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All-out, 10 meters starting distance.

Jadus.

Dooku wins.

If Jadus > Dooku, then Valk >> Sids.

Or powerscaling is retarded.

Dooku

Originally posted by Syndicate
Jadus.
> Tells me I lowball Dooku
> Has him losing to flacking Jadus

You mean, the greatest Sith produced in the 1300 years of Vitiates Empire? The guy who shielded a capital ship from obliteration and then mindfvcked its crew into mindless worship, harms others with his mere presence and can teleport?

Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean, the greatest Sith produced in the 1300 years of Vitiates Empire? The guy who shielded a capital ship from obliteration and then mindfvcked its crew into mindless worship, harms others with his mere presence and can teleport?

Not much of that matters in combat

Teleportation and his strength in the Force obviously matters.

yes but the rest is irrelevant

Teleportation is overrated tbh

Well Dooku's big advantage is his saber skills, but if Jadus can teleport away and continue smashing him with the Force that's a significant factor imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean, the greatest Sith produced in the 1300 years of Vitiates Empire? The guy who shielded a capital ship from obliteration and then mindfvcked its crew into mindless worship, harms others with his mere presence and can teleport?

Dooku was one of the most powerful Jedi produced in the 25.000 years of the Order, equal/comparable to Mace who was the second most powerful Jedi in the Order in all of history(with the exception of Yoda and maybe Yaddle) then grew(supposedly by a considerable margin) as a Sith.

He can shield a capital ship, yet died to an Imperial Agent. Par excellence.

Mind-f*cking non Force sensitives isn't what I call impressive.

Harming with his mere presence? Who? Non Force sensitives? Again, par excellence. Means shit against one of the absolute greatest Sith in history.

I'd like to see Jadus teleport with his head lobbed off, though.

Dooku's so damn under-appreciated

Lol @ Windu as being the second most powerful Jedi in history compared to Anakin, Revan, the HoT, 'Thor, Fey, Nomi and others. And WTF Yaddle????? Are you trolling me? Jadus' accolade is superior, he wasn't "one of" the best which is ambiguous and gives us no concrete placement of him, he was supposedly "the best" which compares him to people like Nyriss, Baras, Thanaton, Malgus, Nox, Marr, those two Sith who demolished the Citadel etc

Wtf, he didn't die to an Imperial Agent. The whole point of that fight is that it is literally impossible for the Agent to beat him or significantly harm him in any way. You can only lightly damage him and then trap him when he heals himself.

Better than what Dooku's done, tbh. Dude got captured by pirates and thought Obi-Wan's simple mind-trick was impressive, lol.

It's an indication of his immense power.

You can decapitate what you can't catch.

Yeah Dooku literally got tied up by bounty hunters, fat chance of beating Jadus.

Jadus being repeatedly beaten by a pre-prime Agent isn't that convincing, either.

Repeatedly? The Agent failed to beat Jadus even once.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Repeatedly? The Agent failed to beat Jadus even once.

For the people who take TOR's game mechanics at face value and have Malgus choking the Protags, etc. - there's no denying that Jadus gets beaten multiple times, heals himself back to full strength, and loses again. And the last time, his guards come in, also get butchered, and then the Agent activates the forcefield. Which, funnily enough, Jadus couldn't teleport out of.

Which isn't you is it? So is this a concession or a change of heart? On the other hand the SWTORE says the Agent had little hope of defeating him in combat so there we go.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Which isn't you is it? So is this a concession or a change of heart? On the other hand the SWTORE says the Agent had little hope of defeating him in combat so there we go.

I'm referring to Neph, who jokingly brought up the pirate showing and you jokingly agreed with it. Not exactly a proper argument, so why does it have to be responded with a proper argument? An unrealistic and stupid low showing can be responded to with just the same thing. I hope you don't seriously think I believe that the Agent can repeatedly beat Jadus in a fight.

That being said, by all means, if the Agent actually had a chance of beating Jadus, that's pretty damn pitiful. That doesn't excuse Jadus from not quickly destroying the Agent or failing to teleport out of the forcefield, though. As powerful as he is, his combative ability hasn't impressed me.

I was referring to a different instance, in Dark Disciple Count Dooku is taken down by a group of bounty hunters from Boba's gang, so yeah, that's about as legit an argument as your own. And I eagerly await your counter response.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I was referring to a different instance, in Dark Disciple Count Dooku is taken down by a group of bounty hunters from Boba's gang, so yeah, that's about as legit an argument as your own. And I eagerly await your counter response.

Indeed you did. I read your post wrong.

But that aside, I don't even remember which Bounty Hunters were involved, so I can't answer that decisively. But Bounty Hunters fight unconventionally and differently to Jadus or any Jedi/Sith, so that's not a valid argument in Jadus' favor. And then there's the fact that this could well just be a low showing.

You've also yet to respond to my point about Jadus failing to destroy the Agent quickly or failing to teleport out of the forcefield for two posts, now.

Dooku's form was made for lightsaber combat so cut him some slack.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Indeed you did. I read your post wrong.

But that aside, I don't even remember which Bounty Hunters were involved, so I can't answer that decisively. But Bounty Hunters fight unconventionally and differently to Jadus or any Jedi/Sith, so that's not a valid argument in Jadus' favor. And then there's the fact that this could well just be a low showing.And Cipher 9 doesn't? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember the Agent running at him with a lightsaber. What a way to shoot yourself in the foot.

Regardless it was Boba Fett, Bossk, Embo, Latts Razzi and Highsinger and they had him trussed up and beaten:

"Suddenly Vos's head whipped to the side. Following his gaze, Ventress saw something thoroughly unexpected-Count Dooku, trapped in some sort of webbing, lying on the ground with Bossk's blaster aimed at his head."

So given that, what proof is there that he would succeed where Jadus failed in killing Cipher 9 (supported by Kaliyo is we are being accurate), one of the "galaxy's greatest champions", when he couldn't kill a single one of these bounty hunters, who beat him instead?Yes I have lol, the DD example is a direct response to that, little slow on the uptake aren't you.

EDIT: Oh and as for failing to teleport out of the forcefield, I expect that had something to do with the Dark Council fleet dropping out of hyperspace moments later, or just that thing called PIS, a fond excuse of yours tbh.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And Cipher 9 doesn't? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember the Agent running at him with a lightsaber.

There we go. Took you long enough. I was waiting for you to mention the Agent being trained to counter Jedi, but whatever. Still haven't answered the teleportation though.

EDIT:

PIS sounds appropriate, just like Dooku losing to the Bounty Hunters that he could've wrecked with his powers. And what does the Council coming out of hyperspace after the imprisonment have to do with Jadus failing to teleport out before they arrived?



There is no proof, since Dooku hasn't really fought any non-Force sensitives except Grievous, who fights more like a Jedi than an agent, and the Nightbrothers in SoD, which is again not comparable to Cipher 9 since they don't fight in the same way.

Now that we've established that fights against non-Force sensitives aren't indicative of how they'd perform against other Jedi/Sith, we should stop bringing up their losses to non-Force sensitives and instead bring up actual combative showings of lightsaber prowess or Force mastery and compare it against one another. And while Jadus has his impressive teleport + choke feat, he's unfortunately quite underrepresented otherwise.

Took me long enough? The sole reason I raised the DD feat was to expose your sophistry with an equally sophistic response, lawls.

Regardless I'm glad we're in agreement that Jadus' "loss" against Cipher 9 is not a valid argument, and beyond that we have him being vastly more powerful in the Force. Therefore if Jadus were able to force such a contest, it would be one Dooku could not hope to win.

As for my point concerning teleportation, once the fleet dropped out of hyperspace Jadus knew the game was up, so it would have been pointless to make any further attempts at escape.

Originally posted by SunRazer
For the people who take TOR's game mechanics at face value and have Malgus choking the Protags, etc. - there's no denying that Jadus gets beaten multiple times, heals himself back to full strength, and loses again. And the last time, his guards come in, also get butchered, and then the Agent activates the forcefield. Which, funnily enough, Jadus couldn't teleport out of.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Took me long enough? The sole reason I raised the DD feat was to expose your sophistry with an equally sophistic response, lawls.

It's the other way around. You raised the DD feat first in agreement to Neph's pirate feat, and I responded with the Agent showing to prove that it was a laughable argument and we've been going in circles since.



First of all, vastly more powerful? I don't think so. What merits Jadus' vastly greater power relative to the Count?

And being more powerful doesn't let you win in of itself. Traya was more powerful but ultimately lost to Surik, even on a colossal geyser of dark side energy. Also, how exactly would Jadus "force" a contest of Force powers?



Except Jadus didn't know they were coming yet. He attempted to use Lightning to get out of the forcefield instead of teleporting at first, which is kind of funny, tbh. It's probably just WIS/PIS, lol.

^ well, the idea is that Jadus would force a Force contest via teleportation, and that the dreadnought feat puts him above Dooku.

Originally posted by SunRazer
It's the other way around. You raised the DD feat first in agreement to Neph's pirate feat, and I responded with the Agent showing to prove that it was a laughable argument and we've been going in circles since.To be specific my response was directed at Myth, who used the same flawed argument you've been employing for some time now. :upoes it really need to be explained that Jadus' feats outstrip Dooku's by a mile? Though granted one could argue we haven't seen the full extent of Dooku's powers, I'd say that Jadus is firmly above him nonetheless.

Regardless that is true, which is why I said "if", Dooku could potentially defeat him in lightsaber combat, but as Neph rightly pointed out Jadus can simply teleport away.Well that was my rationalisation, I prefer in-universe explanations to PIS.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
To be specific my response was directed at Myth, who used the same flawed argument you've been employing for some time now.

Nah. I use it to mess with Aurbere and other Jadus wankers.



Jadus has only one feat that outstrips Dooku's, which is holding together the Dominator. And doesn't he mention that he's holding part of it together, since part of the ship got incinerated? Does anyone have a good estimate (and basis for that estimate) for how much of the ship Jadus actually held together?



Potentially defeat him in lightsaber combat? LOL. You're putting Jadus remarkably high despite him being rather wanting in lightsaber feats and accolades.

Also, if Jadus is being overwhelmed in sabers, there may not be much of a chance for him to teleport away.



So do I, but sometimes it really is PIS or WIS.

Um Nova why would Jadus get in a duel in the first place?

OK, so the actual reason I mentioned the pirates was as an example of Dooku being held by non force sensitives without him being about to mindfvck them into submission like Jadus did. Which was supposed to rebut Jadus dominating muggles as being irrelevant.

Calm down bitches.

Originally posted by Nephthys
OK, so the actual reason I mentioned the pirates was as an example of Dooku being held by non force sensitives without him being about to mindfvck them into submission like Jadus did. Which was supposed to rebut Jadus dominating muggles as being irrelevant.

Calm down bitches.

That's because it's TCW, and in the same episode, Obi-Wan, Anakin and Dooku couldn't sense the pirates or Hondo's pet creeping up on them and stealing their lightsabers. lmfao

Any respectable EU writer would not write that sh!t.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Um Nova why would Jadus get in a duel in the first place?

Because the fight starts quite close and with morals on, I don't see Jadus running away via teleport immediately?

TCW is wretched when it comes to portraying the Force and capabilities of Jedi / Sith, honestly.

Tbh the worse part of that episode was the fact that the combined power of Dooku, Kenobi and Anakin was not enough to blow away the door, and anyone they came across.

Still the banter was hilarious so worth it.

I don't recall much from Dooku in telepathy in other sources regardless.

Yeah, he only has Drain Knowledge. He did summon Illusions in The Final Showdown, though, and resurrect zombies.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Nah. I use it to mess with Aurbere and other Jadus wankers.uhuhMore than one friend, Dooku is not capable of dominating the minds of thousands, shaking the bridge of said cruiser through his rage alone, or causing pain and suffering to those around him with his mere presence. The ability to render oneself incorporeal at will is also an incredible feat of Force mastery.Enough to convince the Empire it had been completely destroyed, but not enough to prevent it from leaving the system and being repaired, or killing those onboard.

But lets be honest, even a low estimate would leave it well above the small cruisers Dooku TK'ed on Korriban. It's 600 meters in length.Yes, in the respect that Jadus could potentially extricate himself. Unless Dooku can strike at faster than light-speeds, Jadus should be fine.

EDIT: Yeah I'll correct myself on that one before you do. However in general Jadus can teleport in a split-second, so I don't see this being an issue.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
uhuhMore than one friend, Dooku is not capable of dominating the minds of thousands, shaking the bridge of said cruiser through his rage alone, or causing pain and suffering to those around him with his mere presence. The ability to render oneself incorporeal at will is also an incredible feat of Force mastery.

I'm talking about superior feats in combat-relevant powers. Jadus' TP is nice but not something that worked on the Agent, so it won't work on Dooku. Causing pain? Evidently not to the Agent, so again, it won't happen to Dooku.

Rendering himself incorporeal? When did that happen? Jadus teleporting is not rendering himself incorporeal, it's folding space. Which is good, but probably something done with effort and not easily/repeatedly done.



Which means a decent chunk of that 600m.



Small cruisers? Anyways, it's not 600m, since a portion of it was disintegrated. And Dooku hurling the ships "easily" puts it within a respectable range of Jadus. I doubt it's a "vast" gap, as in Jadus can ragdoll or anything.



He can, since he blocks blaster bolts, which are light speed.

Seriously? There's something called Force precognition. Jadus predicted where Kaliyo would raise her blaster and fire and he teleported in time. The actual teleportation happening right after Kaliyo fired is good for him but it was obviously something that he foresaw and the actual disappearing just happened to be after Kaliyo's shot. It's not light-speed reactions. Unless, of course, Jedi blocking blaster bolts is also light speed, since they sometimes raise their lightsabers after the shots are fired.



Dooku moved in split-seconds as a twelve year-old. It's not particularly special. And again, I doubt Jadus can endlessly teleport as he likes. Otherwise, he could just teleport far away from the Agent/Kaliyo every time they got close and Choke them both to death.

Did you just suggest that Dooku can tag faster than light movement because he can deflect blaster bolts, or are you trolling?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Did you just suggest that Dooku can tag faster than light movement because he can deflect blaster bolts, or are you trolling?

Using shitty logic to respond to the same shitty logic. As I made clear above in case somebody called me out again for doing this.

Also, Dooku's use of the Force on Korriban (with the nexus being virtually impotent by then) left behind pools of dark side energy, which is pretty damn good.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm talking about combat-relevant powers. Jadus' TP is nice but not something that worked on the Agent, so it won't work on Dooku. Causing pain? Evidently not to the Agent, so again, it won't happen to Dooku.And I'm talking about overall Force mastery, which theoretically should net him in a win in a Force contest.If that were the case he would reappear instantly, and yet he was capable of Force choking Kaliyo before rematerialising, so yeah he's rendering himself incorporeal.
Yes small, small enough for Kenobi and Anakin to evade. No more than 100m surely.

But no, I doubt Jadus would ragdoll.
Yeah you corrected me before I did.

Regardless the point is he can teleport in an instant (which has nothing to do with his reaction time), so unless Dooku can blow through his guard and deal a killing blow before Jadus can even think, he's not stopping him teleporting.

EDIT: And why he'd need to teleport "endlessly" is beyond me.

What evidence is there that part of the Dominator was destroyed? I can't recall if we see it as being damaged.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What evidence is there that part of the Dominator was destroyed? I can't recall if we see it as being damaged.

Jadus mentions that part of the ship got incinerated and that he held together the "remains".

Originally posted by MythLord
> Tells me I lowball Dooku
> Has him losing to flacking Jadus


Feats.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And I'm talking about overall Force mastery, which theoretically should net him in a win in a Force contest.

This is all-out, not the Force.



What kind of shitty logic is this? This just means that Jadus can use the Force mid-teleport, not that it makes him incorporeal. And I'm pretty sure the Choke began as soon as he teleported, so he probably initiated it beforehand.



I'm pretty sure Tyranus hurled it head-first into the wall, so the length would've been fairly irrelevant. That aside, the only possible ancient cruisers of war that Watson could've referred to are the 215m cruisers from the Great Hyperspace War.

Even being generous and accepting your 100m, Tyranus also hurled two other ships and later smashed them all together to form a barrier that was used to block the hangar entrance, and he did this "easily" as well. There's no way that Jadus holding together majority of a 600m ship is "vastly" beyond that.



No, he wouldn't.



Reaction time is relevant because Jadus needs to be able to react before he can use hispowers.



I mean several times, I just chose an exaggerated word.

NEXUS

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
NEXUS





Seriously, though? Bane already noted how impotent the nexus was in PoD, and BoS confirms that the nexus has only further declined since. Frankly, any power growth that the Count experienced in the next four years would be greater than the amplification of the nexus, tbh.

NOPE

NEXUS

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
NOPE

NEXUS

Bane dies, then.

Good. One less Banite for GGkorion to worry about.

To be fair, Bane has pretty high standards for how powerful nexuses must be, they're kind of his lifeline.

But yeah, that feat makes me consider putting Dooku above Arcann and the ancient sith bar Vitiate, Exar and possibly Ragnos.

Dooku isn't replicating Arcann's brief defense against Spiritkorion, nor is he dominating the Outlander the way Arcann did.

Trashkorion was weakened*, and the Outlander to my knowledge has no feats beyond just being scaled from everyone else.

* if you're referring to its disabling those ships, Dooku ragdolling cruisers might be more impressive.

Zakuul is a nexus tho.

Comparing TK to lightning doesn't make a great deal of sense.

And the HoT has feats.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Zakuul is a nexus tho.

Yep, once again off a nexus Valkorion/Vitiate's best feat is beating random no-namers.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Comparing TK to lightning doesn't make a great deal of sense.


Well you're sort of comparing apples and oranges here too, we're trying our best to convert feats to compare to one another.



All of the relevant ones are just veiled powerscaling from Vitiate, lol.

Zakuul's nexus is irrelevant due to its properties anyway.

Huh?

It's light and dark. It would cancel itself out in terms of amping and weakening.

Quote?

And it'd just be a Force nexus, then.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's light and dark. It would cancel itself out in terms of amping and weakening.

In KotFE chapter 12:

"On Odessan, light and dark exist in perfect balance, forming a nexus in the force. There is another world like it..... Zakuul." - Satele.

Actually pretty awesome Neph.

But isn't Valkorion "beyond" light and dark?

Originally posted by Nephthys
In KotFE chapter 12:

"On Odessan, light and dark exist in perfect balance, forming a nexus in the force. There is another world like it..... Zakuul." - Satele.

Yeah, as I suspected. It's a neutral nexus.

Light and dark both exist there, its not neutral. Kind of like how Felucia had lightside and darkside energies, even though Shaak Ti was championing the light.

Regardless, it's still a nexus, as your quote proves.

Who cares.

Ellimist and the people who want to discredit Valkorion?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Who cares.

You will, when Valkorion goes the way of Bane.

Actually, you won't, since you don't care about Bane's destruction at the hands of Carthage.

Nephs opinion >> Legends Canon

Ooooh.......... burn?

Like I said, this whole thing is irrelevant and continues to be so. We could have spent this time productively discussing how sexy Jadus' voice is.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Zakuul's nexus is irrelevant due to its properties anyway.

It matters for Arcann, since Valkorion was unquantifiably weakened. The only measure to his barrier feat is the destruction Valkorion did to the fleet. But it's nexus amped, and so is Arcann's barrier.

Originally posted by Nephthys
We could have spent this time productively discussing how sexy Jadus' voice is.

Marr's better. #nohomo