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Round 1: Sabers only
Round 2: Force only
Round 3: All out

If Dooku is losing: Add early TCW Asajj Ventress
If Malgus is losing: Add Satele Shan 'Hope'

Malgus dies

Tyranus wins them all. Not sure how Satele's presence changes this.

It's closer than everyone thinks. Malgus is arguably the heaviest hitting duelist and Dooku normally gets pummelled by strength oriented duelists. Dooku is more skilful yes but Malgus is brutal af

Close or not, Dooku wins, lol. He's faced more physically powerful duelists before and the skill edge is even greater than in those cases.

Who has he faced that's stronger than Malgus and won? Vos and Anakin aren't as strong as big Gus but he still got beat!

OCW/LoE Grievous.

RotS Anakin is indeed stronger than Malgus, lol. Vos was enraged against Dooku and the fight was retarded anyway.

Physically stronger? Vos and Anakin lmao no. Grievous is hard to hit because he's made of bloody metal but he doesn't hit as hard as Malgus.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Vos was enraged against Dooku and the fight was retarded anyway. In their second fight? I only recall Vos being particularly enraged in their first fight on Raxus, but I could be wrong.

During their last fight, Vos seemed to be in a Oneness state of being, IIRC.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Physically stronger? Vos and Anakin lmao no. Grievous is hard to hit because he's made of bloody metal but he doesn't hit as hard as Malgus.

I didn't say Vos was stronger.

RotS Anakin, however, is. Even hindered as he was on Mustafar, he came close to breaking Obi-Wan's bones, and with augmentation, Obi-Wan tanked being smashed into the wall of the Invisible Hand with such force that the hydrofoamed permacrete above fell on him, and he emerged from that with just a bump on his head. He's tanked blows from Grievous, Durge, being smashed through walls, etc - he's immensely durable. If a considerably hindered Anakin could come close to breaking his bones in a melee grapple, you can just imagine the sheer amount of power in each of a prime Anakin's blows.

Pre-TCW Grievous has better strength feats than Malgus also.

Originally posted by MythLord
During their last fight, Vos seemed to be in a Oneness state of being, IIRC.

No, it was just a retarded sequence. He apparently won by being "so unpredictable that even he didn't know what he was going to do" or something ridiculous along those lines.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
No, it was just a retarded sequence. He apparently won by being "so unpredictable that even he didn't know what he was going to do" or something ridiculous along those lines. Wouldn't that count as some sort of amp?

Yeah, peak Anakin is definitely stronger than Malgus, lmao.

Malgus dies.

Darth Malgus steamrolls.

LMFAO. Yep Anakin could just smash Malgus on his ass with pure physical strength right? totally

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
LMFAO. Yep Anakin could just smash Malgus on his ass with pure physical strength right? totally

I gave you a feat of strength from Anakin that Malgus hasn't been able to replicate. This doesn't count as a satisfactory response; in fact, it's a concession.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Malgus steamrolls.

I'll wait for you to substantiate this. Make sure it's something that the idiots can understand.

Dooku has better skill feats, better force feats, and better accolades, and all Malgus has is big muscles...

Originally posted by SunRazer
RotS Anakin, however, is. Even hindered as he was on Mustafar, he came close to breaking Obi-Wan's bones, and with augmentation, Obi-Wan tanked being smashed into the wall of the Invisible Hand with such force that the hydrofoamed permacrete above fell on him, and he emerged from that with just a bump on his head. He's tanked blows from Grievous, Durge, being smashed through walls, etc - he's immensely durable. If a considerably hindered Anakin could come close to breaking his bones in a melee grapple, you can just imagine the sheer amount of power in each of a prime Anakin's blows.
Riiight...

The movie shows Obi-Wan doing just fine. We don't need interpretations of the fight to determine how it went.

Darth Malgus sent Aryn Leener flying with a single punch, injuring her to an extent that she vomited blood from her mouth.

Darth Malgus have also lifted a Jedi in the air with a single arm and crushed his throat with ease while doing so. Can you imagine the strength needed to lift a person (that too a Jedi) and dominate him like this? Try something like that.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Pre-TCW Grievous has better strength feats than Malgus also.
Such as?

Breaking bones or making someone vomit... mmm

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Breaking bones or making someone vomit... mmm
And you call yourself the smartest man.

You cheap and ridiculous one-liners are getting old.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The movie shows Obi-Wan doing just fine. We don't need interpretations of the fight to determine how it went.

Is this in reference to the fight on Mustafar? We see Obi-Wan being overpowered in hand-to-hand at one point, and he could've well had his bones reach near-breaking point. It's not exactly clear, hence why the novel's explanation is relevant. Unless, of course, you're trying to deny perfectly countable showings for the sake of elevating your favorites?



That's because she ended up cartwheeling into a rock. Compare that to Obi-Wan being accelerated into the Invisible Hand's wall with such force that the hydrofoam permacrete fell onto him, and even then he emerged unscathed except for a bump on his head. As you can imagine, Obi-Wan's Force-augmented durability is vastly beyond Aryn Leneer's, and Anakin came close to breaking his arms when considerably hindered. Now imagine Anakin at full strength. Beyond Malgus's strength? I think so.



You mean stuff that Grievous has done? He's crushed a Jedi Master's skull, literally smashed Sha'a Gi to death, kicked Ki-Adi Mundi into steel pillars with enough force to knock down said pillars, shattered phrik (which is lightsaber-resistant), and done this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4228550-vs+rogues.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4228551-vs+rogues2.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4228552-vs+rogues3.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4228553-vs+rogues4.png

This is the same guy that Dooku repeatedly duels against without struggle (not for the majority of cases, at least).



See above.

You either can't read or don't want to. Obi-Wan isn't "some guy". With Force-enhanced durability, he's more durable than the interior walls of capital ships



Never happened.





Yeah, because she was sent into a rock. That being enough to make her vomit blood is laughably weak in comparison to Obi-Wan, who's been sent through walls and emerged unscathed.



Anakin's produced kicks at speeds resembling terminal velocity.



LOL. "Folding someone in half" is not literal. But I mean, if you want to:



Remembering that Anakin >>>>> some random Jedi.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And you call yourself the smartest man.

You cheap and ridiculous one-liners are getting old.

Lmao, that's how long my attempt to be nice with you lasted.

Newsflash: there's an incredibly intuitive argument embedded in that "one liner". See if you can find it.

"Adraas's trachea collapsed in Malgus's grip. There was no final cough or gag. Adraas died in silence." It happened.

Malgus withstands a missile blast and continues to fight and wreck Republic troopers, and defeat Satele Shan. Following that, he withstands a concussion grenade directly to the face, but is not particularly harmed in any manner. Satele then proceeds to throw Malgus into a cliff with enough force to dislodge some of the stone, and proceeds to unleash a Force blast that shatters the entire cliff. Malgus not only survives, but fueled by his rage, later fights and defeats a pair of Jedi

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
"Adraas's trachea collapsed in Malgus's grip. There was no final cough or gag. Adraas died in silence." It happened.

Angral isn't Adraas. He's much more powerful.

I made Malgus' respect thread, lol. I'm aware of his capabilities.



Respectable as Malgus' pain tolerance is, that has no bearing on his strength.

I take it that your inability to respond to everything else is a concession?

Also your trachea is a lot weaker than your leg and arm bones lol.

Anakin has also crushed Ventress's hands by squeezing them as a padawan.

Has Anakin lifted Jedi/Sith up in the air and squeezed them to death?

To be fair, he was enraged when that happened. Though it was also on a DS nexus and Ventress would've been amped.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Has Anakin lifted Jedi/Sith up in the air and squeezed them to death?

He could, since he almost did something worse to vastly more durable Jedi. He's also torn apart spider droids with his bare hands, IIRC.

Grievous has done about the same thing, and Dooku contends with him regularly without trouble. You're vastly overemphasizing physical dominance over nobodies.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Also your trachea is a lot weaker than your leg and arm bones lol.

Anakin has also crushed Ventress's hands by squeezing them as a padawan.

Ventress was thin af!

In fairness, Ventress had ridiculous durability (not necessarily strength, though) - she's been fine after falling from the Massassi temple rooftop, she's survived falls from skyscrapers after being electrocuted, and in the TCW novel/junior novel/cut content she survives a rancor falling on her, lol.

Originally posted by SunRazer
To be fair, he was enraged when that happened. Though it was also on a DS nexus and Ventress would've been amped.

That enraged Anakin probably couldn't have beaten Dooku, given that he didn't do as well against Ventress as her master does.

I don't think it's that difficult to believe in Anakin's superior physicals given his raw power.

So Grievous is stronger than Anakin you reckon? The ABC logic isn't going to work here, Anakin defeated Dooku, Dooku 'contends with Grievous regularly without trouble'. So are you saying Dooku defeats Grievous. Anakin defeats Dooku, but Grievous defeats Anakin? Because you're making it out like grievous is invincible

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
So Grievous is stronger than Anakin you reckon? The ABC logic isn't going to work here, Anakin defeated Dooku, Dooku 'contends with Grievous regularly without trouble'. So are you saying Dooku defeats Grievous. Anakin defeats Dooku, but Grievous defeats Anakin? Because you're making it out like grievous is invincible

I didn't say Grievous is stronger than Anakin anywhere. Based on their unarmed showings against Obi-Wan, Anakin's demonstrably stronger. He's actually one of the most physically powerful characters in galactic history, which is why it's not a laugh that Malgus is below him.

Super Battledroids are about as strong as Grievous and Mace smashed through them with his fists

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lmao, that's how long my attempt to be nice with you lasted.

Newsflash: there's an incredibly intuitive argument embedded in that "one liner". See if you can find it.
1. Anakin Skywalker did not actually break bones of Obi-Wan Kenobi. The former wasn't strong enough to do this to the latter.

Observation: You are treating fanciful interpretations as facts in this case.

2. Aryn Leener spilled blood from her mouth. This implies serious internal injury.

Observation: I see lowballing effort here.

Tell me! What is there to appreciate? Should I praise your levelheadedness in all this (which is nowhere to be seen by the way)?

Try posting something credible for once. Your mocking attempts don't have any stock in them. They are cheap and ridiculous one-liners.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I didn't say Grievous is stronger than Anakin anywhere. Based on their unarmed showings against Obi-Wan, Anakin's demonstrably stronger. He's actually one of the most physically powerful characters in galactic history, which is why it's not a laugh that Malgus is below him.

I can see where you're coming from but it's Anakin's power in the force that grants him his strength, not his physiology. Malgus is nowhere near as powerful in the force and still a brute of a man

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Super Battledroids are about as strong as Grievous

https://youtu.be/bH57MnJIjkc?t=61

Durability wise. They can both take multiple blaster bolts, but gets wrecked with a lightsaber. Obviously Grievous is stronger but he actually has hands (sort of)

Ok Sunrazer, have fun with Legend.

Honestly it's a big enough burden to show Malgus is as strong as Grievous or Savage, neither of whom can take Dooku.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Super Battledroids are about as strong as Grievous and Mace smashed through them with his fists

I need chemotherapy after reading this.

Grievous has casually crushed MagnaGuards, that destroyed Super Battle Droids simply by slamming them to the side.
And you're arguing they're about as strong? LMFAO.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Durability wise. They can both take multiple blaster bolts, but gets wrecked with a lightsaber. Obviously Grievous is stronger but he actually has hands (sort of)

Show me B2 Battle Droids tanking being in the center of a city-level explosion. B2's fall after three blaster shots, and GG would find 20 as mere annoyances.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
I can see where you're coming from but it's Anakin's power in the force that grants him his strength, not his physiology. Malgus is nowhere near as powerful in the force and still a brute of a man

That's my point, lol. Malgus may be inherently stronger but Anakin's Force reserves utterly outclass his, and it's Force reserves that make the big difference (Palpatine vs Maul/Savage, for instance).

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
1. Anakin Skywalker did not actually break bones of Obi-Wan Kenobi. The former wasn't strong enough to do this to the latter.

I didn't say he broke his bones, I said he came close to it.



Canonical and legitimate facts, yes.



She was vomiting blood because she cartwheeled into a rock. As I mentioned above, Obi-Wan's withstood immensely greater hits without being nearly as hurt. He's far, far more durable, and Anakin nearly broke his bones.



Hard to say that when you're trying to deny somebody of their source so that you can win the debate.



You might think that; I couldn't possibly comment.

Originally posted by MythLord
I need chemotherapy after reading this.

Grievous has casually crushed MagnaGuards, that destroyed Super Battle Droids simply by slamming them to the side.
And you're arguing they're about as strong? LMFAO.



Show me B2 Battle Droids tanking being in the center of a city-level explosion. B2's fall after three blaster shots, and GG would find 20 as mere annoyances.

It was obviously an exaggeration. I know Grievous is stronger than some droids XD

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
It was obviously an exaggeration. I know Grievous is stronger than some droids XD

Concession accepted

Anakin and GG > Malgus.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
It was obviously an exaggeration. I know Grievous is stronger than some droids XD

Grievous is infinitely beyond them in durability as well, lol. Super Battle Droids got wrecked by R2's flamethrower in RotS. Grievous withstands explosions of infinitely greater magnitude and emerges unharmed.

You're really running out of excuses, aren't you? lol

Anakin almost breaking Obi-Wan's bones with a metal arm is pretty worthless, Malgus was using his muscle crushing people everywhere (Featless or not). On feats Anakin probably wins, I'll give you that. But just look at Malgus. It's bloody common sense to see that a moody 20 year old with some muscle could not curbstomp that gargantuan in a fist fight.

LOL Looking back at comments from 2011 on the same thread.

Stealth Moose
This is so unfair. Darth Malgus as of Deceived would utterly rape Anakin. Hell, I bet he'd be a tough match for Mace or Dooku.

S_W_LeGenD
Malgus would destroy Anakin.

Dr McBeefington
Nothing about Anakin puts him on the same level, or even close to Malgus, as far as the force goes.

Dr McBeefington
There's more than enough to put Malgus firmly above Anakin. And that includes Anakin's one "super" feat.

This is ROTS Anakin too

> Complains about metal arm
> Anakin always has that metal arm
> Malgus' entire body was fitted with cybernetics, IIRC

LMAO. Your excuses are pathetic.

When that moody 20 year old has superior feats, far superior reserves, far superior Force augmentation, and has outdone feats of beings of similar/greater size and strength than Malgus, then yeah it's common sense that Malgus will be eating his own respirator after a brawl with Anakin.

Also, lol at the bandwagon fallacy you just pulled there.

Who has he beaten physically in a duel the same size as Malgus?

Nobody, but him dominating Kenobi far more conclusively than Grievous(someone who is indeed a rival for Malgus' size and his superior strength-wise) should clearly imply he can do that.

Heavily dominating someone below the likes of Malgus (Kenobi) still doesn't mean he'll beat Malgus. Grievous' main advantages come from his durability but yeah. I'm still not totally convinced that Grievous > Malgus in strength. Can you give me some solid feats?

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Heavily dominating someone below the likes of Malgus (Kenobi) still doesn't mean he'll beat Malgus.

> Assuming Kenobi is below Malgus.
> KEK

Even if he is, it's not a dramatic difference. And still, a hindered Anakin dominating him(who's at least comparable to Malgus) should certainly prove how a superior Anakin is beating Malgus in any H2H fight they may have.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Grievous' main advantages come from his durability but yeah. I'm still not totally convinced that Grievous > Malgus in strength. Can you give me some solid feats?

Breaking lightsaber resistant phrik alloy, crushing Jedi's skulls and bones casually(better than crushing the trachea which is factually one of the most sensitive parts of the body), deflecting blasters with his claws, ripping apart durasteel, among other feats. Better than Malgus.

Originally posted by MythLord
> Assuming Kenobi is below Malgus.
> KEK

Even if he is, it's not a dramatic difference. And still, a hindered Anakin dominating him(who's at least comparable to Malgus) should certainly prove how a superior Anakin is beating Malgus in any H2H fight they may have.



Breaking lightsaber resistant phrik alloy, crushing Jedi's skulls and bones casually(better than crushing the trachea which is factually one of the most sensitive parts of the body), deflecting blasters with his claws, ripping apart durasteel, among other feats. Better than Malgus.

I meant in physical strength. I don't think Anakin could just ragdoll Malgus.
They are good feats but Grievous is just inconsistent. Pretending TCW never existed, Greivous probably does win.

I think more needs to be shown on Malgus tbh, but good points made. Cheers Myth

Um, Malgus having bigger muscles doesn't mean anything lol. Sidious was casually matching Oppress's saber locks one handed.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Is this in reference to the fight on Mustafar? We see Obi-Wan being overpowered in hand-to-hand at one point, and he could've well had his bones reach near-breaking point. It's not exactly clear, hence why the novel's explanation is relevant. Unless, of course, you're trying to deny perfectly countable showings for the sake of elevating your favorites?
Did Obi-Wan Kenobi suffer any fractures or broken bones?

Originally posted by SunRazer
That's because she ended up cartwheeling into a rock.
No.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Compare that to Obi-Wan being accelerated into the Invisible Hand's wall with such force that the hydrofoam permacrete fell onto him, and even then he emerged unscathed except for a bump on his head. As you can imagine, Obi-Wan's Force-augmented durability is vastly beyond Aryn Leneer's, and Anakin came close to breaking his arms when considerably hindered. Now imagine Anakin at full strength. Beyond Malgus's strength? I think so.
I have an analogy for you:

A Lockheed plane L-188 Electra crashed in 1971, killing all on-board with the exception of a 17 year old girl.

I suppose that 17 year old girl was the strongest individual in the plane?

People have come out nearly unscathed from accidents that should eviscerate you. Even children.

Coming back to Star Wars:

Darth Malgus sent Jedi Master Ven Zallow crashing into a fallen column of stone with such a force that the latter bore right through it. But Ven Zallow endured no visible injury from the ordeal.

I suppose that Ven Zallow was much tougher than Aryn Leener.

Your assumption is utterly flawed.

Originally posted by SunRazer
You mean stuff that Grievous has done? He's crushed a Jedi Master's skull, literally smashed Sha'a Gi to death, kicked Ki-Adi Mundi into steel pillars with enough force to knock down said pillars, shattered phrik (which is lightsaber-resistant), and done this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4228550-vs+rogues.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4228551-vs+rogues2.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4228552-vs+rogues3.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4228553-vs+rogues4.png

This is the same guy that Dooku repeatedly duels against without struggle (not for the majority of cases, at least).
OK

I suppose that the likes of Nahdar Vebb, Asajj Ventress and Kit Fisto are much tougher than Darth Malgus because they exchanged blows with General Grievous and did just fine?

My friend, you don't have a point here.

Originally posted by SunRazer
See above.
Enjoy my one-shotting.

I'll respond tomorrow. You had no decent counters for any of it. Please don't boast about one-shotting prematurely.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I didn't say he broke his bones, I said he came close to it.
Good

You brought a meaningless point.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Canonical and legitimate facts, yes.
Film >> fanciful interpretations of events

Originally posted by SunRazer
She was vomiting blood because she cartwheeled into a rock. As I mentioned above, Obi-Wan's withstood immensely greater hits without being nearly as hurt. He's far, far more durable, and Anakin nearly broke his bones.
Addressed above. Your point is utterly flawed.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Hard to say that when you're trying to deny somebody of their source so that you can win the debate.
I call spade a spade.

Legend, that's an embarrassing analogy. Impacts are a very exact science; there may be some variation in who survives what, but physical injuries are pretty predictable. If you had footage of that 17 year old you'd be able to tell that she didn't get hit in a lethal manner or whatever. The luck was that she didn't get impacted as much, not that her body's material properties magically changed. In Kenobi's case, his impacts are documented and easy to see; there's no case for saying it was "chance".

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Legend, that's an embarrassing analogy. Impacts are a very exact science; there may be some variation in who survives what, but physical injuries are pretty predictable. If you had footage of that 17 year old you'd be able to tell that she didn't get hit in a lethal manner or whatever. The luck was that she didn't get impacted as much, not that her body's material properties magically changed. In Kenobi's case, his impacts are documented and easy to see; there's no case for saying it was "chance".
Do you have that footage?

There are many other examples. Sole survivors did not come out unscathed. Some were on the brink of death at the time of rescue.

We even have this example: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/man-drives-off-cliff-california_us_5702ab9de4b0a06d58064a0a

Keep finding excuses. They are amusing.

Your ignorance of physics and yet insistence on lecturing people on the subject is just an insult on human intelligence. You do realize that impact physics is an actual field of academic research (though these basic questions are pretty much solved), and the lives of millions, yours included, are dependent on these events being predictable, right? We can run computer simulations on collisions - heck, if we know exactly the input conditions, we can predict the outcome exactly
on a macro level from Newton.

Yes, some freak survivals occur, but that's because the conditions were different, not because the physics have random variations in them. In this case, we know the conditions of Kenobi's injuries because we can see them on the screen. Show me a case where a 17 year old survives a huge crash, we see the footage and we literally can't explain with our physics how she survived, and you might actually become famous.

Now the extent of people's ability to survive things is a little
tougher to predict, but we're talking about Obi Wan's physical durability, not whether he blacks out.

http://i.imgur.com/H4cUr4b.gif

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Your ignorance of physics and yet insistence on lecturing people on the subject is just an insult on human intelligence.
You need to tone down your pathetic mocking attempts and assuming that I am ignorant of everything.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
You do realize that impact physics is an actual field of academic research (though these basic questions are pretty much solved), and the lives of millions, yours included, are dependent on these events being predictable, right? We can run computer simulations on collisions - heck, if we know exactly the input conditions, we can predict the outcome exactly
on a macro level from Newton.
Right.

Now provide me scientific explanation of reasons for survival of that 17 year old girl. I am waiting.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yes, some freak survivals occur, but that's because the conditions were different, not because the physics have random variations in them. In this case, we know the conditions of Kenobi's injuries because we can see them on the screen. Show me a case where a 17 year old survives a huge crash, we see the footage and we literally can't explain with our physics how she survived, and you might actually become famous.
Right.

http://www.cbs46.com/story/32370287/man-survives-fiery-head-on-collision-thanks-to-stranger

Like I said, your excuses are amusing.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
http://i.imgur.com/H4cUr4b.gif
Butt-hurt is real.

Suck it up.

Is Legend now arguing that Newtonian mechanics are not deterministic?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Is Legend now arguing that Newtonian mechanics are not deterministic?
I am not interested in theoretical explanations.

Provide me documented evidence of reasons of survival of that 17 year old girl or shut-up.

It's a yes or no: do you think Newtonian mechanics is deterministic?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
It's a yes or no: do you think Newtonian mechanics is deterministic?
Not taking your bait.

Food for thought: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-33268614

You cannot prove that every individual would make it out alive from the experiences of those survivors. Don't post bullshit.

Be honest: you don't even understand the question.

Did you ever take a physics class in your life, Legend?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Be honest: you don't even understand the question.

Did you ever take a physics class in your life, Legend?
I am waiting for a real argument.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am waiting for a real argument.

Nice edit, lol. You were about to get sig'd.

The question of determinism isn't there to "bait" you; it's a legitimate request for you to clarify your position. What are you trying to argue, exactly? Do you seriously think Newtonian mechanics incorporates luck?

For smart people:

On Christmas Eve 1971, lightning struck Lansa Flight 508 over Peru, causing it to explode. Juliane Koepcke was the only survivor of the 92 people on board after falling two miles strapped in to her seat. Sat in the next seat, her mother's final words were "that is the end, it's all over".

Completely alone in the rainforest, the 17-year-old was covered in deep gashes, and had a broken collarbone and ruptured knee ligaments. However, she had been taught survival skills by her father whilst being raised at a remote jungle research station.

After walking for 10 days, fighting mosquitoes and hunger, she began to float down a large river where she was saved by a passing boat.
Once on board she realised a wound on her arm had become infested with maggots. Remembering her father's advice she poured petrol on it and picked more than 30 maggots out.

In 2000, the documentary maker Werner Herzog released a film about her story, entitled Wings of Hope. Herzog was inspired to make the film after a last-minute change caused him to miss Koepcke's doomed flight.

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-33268614

Tell me how many can endure all of that and live to tell the tale?

Again, what's your point? That it was a miracle? That physics suspended itself for her benefit? It's a legitimate request for people to ask you to clarify your position when it makes no f*cking sense.

Also it's funny that you call yourself smart, and have shown multiple times that you think you know physics because you read some newspaper articles on the Internet.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Again, what's your point? That it was a miracle? That physics suspended itself for her benefit? It's a legitimate request for people to ask you to clarify your position when it makes no f*cking sense.

Also it's funny that you call yourself smart, and have shown multiple times that you think you know physics because you read some newspaper articles on the Internet.
Do you seriously think that every individual in her shoes would have survived? Kindly do me a favor; shoot yourself.

Yes, I believe in luck. Don't bring science into stuff that even it cannot properly explain.

That woman endured significant injuries for 10 days. She had survival skills and they helped. But her survival is nothing short of a miracle.

Why am I bothering to study engineering when Legend has shown us that nothing matters because a 17 year old survived an airplane crash?

Hey, could you do my homework for me? I'll pay you.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Yes, I believe in luck. Don't bring science into stuff that even it cannot properly explain.


http://i.imgur.com/lClTAOs.gif

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Why am I bothering to study engineering when Legend has shown us that nothing matters because a 17 year old survived an airplane crash?

Hey, could you do my homework for me? I'll pay you.
When you will write a research paper representing scientific explanation of survival of that 17 year old girl under the given circumstances and validation of hypothesis that any individual could make it out in her shoes, let me know through PM.

I will pay you for sharing your publication with me.

There are no such things as miracles.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Be honest: you don't even understand the question.

Did you ever take a physics class in your life, Legend? Who needs a physics class? What LeGenD is disputing is basic common sense.

Honestly I'm legitimately surprised that even he could be this stupid, this is incredible.

@Legend That would be like saying you'll pay to read Latin if the grammar is right. How the hell would you know?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Who needs a physics class? What LeGenD is disputing is basic common sense.

Honestly I'm legitimately surprised that even he could be this stupid, this is incredible.

It also invalidates Vitiate's feats because they could all be luck.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
@Legend That would be like saying you'll pay to read Latin if the grammar is right. How the hell would you know?
I will surprise you.

But please choose English language.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Who needs a physics class? What LeGenD is disputing is basic common sense.

Honestly I'm legitimately surprised that even he could be this stupid, this is incredible.
Here comes another freak. I suppose that you have a scientific explanation of the real-life event that I cited?

Originally posted by quanchi112
There are no such things as miracles.
I respect your belief.

But I will stick with mine. Thank you.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Here comes another freak. person with a modicum of intelligence. I suppose that you have a scientific explanation of the real-life event that I cited? Yes, Ellimist already provided it:
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Legend, that's an embarrassing analogy. Impacts are a very exact science; there may be some variation in who survives what, but physical injuries are pretty predictable. If you had footage of that 17 year old you'd be able to tell that she didn't get hit in a lethal manner or whatever. The luck was that she didn't get impacted as much, not that her body's material properties magically changed. In Kenobi's case, his impacts are documented and easy to see; there's no case for saying it was "chance".

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes, Ellimist already provided it.
He proved nothing. He is making assumptions.

He claims that that girl wasn't impacted as much as the others during the crash. How can he know? Did he get to examine the bodies of all the individuals in that flight to prove his hypothesis?

Here is the entire revelation:

On Christmas Eve 1971, lightning struck Lansa Flight 508 over Peru, causing it to explode. Juliane Koepcke was the only survivor of the 92 people on board after falling two miles strapped in to her seat. Sat in the next seat, her mother's final words were "that is the end, it's all over".

Completely alone in the rainforest, the 17-year-old was covered in deep gashes, and had a broken collarbone and ruptured knee ligaments. However, she had been taught survival skills by her father whilst being raised at a remote jungle research station.

After walking for 10 days, fighting mosquitoes and hunger, she began to float down a large river where she was saved by a passing boat.
Once on board she realised a wound on her arm had become infested with maggots. Remembering her father's advice she poured petrol on it and picked more than 30 maggots out.

In 2000, the documentary maker Werner Herzog released a film about her story, entitled Wings of Hope. Herzog was inspired to make the film after a last-minute change caused him to miss Koepcke's doomed flight.

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-33268614

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I respect your belief.

But I will stick with mine. Thank you. God is an *******.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He proved nothing. He is making assumptions.

He claims that that girl didn't impacted as much as the others. How can he know? Did he get to examine the bodies of all the individuals in that flight?

Here is the entire revelation:

On Christmas Eve 1971, lightning struck Lansa Flight 508 over Peru, causing it to explode. Juliane Koepcke was the only survivor of the 92 people on board after falling two miles strapped in to her seat. Sat in the next seat, her mother's final words were "that is the end, it's all over".

Completely alone in the rainforest, the 17-year-old was covered in deep gashes, and had a broken collarbone and ruptured knee ligaments. However, she had been taught survival skills by her father whilst being raised at a remote jungle research station.

After walking for 10 days, fighting mosquitoes and hunger, she began to float down a large river where she was saved by a passing boat.
Once on board she realised a wound on her arm had become infested with maggots. Remembering her father's advice she poured petrol on it and picked more than 30 maggots out.

In 2000, the documentary maker Werner Herzog released a film about her story, entitled Wings of Hope. Herzog was inspired to make the film after a last-minute change caused him to miss Koepcke's doomed flight.

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-33268614 Because she is not dead? If she suffered the same trauma as those who died, she would be dead, as logic dictates. The fact she did not proves she was lucky enough to escape the same level of trauma and therefore survive. Which yes, is an extremely slim possibility, but a possibility nonetheless.

The same goes for essentially every example you raised.

If you disagree provide an alternate explanation. Are these people are secretly superhuman? Did the hand God intervene? Witchcraft?

Well I guess the thread has gone from Malgus vs. Dooku, to an arm wrestling contest between Anakin and Malgus, to us making fun of Legend's ramblings about magic.

Such is the cancer Legend brings to KMC.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because she is not dead? If she suffered the same trauma as those who died, she would be dead, as logic dictates. The fact she did not proves she was lucky enough to escape the same level of trauma and therefore survive. Which yes, is an extremely slim possibility, but a possibility nonetheless.

The same goes for essentially every example you raised.
Should I take this as a tacit agreement with my POV? I suppose I should.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
If you disagree provide an alternate explanation. Are these people are secretly superhuman? Did the hand God intervene? Witchcraft?
I never said that she was superhuman. She had survival skills though.

Sweetie, by "luck", Beni does not mean she had divine intervention, he just means some things fell in her favor. That doesn't mean physics were suspended just so that she could survive, Lawl.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Should I take this as a tacit agreement with my POV? I suppose I should.No because in the instance being discussed we see quite clearly what happens to Kenobi, and he does not escape significant trauma. Instead its described, in detail, how his head collides with a bulkhead and extreme velocities, causing it to buckle.

Likewise we see quite clearly, that Ven Zallow hits that wall head on and goes clean through it, there is no room to debate a miraculous escape here, because we are fully aware of the circumstances.Which had nothing to do with surviving the crash, only not succumbing to her injuries after it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Such is the cancer Legend brings to KMC.
Right.

You are taking Ellimist's at face-value because you don't believe in luck like him. Fact is that neither you and nor he is in the position to validate his .

None of us know whether that girl was impacted as much as the others (or not) during that accident. And neither should any self-proclaimed smart@ss attempt to offer an explanation without having examined body of each victim of that accident and the crash site itself.

The girl not just survived the trauma but she managed to sustain herself in the jungle for 10 days in spite of her injuries. She had survival skills and they helped her endure the entire ordeal.

I am just saying that not many can be in her shoes and live to tell the tale.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No because in the instance being discussed we see quite clearly what happens to Kenobi, and he does not escape significant trauma. Instead its described, in detail, how his head collides with a bulkhead and extreme velocities, causing it to buckle.

Likewise we see quite clearly, that Ven Zallow hits that wall head on and goes clean through it, there is no room to debate a miraculous escape here, because we are fully aware of the circumstances.
Obi-Wan Kenobi and Ven Zallow are Force-users. They are superhumans; they could protect themselves. Understand?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Which had nothing to do with surviving the crash, only not succumbing to her injuries after it.
Do you think that many would not have succumbed to those injuries even in a span of 10 days in a jungle?

There's this thing called Science that has done a better job than any philosophical system ever invented at describing the natural world. You should google it sometime after you acquaint yourself with other basics of the modern world like cars and sanitation.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Obi-Wan Kenobi and Ven Zallow are Force-users. They are superhumans; they could protect themselves. Understand?Lmao do you even remember what the original point was? God you're stupid.Who gives a flying ****? We are talking about blunt force trauma, not how well they handle their injuries after the fact. Completely irrelevant, you are utterly retarded.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Right.

You are taking Ellimist's at face-value because you don't believe in luck like him. Fact is that neither you and nor he is in the position to validate his .

None of us know whether that girl was impacted as much as the others (or not) during that accident. And neither should any self-proclaimed smart@ss attempt to offer an explanation without having examined body of each victim of that accident and the crash site itself.

The girl not just survived the trauma but she managed to sustain herself in the jungle for 10 days in spite of her injuries. She had survival skills and they helped her endure the entire ordeal.

I am just saying that not many can be in her shoes and live to tell the tale. She again, evidently wasn't, hence why she's alive. End of discussion.

Feel free to again provide an alternate explanation, remembering that witchcraft, divine intervention and even luck (as far as it exists outside of logical probability) do not exist in the SW universe, which I'd remind you (because you are actually stupid enough to need reminding) we are discussing.

And no they can't, because 9/10 she and others would have died.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
There's this thing called Science that has done a better job than any philosophical system ever invented at describing the natural world. You should google it sometime after you acquaint yourself with other basics of the modern world like cars and sanitation.
There is this thing called common sense. You may need to acquaint yourself with it. Google will be a good start.

And don't forget to write a scientific paper in relation to the referred accident to debunk my stance on that issue.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
She again, evidently wasn't, hence why she's alive. End of discussion.

Feel free to again provide an alternate explanation, remembering that witchcraft, divine intervention and even luck (as far as it exists outside of logical probability) do not exist in the SW universe, which I'd remind you (because you are actually stupid enough to need reminding) we are discussing.

And no they can't, because 9/10 she and others would have died.
Right.

I have another example to share. Malala Yousafzai was shot in the head and survived it. Of-course, medical assistance was necessary to save her.

But how many would have survived in her shoes? Any scientific explanation?

Yes actually, in fact you'll find science has a lot of explanations for a lot of things:

http://www.livescience.com/9234-survive-bullet-brain.html
http://www.medicinenet.com/surviving_a_gunshot_wound_to_the_head/views.htmOriginally posted by Beniboybling
God you're stupid.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes actually, in fact you'll find science has a lot of explanations for a lot of things:

http://www.livescience.com/9234-survive-bullet-brain.html
http://www.medicinenet.com/surviving_a_gunshot_wound_to_the_head/views.htm
Dude,

I thought you have common sense but it is clearly lacking. Once again, I am not interested in scientific explanations of how an individual can survive a particular trauma.

My point is that can YOU live to tell the tale after experiencing a similar life-threatening ordeal? Perhaps you can. Perhaps not. This is the gist of my argument.

I might chop-off your arm and you may (or may not) perish due to resultant blood-loss. Only one way to find out.

Additional food for thought: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/human-survival-11-incredible-stories-1560491

> explicitly asks for scientific explanation
> says he wasn't asking for one

Lawl

Gosh this is painful, you asked for a scientific explanation and I gave you one, in which it was explained to be a matter of probability.

Sometimes the odds align in your favour and you get "lucky".

This was again, not the case for Kenobi. Now I'm going to quote the scene for you, try to pay attention.
There is again, no room to argue that he escaped significant trauma, at no point does "luck" save him from hitting the floor or slamming into the wall. Nor is his unscathed survival attributed to chance or a miracle, but his endurance capabilities. Your point is therefore moot.

And that's my last post on the matter, I'm only willing to humour your stupidity for so long.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lmao do you even remember what the original point was? God you're stupid.
No.

Someone else was typing in my place.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Who gives a flying ****? We are talking about blunt force trauma, not how well they handle their injuries after the fact. Completely irrelevant, you are utterly retarded.
This is grade-A retardation.

Force-based defenses can be used to mitigate the effects of a blunt-force trauma. Obi-Wan Kenobi and Ven Zallow were Force-users and (most likely) used the Force to mitigate the effects of blunt trauma that each experienced.

Darth Malgus's blow caught Aryn Leener off-guard but she still managed to mitigate the effects of the blunt trauma through her Force-based defenses and remained battle-ready in spite of the ordeal.

None of the aforementioned examples prove which Force-user was more powerful and/or more durable. Therefore, SunRazer's argument is weak.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Gosh this is painful, you asked for a scientific explanation and I gave you one, in which it was explained to be a matter of probability.

Sometimes the odds align in your favour and you get "lucky".

This was again, not the case for Kenobi. Now I'm going to quote the scene for you, try to pay attention.

There is again, no room to argue that he escaped significant trauma, at no point does "luck" save him from hitting the floor or slamming into the wall. Nor is his unscathed survival attributed to chance or a miracle, but his endurance capabilities. Your point is therefore moot.

And that's my last post on the matter, I'm only willing to humour your stupidity for so long.
So all humans have same level of endurance irrespective of their physiology?

Physiology, survival skills and other factors make no difference in life-threatening situations?

Let us consider an analogy:

Person A is bulky and strong and Person B is thin and weak. Both are struck by a hammer in the head at the same spot. Would both tolerate the blow on equal footing and/or suffer exactly same injuries and/or die at the same time?

Your mocking is cheap, my friend.

Obi-Wan Kenobi, Ven Zallow and Aryn Leener may or may not be in the same TIER in the aspect of endurance and/or Force-based defenses. One thing is clear that they could use the Force to mitigate the effects of a blunt-force trauma. And they did.

Now take a good look at the argument of SunRazer:

"That's because she ended up cartwheeling into a rock. Compare that to Obi-Wan being accelerated into the Invisible Hand's wall with such force that the hydrofoam permacrete fell onto him, and even then he emerged unscathed except for a bump on his head. As you can imagine, Obi-Wan's Force-augmented durability is vastly beyond Aryn Leneer's, and Anakin came close to breaking his arms when considerably hindered. Now imagine Anakin at full strength. Beyond Malgus's strength? I think so."

This argument is weak. My response is right above.

Not as weak as Malgus tho

^ dude, the whole point is that Obi Wan has remarkable endurance. Thanks for finally conceding.

Beni, you have an irrational problem with LeG, and it's getting on my nerves.

Dooku sweeps, yeah.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Not as weak as Malgus tho
Right.

Darth Malgus just tanked missiles and mountain-shattering forces.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Beni, you have an irrational problem with LeG, and it's getting on my nerves. Implying having a problem with LeG is irrational. Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Right.

Darth Malgus just tanked missiles and mountain-shattering forces. Luck tbh. These things happen.

Beni, I must admit, you're too salty to be strong.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Luck tbh. These things happen.
You (and fellow member Ellimist] are masters of taking things out of context and promoting your assumptions as established facts.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You (and fellow member Ellimist] are masters of taking things out of context and promoting your assumptions as established facts. I believe in miracles, show some respect.

I'll sum up this thread for those who didn't follow it from the beggining:
Dooku vs Malgus
Anakin vs Malgus
Luck vs Science
God vs Science
"You are retarded if you agree with my point of view"
Other random insults and death threats
On Topic:
Sabers Dooku
Force Malgus
All out Either way, but I'm leaning towards Dooku for a slim majority
You guys should learn to respect other people's opinion without insulting them, though

Originally posted by The Ellimist
^ dude, the whole point is that Obi Wan has remarkable endurance. Thanks for finally conceding.

Anyway, I think Lefend has used up his funny for us. Let's debate the topic.

Jeez, I just read the luck vs science part of the thread...

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Beni, you have an irrational problem with LeG, and it's getting on my nerves.
Beni's finally going all out. Shut the **** up.

I can't ****ing catch this Landorus right now, and it's pissing me off.

That 17 year old that survived the plane crash is probably more durable than Aryn Leneer

This was a painful read. Legend, here's the problem and the point no one is mentioning. If someone had the same physiology as that little girl, was sitting in the same position, at the same time, and had the same survival skills it would be logical to conclude that they likely would have survived just as well. Likewise, we can conclude based on this, we know that force users are super humans in that they can use the force. Some force users, via better control, or higher potential can use the force better/stronger than their peers.

If Obi Wan has taken similar hits as Aryn Leneer and less damage it can be said that he has better force reserves, more power, or more control. Either way he is capable of mitigating more damage which provides him more durability. We can conclude, based on logic, that if he was hit in the same way as Aryn Leneer he would probably take less damage. This would be a logical conclusion based on the evidence at hand.

The little girl surviving the plane crash is a testament to her knowledge of survival, her pain tolerance, and her seating arrangement in proportion to the people around her. It doesn't mean, had she been sitting in any other seat, that the outcome of her survival would be the same. Likewise, most people with the same injuries, probably would succumb to pain or even infection. This would make it a logical conclusion to claim that she has higher pain tolerance and survival skills than most other people, possibly even some/most/all of the other passengers.

This doesn't prove your point but only reinforces theirs.

Malgus.

Dooku IMO.

It's stupid to think that Obi-Wan must be better than Aryn just because he took a hit better than her. If we look at the actual attack:

"She was unready for the blow. The Force-augmented impact exploded a spark shower in her brain and sent her cartwheeling away from Malgus; she slammed into a rock and landed on her side ten meters away. Adrenaline pulled her to her feet, though she swayed unsteadily. She spat a mouthful of blood and held both lightsabers at the ready."

Not only is Sunrazer lying about the attack being from hitting a rock, as that isn't made apparent, but we can see that Malgus augmented his punch, while already being strong enough to kick someone across a room and through a pillar and being stronger than Aryn who can toss Malgus 20 meters with one hand, with the Force. I don't think I need to remind anyone of how powerful Malgus is with TK and explain why taking that kind of hit directly to the face, notably without being ready for it and therefore unlikely to have defended herself with the Force, would be kind of a big deal. I mean, we're talking about a man who fodderised a Jedi who was busting multiple buildings.

Furthermore, while Obi-Wan could have used the force to cushion his impact with the wall or protect himself, Leneer clearly wasn't able to since she was surprised and stunned, "exploded a spark shower in her brain", by being Force-punched in the head.

Also it's not like Kenobi hasn't been knocked out by a single kick from Ventress or a myriad of lesser attacks at other times.


Also x2 this whole debate is entirely pointless since Sunrazer's feat of Kenobi hitting a wall hard enough to buckle the hydrofoam permacrete is...... entirely non-canon.

So thanks for wasting everyones time.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also x2 this whole debate is entirely pointless since Sunrazer's feat of Kenobi hitting a wall hard enough to buckle the hydrofoam permacrete is...... entirely non-canon.

So thanks for wasting everyones time.

I remember in a TCW Episode he was being clowned by some non force sensitive in a fistfight.

Can't remember what it was though, he was being held captive.

It was the mandalore plot. He got beat up by two mandos.

No it was a single guy who captured him and took him to an office or something, he wanted revenge. Kenobi had like some hidden transponder on him and Anakin came to rescue him, it was a diversion or something

Amazingly I have actually seen that episode and even more amazingly carthage is right about Kenobi getting smacked around.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also x2 this whole debate is entirely pointless since Sunrazer's feat of Kenobi hitting a wall hard enough to buckle the hydrofoam permacrete is...... entirely non-canon.

So thanks for wasting everyones time.

Just like Aryn

Dooku wins because Malgus doesn't exist.

Yeah, running along to the Canon denial argument doesn't work when there's a thread with a Legends character

I love the smell of salt. Does salt smell? I'm gonna go test.....

Anyway, Malgus exists as Legends. The alternate RotS duel exists as worthless garbage because it contradicts the movie.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I love the smell of salt. Does salt smell?

Retard alert.

Zoltan, stop belittling yourself and instead obsessively research player stats

Maybe a Miller vs PG analysis would inspire me to do that.


Maybe.

Fine. I'll legit send it to you tomorrow. No joke.