ancient Sith line, all things considered. Frightening physicals and an incredible grasp of Sith sorcery and the dark side in general.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Well, it's also that Ragnos seems to be the Plagueis to Valkorion's Sidious. SWTOR does identify Ragnos as, "Vitiate's Master," after all, and Ragnos is the one who christened Vitiate as a Sith Lord. Ragnos strikes me as the peak of the ancient Sith line, all things considered. Frightening physicals and an incredible grasp of Sith sorcery and the dark side in general.

It always surprised me that Ragnos never bothered to seriously try to extend his life. It certainly was common for the empire at the time.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
ComicVine seems to be doing much better than us at one thing if nothing else. There's compiled Respect threads which we can mine for feats and quotes:

Marka Ragnos

Tulak Hord (Busy busy, DarthAnt)

Ludo Kressh

Naga Sadow

Karness Muur
That's because you can't edit posts after 15 minutes on KMC, so it's literally impossible to keep an up to date RT on here.

But nah, that's not the only thing CV does better.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
That's because you can't edit posts after 15 minutes on KMC, so it's literally impossible to keep an up to date RT on here.

But nah, that's not the only thing CV does better.

Fair point on the editing.

I myself have made several RTs on CV, mostly Bane trilogy or Ones of Mortis related as those are my primary areas of expertise, though I plan on expanding into the lost tribe once I get my Daughter and Father RTs out.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
It always surprised me that Ragnos never bothered to seriously try to extend his life. It certainly was common for the empire at the time.

It is an interesting question. How did Sadow live for 6 centuries? Because I feel like Ragnos would be familiar with any particular means at the time.

Stasis chamber - probably similar to what Vitiate did to Revan.

Vitiate kept Revan alive through alchemy you stupid cat loving ingrate

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
It is an interesting question. How did Sadow live for 6 centuries? Because I feel like Ragnos would be familiar with any particular means at the time.

Sadow used a bit of Sith alchemy and what seemed like periods of sleep. In any case, he had the advantage of not being a high profile target. Ragnos was surrounded by foes and probably unable to dedicate as much time to remaining flesh. Not that it seemed to bother him. He never once seems to lament his death.

The Ancient Sith all hated Vitiate for his insane/irrational fear of death and his shunning of the Sith ways.