KMC Social media experiment

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



walshy
I created a Twitter account for kmc and will share username/password for everyone to use and post what they like. Just don't ruin it!


Username: kmcforums
Password: kmc123


Take a look at killermovies (@kmcforums): https://twitter.com/kmcforums?s=09

Surtur
[email protected] "just don't ruin it". If you didn't want people to ruin it you probably shouldn't be making it so anyone who wants to post on there can post on there.

Kind of like the people who, on Halloween, just leave a big bowl of candy on their porch with a "take only 1" sign above it..assuming that is all you need to prevent people from taking more than 1.

walshy
I'm taking the risk of trusting you kmc folk, see how it turns out

Surtur
Originally posted by walshy
I'm taking the risk of trusting you kmc folk, see how it turns out

In that case I have some lovely timeshares you might be interested in.

Surtur
Lol who is the person in that profile picture?

AbnormalButSane
Alex

Surtur
Originally posted by AbnormalButSane
Alex

Who is Alex?

Unoriginal
He is a rad.... dude

riv6672
Good luck on your experiment. thumb up

Genesis-Soldier
I have nothing interesting to add to the Twitter account so I shall leave it be

riv6672
I dont have any social media accounts, which i'm told is interesting.

riv6672
Originally posted by walshy
I'm taking the risk of trusting you kmc folk, see how it turns out
So, whatever came of this? Anything?

Nuke Nixon
So you gave the entire board a twitter and no one posted much of anything.

Perfect.

walshy
I like to think we touched somebody and enriched the lives of a few

riv6672
Just wondering.

Flyattractor
Hooray for FaceTwit!

Nuke Nixon
Originally posted by walshy
I like to think we touched somebody and enriched the lives of a few

Challenge for the day, go out and try to touch everyone you pass. Bonus for saying "Tag you're it"

Slay
Wouldn't it be ****ing awesome if this account somehow led to discovering who the person in that profile picture really is?

Surtur
You should open up a KMC myspace page.

Flyattractor
I vote that if the experiment fails the test subject species should be PUT DOWN!

Surtur
Originally posted by Flyattractor
I vote that if the experiment fails the test subject species should be PUT DOWN!

I don't see what you have against transgendered people.

riv6672
You dont WANT to see what he has up against them!

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Surtur
I don't see what you have against transgendered people.



I said THE SPECIES. Not just a singular Sub-Species.

I don't cut corners when it comes to Genocide.

Surtur
Originally posted by Flyattractor
I said THE SPECIES. Not just a singular Sub-Species.

I don't cut corners when it comes to Genocide.

Soon it will be a new species dude. We've already got like 50 different genders.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/02/13/ facebook_custom_gender_options_here_are_all_56_cus
tom_options.html

Soon it will be a new species. I mean "Neutrois" sounds like a new species.

Flyattractor
Thats why we gotta Nip this Human Thing in the bud now. Put a stop to it. Before it escapes this planet and becomes Galactic Roaches.

Like in Doctor NuWho.

Scribble
Originally posted by Surtur
Soon it will be a new species dude. We've already got like 50 different genders.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/02/13/ facebook_custom_gender_options_here_are_all_56_cus
tom_options.html

Soon it will be a new species. I mean "Neutrois" sounds like a new species. You know there's a funny mistake about the word 'gender' that a lot of people get confused by these days, and it's one that annoys both linguists and scientists. You see, 'gender' and 'sex' are not the same thing, and if you look at it from a linguistic point of view, there are actually a lot of countries that utilise more than two genders in the way they speak. The idea of 'gender' is how the concepts of male and female relate to e


Actually you know what I don't ****ing care any more

Withsensibility
Axel with the bants.

Surtur
Originally posted by Scribble
You know there's a funny mistake about the word 'gender' that a lot of people get confused by these days, and it's one that annoys both linguists and scientists. You see, 'gender' and 'sex' are not the same thing, and if you look at it from a linguistic point of view, there are actually a lot of countries that utilise more than two genders in the way they speak. The idea of 'gender' is how the concepts of male and female relate to e


Actually you know what I don't ****ing care any more

Yes I know. Gender is a magical thing that can just be whatever one feels like. Feelings>reality.

Flyattractor
I choose the Gender of JERK TO THE WORLD!

Surtur
Originally posted by Flyattractor
I choose the Gender of JERK TO THE WORLD!

I didn't know "feminist" was now a gender.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Surtur
I didn't know "feminist" was now a gender.


Its actually pronounced FEMINAZI.

Surtur
That's only in Europe.

Scribble
Originally posted by Surtur
Yes I know. Gender is a magical thing that can just be whatever one feels like. Feelings>reality. No no, you see, 'gender' has a specific use in language (which barely anyone seems to understand any more, like for example 'fox' or 'dragon' aren't male/female specific so they can't be applied to gender, it just doesn't make sense) that differs from the standard male/female binary of 'sex', so whilst it still deals in male/female specifics (e.g. a masculine male and a feminine male could be considered two different genders) it is distinct from sex. In language it becomes more complex, mainly because some languages utilise up to seven different gen


Actually **** this right off again

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Surtur
That's only in Europe.


You Wish.

Surtur
Originally posted by Scribble
No no, you see, 'gender' has a specific use in language (which barely anyone seems to understand any more, like for example 'fox' or 'dragon' aren't male/female specific so they can't be applied to gender, it just doesn't make sense) that differs from the standard male/female binary of 'sex', so whilst it still deals in male/female specifics (e.g. a masculine male and a feminine male could be considered two different genders) it is distinct from sex. In language it becomes more complex, mainly because some languages utilise up to seven different gen


Actually **** this right off again

It's not that complex. If your sex is male refer to your gender as male. If your sex is female refer to your gender as female.

It's also certainly not so complex we need 50+ different genders. Here we go: male, female, transgender. Boom. We don't need 50 different words for it.

Scribble
Originally posted by Surtur
It's not that complex. If your sex is male refer to your gender as male. If your sex is female refer to your gender as female.

It's also certainly not so complex we need 50+ different genders. Here we go: male, female, transgender. Boom. We don't need 50 different words for it. Well you see that's easy enough for people who see things very simply, i.e. people without much thought for what it means to be a human, but for those who are partial to more out of the box thinking and analysis of human existence it can be interesting to analyse the way that the animus and anima interact. The idea that every human has elements within themselves that express both masculine and feminine properties: in the writings of Carl Jung, he theorised tha


****ing hell, why do I even bother?

Surtur
Lol I mean what is there even to say? You kind of babble about something and then at the end always act like you just couldn't be bothered, even though you obviously totally can be bothered and would most likely continue to respond if I really pushed the issue lol.

Surtur
To be fair though we have some fundamentally different views on gender obviously. For example, I think transgender people have legit mental illnesses and I'm guessing you don't. I'm not saying that because I want to argue the point that they are indeed mental illnesses, I'm just saying we have different beliefs about this stuff.

Scribble
Originally posted by Surtur
Lol I mean what is there even to say? You kind of babble about something and then at the end always act like you just couldn't be bothered, even though you obviously totally can be bothered and would most likely continue to respond if I really pushed the issue lol. I mean I guess if you read that post structure as 100% serious that's fine, you do you, man. I was more just making the point that no matter how in-depth I explain it you'll just say something macho af and tell me I'm babbling. If I thought I could sway your opinion to any degree, I actually would continue.
Originally posted by Surtur
To be fair though we have some fundamentally different views on gender obviously. For example, I think transgender people have legit mental illnesses and I'm guessing you don't. I'm not saying that because I want to argue the point that they are indeed mental illnesses, I'm just saying we have different beliefs about this stuff. I think our views differ in the sense that I know what the word 'gender' means and that you only really have a very vague grasp of the concept that you've primarily built up from Breitbart articles. You know that you have a view on something, and you know that you're right, you just can't really explain why, it's fine. You do you, bro. I just find it funny when people talk about stuff they have very little actual understanding of. You're like the mirror image of Tumblr.

Nuke Nixon
Used to be so nice and neat, 9 thousand years ya got males and females then past 25 or so odd years all this splintering over sex/gender/identity shows up and boom! no more good times for the normies.

Slay
Originally posted by Nuke Nixon
Used to be so nice and neat, 9 thousand years ya got males and females then past 25 or so odd years all this splintering over sex/gender/identity shows up and boom! no more good times for the normies.
Transgenderism has been prevalent throughout the ages. In the Indian subcontinent they have three recognised genders; male, female and hijra (male-to-female transgenders). Don't let facts get in the way of your folksy wit though.

Nuke Nixon
Originally posted by Nuke Nixon
boom! no more good times for the normies.

called it

Slay
Originally posted by Slay
Don't let facts get in the way of your folksy wit though.
Called it.

Nuke Nixon
Ahh! The lash of Social Justice stings!

Slay
Nothing to do with Social Justice or your other buzzwords. When you post bullshit on a public forum, expect to be corrected.

Nuke Nixon
Who in the world likes to be corrected? Hence the stinging bit. ow

Slay
Originally posted by Nuke Nixon
Who in the world likes to be corrected? Hence the stinging bit. ow
I don't know, you could look at it as an instance in your life where you learned some new information. Might alleviate the sting.

Nuke Nixon
Learning something new and incorporating it into your world view is not easy for us dinosaurs.

Slay
Originally posted by Nuke Nixon
Learning something new and incorporating it into your world view is not easy for us dinosaurs.
Well, as long as you don't flat-out refuse to incorporate new information into your world view and remain open to new ideas, it's all good, my brosaurus.

Scribble
I think the problem is that a lot of Americans aren't taught much about other cultures and basically know nothing about anything outside of their very narrow worldview.

And also that if an idiot is confronted by someone that calls them on them being stupid, they think that that person represents the polar opposite of their own personal beliefs.

Just like if a Tumblrite is faced by someone who calls them on their weird, made-up gender shit (that really belittles actual gender issues), they assume that they're a psychopathic bigot who wants to invade their safe space and then go to a Trump rally.

In reality, both sides are ****ing morons who nothing about what gender means or implies.

Nuke Nixon
Originally posted by Slay
Well, as long as you don't flat-out refuse to incorporate new information into your world view and remain open to new ideas, it's all good, my brosaurus.

I guess my next question is... who decided all this new information was how it's going to be thought of from now on? What makes it "right" and everything before it "wrong"?

Slay
Originally posted by Nuke Nixon
I guess my next question is... who decided all this new information was how it's going to be thought of from now on? What makes it "right" and everything before it "wrong"?
Well, like I just said, it's not necessarily ''new'' information, it's been around for a long time. It's just new to you. Now I don't feel like writing a long-ass post to explain why we now live in a world where transgender rights have to be considered, so I'm going to give a simplified explanation. What makes the current situation right is that transgender people are now allowed to live in freedom without having to worry about being persecuted or berated for their gender. The situation before was wrong because they were not allowed this basic freedom. Let me ask you this: How does transgenderism negatively effect your life in any way? Why would you oppose transgender rights?

Nuke Nixon
Originally posted by Slay
How does transgenderism negatively effect your life in any way? Why would you oppose transgender rights?

Whoa back the truck up son, I was never against any of that. Never even gave it a second thought until recently with all the stuff in the news. Negative? Nah it's all good in my hood.

I am all for every type of people having whatever rights they need to be happy in this broken crusty world, but I do reserve the right to disagree respectfully with that viewpoint, I don't think I have to like the idea if I don't "get it".

Live and let live, yo

Slay
Originally posted by Nuke Nixon
Whoa back the truck up son, I was never against any of that. Never even gave it a second thought until recently with all the stuff in the news. Negative? Nah it's all good in my hood.

I am all for every type of people having whatever rights they need to be happy in this broken crusty world, but I do reserve the right to disagree respectfully with that viewpoint, I don't think I have to like the idea if I don't "get it".

Live and let live, yo
That's cool brev, I guess your earlier dismissive statement about transgender rights made me assume that you actively opposed it. Being ignorant of transgender rights and having no interest in learning about them is regretful, but fine as long as it doesn't lead you to actually infringe or protest their rights.

I actually don't actively champion transgender rights because they don't really effect my life in any way. It's just when I see people say incorrect things about them, I'm tempted to speak up.

Nuke Nixon
Originally posted by Slay
I guess your earlier dismissive statement about transgender rights made me assume that you actively opposed it.

If one were to assume that from all my dismissive statements one would think I opposed all life on Earth like Fly does. In truth am just simple caveman and make dumb sounds out of mouth before brain can review.

Surtur
Originally posted by Scribble
I think our views differ in the sense that I know what the word 'gender' means and that you only really have a very vague grasp of the concept that you've primarily built up from Breitbart articles. You know that you have a view on something, and you know that you're right, you just can't really explain why, it's fine. You do you, bro. I just find it funny when people talk about stuff they have very little actual understanding of. You're like the mirror image of Tumblr.

I haven't built up anything from just Breitbart articles. In my opinion transgenders have mental issues. I mean I get it, we're onto the "smug dick" part of the discussion.

Surtur
Originally posted by Scribble
I think the problem is that a lot of Americans aren't taught much about other cultures and basically know nothing about anything outside of their very narrow worldview.

And also that if an idiot is confronted by someone that calls them on them being stupid, they think that that person represents the polar opposite of their own personal beliefs.

Just like if a Tumblrite is faced by someone who calls them on their weird, made-up gender shit (that really belittles actual gender issues), they assume that they're a psychopathic bigot who wants to invade their safe space and then go to a Trump rally.

In reality, both sides are ****ing morons who nothing about what gender means or implies.

Oh please, if Brexit has taught us anything it's that people in other countries can be ignorant as f*ck too. It's always funny when people from other countries try to act superior, especially if they're from somewhere in the UK.

You quite literally call others morons while being moronic, call others ignorant whilst acting ignorant. Is this another post that isn't meant to be serious?

Scribble
Originally posted by Surtur
Oh please, if Brexit has taught us anything it's that people in other countries can be ignorant as f*ck too. It's always funny when people from other countries try to act superior, especially if they're from somewhere in the UK.

You quite literally call others morons while being moronic, call others ignorant whilst acting ignorant. Is this another post that isn't meant to be serious? "A lot of Americans" is hardly ignorant, the way I phrased it makes that clear. I actually got this point from one of my American friends. He literally told me that a lot of Americans know shit-all about other cultures. Don't act so pissy, lad. Are you going to address any of my other points? Or just whinge about how I'm addressing you?


Also, the points I made in those 'unserious' posts were still valid points, you just failed to acknowledge any of them and instead (again) just got upset about my method of address instead. Way to dodge my points, man. You do exactly what you claim I do.

Surtur
It is ignorant though to imply a significant portion of the population, but hey we can dance around that if you like. Would you say a lot of people where you are from are ignorant too?

Scribble
Originally posted by Surtur
It is ignorant though to imply a significant portion of the population, but hey we can dance around that if you like. Would you say a lot of people where you are from are ignorant too? They certainly are, it's a real shame. It's actually an issue in this country too. Misinformation spreads like wildfire.

You going to discuss my points yet or keep going on about my methods of address?

Surtur
The points you make could be said about a lot of countries though. So we could certainly address them if you want to do so in a broader sense.

Surtur
Like for instance okay a lot of people are ignorant to other cultures. What culture are people being ignorant of when it comes to gender stuff or transgender stuff?

I mean I know transgender people have a high rate of suicide. I know the suicide rate doesn't really improve even after they transition.

Scribble
I don't think you're understanding what I'm talking about.

What I'm saying is that your complete ignorance to what 'gender' actually means comes across as the mirror image to the Tumblrites who want to create a tonne of pronouns and supposed 'genders', without actually knowing what gender really means or implies.

Yes, there are two sides to gender: masculine and feminine. But further than that there are many ways of interpreting this. That article that outlines the '50 genders'? Not as ridiculous as you'd believe. It doesn't go on about demi-queer foxkin or apache attack helicopters. Instead, it outlines the ways that sexuality, sex and gender relate to each other. E.g., hetero masculine man is one, homo masculine man is another, hetero feminine man, etc., etc.

I agree that trying to make people use ridiculous pronouns for every different person who makes one up is silly, but the reason I dislike it is because I think it reduces the seriousness of the study of what gender means in the modern world. It is a gross exaggeration of the situation. However, you just dismiss the entire idea that gender is complex and see gender the same as sex, which is inaccurate and ill-informed.

Do you get what I'm saying? Your refutation of the literal definitions of gender are the polar opposite of the extreme Tumblr examples, and is just as laughable as someone who thinks that feeling like they are, inside, an animal/dragon/fictional character has anything to do with the study of the concepts of male and female personality traits within humans.

Surtur
Lol but dude I'm not ignorant to these ideas. I just don't buy into them. I've heard your arguments before, your theories. You say there are many ways to interpret it..right after calling me ignorant but if you can interpret it in many ways well what about my way?

I've heard this all before, I've even heard people just say gender is nothing but a social construct. It's all fine and dandy to me, I still find 50 genders or more silly and I think we eventually cross a line from examining what it is to be human or however you put it..to indulging crazy people.

You just seem to come at me as if I'm arguing with you that 2+2 isn't 4. That is concrete..we know that. It's not up to interpretation. If someone doesn't agree with how you interpret something it doesn't make them ignorant.

Scribble
Before we continue, can I just clarify a few things, because I don't feel like you're getting your specific points across very clearly. Are you saying that despite gender not being the same as biological sex, and despite many other countries having more than two genders used in their languages, that there are only two genders, and that's the end of it? And do you completely dismiss the idea that gender identity is informed in at least part by social constructs?

Or are you just saying that some people take it all too far? Because that last thing I agree with.

riv6672
Talk about an experiment:

Bump an old thread and see where it goes.

Flyattractor
Yeah. Add 1 part Surt and 1 part Scrib and get Near Infinite Postage Overload of Dorkiness!!!!!!!!!

Surtur
Originally posted by Scribble
Before we continue, can I just clarify a few things, because I don't feel like you're getting your specific points across very clearly. Are you saying that despite gender not being the same as biological sex, and despite many other countries having more than two genders used in their languages, that there are only two genders, and that's the end of it? And do you completely dismiss the idea that gender identity is informed in at least part by social constructs?

Or are you just saying that some people take it all too far? Because that last thing I agree with.

What I'm saying is that "other countries have more than two genders" is certainly irrelevant when it comes to it being true or false.

I would prefer people stick to male/female. If they want to float this "there is more than one gender" then okay, but it gets f*cking ridiculous when you get to 50. Especially when it's so asinine that a lot of these "genders" more or less mean the same thing.

I just feel like if a person see's an article with 50+ genders and goes "this seems about right" then they probably have legit mental issues. To which some of them aren't anything. They aren't "you're mostly masculine, but sometimes feminine!" or anything, so are just "you're no gender at all" lol.

Now, what about transgender people and the high rate of suicide both before and AFTER they transform? Now at first you might be tempted to blame that on society, that it's society that makes them feel bad and kill themselves and it says nothing about the ineffectiveness of the transformation. I was on board that same train..until I found out other groups that were as oppressed or way more oppressed still didn't have suicide rates that high so yeah I just default back to "it's a mental issue".

For instance this discussion might interest you:

TpyPpwkM3Fw

It's about "trans" people and the "horrors" they face which you can see a lot of..more or less lying. Like when he talks about trans people being "denied" healthcare. It also talks about suicide rates and the opinions of some doctors when it comes to the safety of these hormones, etc.

Sancty

Scribble
Originally posted by Surtur
What I'm saying is that "other countries have more than two genders" is certainly irrelevant when it comes to it being true or false.

I would prefer people stick to male/female. If they want to float this "there is more than one gender" then okay, but it gets f*cking ridiculous when you get to 50. Especially when it's so asinine that a lot of these "genders" more or less mean the same thing.

I just feel like if a person see's an article with 50+ genders and goes "this seems about right" then they probably have legit mental issues. To which some of them aren't anything. They aren't "you're mostly masculine, but sometimes feminine!" or anything, so are just "you're no gender at all" lol.

Now, what about transgender people and the high rate of suicide both before and AFTER they transform? Now at first you might be tempted to blame that on society, that it's society that makes them feel bad and kill themselves and it says nothing about the ineffectiveness of the transformation. I was on board that same train..until I found out other groups that were as oppressed or way more oppressed still didn't have suicide rates that high so yeah I just default back to "it's a mental issue".

For instance this discussion might interest you:

TpyPpwkM3Fw

It's about "trans" people and the "horrors" they face which you can see a lot of..more or less lying. Like when he talks about trans people being "denied" healthcare. It also talks about suicide rates and the opinions of some doctors when it comes to the safety of these hormones, etc. Warning: This is a ****ing long one. But bear with me.

Well, I don't necessarily buy into the idea that there are 50 different specific genders, I just think it shows that the idea of gender is much more complex than a binary system. I'm not a huge fan of labels, so I don't really like the idea of just sticking a bunch of names on things and saying "That's how it is now", like it's the new factual way of life, as that limits the meaning of it in the same way that a binary system does.

As for the social construction of gender, this is where a lot of where I've built my view on gender comes from. I think that the way that people have constructed gender in the past has essentially led us to the predicaments we face today: i.e., what it means to be a man or a woman, what it means to be male or female. Personally, if I knew myself less well than I do, I could probably claim to be 'nonbinary' or whatever, as the idea of what it means to 'be a man' has never been something I've been able to relate to. Holding back emotions, gaining positions of power, driven by sex, none of these things relate very much to my own life. Does that make me not a man? No, because my sex is a male body. Does it make me realise that most of what we're told about gender is bullshit? Yes.

I think a lot of people are starting to realise that, but instead of dealing with it in a personal way, they're all too happy to start sticking a bunch of labels on it. Just how I don't see the point in being left or right wing, instead just kind of being in touch with both sides of the spectrum, I essentially see gender the same. Is my sex male? Yeah, and I'm happy with that because that's how I way born. But I don't have any real gender identity purely because I don't see things that simply and I'm happy with that, I don't see it being that important to have a 'gender identity'. I'd rather just focus on who I am as a person, rather than compare myself to the supposed ideas of 'male and female', as like I've said, I think the ideas of strict 'male and female' personality types (or as the internet calls them, 'genders') are very limited and not very useful to someone who is interested more in the complexities of the human condition. Do you understand what I'm talking about?

As for trans issues, I can't speak about them at length because I'm not every trans person ever and every trans person has their own issues and complexities that they deal with (not all of them commit suicide, so that means a huge number of them are actually very happy with their transition). But let me give a brief view on one way I could see it, in particular relation to your suicide points: society essentially tells us that we are either male or female, and that's the end of it. So what if someone is unsure of their gender identity, and since they feel uncomfortable being labelled a male, they feel like becoming female is the answer to their problems? I can relate to that, when I was younger and a mixed-up lad I often wondered if I'd be happier if I were born female instead. So I can relate to that point of view personally. Would I have been happier if I had decided "**** it, I'ma be a girl now"? Hell no. I would have realised I wasn't happy like that either. So yes: this is a mental issue, a gender dysphoria for being both male and female. So I could see why someone would commit suicide in that situation: if they aren't happy being male, and they aren't happy being female, why bother even being alive? Their solution probably should have been to stay as their born sex and just deal with it, because everyone has their own issues to get around, instead of just assuming they would be happier being female or male.

But this isn't across the board. It's not like every single trans person makes the transition for the exact same reasons. Maybe some were born with incredibly overt feminine or masculine personality traits and actually end up being really happy with themselves after the transition. Is that not a positive thing? That someone feels comfortable in their body, and are able to live a productive life from thereon in? That doesn't seem like a mental illness to me, as mental illness usually has no simple get-out clause like that. If a paranoid delusional person believes there is something inside their body and they cut themselves open and 'remove' it, they will still find something further to be paranoid about, because mental illness does not just go away like that. But if a person feels like they would be happier in a different body, make that transition, and then actually do feel happier, that isn't a sign of mental illness to me. If they do it and find themselves still unhappy, then clearly their issue is much larger or just different to a sex change, and they will continue to feel unhappy.

But since sex changes are so accepted now, people will just say "oh you don't feel happy? get a sex change!!" because that's the PC thing to say, and it's not always helpful. Like parents who let their teenage children get sex changes. That's not on, because they are in a very sensitive period of their life and may not truly know what they want. Let them dress up as the other gender and live that way for a while before just shipping them off to Mr Chop Chop and making an irreversible decision. This is a complex issue, not something that can always be cured by surgery.

Sorry that this is such a long post, but that just highlights my point: this is not a simple ****ing issue. You can't just say "All trans people are mental because suicide" because not every case is the same. Some people benefit from it, some people don't, and this continuing approach that both sides are taking only hurts things further. What if I'd come from a rich, liberal family and told them I felt out of place in my body and would have maybe been happier born a girl? They'd have probably talked me into a sex change. And I wouldn't have been any happier, probably have been even more depressed about it all, since I'd have lost my male side, and because as it turns out I actually really enjoy being a guy, and although my personal perception of my own 'gender', whatever that means, isn't simple male/female, that doesn't mean that surgery is going to help me at all.

But that doesn't go for all trans people, because humans are complex and every situation has its own context. A lesson to take away from this? Things are never simple, and you saying "all trans people be cray cray and will kill themselves" is reductionist, and the idea of just turning into the opposite gender at the drop of a hat is reductionist too. Neither are helpful for the future of humankind.

I hope this post isn't too long for you to read, because I feel like I've made some fairly good points here. And I will say that if you basically just dismiss literally everything I've said I'll take that as a sign that you don't want to actually discuss anything, that's fine, but it's a ****ing ballache to have to type all of this to someone who won't even at least try to understand what I'm saying.

Slay
Originally posted by Scribble
Warning: This is a ****ing long one. But bear with me.

Well, I don't necessarily buy into the idea that there are 50 different specific genders, I just think it shows that the idea of gender is much more complex than a binary system. I'm not a huge fan of labels, so I don't really like the idea of just sticking a bunch of names on things and saying "That's how it is now", like it's the new factual way of life, as that limits the meaning of it in the same way that a binary system does.

As for the social construction of gender, this is where a lot of where I've built my view on gender comes from. I think that the way that people have constructed gender in the past has essentially led us to the predicaments we face today: i.e., what it means to be a man or a woman, what it means to be male or female. Personally, if I knew myself less well than I do, I could probably claim to be 'nonbinary' or whatever, as the idea of what it means to 'be a man' has never been something I've been able to relate to. Holding back emotions, gaining positions of power, driven by sex, none of these things relate very much to my own life. Does that make me not a man? No, because my sex is a male body. Does it make me realise that most of what we're told about gender is bullshit? Yes.

I think a lot of people are starting to realise that, but instead of dealing with it in a personal way, they're all too happy to start sticking a bunch of labels on it. Just how I don't see the point in being left or right wing, instead just kind of being in touch with both sides of the spectrum, I essentially see gender the same. Is my sex male? Yeah, and I'm happy with that because that's how I way born. But I don't have any real gender identity purely because I don't see things that simply and I'm happy with that, I don't see it being that important to have a 'gender identity'. I'd rather just focus on who I am as a person, rather than compare myself to the supposed ideas of 'male and female', as like I've said, I think the ideas of strict 'male and female' personality types (or as the internet calls them, 'genders') are very limited and not very useful to someone who is interested more in the complexities of the human condition. Do you understand what I'm talking about?

As for trans issues, I can't speak about them at length because I'm not every trans person ever and every trans person has their own issues and complexities that they deal with (not all of them commit suicide, so that means a huge number of them are actually very happy with their transition). But let me give a brief view on one way I could see it, in particular relation to your suicide points: society essentially tells us that we are either male or female, and that's the end of it. So what if someone is unsure of their gender identity, and since they feel uncomfortable being labelled a male, they feel like becoming female is the answer to their problems? I can relate to that, when I was younger and a mixed-up lad I often wondered if I'd be happier if I were born female instead. So I can relate to that point of view personally. Would I have been happier if I had decided "**** it, I'ma be a girl now"? Hell no. I would have realised I wasn't happy like that either. So yes: this is a mental issue, a gender dysphoria for being both male and female. So I could see why someone would commit suicide in that situation: if they aren't happy being male, and they aren't happy being female, why bother even being alive? Their solution probably should have been to stay as their born sex and just deal with it, because everyone has their own issues to get around, instead of just assuming they would be happier being female or male.

But this isn't across the board. It's not like every single trans person makes the transition for the exact same reasons. Maybe some were born with incredibly overt feminine or masculine personality traits and actually end up being really happy with themselves after the transition. Is that not a positive thing? That someone feels comfortable in their body, and are able to live a productive life from thereon in? That doesn't seem like a mental illness to me, as mental illness usually has no simple get-out clause like that. If a paranoid delusional person believes there is something inside their body and they cut themselves open and 'remove' it, they will still find something further to be paranoid about, because mental illness does not just go away like that. But if a person feels like they would be happier in a different body, make that transition, and then actually do feel happier, that isn't a sign of mental illness to me. If they do it and find themselves still unhappy, then clearly their issue is much larger or just different to a sex change, and they will continue to feel unhappy.

But since sex changes are so accepted now, people will just say "oh you don't feel happy? get a sex change!!" because that's the PC thing to say, and it's not always helpful. Like parents who let their teenage children get sex changes. That's not on, because they are in a very sensitive period of their life and may not truly know what they want. Let them dress up as the other gender and live that way for a while before just shipping them off to Mr Chop Chop and making an irreversible decision. This is a complex issue, not something that can always be cured by surgery.

Sorry that this is such a long post, but that just highlights my point: this is not a simple ****ing issue. You can't just say "All trans people are mental because suicide" because not every case is the same. Some people benefit from it, some people don't, and this continuing approach that both sides are taking only hurts things further. What if I'd come from a rich, liberal family and told them I felt out of place in my body and would have maybe been happier born a girl? They'd have probably talked me into a sex change. And I wouldn't have been any happier, probably have been even more depressed about it all, since I'd have lost my male side, and because as it turns out I actually really enjoy being a guy, and although my personal perception of my own 'gender', whatever that means, isn't simple male/female, that doesn't mean that surgery is going to help me at all.

But that doesn't go for all trans people, because humans are complex and every situation has its own context. A lesson to take away from this? Things are never simple, and you saying "all trans people be cray cray and will kill themselves" is reductionist, and the idea of just turning into the opposite gender at the drop of a hat is reductionist too. Neither are helpful for the future of humankind.

I hope this post isn't too long for you to read, because I feel like I've made some fairly good points here. And I will say that if you basically just dismiss literally everything I've said I'll take that as a sign that you don't want to actually discuss anything, that's fine, but it's a ****ing ballache to have to type all of this to someone who won't even at least try to understand what I'm saying.
Tl;dr, cuck.

Surtur
I never actually said it was across the board when it comes to suicide and I think obviously even if you kill yourself after the transition you are just mentally ill no matter the gender.

I guess the problem is how do you really determine this because we usually find out too late(as in, once the person has killed themselves). Then we just exacerbate these issues by trying to implant this shit onto children. I'm sure you've heard stories of kids being encouraged to just choose a gender. Then we say there are 50 genders. Then we tell teachers not to refer to students as boys or girls. Then we ban words like "man" and on and on and do you just feel this is all heading in the right direction because it seems to be like just a lead up to tragedy.

Frankly I don't care if someone wants to believe in 7000 genders, but when they essentially start indoctrinating little kids into this stuff..I think it's all going out of hand.

Scribble
Kids get gender stuff forced on them all the time and always have, it's not like it's "getting out of hand" because adults have always forced adult worldviews on children. Pink for girls, blue for boys being the most glaring one. Girls wear dresses, boys wear jeans. Etc. Adding to that with all of the new stuff is just as bad. Before you had your gender given to you as a fact, just because now they've added options doesn't make it any better. Let kids figure out who they are without all of these labels, it'll cause less confusion in them and allow people to be more open and happy.

Withsensibility
Im pretty confident gender is something youre born with and if you dont understand that, youre mentally ill.

walshy
I fear this thread has gone... Off topic

Flyattractor
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/000/681/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg

Nuke Nixon
Trump will fix all this.

Scribble
Let's get things back on topic


Twitter

walshy
We could make a collaborative kmc tumblr too why not

Surtur
Originally posted by walshy
We could make a collaborative kmc tumblr too why not

You gotta let this dream die. I mean those crazy kids in the band "98 Degrees" knew when to call it quits.

riv6672
So true.

Nuke Nixon
Originally posted by Nuke Nixon
Trump will fix all this.

Never have I been so wrong.

Flyattractor
Oh sure you have.

riv6672
Originally posted by Nuke Nixon
Never have I been so wrong.
I won't hold it against you. Temporary insanity. Sunspots. Gnomes.
You werent at 100%.

Nuke Nixon
The KMC twitter follows Trump...
https://68.media.tumblr.com/602bd5977a1ee03527ba7850353edbde/tumblr_otbhan1J6m1s9a9yjo1_250.gif

riv6672
You know i couldnt even remember WTF this thread was about.

Nuke Nixon
So much for crowd sourcing social media.

riv6672
Social media. I ****ed it.

Nuke Nixon
If social media were a chick...

Facebook would be that one annoying chick that always wants to know what you're doing, what you're thinking.

Twitter is that chick with no attention span that yaps constantly but doesn't say very much at a time.

Instagram is that chick glued to her phone looking at everyones pictures and taking carefully staged pictures of whatever food she's eating.

Tumblr is that one chick that is always protesting something but later in bed is the freakiest sex fiend ever.

riv6672
Its like the internet Charlie's Angels!!!

Nuke Nixon
Bill Gates can be Charlie.

riv6672
Is he the computer voice guy?

'GOOD. MORN.ING. ANG.ELS.'

Nuke Nixon
That's Stephen Hawking, I guess he could do it too.

riv6672
He could it...all night long!

socool8520
Originally posted by Surtur
You should open up a KMC myspace page.

I thought only musicians used Myspace

Nuke Nixon
No one uses myspace, it's a ghost town. Even Scooby and the Gang wouldn't try to bust those ghosts.

riv6672
ZOINKS!

Nuke Nixon
Myspace is deader than AOL and Geocities combined.

riv6672
I used Geocities!

Nuke Nixon
I had a thing on Angelfire around 97-98.

riv6672
All i recall about AF is it never let me remote link pics.
Dirty bastards.

Nuke Nixon
I don't even remember what my page was about now... maybe something about comics or sci-fi...?

riv6672
My Geocities was about all my fave geek things, too!

Simpler days...yes

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.