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1. Sabers

2. Force

3. All-Out

Revan dust' him.

Tenebrous easily wins sabers and also the others.

Tenebrous in all bar possibly Force.

Revan slices and dices.

Revan stomps

Revan stomps Tenebrous but his successor Plagueis defeats Revan?

Even if the gap between Plagueis and Tenebrous were as large as between Sidious and Plagueis (which it isn't), that still wouldn't remotely be the case.

Yes but Tenebrous was idiot and disgrace

Originally posted by BazookaMaster
Yes but Tenebrous was idiot and disgrace

If Tenebrous is below Revan but Plagueis is Vitiate-tier, it's tough to regress thirty sith to Bane, even if Plagueis is an outlier.

Rule of Two could have ups and downs, no one says it had to work everytime

We know it worked generally

There may have been greater succeses than normal

And some failures

Tenebrous looks like failure

Based on what?

His best invention maxichlorian manip ended in his failure and suffering in death, he switched from praising plagueis to dissing him twice, the second student he taught was total failure, he betrayed rule of two but dissed Plag for doing it, all his future calculations and super senses still made him die in a trap of exploding a cave with him..

I dont know man, sounds like a failure to me lol

Nah. Almost all Sith fail to foresse their own deaths despite having great powers of foresight. And plenty of Sth are hypocritical.

I'm talking about what makes him a failure power-wise.

Maxichlorian, his greatest achiev in Force = total failure
His perfect Force Sense+calcs, most praised skill = total failure

And being dumbass doesnt help in using your power to good results

So Palpatine's just as much of a failure despite being the most powerful Sith Lord in history? I mean, he failed his clone project utterly and ended up in chaos. And his most prized skill, Force Storm, ended up consuming him.

Problem = Sidi has other feats and praises and demonstrations of power

All we know of tenebrous is failure lol

All skills he got praise in and were called his best achievs = failure

If all we know is failure and dissapointment it does not leave much room for deducing he's good in others

Tenebrous does have feats and accolades, lol.

His barrier feat is awesome but not Plagueis level, Revan level and other levels like this

That's irrelevant to his combative ability. Also it's explicitly stated that the Banite sith grew stronger each generation - there were no downs.

Tenebrous should be above Revan by powerscaling.

Shitty arbitrary conjecture per usual.

Tenebrous threads are cancer, as well as his supporters.

Just dismissing arguments by vaguely calling them "subjective" isn't an argument. Not to mention that low balling Tenebrous is just as unsupported an assertion if you're just going to assert it on face.

No, I'm dismissing them because they're shitty LMAO.

Tenebrous is far above Bane; so what? Revan is as well, it proves absolutely nothing in the end.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Shitty arbitrary conjecture per usual.

Tenebrous threads are cancer, as well as his supporters.

Nah. Tenebrous haters always have no argument and just claim that he sucks. His feats are damn impressive, lol.

Tenebrous sucks

Originally posted by SunRazer
Revan stomps Tenebrous but his successor Plagueis defeats Revan?

Even if the gap between Plagueis and Tenebrous were as large as between Sidious and Plagueis (which it isn't), that still wouldn't remotely be the case. Tenebrous is implied to have been more powerful than Plagueis when he died so yeah.

On the other hand Revan is described as no match for Vitiate.

By who? Marr?

The Wrath perhaps, I can't remember.

At the Rishi conference, I recall the Wrath / Hero stating that they should let Revan do what he plans to do, but then Marr states that even Revan cannot defeat Vitiate. Wrath / Hero adopts Marr's stance for the rest of the game and later tells Revan that personally. Marr's understanding of Revan or Vitiate seems to purely be based on the legends of the two. For one, he seems convinced Vitiate is a galaxy-buster without exception. And two, he's never seen peak Revan - or him at all.

SoR Revan should be very close to novel Vitiate, so I can't see how Plagueis/Tenebrous takes some definitive edge.

Well its true Marr is far from a reliable source, but then he did get shat on in the Revan novel.

I disagree. Revan handled all of Vitiate's lightning to the point where he physically "tanked" (in the sense he didn't die) the rest (and with additional Jedi healing, was up on his feet in a minute). In SoR, where his body is fueled by his willpower, I can see Revan completely overcoming Vitiate's assault and pressing the charge further.

Hardly.

He beat his telepathic assault with... balance in the Force(?) or whatever stupid power that was. He deflected Vitiate's lightning bolts with his lightsaber and reflected one right back at him. Then he absorbed the majority of Vitiate's lightning and survived the excess, healing himself from all that damage and was ready for another exchange.

He was certainly losing, but he did not get 'shit on'.

Ready for another exchange? He would have died if not for Meetra and couldn't even contain the full storm.

EDIT: Also Vitiate has got stronger too, presumably.

After Vitiate was distracted by T3's flamethrower and Meetra's saber throw, Revan healed himself and was ready for another fight.

But he would have died. Point is all we should expect from SOR Revan is to last a bit longer, then also die.

This is of course without factoring in Vitiate fighting intelligently, if he had just conjured a storm in the first place much like he did against the TOR B-team, Revan might never have even gotten in range.

Double post.

'A bit longer'? He's gone through three centuries of knowledge and mental hardening against Vitiate himself, which would afford him a far better basis upon which to fight from. Combine that with two bonified power curves and the gap would be far, far smaller.

Revan the resurrected >>> novel Revan.

And also went mad and lost half his being, yeah.

His powers intensified after his death, he went from losing to four Imp protags to handling two far stronger strike teams back-to-back whilst controlling his ritual. Dark Revan became the anti-Vitiate, utterly obsessed with defeating the Emperor. He's going to be far more dangerous than in the novel.

Originally posted by AncientPower
His powers intensified after his death, he went from losing to four Imp protags to handling two far stronger strike teams back-to-back whilst controlling his ritual. Dark Revan became the anti-Vitiate, utterly obsessed with defeating the Emperor. He's going to be far more dangerous than in the novel. Yeah on a nexus, and again after losing a portion of his being and most of his sanity.

Point is while Revan undoubtedly got stronger, his gains were mitigated somewhat by his losses. And this is explicitly stated in the game.

Most his loses aren't necessarily combat-applicable though. They more have to do with Revan as a person rather than his Force powers.

While he is crazed, he's also more focused, and especially based on the Kyp Durron quote I posted earlier, he's going to be greater for it.

The pros outweigh the cons, basically.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Tenebrous is implied to have been more powerful than Plagueis when he died so yeah.

On the other hand Revan is described as no match for Vitiate.

Yea, Revan as of "Revan" isn't. SoR Revan is a whole different animal.

Bump

I'd think you'd have more than enough of getting owned by Ant without inviting more of it. You're still choking on the last round.

No, I just want to see opinions
I will respond to him later, lel.

I love when people lowball Tene and then go ahead and suck Ragnos and co's dick dry.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I love when people lowball Tene and then go ahead and suck Ragnos and co's dick dry.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I love when people lowball Tene and then go ahead and suck Ragnos and co's dick dry.
TOR >> Ancients >>>>>>> PT/OT/NJO

The truth hurts.

Revan one-shots.

Tenebrous is frail and inferior to Revan in any conceivable comparison.

Yep. Rocks fall, Tenebrous dies.

Tenebrous wins in a squash match.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan one-shots. Like Vitiate one shotted him?

Yeah I've been on the fence about this but Revan dies here.

Revan demolishes him.

Teneb wins.

I'm sensing a slight divide in these responses.

Revan in all, sabers is close, Force is an easy win

Revan destroys...

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah I've been on the fence about this but Revan dies here.

Revan really isn't that far from Plagueis at all, so saying Tenebrous 'wins decisively' isn't logical.

What do we truly have on Tenebrous other than his RoT standing, which doesn't necessarily mean much considering Plagueis increased significantly in power throughout the novel? If Teneb wins, it'd be after a grueling battle.

Originally posted by Petrus
Revan really isn't that far from Plagueis at all, so saying Tenebrous 'wins decisively' isn't logical.

Except when Revan's being one-shot by Plagueis' inferiors then yes, it's logical.



Prove first that the "significant" power increase places Plagueis so far above Tenebrous that he'd be in the one-shot range. Then, and only then, is Tenebrous on Revan's level.

Originally posted by Azronger
Except when Revan's being one-shot by Plagueis' inferiors then yes, it's logical.

Plagueis' inferiors?

Originally posted by Petrus
Plagueis' inferiors?

Novel Vitiate and Valkorion

Yeah except that the Revan Vitiate defeated isn't prime Revan and also he cheap-shotted him via Scourge's betrayal.

And Valkorion isn't Plagueis' inferior, lol. At least definitely not Forcewise.

Originally posted by Petrus
Yeah except that the Revan Vitiate defeated isn't prime Revan and also he cheap-shotted him via Scourge's betrayal.

Revan got one-shot by Vitiate's lightning storm. And neither is novel Vitiate prime Vitiate. If you want to prove SoR Revan can go toe-to-toe with planetaries, feel free to do so.



Until someone debunks Ell's post, he is.

Originally posted by Azronger
Revan got one-shot by Vitiate's lightning storm.
Stupidity at its finest.

I think basic comprehension skills are the words you're looking for.

Tbh.

Originally posted by Azronger
Except when Revan's being one-shot by Plagueis' inferiors then yes, it's logical.
Vitiate is not Plagueis's inferior, you numbskull.

Originally posted by Azronger
Prove first that the "significant" power increase places Plagueis so far above Tenebrous that he'd be in the one-shot range. Then, and only then, is Tenebrous on Revan's level.
Darth Plagueis isn't one-shotting someone like Revan.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate is not Plagueis's inferior, you numbskull.


Someone's in denial.



Vitiate did and he's <<< Plagueis.

Originally posted by Azronger

Someone's in denial.



Vitiate did and he's <<< Plagueis.
No, you are in denial. You are taking a subjective marketing statement at face value for it. Another marketing statement asserts that Darth Plagueis achieved absolute mastery over life and death which is bullshit as well. It seems like the relevant publisher did not even bother to study the novel, and slapped bold claims over the book cover in order to attract audience and fool the gullible.

Vitiate, by virtue of power-scaling and feats >>> Darth Plagueis. He might be stronger than Palpatine as well.

That blurb isn't canonical, or JA Exar Kun is potentially > DE Sidious.

Originally posted by AncientPower
That blurb isn't canonical, or JA Exar Kun is potentially > DE Sidious.

Jedi Academy only says if Kyp and Exar Kun work together they might become the worst enemy the New Republic has faced. Given how Kyp's potential ~ Leia's and Luke's, and adding Kun plus the Sun Crusher to that would certainly be ahead of just Palpatine alone.

So far, I fail to see why novella blurbs shouldn't be considered canon. Or why an anecdotal fallacy would immediately cancel out every other blurb outright.

Because the blubs aren't created by any actual creative authority. Some intern wrote them up to sell books. There are numerous occasions when they outright contradict the book.

Blurbs are created to give an idea of what the book is about, in which case they apply to the characters within the book itself. And LucasArts confirmed it, so whether an intern or an author wrote it, a higher authority confirmed and allowed it.

Pretty sure they've confirmed nothing. The authors send the book to Del Rey and then they write the blurb up and publish it without any input from Lucasarts. A SW writer has confirmed this and stated that any blurb should essentially be ignored as it has no connection to anyone writing for SW itself.

LucasArt's statement >>> Drew's opinion, lmao.

The blurb meant to give a brief summary of the book's plot has nothing to do with the book itself? Sure, why not?

The people writing it likely haven't even read the book, lol. It's supposed to be a loose, vague, hyperbolic summery, not gospel.

Originally posted by MythLord
Jedi Academy only says if Kyp and Exar Kun work together they might become the worst enemy the New Republic has faced. Given how Kyp's potential ~ Leia's and Luke's, and adding Kun plus the Sun Crusher to that would certainly be ahead of just Palpatine alone.

So far, I fail to see why novella blurbs shouldn't be considered canon. Or why an anecdotal fallacy would immediately cancel out every other blurb outright.

Exar Kun being the vast majority of power here, using Kyp as a temporary yet inadequate dpurce of energy, in place of his own. Furthermore the Sun Crusher is one of the aforementioned problems that Kun and Kyp are an even greater danger than. Even if it was included as an asset, by inference we must include Reborn Palpatine's vast armada.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Pretty sure they've confirmed nothing. The authors send the book to Del Rey and then they write the blurb up and publish it without any input from Lucasarts. A SW writer has confirmed this and stated that any blurb should essentially be ignored as it has no connection to anyone writing for SW itself. Drew confirmed that he and he alone wasn't consulted lol, everything else you've said is conjecture. But of course you're well aware of that, and simply repeat otherwise in the hope it might become truth, not working darling.

Fact is it has the LucasBooks seal of approval, and that anything published by a Lucas company = canon, end of discussion.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Drew confirmed that he and he alone wasn't consulted lol, everything else you've said is conjecture. But of course you're well aware of that, and simply repeat otherwise in the hope it might become truth, not working darling.

Fact is it has the LucasBooks seal of approval, and that anything published by a Lucas company = canon, end of discussion.
It is now Legends, my friend. And rightfully subjected to scrutiny.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is Legends, you noob. Therefore, open to scrutiny.
And you don't understand that it is canon to Legends, lmao.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
And you don't understand that it is canon to Legends, lmao.
That is an epic brainfart.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is now Legends, my friend. And rightfully subjected to scrutiny. Oh so this is the new line of argument is it? "It's Legends therefore ma biased runs free!!11!"

Alright dear, as long as you accept that its just as valid as any other Legends source.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That is an epic brainfart.
Canon doesn't mean just canon continuity, but also canonically to the Legends continuty.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/canonically

It is open to scrutiny, from a Canon (with a capital C) perspective, in the same way that the very existence of Valkorion is open to scrutiny. However from a Legends perspective it is just as binding as any other secondary source.

Originally posted by Beniboybling


It is open to scrutiny, from a Canon (with a capital C) perspective, in the same way that the very existence of Valkorion is open to scrutiny. However from a Legends perspective it is just as binding as any other secondary source.
The accuracy of Legends content is debatable in some cases and this is one of them. Vitiate absolutely shits over Darth Plagueis in showings and accomplishments. Why should I ignore such treasure-trove of evidence and treat an (unsubstantiated) blurb as absolute truth?

If Darth Plaguies was demontratively that powerful and accomplished as his marketing statements imply, I would not have questioned it (yes, I am not blind and biased to this extent). Unfortunately, the novel tells a different story.

Darth Plagueis is one of my favorite characters. I expected him to be above Palpatine. However....James Luceno ruined it.

If BioWare introduces a character more powerful than Valkorion, I will accept it. I am already coming to terms with the new revelation that the Outlander is above Revan.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The accuracy of Legends content is debatable in some cases and this is one of them. Vitiate absolutely shits over Darth Plagueis in showings and accomplishments. Why should I ignore such treasure-trove of evidence and treat an (unsubstantiated) blurb as absolute truth?He has more showing and accomplishments, that doesn't prove he's superior in the slightest.

The novel depicts Darth Plagueis asserting that through strength of will he can accomplish anything, attainting unprecedented power over the building blocks of the Force, and upsetting the cosmological balance to such an extent to trigger the creation of the Chosen One.

How does the novel tell a different story?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Plagueis is one of my favorite characters. I expected him to be above Palpatine. However....James Luceno ruined it. Why because he didn't shower it with ham-fisted uber feats like the kind you get in TOR?

I'd rather have it not read like a Micheal Bay movie sry.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If BioWare introduces a character more powerful than Valkorion, I will accept it. I am already coming to terms with the new revelation that the Outlander is above Revan. Hilarious, so you'll only accept Valkorion's inferiority if their from TOR?

Beni sums it up pretty well.

TOR is a media designed to just give people wankable characters pulling OP feat after OP feat out of their arses. Meanwhile, well-written stories focus much more on character depth so the "Oh mah gawd, so powahful!" side of things takes a backseat and isn't as explored.

Plagy's feats and hype with regards to raw power is certainly up to stack with Valkorion's, it's just his accomplishments aren't as flashy.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He has more showing and accomplishments, that doesn't prove he's superior in the slightest.
Correction: not more, but vastly superior.

Vitiate has vastly superior showings in Nathema, dispatching a Dark Council, defeating Revan, devastating Ziost, corrupting Dromund Kaas and immortality, to name a few.

Even neutral observors do not perceive Darth Plagueis as powerful as his marketing statements suggest: http://www.looper.com/23042/powerful-sith-star-wars-universe/

Shame

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The novel depicts Darth Plagueis asserting that through strength of will he can accomplish anything, attainting unprecedented power over the building blocks of the Force, and upsetting the cosmological balance to such an extent to trigger the creation of the Chosen One.

How does the novel tell a different story?
That is the perception of Darth Plagueis.

Do you understand the difference between perception and actual accomplishments? I suppose not.

Yes, Darth Plagueis learned the ability to influence Midichlorians but who is to say that Vitiate didn't through his own devices? Vitiate not just achieved corporal immortality but cheated death time-and-again. Darth Plagueis failed to cheat death even once. Can't you ****ing see it?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Why because he didn't shower it with ham-fisted uber feats like the kind you get in TOR?

I'd rather have it not read like a Micheal Bay movie sry.
So that is my problem now? If James Luceno failed to make a compelling case of Darth Plagueis's superiority, then it is not my fault.

Darth Plagueis could be assigned talents that would have legitimately frightened Palpatine. And it would have been much better if Palpatine had had him assassinated in a convincing manner! But nope. That would have been an insult to his gary-stu status. How dare they.

Originally posted by MythLord
Beni sums it up pretty well.

TOR is a media designed to just give people wankable characters pulling OP feat after OP feat out of their arses. Meanwhile, well-written stories focus much more on character depth so the "Oh mah gawd, so powahful!" side of things takes a backseat and isn't as explored.
Compelling story and incredible feats can compliment each other. It comes down to the writer.

Originally posted by MythLord
Plagy's feats and hype with regards to raw power is certainly up to stack with Valkorion's, it's just his accomplishments aren't as flashy.
Wrong.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Hilarious, so you'll only accept Valkorion's inferiority if their from TOR?
Your failure to grasp a point, is becoming a norm.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Compelling story and incredible feats can compliment each other. It comes down to the writer.
Yeah, but TOR hasn't any good story, lol.
Having super-mega OP characters is the only thing TOR has, lol.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Yeah, but TOR hasn't any good story, lol.
Having super-mega OP characters is the only thing TOR has, lol.
TOR is not devoid of really good stories; KoTOR and Agent to name a few. However, MMORPG format ruined it in the long-term.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
TOR is not devoid of really good stories; KoTOR and Agent to name a few. However, MMORPG format ruined it in the long-term.
I meant SWTOR, not KoTOR. But SOR, KotFE, KOTET seem to have no story, but just "OMG HOW POWERFUL!"-chars.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your failure to grasp a point, is becoming a norm. Nah in just reading between the lines, not my fault you where your biased on your sleeve.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nah in just reading between the lines, not my fault you where your biased on your sleeve.
If any source introduces a character more powerful than Valkorion and justify it with actual quantifiable showings, than I am all ears. But Palpatine and Luke Skywalker are not them, with existing data.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I meant SWTOR, not KoTOR. But SOR, KotFE, KOTET seem to have no story, but just "OMG HOW POWERFUL!"-chars.

Well when your only exposure to something is on a versus forum talking about feats, sure.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I meant SWTOR, not KoTOR. But SOR, KotFE, KOTET seem to have no story, but just "OMG HOW POWERFUL!"-chars.
I disagree. The original stories of SWTOR are not bad. However, a player can loose interest in them due to MMORPG format of gameplay. As for the expansions, they are not bad either, however they do have shortcomings of their own.

KoTFE was a fresh reboot. However, MMORPG format ruined it, again.

It would have been much better if BioWare had expanded the story and role of each protagonist in the matters of galaxy, separately in the expansions, just like in the original story. Unfortunately, cost and time was an issue.

TOR was ruined the the blustering incompetence of its writers, nothing more.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Correction: not more, but vastly superior.

Vitiate has vastly superior showings in Nathema, dispatching a Dark Council, defeating Revan, devastating Ziost, corrupting Dromund Kaas and immortality, to name a few.Superior to what? When have Plagueis' limitations being shown in those regards? You realise there is no evidence Plagueis cannot accomplish any of that?

You mean clueless laymen? Hilarious.

That's nice dear, but I couldn't give a damn if you find the case convincing or not, especially when your going to cherry pick in your response, the point that the novel provides ample material to support a case for Plagueis' most powerful status, just as SWTOR has done for Vitiate.

Difference being the blurb legitimises Hego's claim.

And for the record no, there is no proof that Vitiate mastered midichlorian manipulation, his ability to cheat death nonwithstanding. And if he did? That only makes it more telling how he failed to achieve as much as with this power as Plagueis managed.

Oh but he did, the point I was making was that he did so without insulting the intellectual capabilities of his readers, but evidently at the expense of the intellectual challenged, I'm sorry that this upset you.

But sure, I would have much preferred Plagueis to have been killed in some imaginary mind realm where Sids got powerups from dead Sith Lords and used magic words to seal him away in a super special deus ex machina holocron, would have made for a great read.

All I see from the blurb deniers is one fallacy after another. Every word they say is concession; every sentence they utter is defeat. Wollf, Beni, Urs... my friends, rise above this. Let the worms squirm in the filth of their own self-destruction, while we ascend beyond their comprehension. They are beneath our attention.

Originally posted by Azronger
All I see from the blurb deniers is one fallacy after another. Every word they say is concession; every sentence they utter is defeat. Wollf, Beni, Urs... my friends, rise above this. Let the worms squirm in the filth of their own self-destruction, while we ascend beyond their comprehension. They are beneath our attention.
Eh... yeah, except for Deronn's points, I've saw non proof to say tht publisher summary's are non-canon.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Eh... yeah, except for Deronn's points, I've saw non proof to say tht publisher summary's are non-canon.

What points?

*shrug* Examples like Plo Koon beating Talzin in that one...dunno what it was, lol.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
*shrug* Examples like Plo Koon beating Talzin in that one...dunno what it was, lol.

?

I am just saying that Deronn is the only one of the anti-blurb brigade, who has points worthy to adressing.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I am just saying that Deronn is the only one of the anti-blurb brigade, who has points worthy to adressing.

I asked what his points are.

Eh, I'll search a link to an thread in which he discusses them tomorrow. I can't explin it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Superior to what? When have Plagueis' limitations being shown in those regards? You realise there is no evidence Plagueis cannot accomplish any of that?
Superior to (actual) showings of Darth Plagueis. Your failure to distinguish actual showings from sheer hyperbole is most amusing. There is an utter lack of evidence that Darth Plagueis could replicate major showings of Vitiate; Darth Plagueis's perception doesn't count. Sith tend to have an inflated sense of what they can accomplish.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
You mean clueless laymen? Hilarious.
No, they managed to see through the hyperbole, and based their evaluation on actual showings instead. You can learn from them.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That's nice dear, but I couldn't give a damn if you find the case convincing or not, especially when your going to cherry pick in your response, the point that the novel provides ample material to support a case for Plagueis' most powerful status, just as SWTOR has done for Vitiate.
Concession accepted on the first part. And that case is?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Difference being the blurb legitimises Hego's claim.
It doesn't. It is an (unsubstantiated) hyperbole, to garner attention of audience.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And for the record no, there is no proof that Vitiate mastered midichlorian manipulation, his ability to cheat death nonwithstanding. And if he did? That only makes it more telling how he failed to achieve as much as with this power as Plagueis managed.
Did I assert that Vitiate practiced Midichlorian Manipulation? My point is that Vitiate managed to influence his midichlorians through his own devices (i.e. Sith Sorcery); this is apparent from the fact that he enhanced his potential, halted his aging and/or managed to extend his life for indefinite period. Common sense dictates that none of this is possible without affecting the midichlorians in the body. Sith Sorcery might be perceived as magic but its effects are real.

Darth Plagueis lived in a different era; by that time, the field of science had advanced much further and midichlorians could be directly observed and studied in laboratory settings during that time. Darth Plagueis was lucky to exist in that era and he was able to commune with the midichlorians and influence them, directly. This is not a sign of his superiority in ways of the Force in any way or form. If Vitiate was in the shoes of Darth Plagueis, god knows what he could accomplish.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Oh but he did, the point I was making was that he did so without insulting the intellectual capabilities of his readers, but evidently at the expense of the intellectual challenged, I'm sorry that this upset you.
No, you are proving to be intellectually challenged instead. The novel, in no way or form, promotes Darth Plagueis as the most powerful Sith to have ever existed; the novel is written entirely from his perspective. On top of it, actual showings of Darth Plagueis, in the novel, do not affirm his superiority either. The marketing blurbs are absolutely hyperbolic, slapped on the novel by the publisher without proper homework. Even neutral observors noticed this. Shame on you.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
But sure, I would have much preferred Plagueis to have been killed in some imaginary mind realm where Sids got powerups from dead Sith Lords and used magic words to seal him away in a super special deus ex machina holocron, would have made for a great read.


Since the two faced entirely different set of circumstances, there was no need for that. However, Darth Plagueis's demise could be a engineered in a more convincing way than how it happened in the novel. Like I said, it is all about writing. James Luceno is as much of a disappointment as Drew Karpyshyn is.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I am just saying that Deronn is the only one of the anti-blurb brigade, who has points worthy to adressing.

Exar Kun > Palpatine confirmed.

KEK. Only if you do some serious reaching.

KEK. Only if you have basic reading comprehension.

P.S Love how you dodged my actual reply.

Something I'm sure you lack.

Didn't even see you replied, tbh.

Lol'd hard at Plagueis having it easier than Vitiate because "science is more advanced in his era".

It's Star Wars. The technology barely changes.

And that's not what allowed him to manipulate midichlorians.

Also what Vitiate did wasn't midichlorian manipulation. All he did was add on to his life force. Plagueis achieved real self-sustainability, something the ancients weren't even close to achieving, hence the need for massive rituals and the constant need for essence transfer.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun > Palpatine confirmed.
Could I see the quote, please.
As far as I know, it means that Exar+Kyp+Sun Crusher ???>??? Sidious.

Also, even if it would say Exar > Sidious, it was reconnected- Plagueis supremacy quote wasn't.

Given that TPM Palpatine is factually more powerful than Vitiate, I don't see what's so incredulous about Plagueis being more powerful than Vitiate also. Even the TORies have to admit that it's a real possibility.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Could I see the quote, please.
As far as I know, it means that Exar+Kyp+Sun Crusher ???>??? Sidious.

Also, even if it would say Exar > Sidious, it was reconnected- Plagueis supremacy quote wasn't.

Additionally, it refers to what they might become, i.e. Kyp would be a Dark Side GM Luke and Exar Kun would return to his physical form, with all his trinkets and knowledge and prep time. Plus the Sun Crusher which can wipe out any army pretty casually.

And even then, it only lists it as a possibility, not a confirmed fact. And Sheev has other quotes that retcon it, even if it were a confirmed fact. AP is just reaching for high heavens, as always.

Originally posted by MythLord
Additionally, it refers to what they might become, i.e. Kyp would be a Dark Side GM Luke and Exar Kun would return to his physical form, with all his trinkets and knowledge and prep time. Plus the Sun Crusher which can wipe out any army pretty casually.

And even then, it only lists it as a possibility, not a confirmed fact. And Sheev has other quotes that retcon it, even if it were a confirmed fact. AP is just reaching for high heavens, as always.
Yeah, I know.
Ngl, DS Full potential Kyp alone would prolly be > Sidious, lol.

If he reaches his potential, yeah.

Originally posted by MythLord
Additionally, it refers to what they might become, i.e. Kyp would be a Dark Side GM Luke and Exar Kun would return to his physical form, with all his trinkets and knowledge and prep time. Plus the Sun Crusher which can wipe out any army pretty casually.

And even then, it only lists it as a possibility, not a confirmed fact. And Sheev has other quotes that retcon it, even if it were a confirmed fact. AP is just reaching for high heavens, as always.

LMFAO.

I've debunked this argument twice and yet again you're attempting to peddle it. It states that Exar Kun and Kyp Durron, even moreso than the aforementioned Sun Crusher, could become the greatest threat the NR has ever faced.

The relationship of Kun and Kyp is very clearly defined as a spirit leeching energy off of a host to fuel its own far greater power.

If you're able to comprehend the actual statement, it isn't just Reborn Palpatine, it is him and his Dark Empire, including all of his Dark Jedi. It is referring to every threat the NR had faced until then. Not specifically moreso than any single person. Palpatine is simply one amongst many.

And no, his statements don't mean a thing, because first of all he's already dead. Second of all, this is in reference to a potentially resurrected Exar Kun in Jedi Academy. Where said statements bare no relevance, because it is a theoretical character.

Not that this is the point, anyway.

Are you going to provide the quote AP or what?

EDIT: Lol read it and it's irrelevant, wouldn't bother debating it with AP considering she'll only cling to the idea that Kyp is irrelevant to Kun, and it's framed as only a possibility regardless.

More than evidence to the contrary though given Palpatine canonically > Kun.

So, this obviously does not refers to Fighting ability, but political power.

Hurr durr.

Srs tho this puts lid on the Kyp debate as far as I'm concerned.

Kyp doesn't have to be irrelevant for your claims to be laughably contradictory to the facts stated in the Jedi Academy Sourcebook. But this is you we're talking about.

Claims? The blurb is factual dear.

The blurb also has context.

Mmm, so to be clear Kyp may have been strong enough to bridge the gap across Kun<Vitiate<Plagueis<ROTS/ROTJ Palpatine<DE Palpatine, and his Dark Empire in addition as well.

"Feeble" lmao.

Beni, you forgot RotS Sids.

Tru edited.

Heck, there's even TPM Palpatine.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Tru edited.
Not RotS/RotJ Sidious, mah frind!
EoTPM Sidious < RotS Sidious < RotJ Sidious < DE Sidious

Lol too late.

Ur mum.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Mmm, so to be clear Kyp may have been strong enough to bridge the gap across Kun<Vitiate<Plagueis<ROTS/ROTJ Palpatine<DE Palpatine, and his Dark Empire in addition as well.

"Feeble" lmao.

My god, you're dense.

Do I really have to explain this in an even simpler manner for you?

Those quotes are completely irrelevant to JA Kun and his theoretical powers upon return.

sure thing dear, I believe u.

Anyway the inferences from the blurb are quite interesting:
The back cover also provides further context:Or in other words it seems to me that they are referring to the point at which Kun & Kyp combined their powers to defeat Luke, indeed proving "more powerful than even a Jedi Master can face" and perhaps a greater opponent than even DE Palpatine.

And if read that way tbh, what with the aforementioned chain + Kun > Spirit!Kun and frankly, it seems more likely that Kyp was providing most of the power. mmm

Which aligns pretty well with the JA description that it was the "full might" of Kyp Durron and only the "forbidden weapons" of Exar Kun (rather than Palpatine-tier power kekekek) that contributed to Luke's defeat, yeah.

You're literally ignoring a plethora of factual statements from numerous sources to make that argument. I won't bother arguing it, because we both know the case I'll make, which you'll inevitably ignore and just insult my capacity as a debater to make yourself feel better.

It is an undeniable fact that Exar Kun as a spirit used Kyp Durron as a source of energy to fuel his disembodied will. A vessel through which to channel some of his powers to attack people such as Corran Horn and Luke Skywalker. Kyp Durron was far more powerful than he otherwise would be due to this symbiotic possession.

Move on, nothing to see here.

Sounds like a concession.

This is basically Beniboybling vs. Official Sourcebooks, in which we all know the winner.

Beniboi of course.

Neph, can you provide a couple of examples where the blurb is contradicted by the actual book?