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Starrk.

The Bleach powerscale doesn't really make much sense, but Starrk was intended to be stronger.

Idk, I'm not so sure about that. Aizen implied that when Ichigo took his hollowfication "a step further" when he killed Ulquiorra, that he had grown even more powerful than Aizen himself. I personally think Ulquoirra would stomp Stark.

Stark was beaten by just Kyoraku and Ukitake, while both were in shikai form. At that point, Ichigo was roughly 3 times stronger than an average captain, with just his bankai alone. This is according to Unohana, who was undoubtedly the strongest of the captains. So presumably, Ichigo could have contended with Ukitake and Kyoraku together while just using his bankai, if both stuck to their shikai's. Ulquoirra literally broke Ichigo's mask with every hit he landed on him, while Ulquiorra was in his Ressureccion Segunda Etapa.

IMO, Ulquiorra was probably even stronger in his Ressureccion Segunda Etapa than Yammy was in his Ira form. Although it's still rather inconsistent, considering how superior even first ressurrecion Ulquiorra was to Vizard Ichigo, considering Ichigo was fairly around the level of Kyoraku and Ukitake.

If I imagined Ulquiorra in his first ressurrecion, I would imagine him beating Kyoraku and Ukitake with ease. Maybe that's just me, or the way Ulquoirra was portrayed, but I feel like Stark was VERY disappointing. So was Halibel, for that matter. The only Espada that were impressive at all compared to Ulquiorra, imo, were Barragan and Grimmjow.

Ulquiorra never showed Aizen his Segunda Etapa, and assuming he did, I'd say that he would been placed at least as #3 or #2. Now consider this, while Ulquiorra's Etapa form was immensely impressive, consider the power of one Cero, and then remember that Starrk was able to fire them almost instantaneously, and while the Cero Oscuras that Ulquiorra fired was stronger, it wasn't so much so to be considered more than ~50% stronger than his basic Cero. Taking this into account, the strength of Starrk's basic Cero would presumably be stronger than Ulquiorra's. Now with that in mind, the power of his Cero Metralleta would be insane. Starrk is still stronger, but not immensely.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Idk, I'm not so sure about that. Aizen implied that when Ichigo took his hollowfication "a step further" when he killed Ulquiorra, that he had grown even more powerful than Aizen himself. I personally think Ulquoirra would stomp Stark.

Stark was beaten by just Kyoraku and Ukitake, while both were in shikai form. At that point, Ichigo was roughly 3 times stronger than an average captain, with just his bankai alone. This is according to Unohana, who was undoubtedly the strongest of the captains. So presumably, Ichigo could have contended with Ukitake and Kyoraku together while just using his bankai, if both stuck to their shikai's. Ulquoirra literally broke Ichigo's mask with every hit he landed on him, while Ulquiorra was in his Ressureccion Segunda Etapa.

IMO, Ulquiorra was probably even stronger in his Ressureccion Segunda Etapa than Yammy was in his Ira form. Although it's still rather inconsistent, considering how superior even first ressurrecion Ulquiorra was to Vizard Ichigo, considering Ichigo was fairly around the level of Kyoraku and Ukitake.

If I imagined Ulquiorra in his first ressurrecion, I would imagine him beating Kyoraku and Ukitake with ease. Maybe that's just me, or the way Ulquoirra was portrayed, but I feel like Stark was VERY disappointing. So was Halibel, for that matter. The only Espada that were impressive at all compared to Ulquiorra, imo, were Barragan and Grimmjow.
He also beat Rose and Love.
Shunshui stabbed him in the back before their 2nd round and he didnt outpower Starrk he simply won because of that dumb game got him lucky.

Through the whole battle Starrk didnt even feel like wanting to fight.

Anyways dont think its a stomp either way.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Ulquiorra never showed Aizen his Segunda Etapa, and assuming he did, I'd say that he would been placed at least as #3 or #2. Now consider this, while Ulquiorra's Etapa form was immensely impressive, consider the power of one Cero, and then remember that Starrk was able to fire them almost instantaneously, and while the Cero Oscuras that Ulquiorra fired was stronger, it wasn't so much so to be considered more than ~50% stronger than his basic Cero. Taking this into account, the strength of Starrk's basic Cero would presumably be stronger than Ulquiorra's. Now with that in mind, the power of his Cero Metralleta would be insane. Starrk is still stronger, but not immensely.

That's not true at all. Stark's cero's didn't change in strength from his base form to his ressurecion. Ulquiorra's cero's increased MARGINALLY in strength. From the point where a cero in his base form was shrugged off by hollow Ichigo like it was nothing, to the point where his Cero Oscuras completely shattered Ichigo's mask in one hit. Ulquiorra's cero oscuras was demonstrably more powerful than any cero we saw in the anime, short of Yammy's in Ira form.

Ichigo's hollow mask makes him much stronger than just 50% more powerful.

The only reason that Ulquoirra wasn't higher than number 4 is because he hadn't shown anyone, Aizen included, his Ressurecion Segunda Etapa.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
That's not true at all. Stark's cero's didn't change in strength from his base form to his ressurecion. Ulquiorra's cero's increased MARGINALLY in strength. From the point where a cero in his base form was shrugged off by hollow Ichigo like it was nothing, to the point where his Cero Oscuras completely shattered Ichigo's mask in one hit. Ulquiorra's cero oscuras was demonstrably more powerful than any cero we saw in the anime, short of Yammy's in Ira form.

Ichigo's hollow mask makes him much stronger than just 50% more powerful.

The only reason that Ulquoirra wasn't higher than number 4 is because he hadn't shown anyone, Aizen included, his Ressurecion Segunda Etapa.

A Cero from his right pistol was stronger, while a Cero from his left was faster. I was also saying that Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras was roughly 50% stronger than his normal one. I don't disagree that it is one of the most impressive Cero demonstrations we've ever seen (behind Yami's Ira form), however, what I was saying is that the power of Starrk's Cero Metralleta must be insane, considering how powerful one basic Cero was.

I was referring to the power comparison of Ulquiorra's basic Cero vs his Cero Oscuras.

I agree with this, and stated it earlier.

I will also note that the only reasons he really lost was because of the stupid game and him not wanting to be fighting in the first place. His motivation continued to shrink as the other Espada went down, and nearly completely diminished when Lilynette died.

Shunshui said his pistol cero was much stronger.The left being stronger and right being faster thing was kinda debunked by Starrk."No one said anything like that."

Or maybe that part was only for the reload thing?

Also Kyoraku was about to use bankai when he got shot with cero metralleta but Ukitake stepped in and reversed it.

I think the spirit wolves could do good damage to Ulqiorra.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
A Cero from his right pistol was stronger, while a Cero from his left was faster. I was also saying that Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras was roughly 50% stronger than his normal one. I don't disagree that it is one of the most impressive Cero demonstrations we've ever seen (behind Yami's Ira form), however, what I was saying is that the power of Starrk's Cero Metralleta must be insane, considering how powerful one basic Cero was.

I was referring to the power comparison of Ulquiorra's basic Cero vs his Cero Oscuras.

I agree with this, and stated it earlier.

I will also note that the only reasons he really lost was because of the stupid game and him not wanting to be fighting in the first place. His motivation continued to shrink as the other Espada went down, and nearly completely diminished when Lilynette died.

No, Stark just made Kyoraku think that so that he could get him with a sneak attack. He even stated so. Both of his Cero guns were just as strong as each other. And again, Vizard Ichigo was stronger than Kyoraku, at least by a bit. So even Muricelago Ulquiorra should be stronger than Kyoraku in shikai. And Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra would have thrashed Ukitake and Kyoraku, if neither used bankai.

So all I'm saying is that Ulquiorra in his segunda etapa form was the strongest of all the Espada. Baring Yammy in Ira form, he had the highest fire power and durability, and he was definitely the fastest of the Espada.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No, Stark just made Kyoraku think that so that he could get him with a sneak attack. He even stated so. Both of his Cero guns were just as strong as each other. And again, Vizard Ichigo was stronger than Kyoraku, at least by a bit. So even Muricelago Ulquiorra should be stronger than Kyoraku in shikai. And Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra would have thrashed Ukitake and Kyoraku, if neither used bankai.

So all I'm saying is that Ulquiorra in his segunda etapa form was the strongest of all the Espada. Baring Yammy in Ira form, he had the highest fire power and durability, and he was definitely the fastest of the Espada.

Forgot about that, sorry. He had no trouble taking both of them on though. It was after he had taken out both Love and Rose in their Visard forms that he got stabbed Kyoraku's surprise Kageoni that he actually took any significant damage. It went downhill from there (primarily after Lilynette died), and he lost when he was unable to get the backup he needed from her, not to mention he presumably would've been somewhat depleted/weaker after taking on two Vizards and two Shikai-using Captains (perfectly matched up against his fighting style, I might add).

Again, I don't think he would be #1, but I definitely see Ulquiorra being #2.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Forgot about that, sorry. He had no trouble taking both of them on though. It was after he had taken out both Love and Rose in their Visard forms that he got stabbed Kyoraku's surprise Kageoni that he actually took any significant damage. It went downhill from there (primarily after Lilynette died), and he lost when he was unable to get the backup he needed from her, not to mention he presumably would've been somewhat depleted/weaker after taking on two Vizards and two Shikai-using Captains (perfectly matched up against his fighting style, I might add).

Again, I don't think he would be #1, but I definitely see Ulquiorra being #2.

Stark had plenty of trouble with them all. And he lost in the end. My whole point here is that Ulquiorra in his second Ressurecion would defeat them all by himself. This is supported by the fact that he was able to easily break hollow Ichigo's mask, despite Ichigo being stronger than any of the other Vizards. Ulquiorra would have broken Love's and Rose's masks' with a simple slap, and then kill them both with a Lanza del relampago. Then he would have killed Ukitake and Shunsui the same way.

If you can't prove that Vizard Bankai Ichigo would have no chance against Kyoraku and Ukitake, then you can't prove that Stark is stronger than Ulquiorra. Vizard Bankai Ichigo was much stronger than Shikai Vizards and much stronger than shikai captains like Ukitake and Shunsui. He would have probably been on par with Stark, to be honest. But Ulquiorra was stronger than him, even in his first ressureccion. And in Segunda Etapa? Ulquiorra dominated him effortlessly.

For lack of better argument, I concede

If Ichigo was much stronger then any captains how come 1st release Ulqiorra kicked his ass without even trying?

Ichigo couldnt do shit to Yammi while a holding back Kenpachi was doing great against him. He even told Ichigo to gtfo of the battlefield or he will kill him for being such a weak b1tch..

Him being stronger then any captain 4 timed is just a dumb statement with no proof or anything..

Harribel , Barragan, and Starrk are all leagues above 1st release Ulqiorra version yet the captains were doing well against them...

This isnt a stomp...

He's right. Ichigo is so weak that it's straight up bizarre. Most of the captains in the Arrancar/Hueco Mundo/Karakura Town arcs were more effective in their base forms than Ichigo was with his bankai released.

Unless we want to belive Toshiro(bankai), Shunshui, Ukitake or Soi Fon(Ban kai) are all below Ulqiorra 1st release which is simply dumb. Seeing how they all did good against Starrk, Barragan and Harribel and the numbers are ranked by Reiatsu.

Remember Ichigo bankai was useless against normal Ulqiorra till he used his mask even then he wasnt that much stronger
Saying bankai Ichigo would be on par with Starrk is laughable..

Any of the top 3 espadas would kick the shit out of Marciellago meaning they are all well above Vizard Ichigo.

Ichigo is simply weak compared to guys like Hitsugaya, Kenpachi, Byakuya and Komamura.



2nd release should be above Starrk but not by miles seing how much stronger the top 3 is.

Also reigai Ukitake and Shunsui were doing fairly well against Yamamoto while using only Shikai so they would definetly slaughter vizard Ichigo.

Starrk also never fought them seriously.

So you're saying that Ichigo was the weak link? It makes sense, tbh. He did nearly lose to awakened Grimmjow, while he was in hollowfied bankai... It doesn't make sense though, that Ichigo was able to go around beating captains in the SS arc, but then gets put down by Espada that Captains are winning against.

We know that 1st form Ulqiorra is leagues above Vizard Ichigo. So Im 100% he has no chance against the top 3 in their released form.
We know that going by reiatsu it should be:

Starrk
Barragan
Harribel
Ulqiorra

So in their 1st release its safe to say the order stays the same.
2nd release should bump him by a large margin I say he could more powerful then Starrk but not by that much.

Kurosaki usually wins via stupid plot. Orihime whinnin or the you are stronger but I came to win thing.



Kenpachi calling Ichigo weak. After the Ulqiorra fight.

yCWJ2claZEY

Originally posted by Estacado
We know that 1st form Ulqiorra is leagues above Vizard Ichigo. So Im 100% he has no chance against the top 3 in their released form.
We know that going by reiatsu it should be:

Starrk
Barragan
Harribel
Ulqiorra

So in their 1st release its safe to say the order stays the same.
2nd release should bump him by a large margin I say he could more powerful then Starrk but not by that much.

Kurosaki usually wins via stupid plot. Orihime whinnin or the you are stronger but I came to win thing.



Kenpachi calling Ichigo weak. After the Ulqiorra fight.

yCWJ2claZEY

Sure, that's sound logic, but Ichigo is in no way weaker than Toshiro or the other captains. None of the Hueco Mundo arc made sense at all.

First, Byakuya goes in and nearly dies to the 7th espada, then while wounded and weakened goes on to treat the 0 espada like a child? No damn way. That would literally be like Renji going off to beat Stark while still injured from fighting Szael Apporo.

Then Kenpachi gets nearly killed by Nnoitora, and then goes and treats Yammy like a child, JUST LIKE BYAKUYA? Why is it that Ichigo nearly died against Ulquiorra, but when he went to fight Yammy, could barely even scratch him?

None of that makes sense. Bleach is dumb.

Byakuya was holding back till that dude removed Rukia from the battlefield possibly he didnt want her to get hurt then he went bankai and killed 7th espada in an instant.

Yammi was trolling Nnoitra the whole time he 1 shot killed him with a 2 hand swing.

Originally posted by Estacado
Byakuya was holding back till that dude removed Rukia from the battlefield possibly he didnt want her to get hurt then he went bankai and killed 7th espada in an instant.

Yammi was trolling Nnoitra the whole time he 1 shot killed him with a 2 hand swing.

Yeah, and Bankai Ichigo previously blew away Byakuya's bankai with ease. I'm saying that the power scaling here doesn't make sense. According to what you're saying, Ichigo was one of the weakest characters in the series, and that DIRECTLY contradicts what Unohana said about him being 3 times stronger than an average captain, when Hitsugaya is around average captain level. That should have made Ichigo in bankai alone able to thrash Halibel. Yet he got rofl-stomped by Muricelago.

In that way it really doesnt make sense.

Though Ichigo always had the Im Ichigo I have to win card.

Imo thats why he beat Grimmjow, Byakuya, Kenpachi.

Not cause he was stronger but simply the main hero has to win.

Kinda like how Goku did it in Gt all the time.

Originally posted by Estacado


In that way it really doesnt make sense.

Though Ichigo always had the Im Ichigo I have to win card.

Imo thats why he beat Grimmjow, Byakuya, Kenpachi.

Not cause he was stronger but simply the main hero has to win.

Kinda like how Goku did it in Gt all the time.

Well GT is universally acknowledged as the inconsistent trash it is.

Bleach should be held to a higher standard. Hell, any anime should be held to a higher standard than GT.

But yeah, you're right. Although I think Ulquiorra was still stronger than any other espada. Idk, none of it makes sense tbh.

Starrk with his power to the maximun and mercilessly.