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Anakin in the second half of his duel vs. Dooku in RotS

Le sigh.

Anakin needs less than 20 lightsaber strikes to murder him.

Replace Ragnos with SSJGSSJ Goku

Ragnos ragdolls him with the force.

Ragnos beats him nightly.

Anakin curbs

Anakin destroys. Less than Jaden tier in skill and an absolute nothing in terms of power.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Anakin destroys. Less than Jaden tier in skill and an absolute nothing in terms of power. Wtf, lol.

Originally posted by carthage
Anakin curbs

Ragnos is better then Dooku in the force, and definitely comparable in physicals and saber/sword ability.

Not much of a fight for Ragnos

Actually, based off hype Ragnos

Ragnos learns what paine truly means

Switch Paine and Ragnos

paine learns what ragnos truly means

interdasking

Interdasking indeed whoa

Anakin wins, like usual.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Actually, based off hype Ragnos

Over The Chosen One, the most powerful Jedi "of his generation, maybe any generation"? Who turned "one of the greatest Jedi in the Order's
25,000 year history, and an even greater Sith Lord"'s command of the Force into "a joke"?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Over The Chosen One, the most powerful Jedi "of his generation, maybe any generation"? Who turned "one of the greatest Jedi in the Order's
25,000 year history, and an even greater Sith Lord"'s command of the Force into "a joke"? Yeah, he totally did that.


...Oh wait, no he didn't.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Over The Chosen One, the most powerful Jedi "of his generation, maybe any generation"? Who turned "one of the greatest Jedi in the Order's
25,000 year history, and an even greater Sith Lord"'s command of the Force into "a joke"?

I originally said Ragnos would get raped but the thread doesn't say which Anakin so just in case it was AOTC or TCW Anakin I sided with Ragnos

EDIT: ninja'd

Those are direct quotations of the RotS novelization.

Anakin crushes him.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
I originally said Ragnos would get raped but the thread doesn't say which Anakin so just in case it was AOTC or TCW Anakin I sided with Ragnos
The most powerful standard incarnation is always assumed.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
I originally said Ragnos would get raped but the thread doesn't say which Anakin so just in case it was AOTC or TCW Anakin I sided with Ragnos

I actually said RotS, the trolling needs to be a little more clever.

And end-of-TCW Anakin would still win.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
EDIT: ninja'd

Those are direct quotations of the RotS novelization.

Anakin crushes him. The ROTS novel is completely and totally irrelevant in every way.

There's nothing supporting it either way.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
And end-of-TCW Anakin would still win.
This is why you're reputation here when from 100 to 0 real quick.

It's canon, so it's its own support, kek.

And jesus christ stop pulling the 'The Chosen One' card. As soon as Skywalker is getting beat, someone just says he's 'the chosen' and is granted a win. We get it, he has heaps of potential in the force and what not but he was matched by Obi-Wan in ROTS with the force. Pretty poor

Please read the OP. This is the Anakin that tooled Dooku in like 15 seconds.

@Ant, your substance-less, unprovoked sniping of me in every thread I post in has stopped becoming amusing and starting becoming annoying, and pretty sad, since I thought you had been working on your emotional difficulties. On ignore you go.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Please read the OP. This is the Anakin that tooled Dooku in like 15 seconds. Thats great, he still loses, and it wasn't 15 seconds, it was more like 45.

And he didn't tool him, the duel was pretty even until Anakin got Dooku's lightsaber.

There was no stomping there.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
On ignore you go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VATFpAtn8M&t=3m23s (to end).

PS: We all know you're not actually putting me on ignore, kek.

EDIT: before your edit

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Thats great, he still loses,

Just disregarding a movie-novelization because you say so isn't an argument. Anakin's performance against Dooku was vastly more impressive than Yoda's, whilst Ragnos was weaker than post-Nathema Vitiate, who then grew stronger for 1000 years and was still weaker than Palpatine.



Not from Dooku's dun moch.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Thats great, he still loses, and it wasn't 15 seconds, it was more like 45.

And he didn't tool him, the duel was pretty even until Anakin got Dooku's lightsaber.

There was no stomping there.

Dooku wasn't even trying much was he? I thought it said somewhere that Sidious told Dooku not kill Anakin and just disarm him or something like that?

^ initially Dooku was holding back, but so was Anakin. Dooku wasn't holding back by the time he got destroyed.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
EDIT: before your edit



Just disregarding a movie-novelization because you say so isn't an argument. Anakin's performance against Dooku was vastly more impressive than Yoda's, whilst Ragnos was weaker than post-Nathema Vitiate, who then grew stronger for 1000 years and was still weaker than Palpatine.



Not from Dooku's dun moch.

Ragnos is above Dooku by quite a bit.

It's not me, its the rules of canon.

The books are canonically below the movies.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Dooku wasn't even trying much was he? I thought it said somewhere that Sidious told Dooku not kill Anakin and just disarm him or something like that?
Nah, to be fair, Skywalker did utterly butcher Dooku as per the novel.

Guess G-Canon, C-Canon, all that shit no longer counts for anything, huh?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nah, to be fair, Skywalker did utterly butcher Dooku as per the novel.

I don't doubt that. Anakin almost ****ed up Dooku towards the end of TCW anyway until he wrecked Anakin with lightning lel.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Ragnos is above Dooku by quite a bit.

It's not me, its the rules of canon.

The books are canonically below the movies.

And the movie does not contradict the book's claim that Anakin dominated - you haven't produced any argument for how it does.

It annoyed me how poorly Dooku seemed to do against Anakin. I know he was a prodigy with the force and great with a saber but Dooku was trained by Yoda and Sidious, has bested so many brilliant Jedi and top 5-10 duelists ever material. Anakin was reckless and brash, The Count was refined and elegant. Dooku had great force use in combat and was agile. Anakin just had strength and it was enough to beat Dooku? Mm I guess I'm just a bit of a fanboy.

chingchangwalla: http://www.geocities.ws/anakin_skywalker_the_jedi/starwarsep3ebook.pdf

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
It annoyed me how poorly Dooku seemed to do against Anakin. I know he was a prodigy with the force and great with a saber but Dooku was trained by Yoda and Sidious, has bested so many brilliant Jedi and top 5-10 duelists ever material. Anakin was reckless and brash, The Count was refined and elegant. Dooku had great force use in combat and was agile. Anakin just had strength and it was enough to beat Dooku? Mm I guess I'm just a bit of a fanboy.

Anakin was hardly a chump technically, but his beating Dooku made sense given his character arc; it conveyed to the audience how powerful he had become and foreshadowed his surrender to the dark side.

It's hardly unrealistic - there comes a certain point where prodigiousness + some amount of training beats age and experience. Terence Tao at 18 was far more generally brilliant at mathematics than most tenured professors in the subject.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
And the movie does not contradict the book's claim that Anakin dominated - you haven't produced any argument for how it does. Because we can visually see that Anakin wasn't dominating him.

Its the same thing with Maul vs Sidious.

Maul wasn't doing half-bad.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Because we can visually see that Anakin wasn't dominating him.


...no we can't? Dooku is backtracking, lacks the aristocratic look he usually puts on, can't mount any offensive, is forced to engage Anakin djem-so style, can't pull off any of his elegance, gets knocked back, and then basically stands there helplessly while Anakin takes his lightsaber. And this happens in a remarkably short amount of time - it takes Vader more time in ESB to defeat Luke when he takes his gloves off.

And since when was your assertion of something evidence for it? In what manner do you think the scene in the movie clearly contradicts the notion that the fight was one-sided? How are you privy to aspects of a fight between two Force-users that would hardly be easy to notice visually? Can you elaborate?



I know you're being facetious but there are people who actually believe this, and don't notice that Sidious is just dancing around, laughing, and giving up instances where he could easily end the fight - like at the very beginning where he ragdolls Maul and Oppress both. The only exception is when Maul goes into a rage after his brother's death and does make Sidious sweat for a few seconds, but you can clearly tell from Sidious's facial expressions, as well as Maul getting some licks in and matching his ground, none of which Dooku accomplishes.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Anakin was hardly a chump technically, but his beating Dooku made sense given his character arc; it conveyed to the audience how powerful he had become and foreshadowed his surrender to the dark side.

It's hardly unrealistic - there comes a certain point where prodigiousness + some amount of training beats age and experience. Terence Tao at 18 was far more generally brilliant at mathematics than most tenured professors in the subject.

Yeah I know he was still technically solid in combat but Dooku was spectacular. So it was mainly all just for the plot? If Anakin and the Count were lesser characters, but still kept all their power would Anakin still win?

I think it makes sense. Again, there comes a point where talent beats experience. This happens in real life, so why couldn't it happen to a being literally born of the Force?

"The only exception is when Maul goes into a rage after his brother's death and does make Sidious sweat for a few seconds"

God that fight was sweet. Savage was outclassed so hard by Sidious it was unbelievable and so was Maul until his brother did die. Sidious looked Genuinely challenged but was always going to win, he had his force power to fall back on

HoT at 20-22 was matching 300 year old Wrath Scourge. Lmao @ incredulity towards Anakin > Dooku

Originally posted by The Ellimist
And the movie does not contradict the book's claim that Anakin dominated - you haven't produced any argument for how it does.
Kind of like how he hasn't proven how powerful Ragnos is supposed to be.

he's the most powerful of of the most powerful brick throwers in the mythos

And Anakin the greatest of this generation, maybe any generation. The most powerful Jedi alive, and he's only getting stronger.

Ragnos' praise > Anakin's feats or Anakin's feats > Ragnos' praise?

Anakin's praise is far better than Ragnos', to be sure. He's called the most powerful Jedi of all time in half a dozen different instances.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Anakin's praise is far better than Ragnos', to be sure. He's called the most powerful Jedi of all time in half a dozen different instances.

Anakin wins then. But not a stomp

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Kind of like how he hasn't proven how powerful Ragnos is supposed to be. Sometimes hype > Feats.

If you can't accept that, ever, then I dunno what to tell you, just go on thinking he's weak asf.

The rest of us with common sense can actually take hype seriously.

And its because everyone else has already proven that point, go debate against Stealth Moose or Skillz about that shit.

Provide evidence, any evidence, or stop replying.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Provide evidence, any evidence, or stop replying. Acknowledge the hype and I'll acknowledge your argument.

Ignoring it COMPLETELY just makes you look stupid.

You, Ellimist, and JKBart refuse to acknowledge the Ancient Sith as anything more then Fodder, regardless of claims.

Ragnos was known as "the most powerful of the most powerful" of the Ancient Sith.

Hord defeated 1,000 Jedi, and was able to move a ship the size of the Endar Spire.

As well as having the accolades from Kreia as the finest swordsman of the Ancient Sith.

Ragnos is (by claim) above that, and the rest.

Muur tooled Krayt, and I don't need to speak for Kun.

Anakin has better feats and hype. J

And below Kun.

That's cool. A source besides his fanboy? Vaylin has better TK and she's clearly below the higher ups.

That's nice. It's been dozens of millennia.

And so is Kun.

Kun isn't an ancient Sith, and Krayt was almost a Vong beast. But then again, you'd need evidence to know that.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Anakin has better feats and hype. J

And below Kun.

That's cool. A source besides his fanboy? Vaylin has better TK and she's clearly below the higher ups.

That's nice. It's been dozens of millennia.

And so is Kun.

Kun isn't an ancient Sith, and Krayt was almost a Vong beast. But then again, you'd need evidence to know that.

See, again. You disagree with Hype, you somehow need solid feats to justify any argument, when you know there is none, which is why its pointless to debate with you when you know that a lot of the Ancient Sith don't have many solid feats, they thrive off hype, claims, and accolades.

Lol, what has Vaylin did that is above that?

She lost to Senya despite Senya repeatedly saying over and over that Arcann and his siblings are all more powerful then her, but nah, I guess shes somehow above Hord.

Kun is considered an Ancient due to his shit with Nadd.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Hord defeated 1,000 Jedi, and was able to move a ship the size of the Endar Spire. Tulak Hord did not defeat 1,000 Jedi by himself, he had an army at his back.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Tulak Hord did not defeat 1,000 Jedi by himself, he had an army at his back. He did, but a lot of the shit he did in the battle, he did single-handedly.

How would Khem feed if Hord did anything singlehandedly? Use that brain I'm sure you have in there somewhere.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
He did, but a lot of the shit he did in the battle, he did single-handedly.
Single-handedly, yet Khem was there helping him, and likely many others as well... LOL. Val is just spewing faux hype, or is meaning single-handedly in a different context than fighting a thousand Jedi by himself.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
How would Khem feed if Hord did anything singlehandedly? Use that brain I'm sure you have in there somewhere. Did you not see the picture I posted where Khem Val said that shit?

Btw, I doubt Hord cares what Val thinks, since Hord beat the shit out of him in a duel.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
He did, but a lot of the shit he did in the battle, he did single-handedly. Charge your phone.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Charge your phone. I will, and its a PS Vita, not a phone.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
PS Vita Kek

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Kek I wanna punch you a lot.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/legendsofthemultiuniverse/images/f/fc/Palpatine_grin.JPG

I honestly cringed when Khem said that about Hord. Not that it was hearsay, but because it contradicts established canon that the Sith did not meet the Jedi again until the GHW.

TOR just doesn't care about continuity, and they show that numerous times - in fact, they repeatedly contradict their own works. It's a huge black mark against the franchise.

So I'm going to go ahead and ignore Khem's praise of that specific incident. I really did think they revamped that story to 1,000 soldiers instead of jedi.

It was referenced in the encyclopedia as Jedi.....

In-universe tho, it's just an interpretation, so says Nai.

Originally posted by SunRazer
TOR just doesn't care about continuity, and they show that numerous times - in fact, they repeatedly contradict their own works. It's a huge black mark against the franchise.

But it has powerful character, that's all that matters.

You're a myopic twit

It's Bioware, of course it has *Insert all-powerful antagonists* facing an *insert Chosen One protagonist* for the fate of _____. Bioware knows nothing but Doomsday scenarios with a sole prodigious saviour.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Did you not see the picture I posted where Khem Val said that shit?

Btw, I doubt Hord cares what Val thinks, since Hord beat the shit out of him in a duel.

lel, Tulak's fanbeast Khem is hardly a reliable source.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It's Bioware, of course it has *Insert all-powerful antagonists* facing an *insert Chosen One protagonist* for the fate of _____. Bioware knows nothing but Doomsday scenarios with a sole prodigious saviour.

Ironically Dragon Age II is the only one that strayed from that I believe.

Originally posted by Petrus
lel, Tulak's fanbeast Khem is hardly a reliable source.

An eyewitness is reliable enough.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It's Bioware, of course it has *Insert all-powerful antagonists* facing an *insert Chosen One protagonist* for the fate of _____. Bioware knows nothing but Doomsday scenarios with a sole prodigious saviour.

That's the shit epic stories are made of bruh

THE BEYONDER

THE ALL-POWERFUL

Did you legit read my RT, Skillz?
Yog-Sothoth > Beyonder, tbh.

GOY-SOTHTOH

Das racist.
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Did you not see the picture I posted where Khem Val said that shit?

Btw, I doubt Hord cares what Val thinks, since Hord beat the shit out of him in a duel.
You should try actually playing the game and hearing these quotes first hand instead of trying to educate your betters.

And that's nice.

Da ****? Was that supposed to counter his point? Theres no difference hearing it in person makes. Khem says he did it single-handedly. That Khem ate from them afterwards is irrelevant.

Khem is Hord's personal wanker. Are we to take his claims at face-value?

Why not? He saw it in person. The whole reason he was in love with him was because the guy was so ****ing badass. Lying about him defeats the whole point.

Originally posted by MythLord
Did you legit read my RT, Skillz?
Yog-Sothoth > Beyonder, tbh.

Woah woah wait...YOU MADE THAT RT?

And nah, The Beyonder > Yoggy, as is WF Mxy, at least in any way that matters.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Woah woah wait...YOU MADE THAT RT?

Which one are you referring to? I made the one on ComicVine(granted, not yet complete, but I'm getting there).

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
And nah, The Beyonder > Yoggy, as is WF Mxy, at least in any way that matters.

Yog-Sothoth is literally omniscient and omnipotent. They can't beat him. Well... WF Mxy maybe.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Da ****? Was that supposed to counter his point? Theres no difference hearing it in person makes. Khem says he did it single-handedly. That Khem ate from them afterwards is irrelevant.
The Jedi, or Sith, kind of still need to have a presence in the Force to be eaten. Not to mention he's didn't just ignore something he posted where Khem said he was there.

More importantly, duh. It's called gaining context, instead of just drinking the Kool Aid. Khem Val is hardly a great source for anything Hord has ever done, being so starry eyed he ignored his own slavery.

Now, while I believe Khem stood there and did shit, along with Hord's entire army, while Tulak slapped his ballsack into the face of armies of Jedi, but somehow didn't see getting stabbed in the back coming, I'll take my chances.

Calling Yog omnipotent is cancerous. He's omniscient, but so is The Beyonder. For gods sakes, Yog is barred from entering the Hilbert Space totality of Lovecraft. Omnipotent my ass.

The Beyonder literally IS the beyond realm, which is an infinite-dimensional multiverse ala the Cthulhu Mythos. The transfinite, (defined as beyond infinite,) Marvel Multiverse is a microbe by comparison.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Calling Yog omnipotent is cancerous. He's omniscient, but so is The Beyonder. For gods sakes, Yog is barred from entering the Hilbert Space totality of Lovecraft. Omnipotent my ass.

Um, he's literally the embodiment of all of time and all of space, and is at the same time beyond the entire Space-Time continuum of any universe. He's also described as limitless and just him talking feels as though every single universe(it's confirmed there's an infinite number of them) is converged onto one point. So him talking generates shockwaves as powerful as a combination of infinite universes. Sounds omnipotent to me.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Beyonder literally IS the beyond realm, which is an infinite-dimensional multiverse ala the Cthulhu Mythos. The transfinite, (defined as beyond infinite,) Marvel Multiverse is a microbe by comparison.

Great, and Nyar, who Yog is at least equal to, has destroyed a number of beyond-infinite universes and Azathoth, someone who both Yog and Nyar are comparable to, has created and destroyed multiverses with his mere presence and is implied to be capable of destroying all of creation(besides his immediate children) if we wakes up.

1. He's not omnipotent in the same way TOAA is. He can't do as he pleases. He's literally restricted from consciously entering time and space. And no, him talking was comparable to universes colliding, not infinite universes. Azathoth is truly omnipotent, not Yog Sothoth.

2. What the hell are you defining beyond-infinite universes and Multiverses as? Because the Cthulhu mythos is a singular Hilbert Space Multiverse. And no, Yog and Nya aren't comparable to a truly omnipotent being. Heck, neither is The Beyonder.

1. He's not restricted, he's just beyond time and space of the multiverse. He's literally described as "limitless" in an overall sense. And Yog-Sothoth is the off-spring of Azathoth and he and Nyar are implied to be the ones that put Azathoth to sleep, so he can't destroy everything he touches. He's comparable to his Father in some way.

2. The Hilbert Space Multiverse is literally described as being a number of infinite universes on several occasions, and Azathoth, Nyarlathotep and Yog-Sothoth exist outside it's realities, so that's beyond infinity.

1. As I remember, Yog SOTHOTH cannot enter standard space-time as he pleases. Therefore he's not omnipotent. Heck, the fact that he even was birthed is proof that he's not truly omnipotent. Only Azathoth, the dreamer, is really omnipotent. And when is it implied that Nyar and Yog put Azathoth to sleep? At best from what I remember he's soothed by flutes playing retarded Lovecraft space-time vibration noises to keep him from awakening.

2. Cool. Now when did Nyarlathotep or Yog or anyone in Cthulhu destroy an infinite number of universes? Because The Beyonder could destroy the Transfinite, (which, again, means a beyond infinite number of universes,) marvel multiverse by thinking too hard. Similar to Yog, The Beyonder literally is the Hilbert Space Beyond Realm, except that there's a lot more context for power in comics and The Beyonder can go where he wants when he wants, where as Yog SOTHOTH can't enter physical space. Heck, PR Beyonder's vast inferior, the Molecule Man, can shove an omniverse in a box for lulz.

1. Yog Sothoth could enter it, actually. He simply didn't want to. The entire theme of Lovecrafts lore is that our race, our planet, heck our entire damn universe, is simply insignificant to higher-up beings. Yog himself admitted humans and such alien races are of little significance to him. And if he really couldn't enter our Multiverse, how were Carter, the insane Arab and confirmed other ten people just from our planet able to summon him and break the boundries of our space and his realm? Are you going to argue a hocus-pocus spell cast by a mere mortal can break the bonds of something a being like Yog-Sothoth can't break? That'd just be ridiculous, and completely contradictory to Lovecraft's and his Lovecraftian followers' work claiming he is limitless. In fact, Yog is responsible for the mad Arab writting the Necronomicon, which is the only thing that allows someone to acess the knowledge to summon Yog-Sothoth.
And the fact that those daemons that beat the monotone drums and blow the flutes of idiots are implied to have spawned from Nyar and Yog(i.e. Yog and Nyar being their very essence/soul/creator) it implies at least some comparable power. Also, Yog-Sothoth and Nyar were literal personifications of beyond-infinite Space and Time:






And sources have even claimed Yog-Sothoth is the chief and supreme Archtype, which implies he's surpassed his Father.

2. Except Yog-Sothoth isn't limited to where he can go and himself literally exists outside of all matter, which is an infinite number of multiverses, each having an infinite number of universes. And it's strongly implied he, Nyar and to an extent Azathoth created this given that they are called the Creators and are literally the only beings that the mythos can spawn from. Also, based on what is Molecule Man vastly inferior to the Beyonder? I recall them stalemating each other, in fact.

Skillz PLZ stop, you're going to get banned and you're just very entertaining for the SWVF.

I'm sorry, Petrus, but this is my mission. That is to smite any fool who would deny the power of The Beyonder. And Lord of the Myths, I'm sorry for having to destroy your love for Lovecraft Lore. I once believed, as you did, that they were supreme. But alas, the tip-top Marvel and DC beasts like The Presence, Mxy, Beyonder, Molecule Man, etc are beyond even Yoggy and Nya.

1. I think it's funny that you mention how in Lovecraft Lore, our universe is insignificant to the Outer Gods. The entire transfinite Marvel Multiverse was similarly insignificant to The Beyonder, to the extent that it was compared to man discovering germs for the first time. And yes, Yog Sothoth cannot enter standard space without the Necronomicon and the knowledge of a man to summon him. You're assuming Lovecraft Lore is subject to some feats war where if some, "random hocus pocus spell" can allow Yog to enter space, surely he can do it of his own volition. Except that there isn't even the slightest indication of that being the case. And if your argument is that he doesn't care, then summoning Yog Sothoth wouldn't work anyways. It hardly contradicts Lovecraft's notion that Yog is limitless, it's just that he's barred from going into conventional space, most likely due to the fact that he's limitless. Nevertheless, that's a restriction The Beyonder doesn't have, who himself was a limitless being in the exact same way Yog Sothoth was, and was able to transform into a 3-Dimensional being and enter the Marvel Totality.

I'd argue that it doesn't imply comparable power, like at all. The daemons beat the monotone drums and blow the idiot flutes to soothe Azathoth, to keep him asleep. It has absolutely nothing to do with some comic-like conception of power. It remains fact that Azathoth is the creator of Yog Sothoth's creator, and in turn everything else in Lovecraft's lore, is but Azathoth's dream. When he wakes up, he'll be alone again. Like, his mere awakening will cause Yog Sothoth to simply...not exist anymore. As such, regardless of his unparalleled idiocy, Azathoth is the only truly all-powerful being in Lovecraft Lore, and nothing else compares. The only reason Yog Sothoth is considered the supreme archetype is because he's the strongest Outer God not named Azathoth, who's a complete and utter blind idiot god, and in turn...not really much of an archetype.

2. Except you have no evidence that there's an infinite number of multiverses involved, but rather a single Hilbert space-time globule. Also, you recall wrong, even the Molecule Man is a relative ant compared to the Beyonder at his full power, (note: at his full power. The Beyonder held back throughout all of Secret Wars). The Molecule Man literally compares The Beyonder's superiority to him to his own superiority over Captain-Freaking-America:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125547/3449157-owen.jpg

This Owen who's far more powerful than all the Marvel Cosmic entities combined, and can repair Multiverse-wide destruction in mere seconds.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Molecule%20Man%20Respect%20Thread/Repair2.jpg

The reason Marvel will always beat Lovecraft is two reasons: Versatility and context for power. Yog Sothoth doesn't possess nearly the breadth of abilities a being like The Beyonder has, who already possesses Godlike/Nigh-Omnipotent abilities like Causality and Acausality, along with the litany of Marvel energy attacks, (but just on a scale where he could, say, blow up the multiverse with his finger,) and other haxx abilities:

http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/137152/2752844-beyonderisrealitydw2.jpg

Yog Sothoth, conversely, has never even been in a fight, and we don't really have much context for how he even would fight. All we really have from him is his speaking being compared to universes converging onto one point to destroy it. Not only is that completely and utterly insignificant compared to what The Beyonder can dish out, but it's very flowery and hyperbolic in nature, (such as the various accolades calling Odin and Galactus omnipotent). As such, I'm definitely taking The Beyonder in a fight, whether it's the lack of restraint on his abilities, his versatility, or the context for which his Nigh-Omnipotence can affect a fight.

I always knew Michael Jackson would be back one day, to smite us all.

Owen Reece: Cat Man.

Very good. I will wait until July to start the bans.

Ant, it seems I've failed to uphold my status as a member of the Badabingites. It's an hero timing for me.

Wait, you can get banned by debating this stuff on the SWVF? Well... I ain't touching this topic, then. He of Supreme skills, this isn't over. I shall return!

And I hope you do.

an PM timing

Zampano is online?