Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Peak versions, no powerscaling, just feats.

Curious to see what people think of this.

Revan cuts her to shreds, lmfao. Terrible thread.

I was looking for a feat-based argument, lol. This might be where Carthage is needed.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan cuts her to shreds, lmfao.

Based on what? Just mention whatever feats from the game allow him to stomp.

Does Meetra also have to fight through an army of darkside Force users before facing Traya?

Yes. A "legion" of the Sith's "strongest guardians", as per the Prima Guide. And Sion.

Revan's SF Feat puts him over Meetra in every way.

Fought through basically all of Malak's Jedi Forces, Droid Forces, as a last resort to keep him occupied, fought Bastila 2 or 3 times, can't exactly remember, then fought the Star Forge defense system, and afterwards, fought Malak, who was amped by the Star Forge, who was able to rejuvinate himself using the corpses of dead Jedi Knights.

Revan still won.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Based on what? Just mention whatever feats from the game allow him to stomp.
Even the Korriban feat is better than the Malachor feat, lmfao.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Even the Korriban feat is better than the Malachor feat, lmfao.

Explain.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Yes. A "legion" of the Sith's "strongest guardians", as per the Prima Guide. And Sion. Isn't there a quote with the exact number of sith?

Like it said there was 16 or somthing.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Revan's SF Feat puts him over Meetra in every way.

Fought through basically all of Malak's Jedi Forces, Droid Forces, as a last resort to keep him occupied, fought Bastila 2 or 3 times, can't exactly remember, then fought the Star Forge defense system, and afterwards, fought Malak, who was amped by the Star Forge, who was able to rejuvinate himself using the corpses of dead Jedi Knights.

Revan still won.

Uh... Meetra did pretty much the same thing on Malachor. Whilst hindered by the nexus, she fought through numerous storm beasts, then entered the Trayus Academy and fought a "legion" of the Sith's "strongest guardians", then beat Sion four times, before confronting Traya on a "colossal geyser of dark side energy" and beat her and her three floating lightsabers.

Surik feeds on death. Killing a bunch of randoms isn't even a sign of endurance. But let's ignore that because the Triumvirate was a real threat. Totes.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Isn't there a quote with the exact number of sith?

Like it said there was 16 or somthing.

No. And if we're using game mechanics, there's a lot more than 16, especially with the content mod that lets you unlock another area of the Academy.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Uh... Meetra did pretty much the same thing on Malachor. Whilst hindered by the nexus, she fought through numerous storm beasts, then entered the Trayus Academy and fought a "legion" of the Sith's "strongest guardians", then beat Sion four times, before confronting Traya on a "colossal geyser of dark side energy" and beat her and her three floating lightsabers.
Uh, where's the comparison?

Meetra should take it then.

Originally posted by SunRazer
No. And if we're using game mechanics, there's a lot more than 16, especially with the content mod that lets you unlock another area of the Academy. Are we using game mechanics?

There is a quote that says the exact number, all I remember is that they say its under 30.

Content mods are non-canon.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Uh, where's the comparison?

They both went through heaps of fodder on a DS nexus, defeated the final boss' apprentice about four times, and then defeated the final boss himself/herself in the heart of the nexus after the latter reveals some sort of surprise.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Are we using game mechanics?

There is a quote that says the exact number, all I remember is that they say its under 30.

Content mods are non-canon.

You don't need to the content mod to get over 30 Sith in the Academy. And no, that quote doesn't exist.

I'm going with Revan.

He defeated amped Malak (who could drain the life out of the people in the star forge), amped Bastilia, Mandalore the ultimate, terentatek, groups of generic Sith, and troopers

Meetra Surik? She's nothing to scoff at (resisted being reduced to subatomic particles by the Void on Nathema, killed the Greater Storm Beast, Defeated amplified Darth Traya (she was basically dueling 4 opponents given Traya was TKing 3 lightsabers to aid her) and amplified Sion in a duel, completely destroying Atris , etc) but Revan is just better.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Surik feeds on death. Killing a bunch of randoms isn't even a sign of endurance. But let's ignore that because the Triumvirate was a real threat. Totes.

The Triumvirate's brightest was used as a tool by a fat guy in SWTOR.

But we all know Traya is close to or matching Vader in the force.

@Quakeblood - We're only using feats from the game, and that passage you linked to was so horribly written...

Originally posted by QuakeBlood
he's nothing to scoff at (resisted being reduced to subatomic particles by the Void on Nathema
No, she didn't.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Triumvirate's brightest was used as a tool by a fat guy in SWTOR.

But we all know Traya is close to or matching Vader in the force.
Obviously. She TK'd three EXTREMELY POWERFUL Jedi Masters.

More powerful than the two mooks that Malak always gets credit for Choking and killing on a DS nexus, tbh.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Obviously. She TK'd three EXTREMELY POWERFUL Jedi Masters.

Let's be honest: Traya would Giga-Drain Valkorion.

Originally posted by SunRazer
More powerful than the two mooks that Malak always gets credit for Choking and killing on a DS nexus, tbh.
Since when has Malak ever gotten credit for that by anyone besides LeGenD?

Neph thinks Traya can instakill anything with Drain.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Since when has Malak ever gotten credit for that by anyone besides LeGenD?

Ant? QuakeBlood?

Meetra canonically greater than any Traya have trained

Avellone says Meetra and Traya combined would lose to KotOR Revan, lmfao.

Karpyshyn said novel Meetra >= novel Revan in lightsaber prowess. ayy lmao

We all know how stupid they are, lol.

Karpyshyn retracted his claim. Avellone didn't.

Revan one-shots. Next thread.

Originally posted by SunRazer
ayy lmao

Originally posted by SunRazer
Ant? QuakeBlood?
Ant ranks Malak high because of his feats against Revan, not him choking out randoms with no names.

KOTOR 2 characters may as well be randoms with no names

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Karpyshyn retracted his claim. Avellone didn't.

Revan one-shots. Next thread.

No, he didn't. He retracted "Meetra > Revan" and changed it to "Meetra~Revan". Obviously not a big gap.

Was Avellone the one who said Meetra could use some strange Force deafening power on Revan but Revan "wouldn't be kept down for long"? lol

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Meetra canonically greater than any Traya have trained Exile slaughters.Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Surik feeds on death. Killing a bunch of randoms isn't even a sign of endurance. But let's ignore that because the Triumvirate was a real threat. Totes. Meetra feeds off Ant's butthurt and wins.

Revan, most certainly.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Exile slaughters. Meetra feeds off Ant's butthurt and wins.

I've been back and forth on this, but for now I rank KOTOR Revan above KOTOR II Surik, although not by a lot.

He clearly is, but not necessarily from non-scaled feats.

Not scaling her feats doesn't make her look better as Revan exists as the god for KotOR II.

The author flat out says Revan can beat both Traya and the Exile at the same time.

Yeah, but the whole point of the match is to only use non-scaled feats.

Strictly feat by feat, Revan probably outweighs Surik.

And if we scale those feats, Revan definitely beats her.

Her best feat is circumstantial, to put it mildly, and below Revan's, so she's still less impressive.

Revan's Victories:
Darth Bandon
Unquantifable Malak

Exile's Victories:
Nihilus
Amped Sion
Amped Traya

Hm.....tough choices here, really. I mean, he did defeat Darth Bandon.

Also what an author says outside of his work is utterly worthless because Avellone doesn't own these characters. If I got licensed to write a book tomorrow where I had The Exile beat Revan with her pinky, it be worth more than anything Avellone ever said in a frickin' email.

This is like listening to comic book writers. They all have their ideas on who beats who, as well. Guess who we DON'T listen to for comic book versus. Why? Because they merely wrote one version of the character. The character belongs to Marvel/DC/whoever, not them.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Revan's Victories:
Darth Bandon
Unquantifable Malak

Exile's Victories:
Nihilus
Amped Sion
Amped Traya

Hm.....tough choices here, really. I mean, he did defeat Darth Bandon.

Also what an author says outside of his work is utterly worthless because Avellone doesn't own these characters. If I got licensed to write a book tomorrow where I had The Exile beat Revan with her pinky, it be worth more than anything Avellone ever said in a frickin' email.

This is like listening to comic book writers. They all have their ideas on who beats who, as well. Guess who we DON'T listen to for comic book versus. Why? Because they merely wrote one version of the character. The character belongs to Marvel/DC/whoever, not them.

Funny how you refer to Sion and Traya as 'amped' and refer to Malak as 'unquantifiable'. Malak was also amped, not only by a nexus but also by at least 6 dead Jedi who replenished his energy whenever Revan started to tire him out. This was done after Revan defeated amped Bastila, legions of Dark Jedi and personally annihilated the Star Forge's droid defenses. It's certainly more impressive than Surik's feats. And that's not it. He also defeated two Terentateks simultaneously right before he defeated the two most skilled Sith in the Korriban Academy and proceeded to solo all the Sith inside the Academy.

Even if we don't do a feat to feat comparison, Revan is superior to Surik by her own admission, and based on her not being able to defeat Nyriss whereas Revan crushed her.

Originally posted by Petrus
Funny how you refer to Sion and Traya as 'amped' and refer to Malak as 'unquantifiable'.

Kreia killed 3 Jedi Masters with one move on her own.
Sion was functionally immortal on his own.

So we can say they were quite impressive but then got substantially stronger.

What can we say about Malak except he is missing his lower jaw?




Are you seriously saying some fodder Dark Jedi are on par with Traya or Sion? Sion could kill all those Dark Jedi himself.




We were talking about the KOTOR games, not bad novels.

We are talking about who's more powerful. Revan is.

>Sion
>remotely comparable to Malak
>

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Sion could kill all those Dark Jedi himself.
http://cdn.chud.com/0/03/500x1000px-LL-0312c4c9_michael-jordan-laughing.gif

With powerscaling, Revan would stomp her. By feats? Surrik fought much more powerful opponents. One could kill everything on a planet with drain, and has enough powerful TK, to rise a ruined starship. The other one could stomp jedi Council members, without any effort. Both of them were able to sever their enemies from the Force (as I remember). Revan on the other hand, couldn't stomp jedi stroke team in the same way (probably couldn't...). And that strike team, had probably inferior jedi to those from the Council.

Revan had to deal with one Lord Sith. Surrik had to deal with three.

The hell?

Originally posted by McP
With powerscaling, Revan would stomp her. By feats? Surrik fought much more powerful opponents. One could kill everything on a planet with drain, and has enough powerful TK, to rise a ruined starship. The other one could stomp jedi Council members, without any effort. Both of them were able to sever their enemies from the Force (as I remember). Revan on the other hand, couldn't stomp jedi stroke team in the same way (probably couldn't...). And that strike team, had probably inferior jedi to those from the Council.

Revan had to deal with one Lord Sith. Surrik had to deal with three.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://cdn.chud.com/0/03/500x1000px-LL-0312c4c9_michael-jordan-laughing.gif

Tell me - if you have any real arguments - how do these fodder DJ propose to kill an immortal Sith Lord who never tires and can just cut them down one by one?

Why do people keep saying Revan soled Korriban and the Star Forge? He had help from his companions in both cases. Revan had Jolee and Juhani, two experienced Jedi on his side until the Bastila battle, while the Exile legit soled Malachor.

Three pages, it took three pages to point out the obvious.

Well done, Psychotron.

Does that change any opinions?

Originally posted by Psychotron
Why do people keep saying Revan soled Korriban and the Star Forge? He had help from his companions in both cases. Revan had Jolee and Juhani, two experienced Jedi on his side until the Bastila battle, while the Exile legit soled Malachor.
Probably because that bullshit is just as made up as the opinion that Revan solo'd it, which you could probably guess givin who's approving you.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Why do people keep saying Revan soled Korriban and the Star Forge? He had help from his companions in both cases. Revan had Jolee and Juhani, two experienced Jedi on his side until the Bastila battle, while the Exile legit soled Malachor.
I recall AP pointing out that Juhani and Carth assisted Revan on Korriban. And the aid of a companion who's probably not even more powerful than your rank-and-file Dark Jedi, and then someone who's going to be more of a hinderment than an aid (i.e. Carth), isn't going to help much when confronting "hundreds" of Dark Jedi on an immensely potent dark side nexus (especially after just fighting the two most powerful Sith on the planet and two terentatek).

On the Star Forge, Revan had aid from Canderous Ordo and one other companion. Even if we assume the other companion was Jolee, the most powerful companion, Revan's still the driving and basically sole force in cutting through the armies. Darth Malak sent the Dark Jedi specifically after Revan, not the group in general. He is there target. And then there's the fact Revan personally took on the Infinite Army following Bastila Shan, which Darth Malak seemed to believe was even greater than dozens to hundreds of enhanced Dark Jedi, anyway.

Indeed. It doesn't have to be the two Jedi in your party. But it's still help all the same - however minimal it is.

It definitely wasn't both Jedi. We know who went with Revan on Korriban, and we know Ordo fought with Revan on the Star Forge.

On the Star Forge, it's far more likely he brought a lesser companion, unless you think Shan can dismiss Jolee with a wave of her hand?

It's on the Star Forge, which amps her considerably and weakens Jolee considerably, too.

Definitely. But even then, is Shan powerful enough to pull off such a feat?

Bastila could probably solo Jolee and Juhani. She certainly was able to dismiss them with stasis.

You don't think so? Aren't you the one who loves to bring up Shan blasting them back on Lehon?

I think it's possible. I was interested in others thoughts on how Shan stacks up to them.

In any case, Revan didn't take two Jedi with him on the Star Forge or Korriban. And to boot, the Jedi companions he had were weak.

Yeah, so she'd definitely be able to Stasis a Jedi and a non-Force sensitive on the Star Forge.

Ant, I sent you a PM on CV.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I think it's possible. I was interested in others thoughts on how Shan stacks up to them.

In any case, Revan didn't take two Jedi with him on the Star Forge or Korriban. And to boot, the Jedi companions he had were weak.
Son, you apologize to Jolee Sensei now.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I recall AP pointing out that Juhani and Carth assisted Revan on Korriban. And the aid of a companion who's probably not even more powerful than your rank-and-file Dark Jedi, and then someone who's going to be more of a hinderment than an aid (i.e. Carth), isn't going to help much when confronting "hundreds" of Dark Jedi on an immensely potent dark side nexus (especially after just fighting the two most powerful Sith on the planet and two terentatek).

On the Star Forge, Revan had aid from Canderous Ordo and one other companion. Even if we assume the other companion was Jolee, the most powerful companion, Revan's still the driving and basically sole force in cutting through the armies. Darth Malak sent the Dark Jedi specifically after Revan, not the group in general. He is there target. And then there's the fact Revan personally took on the Infinite Army following Bastila Shan, which Darth Malak seemed to believe was even greater than dozens to hundreds of enhanced Dark Jedi, anyway.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Probably because that bullshit is just as made up as the opinion that Revan solo'd it, which you could probably guess givin who's approving you.

No matter how much you want to twist it, Revan had help, the Exile didn't. Jolee and Juhani wouldn't let Revan go in the Rakatan temple alone, I really doubt they'd sit by while Revan was in the Star Forge. The 2 companion limit is just a gameplay mechanic, anyway. There's no reason for Revan to take 2 companions and leave the rest to play pazaak in the ship, while the most important battle of the war was happening.

Originally posted by Psychotron
No matter how much you want to twist it, Revan had help, the Exile didn't. Jolee and Juhani wouldn't let Revan go in the Rakatan temple alone, I really doubt they'd sit by while Revan was in the Star Forge. The 2 companion limit is just a gameplay mechanic, anyway. There's no reason for Revan to take 2 companions and leave the rest to play pazaak in the ship, while the most important battle of the war was happening.

This.

Although, if he really did bring two, I would bet on it being Canderous and HK.

Originally posted by Psychotron
No matter how much you want to twist it, Revan had help, the Exile didn't.

Just like no matter how much you want to twist it, these aren't even comparable situations. Revan facing an army isn't comparable to the Exile fighting the remnants of one.

They all separated at one time or another, which is why Carth tells you they all made it back to the ship. Revan faced that army of droids, and Bastila, alone. That was the entire point of staling him.

Not to mention, again, the Exile feeds off death. Killing a ton of randoms, one at a time or in small groups, is not nearly as impressive as it sounds.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Just like no matter how much you want to twist it, these aren't even comparable situations. Revan facing an army isn't comparable to the Exile fighting the remnants of one.

They all separated at one time or another, which is why Carth tells you they all made it back to the ship. Revan faced that army of droids, and Bastila, alone. That was the entire point of staling him.

Not to mention, again, the Exile feeds off death. Killing a ton of randoms, one at a time or in small groups, is not nearly as impressive as it sounds.

There really isn't much of a difference between the Star Forge and Malachor. In fact, I'm pretty sure that there were a lot more dark Jedi in the academy than there were on the Forge. Revan mostly faced droids and soldiers + some dark Jedi, while the Exile fought assassins, Marauders and Sith Lords with the occassional Sith Elite squad. To me, that is more impressive than cutting through soldiers with help. And lets not forget that the Exile, Mandalore and Visas did run through an army on the Ravager.

Overall the Exile defeated more powerful opponents. I'd put Nihilus, Traya and Sion over Malak, Bastila and Bandon easily.

Nihilus was utterly destroying her. She only survived due to her Force wound and Visas Marr weakening Darth Nihilus by severing their bond. It's not a feat.

And besting Darth Sion, a powerful Sith with absolutely no combat abilities to boot, is not more impressive than besting Bastila Shan, the most prodigious Jedi of the Order with actual feats to show.

And putting Malak, who has the power of the Star Forge and numerous Jedi to draw upon, on his ass three to nine times is definitely more impressive than besting Kreia, who is just a decent combatant (and now without an arm) with her trademark ability not applicable against the Exile (i.e. Force drain). A simple comparison in willpower between Kreia and Malak will make clear Malak is vastly more powerful. And that shouldn't be a surprise, since Avellone wrote Kotor II with the intention of KotOR Revan being capable of besting both Kreia and the Exile at the same time. But sure, let's ignore that.

Revan took on "hundreds" on Korriban following killing the two headmasters and two terentatek with only the aid of Juhani and Onasi. This vastly outstrips the Malachor feat. And then assuming that him, Ordo, and another companion fought even more Sith on the Star Forge (every Sith on the station), and then Revan soloing Shan (as mentioned prior), the Infinite Army, and then Malak (also mentioned prior), he's ridiculously better than the Exile in everything.

And then if we fast forward only a couple years, Revan is capable of one-shotting Surik. Do the math.

Ant, the willpower argument got retconned, lol. And Kreia only lost a hand, not an arm.

Also, putting Malak on his ass "three to nine times"?

Originally posted by Psychotron
There really isn't much of a difference between the Star Forge and Malachor.



I don't care about gameplay representations of what happened. I care about tangible representations, such as those supported in quotes

No, they didn't. Army =/= a lot of enemies in gameplay.

That's nice. She's stated to be weaker than all, she never defeated NIhilus, as much as waited for him to die. Not that I care about your opinion anyway.

Revan is clearly the winner here. No disrespect to the Exile.

It's a "legion" in the Trayus Academy, according to the Prima Guide. No word on what it was aboard the Ravager, but an "army" of Sith boarded Telos station and you have to fight most (or was it all?) of them.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Ant, the willpower argument got retconned, lol. And Kreia only lost a hand, not an arm.

Also, putting Malak on his ass "three to nine times"?
No, it didn't.

Uh, yeah.

1. Nah. Her "shielding her emotions" from the power of the DS nexus is no longer the cause of her falling to the dark side, but her being tempted by Sith hermetica and other forbidden knowledge as per the KotOR CG.

2. Based on what?

The tempting of the Sith hermetica explains her radical philosophy, but it doesn't directly contradict the notion Kreia was consumed by the dark side as she entered the world and then studied ancient practices in the Trayus Academy like Chronicles stated.

The fact he was using nine Jedi (one at a time) to replenish his power after it was depleted via cutscene?

1. She obviously wasn't consumed by the dark side "as she entered the world". She goes to the Trayus Academy, gets presented with Sith hermetica, and gets intrigued. She keeps on reading while the Sith Sorcerers start telling her that the Force needs to be destroyed etc. for the reason she later states at the end of the game. It states that Traya fell under this seductive spell. Unless Malak was presented with this hermetica and met the same Sorcerers who claimed the same thing, it's not a willpower contest at all. Also, didn't he already fall to the dark side by then? And plus, he had Revan (of obviously greater willpower than either him or Traya) to tell him whenever the Sorcerers' claims were BS

2. He uses one in terms of unavoidable cutscenes. You can destroy the rest before he can siphon from them. And Revan still didn't put Malak on his ass when the latter ran to the first Jedi tank.

1. Where's the contradiction? Kreia goes to Malachor, is consumed by the agony of the world and is drawn to the Trayus Academy. Now corrupted by the dark side, she is intrigued by the philosophy brought forward to her by the Sith Assassins and embraces it. I understand where you are coming from, but there is no direct contradiction and that fact isn't indisputable. It's canon.

1. There is a quote that states Malak drains numerous Jedi. Revan bested Malak once, he retreated and drained a Jedi. Revan defeated him again, and Malak drained another Jedi (thus fitting the req. of multiple Jedi due to the plural usage of Jedi). Revan beat him again and Malak was lost. So, three times. And then nine would be the absolute maximum if he doesn't destroy the pods.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice


I don't care about gameplay representations of what happened. I care about tangible representations, such as those supported in quotes

No, they didn't. Army =/= a lot of enemies in gameplay.

That's nice. She's stated to be weaker than all, she never defeated NIhilus, as much as waited for him to die. Not that I care about your opinion anyway.

Well, I don't care about quotes, since this thread is soley about Kotor Revan vs Kotor II Exile. And based on the games alone the Exile is more impressive.

Again, I thought this was about the games without other EU sources?

She's never stated to be weaker than any of them (except Nihilus) in the game. Just the opposite, multiple characters in the game hype the Exile to be Revan's equal and opposite.

@Nova: Also, don't respond to my points with repeating your argument again, please.

Unless you have a quote that proves a direct contradiction, don't bother responding.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nihilus was utterly destroying her. She only survived due to her Force wound and Visas Marr weakening Darth Nihilus by severing their bond. It's not a feat.

And besting Darth Sion, a powerful Sith with absolutely no combat abilities to boot, is not more impressive than besting Bastila Shan, the most prodigious Jedi of the Order with actual feats to show.

And putting Malak, who has the power of the Star Forge and numerous Jedi to draw upon, on his ass three to nine times is definitely more impressive than besting Kreia, who is just a decent combatant (and now without an arm) with her trademark ability not applicable against the Exile (i.e. Force drain). A simple comparison in willpower between Kreia and Malak will make clear Malak is vastly more powerful. And that shouldn't be a surprise, since Avellone wrote Kotor II with the intention of KotOR Revan being capable of besting both Kreia and the Exile at the same time. But sure, let's ignore that.

Revan took on "hundreds" on Korriban following killing the two headmasters and two terentatek with only the aid of Juhani and Onasi. This vastly outstrips the Malachor feat. And then assuming that him, Ordo, and another companion fought even more Sith on the Star Forge (every Sith on the station), and then Revan soloing Shan (as mentioned prior), the Infinite Army, and then Malak (also mentioned prior), he's ridiculously better than the Exile in everything.

And then if we fast forward only a couple years, Revan is capable of one-shotting Surik. Do the math.

Nihilus is anyone in Kotor I so whatever. If anything it's impressive that she didn't get annihilated.

And what are Bastila's feats aside from losing to Malak and Revan, and beating some random mook Sith? Oh, and let's not forget beating captured by a bunch of hood rats. At least Sion has his immortality.

Malak killed 2 random Jedi on a Dark side nexus, that's literally his only feat aside from besting a Padawan Bastila. Traya wrecked 3 council members with ease. That's a better feat. Defeating her and 3 tk controlled lightsabers is an impressive feat. Malak has no willpower, he was Revan's *****, got uppidiy, then went back to being a ***** when Revan defeated him. Remember that Malak had doubts about looking for the Star Forge, but he did it because Revan made him.

Yes, defeating a Sith army on a DS nexus with help is more impressive than defeating a Sith army on a DS nexus without help. You sure convinced me, man. You're not a biased Revan fan at all.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
1. Where's the contradiction? Kreia goes to Malachor, is consumed by the agony of the world and is drawn to the Trayus Academy. Now corrupted by the dark side, she is intrigued by the philosophy brought forward to her by the Sith Assassins and embraces it. I understand where you are coming from, but there is no direct contradiction and that fact isn't indisputable. It's canon.

You said she gets consumed as soon as she comes to the world, which isn't true. She gets consumed once she reads all of the hermetica.

Anyways, the Chronicles claim that she was "haunted by guilt", which would weaken her willpower. But otherwise, I'm in agreement. Does Malak ever get presented with the hermetica/arguments?



If it's the one in your RT, it just mentions "drained Jedi captives". So that's two, and he's not "put on his ass" either time. He's only put on his ass once he finally loses, lol.

Psy, question before I respond: If I have an army of dozens of men and kill them, and then have an army of hundreds of men and kill them, are they equally impressive because they are both armies, or is one feat greater than the other?

And, Nova, I told you to not respond unless you had an argument. And everything Kreia saw, Malak also saw, so yes.

Why are you even assuming the Star Forge had more genuine Sith?

I'm referring to Korriban, which was stated to have hundreds.

And it's honestly also only a reasonable assumption Revan fought more Sith on the Star Forge then Korriban.

So, the Exile's X number or Revan's 100s+. Hard choice.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Psy, question before I respond: If I have an army of dozens of men and kill them, and then have an army of hundreds of men and kill them, are they equally impressive because they are both armies, or is one feat greater than the other?

Is there a quote suggesting that the Star Forge had that many more Sith there?

And the Sith in the Academy would've been at least as good as the ones on the Star Forge.



I do have an argument. Kreia being haunted by guilt as per the same source that you're basing your own argument on would diminish her willpower. I've agreed with the rest.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Well, I don't care about quotes, since this thread is soley about Kotor Revan vs Kotor II Exile. And based on the games alone the Exile is more impressive.

Again, I thought this was about the games without other EU sources?

This is about judging their feats from their respective games, not how those feats appeared in those games.

Also wrong. The Exile is said to be weaker than Traya, only having the potential to be more powerful.

For the record, the Exile's stated to have fought a legion of Sith on Malachor, and every SW definition of legion I'm aware of (whether it refers to clone armies or otherwise) refers to a number in the thousands. Not that I'm saying she fought thousands, but at worst, we can say that this is inconclusive. Suggesting that 100's > X is an appeal to ignorance.

The most common use of "legion" is just "a lot." It's an unquantifiable number.

Originally posted by SunRazer
For the record, the Exile's stated to have fought a legion of Sith on Malachor, and every SW definition of legion I'm aware of (whether it refers to clone armies or otherwise) refers to a number in the thousands. Not that I'm saying she fought thousands, but at worst, we can say that this is inconclusive. Suggesting that 100's > X is an appeal to ignorance.
Kind of like how saying X>100s would be an appeal to no limits. Just saying.

Did I say X > 100's?

No, but quite a few people in this thread did. Which was the point. The fact that I quoted you doesn't mean it's in response to something you said yourself. Ideas naturally build off each other. It's kind of how conversations work, bt-dubs.

I'm pretty sure its just Psy. But w/e.