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1. Force
2. All-out

Who takes this? Starting distance 20 meters.

Valkorion.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Valkorion.

Come on, let's give some arguments guys.

UnuThul was implied to possess more raw power than Luke himself, and was able to bend back turbolasers with raw telekinesis and initially ragdoll an unsuspecting Luke. He could mentally press Luke with telepathy - Skywalker overcame it with help and support. This powerscaling puts UnuThul pretty solidly above Valkorion, who certainly isn't powerful enough to shove around and almost mentally dominate Luke.

This fits with his character - UnuThul is drawing on the combined potential of trillions.

Yea, nobody's overcoming Valkorion with "telepathy" and unless they have anything that's combat applicable, Valkorion wins.

Yeah, Valkorion has the perfect tools imo to combat UnuThul. I mean if we really want to get into this, there's always Jadus and Nihilus, Valkorion's vast inferiors, pulling off some pretty savage feats.

What tools are that?

If we look at this from powerscaling, UnuThul obviously holds the upper hand in his being able to knock around and nearly dominate Luke.

If we look at their implied power, UnuThul was drawing on the combined potential of trillions of beings - and Jacen himself thought that Luke would be far weaker than him.

If we look at their feats, UnuThul may have fewer in number, but bending back turbolaser bolts, dominating several Jedi at once including Jacen and nearly Luke, and ragdolling said Luke is more impressive than one-shotting Darth Marr.

Well, his own immense TP is perfect to counter Unu's specialty in that regard, and I doubt Valkorion's getting ragdolled.

I'd argue his Ziost feat in a much more weakened state is enough indication that he'd win this fight. And it's not like one shotting Marr is his only feat as Valkorion.

Yeah, Valkorion in a good fight; and Luke's surely stronger than UnuThul.

Ziost was done with at least hours of prep, on a nexus (IIRC) and by absorbing the energies of its entire populace, and it was very probably a variation of the Nathema ritual, .ie a ritual. It's not like Vitiate can just point at Coruscant and destroy it without any prep.

Why can't Valkorion get ragdolled?

You can drop the IIRC--it was a nexus.

....huh? The point of the ritual was to absorb the energy of the populace. What you're saying implies Valk drained the entire populace and then underwent the ritual, (which, by the way, is never stated or implied to be a ritual). He fed off the energies of those that were dying so that he could become powerful enough to perform the Ziost feat, ending all the lives on the planet and consuming their energy along with the energy of the entire planet and it's nexus. The end result is Valkorion.

...because he's too powerful to be ragdolled. An imperial guard drawing on a portion of a pretty far from prime Valkorion's power was able to tank Revan's TK.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
....huh? The point of the ritual was to absorb the energy of the populace. What you're saying implies Valk drained the entire populace and then underwent the ritual, (which, by the way, is never stated or implied to be a ritual). He fed off the energies of those that were dying so that he could become powerful enough to perform the Ziost feat, ending all the lives on the planet and consuming their energy along with the energy of the entire planet and it's nexus. The end result is Valkorion.


It's perfectly reasonable to draw comparisons to Nathema given the incredible similarity of the events, and with Nathema, Vitiate wants to drain the victims but also uses them as energy to do so.

The point is that he can't just do this on a whim, without a nexus, in a fight.



The logical conclusion being that novel Vitiate's own full might should disintegrate Revan, let alone Scourge and Meetra, easil-oooh.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
It's perfectly reasonable to draw comparisons to Nathema given the incredible similarity of the events, and with Nathema, Vitiate wants to drain the victims but also uses them as energy to do so.

The point is that he can't just do this on a whim, without a nexus, in a fight.



The logical conclusion being that novel Vitiate's own full might should disintegrate Revan, let alone Scourge and Meetra, easil-oooh.

1. I'd argue there's a clear difference in how each feat, (I.e. Nathema and Ziost) was carried out. In SWTOR, Vitiate was dormant until the Revanite War had allowed him to feed on enough of the victims of the conflict so that he could travel to Ziost. On Ziost, he does something similar: he mind controls the populace and as people die throughout the conflict, he feeds on them to become more powerful. If it was as simple as using the energy of the populace, he would have done it as soon as he was able to mind control the population. Rather, when enough death was caused from the conflict, he was able to consume enough energy to swamp Ziost in a tsunami of dark side energy, thus commiting genocide on the planet and consuming every last living thing, from the people to the Biota to (presumably) the atmosphere itself. This resulted in Valkorion, a man with the consumed energy of billions and one of the most powerful dark side nexuses in the galaxy coursing through him, along with his haxx as a spirit. It's no wonder he's oneshotted just about everyone he's come across, from Marr to Arcann to the Outlander. It's hard to tell Valkorion's upper limit due to the fact that he hasn't ever really been taxed when at full power, but I'd wager he has what it takes to handle Unu.

2. That's fair, but hardly negates the point that Valkorion is too powerful to be ragdolled by really anyone bar The Ones.

So according to Ellimist, Valkorion creates the nexus, then uses the nexus but he can't use powers A, B, C when he's not on a nexus. Gotcha

I'm not sure where people are getting Valkorion is supposed to be well beyond Vitiate from. Ziost is only said to "revitalize him," and the Force is obviously still present on Ziost.


That being said, he's not losing to UnuThul.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
This powerscaling puts UnuThul pretty solidly above Valkorion, who certainly isn't powerful enough to shove around and almost mentally dominate Luke.

He absolutely is in a first confrontation, in which Luke always struggles with an opponent. Valkorion vs Luke would be a titanic battle between Force users and both would push the other mightily.

Valkorion takes UnuThul. He's the superior Force user and has enough up his sleeve to outmatch Thul.

LMAO.

Valkorion. If your name isn't Luke, or Palpatine --- you aren't beating him.

(Sans Force deities and living planets, of course.)

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
LMAO.

Valkorion. If your name isn't Luke, or Palpatine --- you aren't beating him.

(Sans Force deities and living planets, of course.)

UnuThul channels the Force potential of many planets and trillions of beings. He's really not a conventional Force user.

Valkorion oneshots elite force users like Darth Marr.

What chances does UnU have its not like he can hurt Luke with telepathy or something

Originally posted by The_Tempest
UnuThul channels the Force potential of many planets and trillions of beings. He's really not a conventional Force user.

Trillions on non-force sensitives, sure. When Luke got serious, he didn't stand a chance.

Valkorion also has a lot of abilities I doubt UnuThul has understanding of.

Valkorion should win, yeah.

I think arcing back turbolaser bolts, telepathically dominating scores of Jedi including Jacen, almost mentally dominating Luke, and ragdolling Luke are more impressive than one-shotting Darth Marr. Jacen thought that UnuThul was more powerful than Luke.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. I'd argue there's a clear difference in how each feat, (I.e. Nathema and Ziost) was carried out. In SWTOR, Vitiate was dormant until the Revanite War had allowed him to feed on enough of the victims of the conflict so that he could travel to Ziost. On Ziost, he does something similar: he mind controls the populace and as people die throughout the conflict, he feeds on them to become more powerful. If it was as simple as using the energy of the populace, he would have done it as soon as he was able to mind control the population. Rather, when enough death was caused from the conflict, he was able to consume enough energy to swamp Ziost in a tsunami of dark side energy, thus commiting genocide on the planet and consuming every last living thing, from the people to the Biota to (presumably) the atmosphere itself. This resulted in Valkorion, a man with the consumed energy of billions and one of the most powerful dark side nexuses in the galaxy coursing through him, along with his haxx as a spirit. It's no wonder he's oneshotted just about everyone he's come across, from Marr to Arcann to the Outlander. It's hard to tell Valkorion's upper limit due to the fact that he hasn't ever really been taxed when at full power, but I'd wager he has what it takes to handle Unu.


Ok, so he needed some threshold of energy to pull the feat off in the first place - this still doesn't counter the fact that he didn't pull it off under his own power, and certainly not in the timeframe of a combat.



Even if that were true, I'm not claiming UnuThul will dominate or ragdoll him, just that he'll win, given that he's heavily implied to possess more raw power than Luke.

Prime Luke being a measure stick is okay, but Valkorion is also clearly superior to prime Luke.

Hitler was right

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Hitler was right

You're dumb.

I think after all these years we all know Hitler had it right and it's a shame he didn't finalize his campaign to clean the Europe, but what does it have to do with this thread?

your existence

Such words can be considered slightly offensive

Unlike you with Valkorion, I am kidding. Obviously Hitler was an evil man.

But still Valkorion loses.

Nah. Valkorion > UnuThul > Luke.

I retract my retraction.

He never actually dominated Jacen, he admitted he couldn't do it

I thought Jacen initially answered his call but broke away from it when he was far away, but it's been a while.