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1st form Frieza from RoF vs Fat Buu, who wins??

First form stomps imo. It depends on if Gohan knew what he was talking about in regards to his power level. I think Gohan knows his power level better than anyone. With that said, Frieda stomps with ease.

Yeah, Frieza stomps. Super Boo (Gohan) or Super Vegetto would be a better fight for Frieza, honestly...

Yeah, Freeza should stomp. It was certainly implied that he was already in the upper-echelon of ki the Z Fighters had EVER felt up to that point... And that was before he downed Gohan with a single hit.

Majin Buu basically gave gohan that treatment too though, if I could place Gohans power this would be easier.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Majin Buu basically gave gohan that treatment too though, if I could place Gohans power this would be easier.

This Gohan was said to be more powerful than ever...then he went Super Saiyan and still got dropped and almost killed with a single hit. That's why I said, if we take Gohan statement about his power level as fact, this is a non fight.

>If we take Gohan's statement about his power level as fact
>Gohan himself stated he was weaker in the show

Frieza massacres.

Buu solidly. Gohan was significantly weaker when he fought Frieza in Super as opposed to when he fought Fat Buu. It was a struggle for him to go SS1 as of Super, where he was able to achieve SS2 on a whim as of the 25th World Martial Arts Tournament. Looking at his fight with Tagoma/Ginyu, SS1 Gohan is probably no stronger than Frieza's second form as of Namak. I would rate 1st-form-Frieza as Semi-Perfect Cell tier at best, possibly a bit higher. It would be a decent fight, but Buu wins for sure.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Buu solidly. Gohan was significantly weaker when he fought Frieza in Super as opposed to when he fought Fat Buu. It was a struggle for him to go SS1 as of Super, where he was able to achieve SS2 on a whim as of the 25th World Martial Arts Tournament. Looking at his fight with Tagoma/Ginyu, SS1 Gohan is probably no stronger than Frieza's second form as of Namak. I would rate 1st-form-Frieza as Semi-Perfect Cell tier at best, possibly a bit higher. It would be a decent fight, but Buu wins for sure.

Eh I never watched the DBS retelling of Fukkatsu no F, but Gohan was much weaker in the movie. Did they actually change that in DBS, and Gohan was even stronger when Frieza one-shot him?

I wouldn't say stronger, just more impressive. Plus the movie isn't even canon, so using references from it is pointless.

Okay, but if the series and movie are roughly the same thing, then we can reference the movie all we want, as long as they don't contradict each other.

How was Gohan more impressive in Super than during DBZ? Did he one-shot someone stronger than Super Buu? Because if not, then we still don't know how strong he was. And weren't you the one who just Gohan was significantly weaker in Super than in Z?

I thought you were saying the movie vs Super. No he is much weaker in Super than DBZ, I was saying he is more impressive in Super as opposed to the movie. It is stated that the Tagoma (who was overpowering base-Gohan) had "surpassed the Ginyu Elites," as in a power level of at least over 120,000. This was before Ginyu took his body, seeming to increase his power. I'd scale Tagoma-Ginyu as roughly 1st form Frieza as of Namek (power level of 530,000), so base Gohan in Super is weaker than he was by the end of the Namek Saga.

Gohan is weak in DBS, much weaker than when he was at his peak in DBZ.

With little training he would top himself from DBZ.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Okay, but if the series and movie are roughly the same thing, then we can reference the movie all we want, as long as they don't contradict each other.

How was Gohan more impressive in Super than during DBZ? Did he one-shot someone stronger than Super Buu? Because if not, then we still don't know how strong he was. And weren't you the one who just Gohan was significantly weaker in Super than in Z?

He hung with someone that he himself said was stronger than his mystic self (Gohan did). Nothing points to Gohan being weaker.

Originally posted by carver9
He hung with someone that he himself said was stronger than his mystic self (Gohan did). Nothing points to Gohan being weaker.

I think Gohan not being in shape and not training anymore means he was already weaker. However, I think he could quickly top himself.

Damn near everything was wrong about the power levels in that arc.

Again, Gohan stated that he couldn't bring out his full power because he hadn't been training

He definitely wasn't mystic.

He was close to it though. He matched someone that exceeded Mystic.

Yeah, I hear he said something about Ginyu being close to his old self or something to that extent? The intent should be clear, but that he could barely go super saiyan and then whips his ass when he does go super saiyan doesn't make things very clear.

It's super-weird that he lost so much power after what? Less than a year?

What he said about Tagoma/Ginyu doesn't make much sense either... some make theories that he mixed SSJ with the Mystic form like in GT to match him...

Toriyama failed there big time, the worst part was Kamesennin being equal to/slightly inferior to Krillin... being in a fight he had no business being in... and tutoring Krillin like in the old times all of a sudden.

I miss GT.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Yeah, I hear he said something about Ginyu being close to his old self or something to that extent? The intent should be clear, but that he could barely go super saiyan and then whips his ass when he does go super saiyan doesn't make things very clear.

Gohan never said anything like that about Tagoma-Ginyu, and if you actually take the time to observe the statements made for power scaling, I found it mainly points to Tagoma-Ginyu being roughly equal to 2nd form Frieza as of Namak. It's not realistic that he would lose so much power, but it makes sense that he would given that he stated that he lost the ability to tap into his power like he used to. It's like not being able to open a lid all the way, you might be able to get it to open a jar to have the contents leak out, but you don't get much of anything from it at all.

But... it makes no sense still. Sure, Gohan wasn't at his best (to put it lightly, if he dropped so much in power), okay, but what about other guys that were present? Kamiccolo should've beaten the living shit out of Tagoma then.

I feel it's for the best to give up analyzing that arc.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Gohan never said anything like that about Tagoma-Ginyu, and if you actually take the time to observe the statements made for power scaling, I found it mainly points to Tagoma-Ginyu being roughly equal to 2nd form Frieza as of Namak. It's not realistic that he would lose so much power, but it makes sense that he would given that he stated that he lost the ability to tap into his power like he used to. It's like not being able to open a lid all the way, you might be able to get it to open a jar to have the contents leak out, but you don't get much of anything from it at all.

Gohan said that he/Tagoma is more powerful than him at his best. Seems pretty clear to me.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's super-weird that he lost so much power after what? Less than a year?

I think he didn't lose any power, he just wasn't in shape and that made him weaker.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Gohan never said anything like that about Tagoma-Ginyu, and if you actually take the time to observe the statements made for power scaling, I found it mainly points to Tagoma-Ginyu being roughly equal to 2nd form Frieza as of Namak. It's not realistic that he would lose so much power, but it makes sense that he would given that he stated that he lost the ability to tap into his power like he used to. It's like not being able to open a lid all the way, you might be able to get it to open a jar to have the contents leak out, but you don't get much of anything from it at all.

No he did, you'd know that if you took the time to observe it.

That's obviously not correct.

Could I get a quote then? I just went back through the episodes and he never said anything beyond "he's strong" regarding both Frieza and Tagoma-Ginyu. If you're referring to the movie (which isn't cannon), that's a completely different matter.

Tagoma died at the beginning of the movie.

Not interested enough to look through it. It should just be when they fight during a pause or something.

I've never seen the quote either; only Gohan saying that he couldn't draw out his full power because he hadn't been training.

That said, the fact that Tagoma could rape Piccolo with ease, combined with the fact that the kids didn't seem to think they could take him on without fusion, leads me to believe that he's at least SSJ2 level. It was implied that he was much weaker than SSJ Gotenks, though.

Either way, First Form Frieza should stomp; Boo's regeneration should allow him to put up a fight, but his power is on a different level... Super Boohan would have been a better match for Frieza.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Tagoma died at the beginning of the movie.

Not interested enough to look through it. It should just be when they fight during a pause or something.

Movie ain't cannon bro