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Karness Muur when alive and in his prime. Morales off. Standard equipment. Win via death or incapacitation. Full restoration after every round.

1. Thrawn Trilogy Luke.
2. Gethzerion.
3. Galen Marek.
4. Vjun Dooku.
5. Tenebrous.
6. RotJ Vader.
7. Reborn Krayt.
8. Revan.
9. DE Luke.
10. Caedus.
11. Exar Kun.
12. Plagueis.
12. Nihilus.
13. Talzin.
14. Vitiate.
14. RotJ Sidious.

2.

Order is absolute cancer.

Gets destroyed at 1.

Where does this take place? Off Dathomir, Muur should take Gethzerion, whilst Thrawn Trilogy Luke might lose to Muur by virtue of the latter's Force attacks and Sorcery.

This list is a mix-up, to put him somewhere he'd have to defeat more powerful characters to get to that person.

Loses to Geth.

Off Dathomir, I can't see that happening. On Dathomir, probably, yeah.

@Skillz - Vader's canonically more powerful than Geth by ESB/SotE, so you must have RotJ Vader over Muur

Originally posted by SunRazer
@Skillz - Vader's canonically more powerful than Geth by ESB/SotE

I'm so gonna use that fact more in my arguments for Vader.

Well, assuming Geth at that time is as powerful as she is years later in TCoPL, of course. But we can't know for sure either way.

When did Palpatine start blockading Dathomir?

How many years after RotJ, did CoPL take place?
Because I doubt someone of her age would suddenly get a large boon in power in a few years just 'cause, tbh. I mean it's totally possible, but I see no reason to assume such.

Also, I haves no clue.

Four, I think.

And I'm asking because if Sidious began blockading after RotJ, then it means that he never found it necessary to blockade Dathomir during the OT. That means he probably wasn't afraid of Geth's power then, which would mean that she improved since Vader's accolade.

...wait, how could Sidious block anything after RotJ, if he presumingly died during those events?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
...wait, how could Sidious block anything after RotJ if he was presumingly died during those events?

He came back afterwards and regained his physical form by TCoPL, lol. It could've been anything from between RotJ and TCoPL, and Sidious still had some loyalists. Wasn't the blockade of Dathomir a secret operation?

Originally posted by SunRazer


@Skillz - Vader's canonically more powerful than Geth by ESB/SotE, so you must have RotJ Vader over Muur

You never fail to disappoint Sunrazer.

Let's what cancerous 'power-scale' argument you've cooked up for Darth Vader > Geth.

Well, according to the wiki, Palpatine blockaded Dathomir while he was "alive", but posted no source so....yeah, should be taken with a grai. of salt. *shrugs*

I'll scan through the book myself to confirm, but I don't see Sidious putting a blockade on the planet when he's a reborn clone, KEK.

Originally posted by SunRazer
He came back afterwards and regained his physical form by TCoPL, lol. It could've been anything from between RotJ and TCoPL, and Sidious still had some loyalists. Wasn't the blockade of Dathomir a secret operation?

Not really, Sidious sensed her powers before Rotj.

But the Emperor, who sensed Gethzerion's power through the Force, realized that once Gethzerion mastered the controls of a shuttle, she could reach the orbiting docking facility, and from there spread her influence to the rest of the galaxy, one day perhaps even challenging him.

The Emperor ordered the orbital docks destroyed, abandoning the lmperial forces of the penal colony to Gethzerion and the Nightsisters. Ships were assigned to periodically the planet and make orbital scans to ensure that the Nightsisters were still confined to Dathomir, but we given strict orders never to land. This state of affairs continued for many years, until the death of the Emperor. Imperial Commander Zsinj, now a power-hungry warlord, returned to Dathomir pursuing the smuggler turned war hero Han Solo, who had kidnapped Leia Organa to prevent her from marrying the Hapan ambassador Prince Isolder.

Taken from The Dark Side Sourcebook

And unless you want to argue this is referring to Palpatine's DE death, he trapped Gethzerion years before Rotj, which should also be obvious from the fact that the quote mentions a commander who returned to Dathomir in COPL. Palpatine's death however is mentioned before that event.

Which means pre prime Vader is above Gethzerion as well.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
Not really, Sidious sensed her powers before Rotj.

But the Emperor, who sensed Gethzerion's power through the Force, realized that once Gethzerion mastered the controls of a shuttle, she could reach the orbiting docking facility, and from there spread her influence to the rest of the galaxy, one day perhaps even challenging him.

The Emperor ordered the orbital docks destroyed, abandoning the lmperial forces of the penal colony to Gethzerion and the Nightsisters. Ships were assigned to periodically the planet and make orbital scans to ensure that the Nightsisters were still confined to Dathomir, but we given strict orders never to land. This state of affairs continued for many years, until the death of the Emperor. Imperial Commander Zsinj, now a power-hungry warlord, returned to Dathomir pursuing the smuggler turned war hero Han Solo, who had kidnapped Leia Organa to prevent her from marrying the Hapan ambassador Prince Isolder.

Taken from The Dark Side Sourcebook

And unless you want to argue this is referring to Palpatine's DE death, he trapped Gethzerion years before Rotj, which should also be obvious from the fact that the quote mentions a commander who returned to Dathomir in COPL. Palpatine's death however is mentioned before that event.

Which means pre prime Vader is above Gethzerion as well.


There is literally nothing in that passage confirming Vader > Geth, or any relative power-chart that can be rationalized from with in it.
Once again, it's just a circle-jerk from cancerous fanboys. Not a surprise.

.

The Thrawn Trilogy is only a year before Dark Empire; Luke should be solidly above Vader already.

As a duelist? Maybe. As a Force user? Heck no. IIRC, Dude couldn't even budge an AT-ST stuck in a wall.

Are we now just ignoring the fact that when they met each other Vader sensed Muur's power and feared he'd be 'trading one master for another'?

Nah, we're not. But Vader power grown by a pretty vast amount since he stated that about Karness tbh

When does this encounter happen? How many years after RotS?

19 BBY, I believe?

Yeah Vader might not have been past Dooku when he encountered Murr.

But how can we actually know this if we don't accurately know when Vader's prime was?

In Legends it's pretty clearly RotJ, at least post-Mustafar.

Originally posted by Petrus
But how can we actually know this if we don't accurately know when Vader's prime was?

We know by RotJ, Vader was more powerful than have ever been, per his own musing.

So you believe Vader's performance against Luke in RotJ is mainly due to him having doubts and questioning his allegiance to Sidious? Or is Luke just that good by RotJ?

I believe Luke's unparalleled instrintic aptitude with the Force, and a blade, in conjunction with his familiarity with Vader's combat style, allowed him to match Darth, yes.

I was always of the opinion tho, that Luke, by RotJ, was nowhere near Vader in combative usage of the Force.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I believe Luke's unparalleled instrintic aptitude with the Force, and a blade, in conjunction with his familiarity with Vader's combat style, allowed him to match Darth, yes.

I was always of the opinion tho, that Luke, by RotJ, was nowhere near Vader in combative usage of the Force.

Fair enough. Weren't there people here that argued Rebels was his prime?

Well, in canon, that may very well be the case.

In Legends, his prime was clearly RotJ, however.

Then the real question is how much did he grow in power during those years, or if he grew enough for him to stop viewing Muur as 'another master'.

Either way, Muur is good enough to at least be above someone like RotS Anakin in terms of power.

Bump.

Puked when I saw the order, but I'll just say he definitely stomps Galen.