Darth Vader vs. Exar Kun

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The Ellimist
I've been conflicted about this for a while.

Darth Vader has been sent by his master to take out the newly reincarnated Exar Kun. They meet on flat plains, starting 10 meters apart. Both are at their peaks.

1. Force
2. Sabers
3. All-out

Bonus round: they team up against RotS and RotJ Sidious in separate scenarios.


EDIT: no amulets for Kun, but if having amulets would tip the scales you can discuss that

MythLord
Kun. Make it Sidious and then it'll be close.

Beniboybling
When the Kun wankers have him in the same tier as Sidious, I don't see why they think this is a debate. erm

MythLord
Originally posted by Beniboybling
When the Kun wankers have him in the same tier as Sidious, I don't see why they think this is a debate. erm

Because it isn't a debate thumb up
Exar stomps smile

Deronn_solo
Vader sweeps.

SunRazer
Kun takes Force at least, IMO.

chingchangwalla
Peak Exar Kun with AMulets and shit vs ROTS Sidious would be a good one

SunRazer
And together, they triumph over RotS Sidious and likely RotJ Sidious as well.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Peak Exar Kun with AMulets and shit vs ROTS Sidious would be a good one

Not really.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Vader sweeps.

AncientPower
Exar Kun in all, but it'd be significantly more difficult without the amulet. In bonus they take Sidious both times.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by SunRazer
Kun takes Force at least, IMO.
Based on what? Getting shoved by old ass Jedi Masters, and the inability to kill Keto with a Force blast?

Vader cracks Kun's skull with repeated TK shots.

AncientPower
*shrugging off the most masterful sever Force practitioner in the mythos.
*He was disinterested in Keto, going for Ulic and was shortly after shining with more power than Keto had ever weilded.

Gr8 b8 m8.

Deronn_solo
- If only Sever Force had any correlation to TK whatsoever. thumb up

-So what? He had no reason to keep her alive --- and even a casual blast should have killed since you guys love to take that Massassi amped temple feat at face-value. Also, having more power than a relative scrub like her doesn't really mean shit, or undermine my point.

Not b8, only truth. smile

AncientPower
If only the text didn't state that's exactly what Odan-Urr attacked him with before Kun one-shotted the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy. Far before his prime. laughing out loud

He legit just absorbed her disintegrating sorcery attack and flattened her in turn. Far before his prime. Kun states he can ash enemies whenever he whims in the TOTJ audiodrama, clearly he has no interest in focusing his powers on Keto with the far more powerful Ulic right there.

Kun was very far away from his prime, so even accounting for an amplification from the temple, such an amp can't even begin to compare to how much power Exar Kun gained in the years following that. But thanks for reminding everbody that Exar Kun's blasts can ash Massassi, blow chunks out of parts of a temple and rip a gargantuan Sith wyrm in half.

Exar Kun as a weakened spirit stomped Master Luke with sorcery through Kyp Durron. Master Luke who is even stronger and more masterful than DE Luke who'd already surpassed ROTJ Vader in the six years leading to Dark Empire.

chingchangwalla
Originally posted by AncientPower
If only the text didn't state that's exactly what Odan-Urr attacked him with before Kun one-shotted the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy. Far before his prime. laughing out loud

He legit just absorbed her disintegrating sorcery attack and flattened her in turn. Far before his prime. Kun states he can ash enemies whenever he whims in the TOTJ audiodrama, clearly he has no interest in focusing his powers on Keto with the far more powerful Ulic right there.

Kun was very far away from his prime, so even accounting for an amplification from the temple, such an amp can't even begin to compare to how much power Exar Kun gained in the years following that. But thanks for reminding everbody that Exar Kun's blasts can ash Massassi, blow chunks out of parts of a temple and rip a gargantuan Sith wyrm in half.

Exar Kun as a weakened spirit stomped Master Luke with sorcery through Kyp Durron. Master Luke who is even stronger and more masterful than DE Luke who'd already surpassed ROTJ Vader in the six years leading to Dark Empire.

I like this.

Deronn_solo
You're easily impressed, LMAO.

chingchangwalla
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
You're easily impressed, LMAO.

smile I must be

Petrus
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
You're easily impressed, LMAO.

Being impressed by Exar Kun is hardly embarrassing, tbfh.

Syndicate
Exar Kun.

Team.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
smile I must be Originally posted by Petrus
Being impressed by Exar Kun is hardly embarrassing, tbfh.

Actually, yeah it is. But more importantly, being impressed with AP's half-assed and all fake summaries shows how low you really are on the ladder.

Petrus
He hasn't been around that long. Give him a break. smile

And your opinion on Kun is something else.

FreshestSlice
No.

Go ahead and explain just what exactly my opinion of Kun is.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Gimme Kun. Honestly, I'm much more impressed with Kun one shotting Nadd's Spirit so far before his prime than most people are.

Petrus
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No.

Go ahead and explain just what exactly my opinion of Kun is.

You're so mean. sad


Well, if you're not impressed by his feats, power, etc. I'm guessing you rank him lower than most ppl here?

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Gimme Kun. Honestly, I'm much more impressed with Kun one shotting Nadd's Spirit so far before his prime than most people are.

Vader ragdolling Starkiller >

carthage
Vader wins.

Exar lacks any non circumstantial force feat that places him above Vader in power. Never mind he paralyzed a bunch of non force sensitives, Vader doesn't have anything on that level

Deronn_solo
Scan? 'Cause I don't recall anything indicating that it was Force Light/Sever that shoved Kun silly, KEK.



Gewd for Exar. Starkiller has taken out a horde of powerful Force sensitive with a telekinetic surge ---- Vader was an equal to 'Killer, before becoming "far more formidable" in ESB, and further reaching the pinnacle of his power in RotJ. So yeah, Kun's TK isn't shit next to Vader's. thumb up



So, he needs concentration to take out a scrub like Keto? Heck, Exar didn't even do any real damage to her whatsoever. Fact of the matter is, Exar had no reason to keep Aleema alive, and his intent was to kill both her and Ulic, yet his Force blast only momentarily dazed her.







You keep throwing this "before his prime" malarkey around as if it's supposed to prove something, it doesn't. Given Kun has no feats, or statements whatsoever that proves he can replicate those Force blast showings without being amped to a significant degree, than I'm not buying it.

Of course, I'm very liberal in my views so if you can form a case for why this "before prime" jazz means a something of substance, besides an arbitrary throw-away words, I'd gladly change my views in a heart beat, dear.



Good for Exar; it's worth noting that Luke never attempted to fight back, and that, as far as I know, Luke had like zero experience with sorcery at the time. You know, it's kinda hard to counter something when you're completely ignorant on the subject, therefore how to combat it. Luckily, Vader has studied sorcery to a significant degree himself, and even knew how to conjure beast of pure DS power that are invulnerable to blaster bolts, and completely drain Force sensitive of their life force.



Except, Luke has zero feats/accolades that place him above Vader at that time, LMAO. In fact, Palpatine makes it clear on DE that with further training, Luke COULD surpass Vader, implying he wasn't there yet. Now, of course you CAN make a case that Luke was > Vader --- but it's far from clear cut as you guys seem to make it to be.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Vader has studied sorcery to a significant degree himself, and even knew how to conjure beast of pure DS power that are invulnerable to blaster bolts, and completely drain Force sensitive of their life force.


He does? Where was this?

Syndicate
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Vader ragdolling Starkiller >

We're taking contradicted cutscenes now?

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Syndicate
We're taking contradicted cutscenes now?

After the "Vader can't ragdoll Meetra" debate I'm not gona go into this again with an other wanker. Sorry fuggot.

MythLord
Originally posted by Zenwolf
He does? Where was this?
It was in Star Wars Annual 1. Kharys summons those demons, and the comic notes she only has a portion of Vader's power and knowledge.

Syndicate
I'm just arguing against using failed logic to support your arguments.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by MythLord
It was in Star Wars Annual 1. Kharys summons those demons, and the comic notes she only has a portion of Vader's power and knowledge.

Later sources also indicate that Vader taught her everything she knows, IIRC.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Syndicate
I'm just arguing against using failed logic to support your arguments.

It's hardly failed. It's a scripted event in the game, pretty much a cutscene. It's also supported by various accolades of Vader, as well as the TFU II novel which indicates Vader whooped Starkiller's ass while holding back.

You just keep on wanking tho boy thumb up

Zenwolf
Well I thought you meant that he summoned one somewhere. But yeah, reading that issue now and I see.

Syndicate
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
It's hardly failed. It's a scripted event in the game, pretty much a cutscene. It's also supported by various accolades of Vader, as well as the TFU II novel which indicates Vader whooped Starkiller's ass while holding back.

You just keep on wanking tho boy thumb up

If that's your stance I won't argue against it though you should know the other game versions don't have such an event occur thus making it a contradicted event. But does that mean you take scripted events like this one seriously?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8MVtBu0Cuk

4:35-4:45

This occurs in the same version where Starkiller is ragdolled.

Aside from that there is no official accolade placing Vader as Starkiller's superior only an interview by a voice actor. In the TFUII novel Vader never shows superiority in the Force only frustrating Starkiller's attempted lightsaber offensives while Juno lay dying. Something I'm sure you can agree affected how Starkiller fought Vader as he even muses to himself that he wouldn't be able to defeat Vader before Juno was dead if she wasn't dead already by that point which is ultimately what caused him to attempt to get Vader to lower his guard.

vox
Originally posted by carthage
Vader wins.

Exar lacks any non circumstantial force feat that places him above Vader in power. Never mind he paralyzed a bunch of non force sensitives, Vader doesn't have anything on that level

Sarcasm?

If not, this is completely wrong, In the chamber scene, he casts a sith spell all the jedi in the senate room along with the senators. The strongest of the Jedi order was there, such as Nomi Sunrider, Cay El-Droma etc.

Additionally, I can name at least 3 or so force/sorcery feats that Kun has over Vader.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Syndicate
If that's your stance I won't argue against it ( though you should know the other game versions don't have this event occur ) thus making it a contradicted event.

Sources of similar canon level can't contradict each other, they simply tell an other side of the story. Or it's a retcon, which I doubt 1 game would do to another.

Originally posted by Syndicate
But does that mean you take scripted events like this one seriously?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8MVtBu0Cuk

4:35-4:45

This occurs in the same version where Starkiller is ragdolled.

He already did similar in the TFU comic so why not. I only disragard the QTEs.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by vox
Additionally, I can name at least 3 or so force/sorcery feats that Kun has over Vader.

I can list a dozen Vader feats beyond non-nexus, non-amulet Exar thumb up

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Well I thought you meant that he summoned one somewhere. But yeah, reading that issue now and I see.
Well, not on panel, but given he factually taught it to Kharys, he had to have summon one as a demonstration at some point in time.


It really hammers home the point that Vader isn't just all TK like most think, kek.

Syndicate
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Sources of similar canon level can't contradict each other, they simply tell an other side of the story. Or it's a retcon, which I doubt 1 game would do to another.



He already did similar in the TFU comic so why not. I only disragard the QTEs.

What's your stances on scenes like the ISD and Galen blasting Sidious in TFU where in ALL versions he's shown doing this ( including the comic in regards to Sidious )? Do you take them as his actual capabilities?

Also in regards to TFUII what happens if the linear cutscenes in different versions of the game directly contradict each other as is the case?

Fair enough to your last one.

vox
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I can list a dozen Vader feats beyond non-nexus, non-amulet Exar thumb up

But amulets became part of exar kun's power lol.

Gradually, Kun stated that he began to need Amulets less and less, and instead relied more on himself.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Syndicate
What's your stances on scenes like the ISD and Galen blasting Sidious in TFU where in ALL versions he's shown doing this ( including the comic in regards to Sidious )? Do you take them as his actual capabilities?

For the ISD, he redirected it. As for Sidious, he was jobbing on purpose.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Also in regards to TFUII what happens if the linear cutscenes in different versions of the game directly contradict each other as is the case?

Such as?

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by vox
But amulets became part of exar kun's power lol.

Gradually, Kun stated that he began to need Amulets less and less, and instead relied more on himself.

He still used it.

Syndicate
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
For the ISD, he redirected it. As for Sidious, he was jobbing on purpose.



Such as?

All versions of the game show that his redirection of the ISD was on a greater scale then what was described in the novel. What do you think about this contradiction?

Alright.

When Galen is arriving on the platform and is ragdolled by Vader in the Xbox version ( I believe it's the Xbox version ) the in game fight begins. In the Wii version you simply take a lift before it cuts to a cut scene of Vader showing he has Juno as a hostage and then the clone charging and the in game fight starting.

MS Warehouse
How is this still a debate? Vader gets iguodala'd

Deronn_solo
Just because you believe in that cancer, doesn't mean that people working with fully functional brains should.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Well, not on panel, but given he factually taught it to Kharys, he had to have summon one as a demonstration at some point in time.


It really hammers home the point that Vader isn't just all TK like most think, kek.

True, although that was like way back when, I could think of a few instances where a near invincible dark side creature would have came in handy.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
How is this still a debate? Vader gets iguodala'd

laughing out loud

Exar takes Vader, yeah.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by vox
Gradually, Kun stated that he began to need Amulets less and less, and instead relied more on himself.

S & Q?

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Syndicate
All versions of the game show that his redirection of the ISD was on a greater scale then what was described in the novel. What do you think about this contradiction?

It's been a while since I played that part so no comment.

Originally posted by Syndicate
When Galen is arriving on the platform and is ragdolled by Vader in the Xbox version ( I believe it's the Xbox version ) the in game fight begins. In the Wii version you simply take a lift before it cuts to a cut scene of Vader showing he has Juno as a hostage and then the clone charging and the in game fight starting.

Like I said, different interpretations of the fight. Like how Galen and Shaak only dueled in the novel, while they had a force exchange in the comic. Or how Dooku choked Kenobi in the junior novel, but only force pushed him in the normal novel.

I don't hold either in higher regard than the other. Galen taking the elevator in one description in the fight, while getting Force Gripped in the other hardly means Vader can't ragdoll him. Only that he choose not to in the elevator scene.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
laughing out loud

Exar takes Vader, yeah.

You have now been demoted to shit tier Skillz. Congratulations.

Deronn_solo
thumb up

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Neither of you are reasonably allowed to make that decision. smile

Deronn_solo
Yeah, we are. You ancient Sith dick-riding, has reached unprecedented levels.

I'm just waiting for you to put Marka Ragnos > Darth Caedus, tbh.

cs_zoltan
DC was a debater when you couldn't even walk kid. Respect your elders.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by NewGuy01
S & Q?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Kun > Vader has never been an inconceivable notion, nor am I wanking ancient Sith to unprecedented levels. Stick to Football. smile

The Ellimist
1. Force: Vader's feats suggest that he has the edge in raw power, but Exar's sorcery is potent enough to overwhelm JA Luke even as a weakened spirit (and I still think it's implied that full power Kun > spirit Kun + Kyp), so I'd give him the win.

2. Sabers: Vader prob has Force augmentation, Kun has mobility, skill is difficult to discern as both were prodigies, but honestly Anakin seems more prodigious, having pressed Dooku as a padawan and then surpassed him in like three years, etc.

3. All-out: Exar probably wins with his sorcery, if it was enough to take out Luke that easily, but Vader still has a shot if he counters with his telekinesis and then rushes him. Still, for now I'm sticking with Exar for a slight majority.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
DC was a debater when you couldn't even walk kid. Respect your elders.

I'm supposed to care about how long one has been debating fiction? laughing out loud

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Hey look, Ellimist is an unprecedented ancient Sith wanker smilesmilesmile

The Ellimist
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I'm supposed to care about how long one has been debating fiction? laughing out loud

You care about a bunch of tall guys shooting hoops through a basket in an imaginary game. smile

cs_zoltan
>Exar never won a duel through sorcery
>People think Vader would fall to it

It's time for a new genocide.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
>Exar never won a duel through sorcery


He beat Luke though.

If it weren't for Jedi Academy, I'd put Exar around Dooku tier. But that series did happen.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by The Ellimist
You care about a bunch of tall guys shooting hoops through a basket in an imaginary game. smile

Imaginary?

Though I do admit NBA 2k is quite fun. smile

The Ellimist
Then again, Desean (?) beat Luke, so maybe I'm placing too much weight on defeating the The Jobber One.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Imaginary?

Though I do admit NBA 2k is quite fun. smile

I mean, the points and teams and everything are not much more real than Star Wars. We invent them and pretend they exist for our amusement. smile

Syndicate
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
It's been a while since I played that part so no comment.



Like I said, different interpretations of the fight. Like how Galen and Shaak only dueled in the novel, while they had a force exchange in the comic. Or how Dooku choked Kenobi in the junior novel, but only force pushed him in the normal novel.

I don't hold either in higher regard than the other. Galen taking the elevator in one description in the fight, while getting Force Gripped in the other hardly means Vader can't ragdoll him. Only that he choose not to in the elevator scene.

Alright.

But the scene in the Wii version doesn't cut. It just has Galen straight up charging Vader and the fight starting while in the other version he's ragdolled before the fight starts. The two are contradictory. Not to mention if Vader was capable of doing that why didn't he simply just subdue Galen with the Force from the outset?

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by The Ellimist
He beat Luke though.

If it weren't for Jedi Academy, I'd put Exar around Dooku tier. But that series did happen.

Exar in Kyp's body on a potent dark side nexus.

Bane just got an erection.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by The Ellimist
1. Force: Vader's feats suggest that he has the edge in raw power, but Exar's sorcery is potent enough to overwhelm JA Luke even as a weakened spirit (and I still think it's implied that full power Kun > spirit Kun + Kyp), so I'd give him the win.

But that victory was attributed to the fact that Luke lacked knowledge regarding Sith sorcery, and thus had no means of defending against it. Odds are Vader doesn't share this weakness.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The key being that they do indeed exist in our universe. The force doesn't. smile

The Ellimist
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Exar in Kyp's body on a potent dark side nexus.


Still heavily suggested in multiple sources to be weaker than his living form.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Kun > Vader has never been an inconceivable notion, nor am I wanking ancient Sith to unprecedented levels. Stick to Football. smile

Never said it was an "inconceivable notion", but acting as if Exar is the head and shoulders favorite without question, is retarded.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
nor am I wanking ancient Sith to unprecedented levels.

Oh, really? Ludo Kressh vs Count Dooku; who wins? mmm

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Stick to Football. smile

Fugg. Are you ready for some football? smile

The Ellimist
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The key being that they do indeed exist in our universe. The force doesn't. smile

But the words on our pages and the stories they form "exist" in the sense that they're logical constructs that we can analyze, sort of like the construct of a bunch of points and a set of rules. smile

Football is better

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by The Ellimist
You care about a bunch of tall guys shooting hoops through a basket in an imaginary game. smile

No no, the game is real, your little star wars isn't.

Syndicate
Originally posted by Syndicate
Alright.

But the scene in the Wii version doesn't cut. It just has Galen straight up charging Vader and the fight starting while in the other version he's ragdolled before the fight starts. The two are contradictory. Not to mention if Vader was capable of doing that why didn't he simply just subdue Galen with the Force from the outset?

The Ellimist
Originally posted by NewGuy01
But that victory was attributed to the fact that Luke lacked knowledge regarding Sith sorcery, and thus had no means of defending against it. Odds are Vader doesn't share this weakness.

Is there any evidence that Vader studied sorcery? In either case, I'm not sure if there is a reliable defense against those tendrils - Bane knew that Zannah was gonna use them and all he could do was power through them.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Nigga, literally all I said was that Kun takes Vader. I never once even remotely implied it was inarguable. smile

2. Ludo is the weakest of the ancients, Dooku. Sadow takes Dooku, though. smile

3. I'm always ready for Aaron Rodgers to penetrate my anus. smile

NewGuy01
Frankly other than their generic appearance, there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence pointing towards them being the same technique to begin with. Their actual effects were vastly different, for instance. thumb up

The Ellimist
So Zannah's were better and harder to defend against? Seems difficult to believe.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Nigga, literally all I said was that Kun takes Vader. I never once even remotely implied it was inarguable. smile

2. Ludo is the weakest of the ancients, Dooku. Sadow takes Dooku, though. smile

3. I'm always ready for Aaron Rodgers to penetrate my anus. smile
http://i.imgur.com/cs0gM24.gif



With all this gross ancient wank.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by The Ellimist
But the words on our pages and the stories they form "exist" in the sense that they're logical constructs that we can analyze, sort of like the construct of a bunch of points and a set of rules. smile

Football is better

I'll just go ahead and...smile

basketball analytics are more fun to toy around with. I know that you're an Aaron Rodgers wanker. What's your favorite team?

Deronn_solo
1. Fair enough. smile
2. ^^ smile
3. Aaron Rodgers is the LeBron James of the NFL, tbh. smile

The Ellimist
I'm a Browns fan, even though I've never lived in Cleveland. My grandpa lives in Canada and he was a bandwagon Browns fan back when they were good, and it stuck, and passed down the family.

But really, I bandwagon the Patriots because that seems like more fun.

And I hate the f*cking Cowboys.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by The Ellimist
So Zannah's were better and harder to defend against? Seems difficult to believe.

Hardly. Exar's tendrils were stated to be illusions; the only physical effect they could be argued to have had was short-circuiting electronics.

Zannah's tendrils were manifestations of dark side energy that could disintegrate flesh.

How are they at all similar?

The Ellimist
I just don't want to admit that Zannah could be better than someone at something.

If that's true, then I'm not sure, it really depends on whether you can guess that Vader knew about this sorcery somehow.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I'm a Browns fan

I'm so, so sorry.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Syndicate
Not to mention if Vader was capable of doing that why didn't he simply just subdue Galen with the Force from the outset?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8550447&postcount=5038

The Ellimist
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I'm so, so sorry.

sad

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Is there any evidence that Vader studied sorcery? In either case, I'm not sure if there is a reliable defense against those tendrils - Bane knew that Zannah was gonna use them and all he could do was power through them.

Bane is an inept sorcerer tho.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8550447&postcount=5038

Solid post, tbh. thumb up

FreshestSlice
Nah, it only seems that way because Beni makes so few posts actually worth reading.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Bane is an inept sorcerer tho.

When has Vader ever done anything sorcery related?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by The Ellimist
sad

What are your thoughts on KD to GSW? smile

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nah, it only seems that way because Beni makes so few posts actually worth reading.

You ever get tired of screaming about ancient sith wank while ignoring OT/PT wank?

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nah, it only seems that way because Beni makes so few posts actually worth reading.
laughing

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
You ever get tired of screaming about ancient sith wank while ignoring OT/PT wank?
Beni doesn't wank ancients, far from it, and I don't talk about OT/PT wank because most of the people who did that are either gone or obvious trolls. Also, screaming? Lulz.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by The Ellimist
When has Vader ever done anything sorcery related?

Did you even read this thread?

The Ellimist
Bleh, that doesn't prove he has some defense against tendrils nobody has ever mentioned.

But I welcome the modern support.

Deronn_solo
No, but it does prove he has extensive knowledge on sorcery. Better than what Luke had at that moment, which, is little to none. Not to mention, Vader would actually be fighting back and pushing Exar, rather than just trying to defend like the aforesaid Jedi did.

The Ellimist
That's true. I guess it depends on how Vader can defend against that sorcery relative to how Exar can defend against his TK and his attempts to engage in melee.

NewGuy01
I actually would call it "Luke's weakness" more than anything. Especially in his earlier incarnations, Luke's unique in that he's powerful, but there are gaps in his knowledge/training that put him at a distinct disadvantage compared to other Jedi of his level.

For instance, it's implied he didn't even know how to properly defend himself against a telekinetic choke until Dark Empire.

If it were, for instance, Yoda facing Exar Kun, I doubt he would have had any difficulty with the assault.

The Ellimist
mmm Yes, I do enjoy these possibilities. I'm not sure if I wanna lowball Luke or establish the precedent of ancients having an advantage from their sorcery - but I guess this doesn't really apply to peak Luke, and most upper-tier moderns will have studied those arts anyway, so I'm fine. smile

Syndicate
Alright.

But the scene in the Wii version doesn't cut. It just has Galen straight up charging Vader and the fight starting while in the other version he's ragdolled before the fight starts. The two are contradictory. Not to mention if Vader was capable of doing that why didn't he simply just subdue Galen with the Force from the outset?

@CSZoltan

cs_zoltan
Wtf? I already answered that.

carthage
Exar's best sorcery related feats either involve prep/or a nexus and his one feat with it couldn't even affect force sensitives in the senate.

So pardon me for not quaking in my boots when someone brings up SORCERY as some advantage Exar has over Vader.

Syndicate
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Wtf? I already answered that.

I'm sorry I must have missed it. Can you quote your response or tell me which page its on?

cs_zoltan
You lazy ****ing **** shithead dick gay ****** *******.

cs_zoltan
http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8550447&postcount=5038

Ziggystardust
Two types of people in this thread.

1.People who think Exar wins
2. People who think Exar wins but don't want to admit it.

OT : Vader wins via sith sorcery

Syndicate
?

You just gave me a link to a post by Beni.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Syndicate
?

You just gave me a link to a post by Beni.

Which explains why Vader is superior and why he didn't **** up Starkiller from the start....

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Two types of people in this thread.

1.People who think Exar wins
2. People who think Exar wins but don't want to admit it.

OT : Vader wins via sith sorcery

3. Illiterate fuggot Ziggy

Ziggystardust
As fan of the blunt persona, you sound a little more agitated than usual Zoltan.

I hope Vader isn't your favourite character, in which case I truly apologise.

Syndicate
You're not making your own arguments now?

Anyways as I already said to you the Wii and Xbox version contradict each other making the gif he provided as evidence for his claims null. Also unlike Beni I do not feel the opinion of a voice actor has any bearing on circumstances as they were presented in the game. Furthermore the Darkside ending is non canon and like Witwer's opinion has no bearing on the circumstances of Galen and Vader's fight. As I mentioned the fight portrays Vader and Starkiller as peers with Starkiller unable to make any headway against Vader when the latter is fighting cautiously and Vader demonstrating his ability to press Starkiller at certain points in the fight most notably after Starkiller "hits a nerve." His point about Starkiller not being able to respond to Vader's strike is obviously incorrect given he let loose a burst of lightning on Vader's exposed side. There's no reason he couldn't have simply lifted a blade to have blocked the strike if he'd so chosen. Starkiller wisely took Vader's opening as an opportunity to halt the Dark Lord's offensive.

Ziggystardust
Originally posted by Syndicate
You're not making your own arguments now?

Anyways as I already said to you the Wii and Xbox version contradict each other making the gif he provided as evidence for his claims null. Also unlike Beni I do not feel the opinion of a voice actor has any bearing on circumstances as they were presented in the game. Furthermore the Darkside ending is non canon and like Witwer's opinion has no bearing on the circumstances of Galen and Vader's fight. As I mentioned the fight portrays Vader and Starkiller as peers with Starkiller unable to make any headway against Vader when the latter is fighting cautiously and Vader demonstrating his ability to press Starkiller at certain points in the fight most notably after Starkiller "hits a nerve." His point about Starkiller not being able to respond to Vader's strike is obviously incorrect given he let loose a burst of lightning on Vader's exposed side. There's no reason he couldn't have simply lifted a blade to have blocked the strike if he'd so chosen. Starkiller wisely took Vader's opening as an opportunity to halt the Dark Lord's defensive.

This is the problem with having a favourite character. People know where to poke your weakspots, and get you riled up. You should scarcely wank your favourite character and do so at spread out intervals.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
ReTweet

Syndicate
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
This is the problem with having a favourite character. People know where to poke your weakspots, and get you riled up. You should scarcely wank your favourite character and do so at spread out intervals.

I don't care about Starkiller. Only Galen. I only care about SK insofar as to protect the original template's rep.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
As fan of the blunt persona, you sound a little more agitated than usual Zoltan.

I hope Vader isn't your favourite character, in which case I truly apologise.

Not even my top 5.

Ziggystardust
You shouldn't be doing either.

You should never defend your favourite. What you should do instead, is attack the opposing character or team pitted against. You have the added benefit of offending other people that way. Never, under any circumstance, attempt to defend what you've said; just attack the other person's argument over and over and over until one of you dies of old age or some legislative branch agrees to shut down the Internet forever. Defending yourself or your argument is a weak act of desperation which informs your enemy that you're completely open to attack.

Edit: before Zoltan

AncientPower
The sheer amount nexus and amulet wank from the PT brigade is just disgusting, I'll see to this soon.

Syndicate
But how can I attack Vader when Galen is directly scaled off of him?

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by AncientPower
The sheer amount nexus and amulet wank from the PT brigade is just disgusting, I'll see to this soon.

Don't you mean Exar fuggs wank his nexus and amulet feats, while the sane ones see beyond circumstances?

Ziggystardust
Technically, Vader gets a power boost from Sidious and Plageuis' Force unbalancing towards the darkside. So essentially, all his feats are amped by a galactic nexus of darkside energy. We can then assume he's doubly amped, as all the Jedi he faced were hindered - according to Mace windu.

NewGuy01
Actually, that was recently debunked by a quote I believe was from Force & Destiny. The only thing the imbalance did to the Jedi was cloud their ability to see into the future.

carthage
Exar can't even hurt force sensitives with his senate feat but his sorcery can somehow hurt Vader. Great logic.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
DARKSEID

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Technically, Vader gets a power boost from Sidious and Plageuis' Force unbalancing towards the darkside. So essentially, all his feats are amped by a galactic nexus of darkside energy. We can then assume he's doubly amped, as all the Jedi he faced were hindered - according to Mace windu.

https://media.giphy.com/media/jQmVFypWInKCc/giphy.gif

Ziggystardust
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Actually, that was recently debunked by a quote I believe was from Force & Destiny. The only thing the imbalance did to the Jedi was cloud their ability to see into the future.

"Our ability to use the force has been diminished."

- Mace Windu, Attack of the Clones

Do you want to tell me what part of that statement refers exclusively to force sensing?

Do you also want me to explain to the hierarchy of Canon, and where abouts Force & Destiny comes under the films?

Face the facts, every single feat the sith from the OT/PT performed would be influenced by such a setting. All their feats were performed on a Darkside Nexus.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Actually, that was recently debunked by a quote I believe was from Force & Destiny. The only thing the imbalance did to the Jedi was cloud their ability to see into the future.

I was about to warn you not to actually make any serious reply to this imbecile, but he made my point himself, thanks Ziggy thumb up

Ziggystardust
Zoltan is definitely upset.

cs_zoltan
I'm upset I gotta be bald for 8 months thanks to the chemotherapy you put me through.

Ziggystardust
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I'm upset I gotta be bald for 8 months thanks to the chemotherapy you put me through.

... You realise that would be the treatment to cancer?

SunRazer
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Based on what? Getting shoved by old ass Jedi Masters, and the inability to kill Keto with a Force blast?

Vader cracks Kun's skull with repeated TK shots.

Old ass Jedi Masters? Like An'ya Kuro? Kun killed Odan-Urr within a page, including a panel where he was cheap-shotted by the latter, whilst Vader struggled against the Dark Woman for several pages.

Kun's weakened spirit, in conjunction with an undeveloped Kyp Durron, absolutely wrecked post-DE Luke. Likewise, he incinerated Gantoris and Choked the entire Jedi entourage as a weakened spirit.

Long before reaching his prime (and yes, I'm aware he was enraged and on Yavin IV), his Force Blasts also annihilated Freedon Nadd's Spirit and shattered a sizeable portion of the Massassi Temple, taking down a Sith Wyrm and numerous Massassi warriors in the process.

lol @ Vader cracking the skull of someone more powerful than the Ancient Sith - Sadow, Nadd, Ragnos, Muur, etc. He's also far more powerful than any Jedi at the time - including Thon, who trapped Ambria's dark side energies inside Lake Naath. Kun cracks Vader's plastic armor with Force Blasts.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
... You realise that would be the treatment to cancer?

Now you really shined light on how much of an idiot you are.

>I don't like to be bald
>You gave me cancer
>I'm doing chemotherapy because of you

Kill yourself pls.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by SunRazer
Old ass Jedi Masters? Like An'ya Kuro? Kun killed Odan-Urr within a page, including a panel where he was cheap-shotted by the latter, whilst Vader struggled against the Dark Woman for several pages.

Kun's weakened spirit, in conjunction with an undeveloped Kyp Durron, absolutely wrecked post-DE Luke. Likewise, he incinerated Gantoris and Choked the entire Jedi entourage as a weakened spirit.

Long before reaching his prime (and yes, I'm aware he was enraged and on Yavin IV), his Force Blasts also annihilated Freedon Nadd's Spirit and shattered a sizeable portion of the Massassi Temple, taking down a Sith Wyrm and numerous Massassi warriors in the process.

lol @ Vader cracking the skull of someone more powerful than the Ancient Sith - Sadow, Nadd, Ragnos, Muur, etc. He's also far more powerful than any Jedi at the time - including Thon, who trapped Ambria's dark side energies inside Lake Naath. Kun cracks Vader's plastic armor with Force Blasts.

Starkiller > Kun, Vader ragdolls.

The Ellimist
Lol at falling Vader's armor "plastic", as if it weren't lightsaber resistant.

Ziggystardust
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Now you really shined light on how much of an idiot you are.

>I don't like to be bald
>You gave me cancer
>I'm doing chemotherapy because of you

Kill yourself pls. Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Starkiller > Kun, Vader ragdolls.

@Sydicate, if you're reading this, this is why it's better to attack the opposing team, rather than defend the character you like.

Zoltan's practically vomiting salt at this point, all because we poked his favourite character.

SunRazer
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lol at falling Vader's armor "plastic", as if it weren't lightsaber resistant.

Nah, that's the part where DC and I troll each other back and forth. Mortals like you won't understand, though.

cs_zoltan
You know your opponent is practically shit when they bring up salt, they've got nothing else to say so they are trying to save face.

What's next? Double standards? Lies? Strawman?

I'm intrigued where Ziggy's shit tier debating is going next.

Syndicate
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
@Sydicate, if you're reading this, this is why it's better to attack the opposing team, rather than defend the character you like.

Zoltan's practically vomiting salt at this point, all because we poked his favourite character.

You are wise milord.

Edit: Tbh you seem defensive Ziggy.

carthage
Originally posted by SunRazer
Old ass Jedi Masters? Like An'ya Kuro? Kun killed Odan-Urr within a page, including a panel where he was cheap-shotted by the latter, whilst Vader struggled against the Dark Woman for several pages.

Kun's weakened spirit, in conjunction with an undeveloped Kyp Durron, absolutely wrecked post-DE Luke. Likewise, he incinerated Gantoris and Choked the entire Jedi entourage as a weakened spirit.

Long before reaching his prime (and yes, I'm aware he was enraged and on Yavin IV), his Force Blasts also annihilated Freedon Nadd's Spirit and shattered a sizeable portion of the Massassi Temple, taking down a Sith Wyrm and numerous Massassi warriors in the process.

lol @ Vader cracking the skull of someone more powerful than the Ancient Sith - Sadow, Nadd, Ragnos, Muur, etc. He's also far more powerful than any Jedi at the time - including Thon, who trapped Ambria's dark side energies inside Lake Naath. Kun cracks Vader's plastic armor with Force Blasts.

Too bad he's not capable of wrecking anyone on par with Luke while he was alive. Who cares what his spirit is capable of when he was living and more powerful none of his feats even match what he was capable of when dead, the burden of proof is on you and the other Exar wankers to show that him being in his prime means anything at all. Force spirits get annihilated by weaker force users all the time Jaden destroyed Ragnos, Sadow got beaten by some no name, Vader could easily annihilate a weakened Nadd spirit.

Ziggystardust
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
You know your opponent is practically shit when they bring up salt, they've got nothing else to say so they are trying to save face.

What's next? Double standards? Lies? Strawman?

I'm intrigued where Ziggy's shit tier debating is going next.

Zoltan, there is really no need to be upset. Vader is still a strong character, just don't get to bent out of shape, that he's not as strong as you'd like to be. roll eyes (sarcastic)

cs_zoltan
Oh no, he used a witty retort instead. What shall I do now? Skillz help me! I really need to win this irrelevant verbal dickmeasuring contest to be taken seriously!

cs_zoltan
Ohh wait, no one takes Ziggy seriously. Huh, close one. Now I can sleep in peace.

SunRazer
Because feats takes precedence over accolades? We know his spirit wasn't as powerful as his living self, that's indisputable. What's also indisputable is that Kun's more powerful than the likes of Muur, whose power 19BBY Vader was fantasizing over - you'd wonder if he'd fantasize over the power of his RotJ self the same way.

Also, the people suggesting that Kun gets destroyed because of a lack of TK feats - let's use Democrat-tier logic and say that since Vader has no feats of resisting Sorcery, Kun hypnotizes him like he did to the Senate. Or better yet, he has no feats of resisting a Force Blast, so Kun sends him to Chaos with one Blast. thumb up

carthage
Muur being more powerful than Vader far from his prime has no bearing on composite Vader with all of his feats/accolades, and with regards to Legends Canon it doesn't apply to Vader as of ROTJ who is well above the one Muur could compare to. I don't care if you think his 'living self' is more powerful, his best TK feat is killing a powerless old man, and all of his best force feats occur either on a nexus or with a ritual which has no bearing on combat.



His best Sorcery feat utterly failed to even hurt the force sensitives in the senate, and his blasts can be dodged, deflected, or beaten away by Vader's barrier (since they failed to do anything to a far inferior Aleema Keto). Show me any notable force feats that he's done off a nexus with Sorcery to suggest he could harm Vader

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by SunRazer
Because feats takes precedence over accolades? We know his spirit wasn't as powerful as his living self, that's indisputable *yet he still had a Luke potential force user at his disposal and a powerful dark side nexus. What's also indisputable is that Kun's more powerful than the likes of Muur, whose *spirit boosted in a an amulet had a power 19BBY Vader was fantasizing over - you'd wonder if he'd fantasize over the power of his RotJ self the same way.

Fixed it for you thumb up

cs_zoltan
I love how Exar wankers best arugment against Vader is that Exar > Muur > Vader, yet they ignore the accolde which says Vader > Anakin > Yoda.

Kek.

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