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1. Sabers

2. Force

3. All-Out

Not this again

I didn't even know there was a thread of this made xD

Luke is better though, hell, Palpatine is better.

1. Luke Skywalker
2. Valkorion
3. Valkorion

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I didn't even know there was a thread of this made xD

How could this thread not have been made before?

Originally posted by JKBart
1. Luke Skywalker
2. Valkorion
3. Valkorion Whats Valky's best feat?

Using Lightning to overwhelm Revan?

Palpatine could do that, hell, Luke has lightning too, he could do that.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Whats Valky's best feat?

Using Lightning to overwhelm Revan?

Palpatine could do that, hell, Luke has lightning too, he could do that.

rofl

not responding to trolling

Originally posted by JKBart
rofl

not responding to logic

Fixed it.

If you really think overpowering Revan with Lightning is Valky's best feat then I'm afraid you're entire SWTOR behind my friend

The idea that Luke could overwhelm Revan with emerald lightning is also kinda laughable.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Whats Valky's best feat?

Using Lightning to overwhelm Revan?

Palpatine could do that, hell, Luke has lightning too, he could do that.

He killed the planet Ziost.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The idea that Luke could overwhelm Revan with emerald lightning is also kinda laughable. Emarald lightning is > Purple Lightning.

As if the color of lightning was representative of it's power.

Yeah, Green is the color of the Hulk so Luke uses it when he gets mad and wins.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The idea that Luke could overwhelm Revan with emerald lightning is also kinda laughable.

Seriously? Someone of Luke's power?

Luke takes every round 10/10, btw.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Seriously? Someone of Luke's power?

Being powerful doesn't guarantee that every ability you use will be equally overwhelming. Nothing Luke's ever done with lightning has given me even the slightest impression he could put down someone like Revan with it.

Originally posted by JKBart
1. Luke Skywalker
2. Valkorion
3. Valkorion

Finally, another thread created thats just as dumb as anything Ellimist has been posting.

Luke wins, and what a colossal clash it would be.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Being powerful doesn't guarantee that every ability you use will be equally overwhelming. Nothing Luke's ever done with lightning has given me even the slightest impression he could put down someone like Revan with it.

There is clearly a correlation between general power and individual abilities, and one of Luke's traits is how quickly he learns and develops techniques. The lightning itself instantly killed a Force resistant slayer, a sick one being able to best Kyp Durron.

If that doesn't work he just ragdolls.

Originally posted by JKBart
If you really think overpowering Revan with Lightning is Valky's best feat then I'm afraid you're entire SWTOR behind my friend

To respond to this seriously, what are Valkorion/Vitiate's best feats? Certainly not dominating featless and already unstable pre-KotOR Revan and Malak on a dark side nexus, or one-shotting a dark council on said nexus with prep, on his own turf, using a technique he conveniently never replicates. I'm hoping it isn't beating Tol Braga, or the Act I Hero, or some random nobodies, or one-shotting powerhouses like Darth Marr. And it's kinda sad if it's the prepped, nexus-driven Ziost ritual.

Like, seriously, what has Valkorion done exactly to put him on peak Luke's level? Has he tanked the telekinesis of a guy drawing on the Force potential of trillions? Has he moved black holes? Has he pinned a >Vader Force user to his chair without even gesturing? What has he done?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
There is clearly a correlation between general power and individual abilities, and one of Luke's traits is how quickly he learns and develops techniques. The lightning itself instantly killed a Force resistant slayer, a sick one being able to best Kyp Durron.
I would expect Luke Skywalker's Force Lightning to be potent but comparing it with Valkorion's is really stretching it.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
If that doesn't work he just ragdolls.
Luke Skywalker is not ragdolling Valkorion.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
To respond to this seriously, what are Valkorion/Vitiate's best feats? Certainly not dominating featless and already unstable pre-KotOR Revan and Malak on a dark side nexus, or one-shotting a dark council on said nexus with prep, on his own turf, using a technique he conveniently never replicates. I'm hoping it isn't beating Tol Braga, or the Act I Hero, or some random nobodies, or one-shotting powerhouses like Darth Marr. And it's kinda sad if it's the prepped, nexus-driven Ziost ritual.
You deserve an award for your lowballing efforts.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Like, seriously, what has Valkorion done exactly to put him on peak Luke's level? Has he tanked the telekinesis of a guy drawing on the Force potential of trillions?
Force-potential of trillions? Kindly remind me what UnuThul have done in the grand scheme of things that is worth boasting about?

Raynar Thul was a below-average Jedi prior to his transformation. And it is unclear how much the killiks would have augmented his strength. Certainly not enough to challenge Luke Skywalker.

---

Lord Vivicar was drawing on the power of hundreds of Jedi Masters across the galaxy and Barsen'thor III kicked his @ss even after experiencing deteriorating effects of a shielding technique.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Has he moved black holes?
You mean Vong manifestations? Something that a Darth Vader level individual could pull off?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Has he pinned a >Vader Force user to his chair without even gesturing? What has he done?
Darth Caedus being stronger than Darth Vader isn't solidly established.

Luke

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You deserve an award for your lowballing efforts.


Nice argument.



You know, how you brag about how Vitiate had the power of 8000 sith lords, .i.e. substantially less midichlorians?

UnuThul has mentally dominated scores of Jedi at once, bent back turbolasers, and threatened Luke, though appealing to the latter is circular. That he didn't appear for a large number of pages doesn't negate his power; that's just a question of exposure.




It was trillions of them.



That's the point, lmao.

But I would note that Luke is described as "the essence" of an immovable object, and that a black hole wouldn't have budged him - we've already been over the literal nature of this quote, of which it is indeed literal - but I'm not going to go over debating your second language with you.



Your downplaying of the same hype you employ regularly for your own favorites is funny enough, but hundreds of Jedi masters =/= trillions of killiks, obviously.



Nice circular logic there, but the fact that they're artificial doesn't change the mechanisms/physics behind them, and ergo how we can calculate their masses. To suggest otherwise, you'd have to demonstrate that the mechanism in question is fundamentally distinct. You employ the same logic to dismiss Palpatine's Force storms.

Seriously, this is like claiming that bending stress doesn't apply to "artificial" objects, only "real" ones.



It's more solidly substantiated than your own frequent usage of in-person characters such as Nyriss to assert claims of events 1000 years before their birth.


So once again, we have Luke demonstrating far superior combat speed, versatility, telekinesis, and dominating of a superior combatant (Caedus) to anyone Valkorion has defeated. Luke steamrolls.

Nice job with your "nuh uh" argument ellimist. Truly classic work

Luke sweeps in an insanely close fight.

I can see a case being made either way tho, tbh. At least in regards to Force and all-out.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo

I can see a case being made either way tho, tbh. At least in regards to Force and all-out.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Luke sweeps in an insanely close fight.

I can see a case being made either way tho, tbh. At least in regards to Force and all-out.

From Luke's weaker showings he would lose, but peak, non-jobbing Luke beats him every time.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Nice argument.
When you make assertions like:

1. Pre-KoTOR Revan and Malak are featless and unstable?
2. One-shotting a Dark Council on a nexus with prep?
3. Prepped nexus-driven Ziost ritual?

You overlooking certain elements in the story and lowballing accomplishments of Vitiate as a consequence.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
You know, how you brag about how Vitiate had the power of 8000 sith lords, .i.e. substantially less midichlorians?
I never asserted this.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
UnuThul has mentally dominated scores of Jedi at once,
Example?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
bent back turbolasers,
Example?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
and threatened Luke, though appealing to the latter is circular.
Exar Kun threatened him
Lord Nyax threatened him
Lumiya threatened him

Originally posted by The Ellimist
That he didn't appear for a large number of pages doesn't negate his power; that's just a question of exposure.
Right.

Why not extend this logic to characters you are not much fond of?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
It was trillions of them.
Quote?

I told you that Raynar Thul was a below-average Jedi prior to his transformation. He became powerful by drawing from the strength of Killicks but not to an extent that he would be perceived as the most powerful Force-user in the galaxy. He could not defeat Luke Skywalker and its a negative for him.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
That's the point, lmao.

But I would note that Luke is described as "the essence" of an immovable object, and that a black hole wouldn't have budged him - we've already been over the literal nature of this quote, of which it is indeed literal - but I'm not going to go over debating your second language with you.
That quote is hyperbolic; it is just a fanciful interpretation of Luke's anchoring feat.

Luke Skywalker cannot resist the pull off a cosmic black hole in literal sense, should he find himself in the Event Horizon. I am sure that Luke won't be enthusiastic about experiencing a cosmic black hole.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Your downplaying of the same hype you employ regularly for your own favorites is funny enough, but hundreds of Jedi masters =/= trillions of killiks, obviously.
Hundreds of Jedi Masters, collectively, represent a substantial pool of energy to draw from. Even trillions of mooks won't offer equal reservoir of strength.

Did Palpatine become unstoppable by drawing on the energy of Byss's population? No

Did Abeloth become unstoppable by drawing on the energy of Coruscant's population? No

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Nice circular logic there, but the fact that they're artificial doesn't change the mechanisms/physics behind them, and ergo how we can calculate their masses. To suggest otherwise, you'd have to demonstrate that the mechanism in question is fundamentally distinct. You employ the same logic to dismiss Palpatine's Force storms.

Seriously, this is like claiming that bending stress doesn't apply to "artificial" objects, only "real" ones.
Vong manifestations are certainly similar in nature but they are a lot less powerful than their cosmic counterparts. A Vong manifestation would dissipate after absorbing a missile or object. You don't expect the same from a cosmic black hole.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
It's more solidly substantiated than your own frequent usage of in-person characters such as Nyriss to assert claims of events 1000 years before their birth.
I am not convinced.

Darth Vader have relatively superior feats.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
So once again, we have Luke demonstrating far superior combat speed,
Wrong.

Vitiate have killed (incredibly fast) Force-users before they could even react.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
versatility,
Like?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
telekinesis,
Vitiate isn't much into using Telekinesis. However, he is expected to be TOP-TIER in this area.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
and dominating of a superior combatant (Caedus) to anyone Valkorion has defeated. Luke steamrolls.
Luke Skywalker managed to dominate Darth Caedus only once, probably caught him off-guard. Second encounter with Darth Caedus proved to be a lot more brutal experience for him.

Darth Caedus proved to be a pain in the @ss of Luke in the long-term, imagine what Vitiate would do to him.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Nice job with your "nuh uh" argument ellimist. Truly classic work

Ellimist's arguments are 10x better than LeGenD's lol.

psmith is wayyyyyy too biased to notice that, dude.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Hundreds of Jedi Masters, collectively, represent a substantial pool of energy to draw from. Even trillions of mooks won't offer equal reservoir of strength.

Did Palpatine become unstoppable by drawing on the energy of Byss's population? No

Did Abeloth become unstoppable by drawing on the energy of Coruscant's population? No.

Huge double standard here. Vivicar didn't come close to being unstoppable. A severely weakened Act I Consular trounced him and still had enough left in the tank to use the Shielding Technique on him again to exorcise Morrhage's spirit. The Plague is literally the only thing to Vivicar's credit. He's obviously a rather pitiful combatant.

Not to mention that it's hilariously glaring strawman. Nowhere did Ellimist claim that UnuThul was unstoppable.

I think it's a reference to some quote about Vivicar being unstoppable, which is, of course, hyperbole and contradicted by the fact that a severely weakened Act I Barsen'thor (who doesn't even count among the elite pantheon of Jedi, especially in that state) trounced him with enough left in the tank for another application of the Shielding Technique.

Morrhage/Vivicar's a skilled alchemist, but not a skilled combatant

I'm hoping this isn't the quote where Vivicar claims that "Soon I'll be unstoppable" or something to that effect. I mean, if we're going off character statements about themselves, then Palpatine once said "I am the dark side" which is checkmate to Valkorion.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Huge double standard here. Vivicar didn't come close to being unstoppable. A severely weakened Act I Consular trounced him and still had enough left in the tank to use the Shielding Technique on him again to exorcise Morrhage's spirit. The Plague is literally the only thing to Vivicar's credit. He's obviously a rather pitiful combatant.
Never said that Vivicar was unstoppable.

This is strawman.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Ellimist's arguments are 10x better than LeGenD's lol.
Sheevites complementing each other is getting old. You should retire, old man.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Never said that Vivicar was unstoppable.

You had Palpatine and Abeloth's Drain feats marked down as inferior to Vivicar's feeding off hundreds of Masters because they weren't unstoppable. Why would that matter unless Vivicar is? Logical fallacy either way.

Originally posted by SunRazer
You had Palpatine and Abeloth's Drain feats marked down as inferior to Vivicar's feeding off hundreds of Masters because they weren't unstoppable. Why would that matter unless Vivicar is? Logical fallacy either way.
Strawman again.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Strawman again.

Your point was a strawman, because nobody advanced the pre-requisite of being "unstoppable", hence your mentions of it as apparent pre-requisites in Palpatine and Abeloth's cases are red herrings and strawmans. You're also appealing to ignorance if you're suggesting that Vivicar ambiguously feeding off hundreds of Masters in an unquantified proportion is inherently better than feeding off trillions of Killiks.

I'm addressing exactly what you brought up - not something non-existent. So it's not a strawman in my case

Originally posted by SunRazer
How can a question be a strawman?

Yet another logical fallacy.
You are attributing an argument to me that I never made. Therefore, strawman.

I am simply pointing out that leeching off energy of billions of mooks doesn't results in substantial gain in power in a short span of time. The examples of Palpatine and Abeloth reinforce this assessment.

Vivicar was leeching off energy of hundreds of Jedi Masters and his growth in power might have been faster. He felt that he would surpass everybody, given sufficient time. I did not claim that Vivcar actually surpassed UnuThul, Palpatine and Abeloth at the time of his confrontation with Barsen'thor.

I edited my post, and you did make that argument. I'll ask again - why did you bring up being "unstoppable" unless you're portending that it was a trait of Vivicar's? After all, your argument was that hundreds of Masters > trillions of Killiks.

The last time I asked, you said it was a strawman, LOL. Now that's a textbook strawman.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are attributing an argument to me that I never made. Therefore, strawman.

And you attributed an argument to Ellimist that was never made. Therefore, strawman on your part. It's not a strawman on mine to point it out.



How so?



So an appeal to ignorance?



And Palpatine felt that he was the dark side. Try again.

Originally posted by SunRazer
How so?
UnuThul failed to defeat Luke Skywalker, right?

Palpatine failed to outduel Luke Skywalker, right?

Abeloth failed to defeat her enemies, right?

So why should I believe that leeching off energy of billions of mooks would make substantial difference in a short span of time?

Originally posted by SunRazer
So an appeal to ignorance?
10,000 Jedi collectively > population of a planet in the aspect of Force-sensitivity. Perhaps population of several planets put together.

Originally posted by SunRazer
And Palpatine felt that he was the dark side. Try again.
Irrelevant.

Originally posted by SunRazer
And you attributed an argument to Ellimist that was never made. Therefore, strawman on your part. It's not a strawman on mine to point it out.
There is no strawman on my part. Don't poke your nose in an exchange of arguments that you failed to grasp.

Ellimist claimed that UnuThul might have become super-strong by virtue of leeching off energy of supposedly trillions of killicks. And that Luke Skywalker had to be > a supermassive cosmic black hole to mute his assault. This is nonsense. I had to remind him that UnuThul did not benefit from leeching off energy of a large number of killiks as much as you are implying; he failed to defeat Luke Skywalker and/or enslave every Jedi in the galaxy. I cited examples of Palpatine and Abeloth in this respect, to lend credibility to my stance on the matter.

Legend, I want to you lay your cards out on the table more clearly. What, in your opinion, are Valkorion's 5-7 or so most important feats/accolades that you think give him the win?

Luke solidly

Valkorion in a phenomenal fight.

I see a strong argument for either being made. Valkorion has numerous ways to avoid engaging in a melee conflict, primarily his teleportation, which also gives him the advantage of easily getting into superior vantage points for Force assaults. Luke is definitely fast enough to avoid most of Valkorions attacks, and strong enough to defend against most (if not all) of his powers that Luke knows. While this is a large possibility, we have no evidence of this, so it will not be considered. We don't have many TK feats for Valky of major note (at least ones comparing to anything Luke has done), so Luke obviously has an advantage here. I would consider Emerald Lightning to be extremely potent, however, I don't personally believe that it can, nor should, be seriously compared to Valkorion's as being equal. I would scale the lightning feat from chapter 8 of KotFE to be at least on par with Luke's Slayer one, but we know that it is not his maximum output of power. Arcann states that it's weaker after surviving the primary focus of Valkorion-Outlander's onslaught. We can scale how much weaker by observing the instance of Valkorion downing Arcann with a smaller, nearly uncharged blast of FL, and a significantly larger, effort-filled assault being resisted briefly by Arcann. Granted he presumably grew in power since his last encounter with his Father, but I digress. Overall, I'd give a slight edge to Valkorion in all-out assuming Luke can't get an opening to abuse his melee advantage, in which case he would win.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Valkorion in a phenomenal fight.


Based on what feats/abilities/accolades? EDIT: I guess you elaborate below.



I think it's a dubious assumption to say that Valkorion can just teleport arbitrarily without any exertion, seeing as how he doesn't do this on many occasions when it would benefit him. It seems more likely that this skill requires some level of concentration and expenditure.



The lightning just disabled some electronics on some ships. Luke has:

- used TK to literally crush to dust a fortress that reached above storm clouds and then tossed it all away, before his prime
- mused about how he could tear the hulls off of warships
- tanked the TK of someone who could arc back turbolasers
- pinned to his chair a guy (Caedus) more powerful than Darth Vader, who we can powerscale off of Starkiller

I don't see how Valkorion is overwhelming him with lightning, he doesn't have the edge in TK, he's not touching him with TP, he's obviously not lasting long in melee, at most he can teleport around and play cat and mouse for a bit.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I think it's a dubious assumption to say that Valkorion can just teleport arbitrarily without any exertion, seeing as how he doesn't do this on many occasions when it would benefit him. It seems more likely that this skill requires some level of concentration and expenditure.

Granted, if we were to ignore in-game combat, not that we shouldn't 99% of the time.



Originally posted by The Ellimist
The lightning just disabled some electronics on some ships.

Correction: it killed the pilots and damaged some circuitry (it's not evident how much or what was affected).

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Luke has:

- used TK to literally crush to dust a fortress that reached above storm clouds and then tossed it all away, before his prime
- mused about how he could tear the hulls off of warships
- tanked the TK of someone who could arc back turbolasers
- pinned to his chair a guy (Caedus) more powerful than Darth Vader, who we can powerscale off of Starkiller

I acknowledge these things, and agree on all of your TK points (as stated in my previous post).

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I don't see how Valkorion is overwhelming him with lightning, he doesn't have the edge in TK, he's not touching him with TP, he's obviously not lasting long in melee, at most he can teleport around and play cat and mouse for a bit.

I explained the lightning part, agree with the TK point, don't necessarily disagree with TP either, and again melee we share views, however, we don't know for sure his limitations on teleportation, nor do we have solid examples of situations where Valkorion can resist Luke's TK, but it can easily be inferred that he has substantial defenses against such attacks (if we were to permit assumptions here, which is frequently necessary when discussing hypothetical engagements such as this). Overall I agree that Luke would more likely hold the victory edge here, but not by so much as to give him any clear-cut win.

Valkorion can stop time so he wins.

I think Skywalker can win in a fight, but Valkorion is more powerful.

Originally posted by Tondemonai ]
Correction: it killed the pilots and damaged some circuitry (it's not evident how much or what was affected).


Right, and honestly that's less destructive power than what Luke can do with his TK anyway.



Right, so if Valkorion's demonstrated lightning is weaker than what Luke has outputted, it's a stretch to argue that it could overwhelm him.



Sure, but it's a logical conclusion given his lack of abuse of it. In either case, I think Luke has better Force feats anyway.



Sure, and we don't really have an upper limit on Valkorion's abilities - given what he's demonstrated, he hasn't been as impressive combatively as Luke as his peak. That doesn't mean he couldn't blow up a planet in the next expansion, but is it probable? Nah.



Oh, ok. I think the ambiguity comes from the lack of upper limits - I don't think it can be disputed that Luke has better showings.

Overall I personally believe that Luke would win an all-out confrontation roughly 60% of the time, given that we don't have any real known limitations on Valkorion's power we can easily assume when he's giving a shit he would be far more impressive than what we've seen, but again, what we've seen isn't very impressive combat-wise beyond his FL feats.

On the subject of the chapter 8 feat, it's impressive for the fact that what was doing that was just the rollover energy of the blast; as in the excess stuff that wasn't focused on the primary target and just escaped the intended target. The magnitude of the focal blast must've been massive, but we can only speculate how powerful it really was, and how powerful it would've been had it not been "weaker" than it normally would've been.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
UnuThul failed to defeat Luke Skywalker, right?

Palpatine failed to outduel Luke Skywalker, right?

Abeloth failed to defeat her enemies, right?

So why should I believe that leeching off energy of billions of mooks would make substantial difference in a short span of time?

Leeching and channeling are different things. UnuThul was literally capable of drawing on the Force potential of all the Killiks, as the text states. Palpatine slowly feeding off Byss isn't comparable, nor is Vivicar, who had actually yet to feed off all those Jedi Masters, or at least in any meaningful way.



Vivicar mentioned hundreds, not tens of thousands of Jedi. And it's trillions of Killiks. If you understand what that number is, you'll understand that it's tens of billions of times greater than what Vivicar mentioned. Somehow I don't think the fact that they're Jedi make up for tens of billions of times difference in magnitude.



Except you were talking about what Vivicar boasted to a Jedi, and I responded in kind with something that Palpatine boasted to a Jedi to expose the flaws in using that logic. Sith are full of themselves and make presumptive boasts to intimidate their opponents or out of sheer arrogance.

My point is that neither are correct. So yes, my point is relevant, or else you'd be saying that your point was irrelevant. Take your pick.

Also the combined midichlorian count of trillions of non-Force sensitives is still greater than that of hundreds of Jedi, even if you ignore the fact that only UnuThul is explicitly stated to have direct access to their potential.

The fact that it explicitly mentions him drawing on their Force potential means its valid to bring up the midichlorian argument, tbh, as stupid as it is. And trillions of Killiks >>> Hundreds of Jedi. There's not that many more midichlorians per cell or even overall for each Jedi.

And Vivicar wasn't actually leeching off all those Jedi in any meaningful way yet, IIRC.

Please, that's definitely not how UnuThul worked. Trillions of non-force sensitives is collectively greater than Luke's potential as well, yet a serious Luke trashed him and was able to make himself utterly immovable by UnuThul's TK. Lets not pretend that Thul was leeching off of the Kiliks in a meaningful way either.

Luke's full potential is supposed to be analogous to Anakin's, which is what, Father tier?

Or Luke is that powerful.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Luke's full potential is supposed to be analogous to Anakin's, which is what, Father tier?

No.

Anakin was about twice Sidious' potential, who was under 20,000.

Luke's midichlorian count is nowhere near 100 ****ing trillion, dipstick.

Luke has realized more of that potential than UnuThul would have, and he'd be more skilled, etc.

It is implied that UnuThul is actually more powerful than him.

UnuThul with 1% of that potential would still be thousands of times stronger than Luke.

It is Father tier, lol. FP Anakin could wreck the Son & Daughter at once, and Luke's comparable to that. Also, what Ellimist said.

Don't care for the stats, lol.

No he isn't, in any way, shape or form. Anakin only did that because he's the Chosen One and he was using Mortis. He's not billions of times stronger than any other force user.

You're the one who brought up the stats that trillions of trash would be mathematically superior to hundreds of Jedi Masters.

Yeah, either Mortakin is indicative of something beyond his natural potential, or he's much more than 2X Sidious. Pick one.

That being said, I have a difficult time seeing Anakin's descendants inheriting his full mortakin potential if they can't even take Abeloth in states of Oneness.

A shittier version of Abeloth, too.

Ah yes, FOTJ Abeloth. I derped for a moment and didn't even consider that.

Regardless, Luke is nowhere near that level. He's not just "that powerful" that he can totally shrug off the actual collective (very low estimate of) 100 trillion midichlorian pool that UnuThul is supposedly using.

So obviously UnuThul's power drawn from the Kiliks isn't near the BIG NYMBERSSS! that they hype him with.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No he isn't, in any way, shape or form. Anakin only did that because he's the Chosen One and he was using Mortis. He's not billions of times stronger than any other force user.

You're the one who brought up the stats that trillions of trash would be mathematically superior to hundreds of Jedi Masters.

Regardless of what we're debating, this is exactly what the text says:



Which is still way better than anything Vivicar had going for him.

Do you want to know what happens next?



That's pretty much the point I was making. And when I brought up the trillions of trash, that's just logic, lol. I didn't bother with the calculations.

Yes, thank you I've read the book. It doesn't change the fact that its obvious bullshit. You can replace it with "REALLY STRONK" and it'd have the same meaning.

You can replace any "really powerful" moment with that and it'd work.

Just scale from Nathema and Ziost.

Originally posted by SunRazer
It is Father tier, lol. FP Anakin could wreck the Son & Daughter at once, and Luke's comparable to that.
Here:

He would not choose. Drawing upon the Force that was all around them in that place, the warrior subdued both the Son and the Daughter and made them release his friends.

Taken from Force and Destiny: Core RuleBook

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Luke has realized more of that potential than UnuThul would have, and he'd be more skilled, etc.

It is implied that UnuThul is actually more powerful than him. Why was Ellimist banned?

Because he was constantly trolling.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Here:

He would not choose. Drawing upon the Force that was all around them in that place, the warrior subdued both the Son and the Daughter and made them release his friends.

Taken from Force and Destiny: Core RuleBook
Because the Son and the Daughter don't use the Force!...Oh, wait.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Regardless of what we're debating, this is exactly what the text says:



Which is still way better than anything Vivicar had going for him.

Do you want to know what happens next?



That's pretty much the point I was making. And when I brought up the trillions of trash, that's just logic, lol. I didn't bother with the calculations.
TBH, Luke used Oneness to defeat UnuThul. That isn't related to his own Force strength.