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Battle takes place in the Jedi Temple. Who wins?

Don't think Atris can penetrate her defenses in blade-to-blade combat, but she could win all-out through Drain etc.

Or she'll just Crush Luminara to death as she did to Meetra Surik

Luminara should win via being a substantially greater duelist.

Don't think the gap's that substantial, and as an entirely defensive fighter, I don't see Luminara being able to outduel Atris before the latter makes use of powers like Drain to turn the tide.

Luminara; much better duelist, and similarly strong in the Force. Drain's not an efficient combat power, and likely won't come into play for a majority of fights.

To what extent has Atris demonstrated drain in combat before?

Also how could she have crushed Meetra and what TK/barrier feats did Meetra have at that point in time?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
To what extent has Atris demonstrated drain in combat before?

Hard to say, since the only duels we've seen her in are against Brianna, where it's implied that they dueled each other to a standstill before Atris got tired of it and stomped her with Lightning, and against the Exile, who was just better (and there's little detail regarding the fight other than the Exile's lightsaber prowess being better).

That said, she "commands an array of potent dark side powers like Drain Life and Force Storm", per the Prima Guide, which suggests, of course, that she's well and truly capable of calling upon those powers if necessary. She also claims to "command" all the teachings of combat and the Force she gleaned from the dozens of Sith holocrons in her chamber. So I don't think there's any question that she can call upon Drain Life whenever it's necessary.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Also how could she have crushed Meetra and what TK/barrier feats did Meetra have at that point in time?

It's a joke. https://youtu.be/ssK9kZ5WRXI?t=88

Except drain has been stated as incredibly difficult to use in combat, and we've never even seen the extent to which Atris can wield it in combat, much less against another powerful Force user.

I'm not convinced that's gonna be a deciding factor.

If Luminara is much more skilled with the blade it doesn't matter if she uses the saber offensively or defensively, she can still out-skill her opponent when they attack her and cut them down in short order. And it's not like Luminara doesn't also have offensive forms under her belt.

Yeah but how effective isn't specified.

But as far as the prima guide goes, is Meetra not immune to drain in which case the prima guide would be a warning against something that's not even a factor? Or is she not immune to drain in which case Atris's useage of drain amounted to... meh?

Yeah, because it works the same as any other power in the gameplay.



I shouldn't need to explain why this is retarded.

AP's mental retardation has infected KMC, we need to call the CDC

Yeah, except Ultimate Star Wars has stated that Luminara and Ventress fought "to a standstill", so they should be pretty even when it comes to skill, and Ventress only won the initial engagement with Luminara by kicking her off a platform, not by way of overwhelming her saber defenses. It also should be noted that Ventress was pretty ****ing pissed-off, so Luminara fending off that assault for a period of time is quite impressive, especially given she just took steam to the eye 10 seconds earlier. Also, Luminara wasn't just defending the whole time, she's visibly trading blows and fencing Ventress -- her move-sets are clearly not entirely defensive. And I'm also really not about to place Atris near Luminara in skill just because she mastered Juyo, plus contending with Ventress' speed is also likely above Atris's capabilities, seeing as how Ventress IIRC matched Fisto in speed and almost overwhelmed Kenobi's defenses in The Cestus Deception.

I mean, if Ventress was just straight-up more skilled than Luminara her defenses would have been bypassed early-on, or Luminara would have been driven back completely. But no, she stood her ground with an injury and was effectively stonewalling Ventress' assault for nearly a minute before losing through BFR.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
I mean, if Ventress was just straight-up more skilled than Luminara her defenses would have been bypassed early-on, or Luminara would have been driven back completely. But no, she stood her ground with an injury and was effectively stonewalling Ventress' assault for nearly a minute before losing through BFR.

If Ventress were straight up more skilled, that wouldn't mean that she could easily bypass Luminara's defenses at all - for the same reason that Obi-Wan "dueled Dooku to a standstill" in the RotS novel despite Dooku being more skilled. That's how Soresu works.

I agree that Luminara's noticeably more skilled, but not considerably. Where do you have her in skill, anyway? Since Ventress by this time is a near-equal to Obi-Wan, so that'd put Luminara extremely high if you have her on par with Ventress.

Either way, Luminara doesn't need to be as good as Ventress to beat Atris with room to spare.

Originally posted by SunRazer
If Ventress were straight up more skilled, that wouldn't mean that she could easily bypass Luminara's defenses at all - for the same reason that Obi-Wan "dueled Dooku to a standstill" in the RotS novel despite Dooku being more skilled. That's how Soresu works.
Enough of a parity as there is between ROTS Kenobi and Dooku in lightsaber combat is enough tbh
As Newguy so eloquently puts it:
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Either way, Luminara doesn't need to be as good as Ventress to beat Atris with room to spare.

Originally posted by SunRazer
If Ventress were straight up more skilled, that wouldn't mean that she could easily bypass Luminara's defenses at all - for the same reason that Obi-Wan "dueled Dooku to a standstill" in the RotS novel despite Dooku being more skilled. That's how Soresu works. Kenobi is pretty ****ing close to Dooku in skill as of RotS I think, so the point remains, that even if Luminara isn't equal to Ventress in skill, she's very much close enough.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I agree that Luminara's noticeably more skilled, but not considerably. Where do you have her in skill, anyway? Since Ventress by this time is a near-equal to Obi-Wan, so that'd put Luminara extremely high if you have her on par with Ventress. I don't think Ventress is a near-equal to Kenobi at that point. He was *****-slapping her on Teth.

Anyways, I think I have Luminara at S1 Ventress level in skill.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Enough of a parity as there is between ROTS Kenobi and Dooku in lightsaber combat is enough tbh
As Newguy so eloquently puts it:

Well, I have Dooku as a tier 9 combatant and Obi-Wan tier 8, sort of like Obi-Wan and Anakin. Early TCW Obi-Wan's considerably further down - this is just post-AotC Obi-Wan, after all. Ventress is a bit below that, and Luminara's a bit below Ventress, so about on par with Qui-Gon or a notch higher. I don't think that's enough to "beat Atris with room to spare", especially not with Drain and other Force powers in play.

@King_Joker - Well, then Luminara is considerably below S1 Obi-Wan, who is essentially AotC Obi-Wan. So yeah, I have Atris more or less on par with Qui-Gon, maybe a notch below. There's really not that much of a gap.

We've never even seen how effectively she can use drain lol, that's hardly enough for me to say she can beat Luminara.

Originally posted by SunRazer
@King_Joker - Well, then Luminara is considerably below S1 Obi-Wan, who is essentially AotC Obi-Wan. Compare Ventress vs. Kenobi in TCD and Ventress vs. Kenobi on Teth -- Kenobi performs significantly better in the latter fight, so S1 Kenobi isn't essentially AotC Kenobi.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
We've never even seen how effectively she can use drain lol, that's hardly enough for me to say she can beat Luminara.

Well, I'm inclined to say she's also more powerful, so I'd assume Drain would work to an extent.

Lumi matched Ventress's Force push well enough tbf

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Compare Ventress vs. Kenobi in TCD and Ventress vs. Kenobi on Teth -- Kenobi performs significantly better in the latter fight, so S1 Kenobi isn't essentially AotC Kenobi.

In fairness, it's probably just TCW's writing, which is almost completely ignorant of continuity at times. That said, familiarity plays a big role. Also, she does disarm him at first, doesn't she?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Lumi matched Ventress's Force push well enough tbf

Doubt that's better than Atris, who was essentially Mind Controlling the Handmaidens and corrupting them to the dark side.

There's also her closing huge doors which couldn't be opened by any conventional means (ie. plasma torches, which could cut through most metal doors) without even breaking her stride or gesturing.

There's also her being severely wounded by Meetra's lightsaber, and then she runs up the ramp into her chambers and presumably uses Force Healing, since when you go up there, she's fully healed. That's a pretty damn good Force Healing feat.

She also knocked out Brianna via Wound (internal telekinesis) without even gesturing.

Originally posted by SunRazer
In fairness, it's probably just TCW's writing, which is almost completely ignorant of continuity at times. Agreed, which is really annoying. Originally posted by SunRazer
That said, familiarity plays a big role. Also, she does disarm him at first, doesn't she? Yes, but TCW novelization says Kenobi isn't even trying in his duel with her, so, *shrug*.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Agreed, which is really annoying. Yes, but TCW novelization says Kenobi isn't even trying in his duel with her, so, *shrug*.

I think the junior novelization mentions that Obi-Wan barely defeated her or something. Sounds like TCW isn't even consistent within its own media. TOR has some competition, tbh.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I think the junior novelization mentions that Obi-Wan barely defeated her or something. Sounds like TCW isn't even consistent within its own media. TOR has some competition, tbh. Neither novelization description seems really accurate to what's on-screen, in all honesty.

Try attack of the clones... that shit was the worst for continuity between sources.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Try attack of the clones... that shit was the worst for continuity between sources.

Nah, Bane of the Sith and Karpyshyn's trilogy are.