Rank these characters in physical strength

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



The Ellimist
Force augmentation is allowed.

Luke Skywalker
Anakin Skywalker
Darth Caedus
Marka Ragnos
Darth Malgus
Mace Windu
Exar Kun
Darth Bane
General Grievous
Darth Vader
Darth Maul
Savage Oppress
Saba Sebatyne

SunRazer
Saba's performance against Abeloth was damn ridiculous.

chingchangwalla
You son of a *****.

chingchangwalla
Vader's possibly number 1

The Ellimist
Luke logically should be at the top, he was breaking Abeloth's ribs with his fists iirc.

chingchangwalla
Oh ok. I didn't see the augmentation. Luke is without a doubt Number 1 then.

SunRazer
Saba punched out Abeloth's teeth and bit her head off, lol.

And yes, I know it was a greatly weakened Abeloth. She was still capable of biting through sheet metal, IIRC.

MythLord
Saba, Annie, Caedus and Vader are competitors for number 1.

The rest are irrelevant.

The Ellimist
Didn't Luke slice through lightsaber resistant Vong armor?

SunRazer
Grievous sliced through lightsaber-resistant phrik electrostaffs the first time he got his hands on a lightsaber. It's not that overwhelming.

The Ellimist
mmm I don't think that's the same level of resistant, but ok.

Not at you but some like Maul and Oppress may be physically imposing, but Sidious was casually blocking them with one hand. The Force (obviously) matters more.

SunRazer
Well, Luke >>>>>>> Grievous.

Ziggystardust
Kun is physically the stongest here due to smashing that thick wall of Mando Iron. Especially when you consider that the Dark Lady forged the handle of her lightwhip out of the near-indestructible Mandalorian iron, and uses that hilt to block opposing lightsabers - such as Vaders. Then one must remember that little incident with Luke Skywalker, where the Grandmaster confronts the person who (he thought) killed his wife, and decides to batter his opponent with signature Form V attacks:



Sacrifice

Lumiya - while driven back to a cliff edge - still manages to parry every single one of the Jedi Grandmaster's strikes with the hilt of her whip. A hilt made of the same material that Kun - not close to his prime - destroys in two hits.

The Ellimist
The real question is how the f*ck Jango was killing Jedi with his bare hands (???)

MythLord
Kun wasn't even physically smashing the Mando Iron. From what I recall, he's increased the intensity of the lightsaber's cutting power and then proceeded to cut through it.

chingchangwalla
Originally posted by MythLord
Kun wasn't even physically smashing the Mando Iron. From what I recall, he's increased the intensity of the lightsaber's cutting power and then proceeded to cut through it.

That sounds more likely tbh

Ziggystardust
Originally posted by MythLord
Kun wasn't even physically smashing the Mando Iron. From what I recall, he's increased the intensity of the lightsaber's cutting power and then proceeded to cut through it.

Customized controls allowed him to adjust each blade's length from half a meter to one and a half meters. Panels controlled each blade's intensity: at its highest setting, a blade was like any other lightsaber, with the ability to cut through dense materials such as armor plating and durasteel with virtually no resistance. At the lowest power setting, a blade became a simple shaft of light, delivering no damage and providing no resistance against incoming lightsaber attacks.

Excerpt - The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology

Ziggystardust
The only two people who are stronger are Anakin (zone) and Luke. But given Kun's Force feats, it's no surprise his augmentation is ridiculously above - pretty much everyone bar those two. Caedus couldn't break Beskar with his strength or his lightsaber, and needed to learn how to exploit the flaws in Mandolorians' Forging process with shatterpoint.

AncientPower
He did genuinely batter through that Mandalorian iron wall, it was like multiple feet thick too. Comparatively, Caedus needed shatterpoint to break through a thin armor plate of the stuff, despite his best efforts.

Edit: Seems my post is rather redundant.

MythLord
Oddly enough, Kun's lightsaber cuts through the iron without much issue after he sets it to it's highest intensity. Also noteworthy is how the same scan that shows him accomplishing the feat notes he senses a power that "wants to help him" as he sets the blade to it's "highest intensity" and then breaks the wall:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5316789-kun+vs+wall+1.png

To answer your point, AP, the wall wasn't that thick, seems only like a foot or so:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5316790-kun+vs+wall+2.png

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5316791-kun+vs+wall+3.png

Ziggystardust
I don't see any proof of an 'amp'. Kun senses a power that wants to help him, that power being the spectral embodiment of Freedon Nadd, who appears in front of Kun and helps him find a pair of scrolls that lead to the "last home of the Sith", which would count as the "help". Anyway, it's pretty obvious that Nadd wasn't imbuing his power, as it's revealed that Kun has to "accept the Darkside" before such an occurrence: On the original point, Kun is successful in smashing the thick wall of Beskarr on his second attempt due to changing his lightsaber intensity, as narrated. Yes, but then we have the passage from Weapons and Tech stating it's highest intensity is no more powerful than a Regular blade.

AncientPower
Highest intensity, as Ziggy has already showed, is no more than the average intensity of any other lightsaber.

The power you refer to is likely the spirit of Freedon Nadd, but it's hardly evidence of some form of boost. Even if it was, this is still pre-dark side Exar Kun, who doesn't even compare to Exar Kun on Yavin IV.

The scans you kindly provided, clearly depict a hole a few feet long.

The Ellimist
Is there any reason to think that Beskar is comparable to modern era Beskar?

AncientPower
Because it's the same ore and the secrets of forging it came from Mandalorians of the Old Sith wars era....

Ziggystardust
Any reason to believe those light-sabers are as strong as modern era lightsabers?

Remember - this is a contest of who's stronger...

The Ellimist
That doesn't mean it hasn't been refined or improved upon in several thousand years. What are its showings in the old eras?

AncientPower
Ever heard of the Mando Wars? The tomb of Freedon Nadd is stated to be impervious to lightsaber blows by Kun himself in the same scene. He's just ludicrously strong.

Edit: I don't usually ask this, but source for the Beskar forging techniques being refined? Because by Legacy of the Force those teachings are almost dead.

The Ellimist
Lightsabers are primarily doing damage through heat.

AncientPower
Star Wars logic. He broke through that lightsaber impervious wall the same way he broke through Vodo's Force-imbued staff, which is stated to be stronger than any lightsaber blade.

The Ellimist
Star Wars logic?

AncientPower
Lightsaber blades, for some reason, seem to transfer strength of the weilder at a far higher magnitude than they should. The same applies here.

MythLord
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
I don't see any proof of an 'amp'. Kun senses a power that wants to help him, that power being the spectral embodiment of Freedon Nadd, who appears in front of Kun and helps him find a pair of scrolls that lead to the "last home of the Sith", which would count as the "help". Anyway, it's pretty obvious that Nadd wasn't imbuing his power, as it's revealed that Kun has to "accept the Darkside" before such an occurrence:

Kun did accept the Dark Side, though, the moment Nadd's power touched him. Given how he sensed a power wanting to help him, and then goes on to slicing the Beskar. Occams Razor would dictate that Nadd's help was involved with Exar's cutting of the wall, given how it's stated there was a force that wanted to help him right before he struck said wall.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
On the original point, Kun is successful in smashing the thick wall of Beskarr on his second attempt due to changing his lightsaber intensity, as narrated. Yes, but then we have the passage from Weapons and Tech stating it's highest intensity is no more powerful than a Regular blade.

Then a regular lightsaber can cut Beskar armor, assuming one uses enough strength to pierce it. Besides, pre-prime Grievous has similar feats.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The scans you kindly provided, clearly depicts a hole a few feet long.

From the third scan I posted, it seems to be only somewhat more thick than a lightsaber hilt is long, which is around 28 centimeters. So I'd say a foot is a fair estimate.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lightsabers are primarily doing damage through heat.

That's... actually not true. I believe the Jedi Path notes a lightsaber's feat can only boil water, which I'm pretty sure wouldn't be enough to cut Grievous.

I don't even think that will cut humans, just burn them.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by The Ellimist
The real question is how the f*ck Jango was killing Jedi with his bare hands (???)

Tbh we don't really see how or who the Jedi Jango killed, which would be huge factors. The Jedi he killed during Open Seasons, were in the middle of a battle(plus he also used a rock on one of them), hardly going for Jango all at once and the last Jedi he didn't kill with his bare hands, but using sand and his whipcord wire.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by MythLord
Saba, Annie, Caedus and Vader are competitors for number 1.

The rest are irrelevant. Ragnos beat the shit out of his Terantatek.

Whether or not he did it with a weapon is irrelevant, he was still able to use a blunt object to physically beat the thing into submission.

AncientPower
The second scan depicts the entire hole's width and length, the third is him exiting said hole. The second scan you provided depicts a fairly long hole.

SunRazer
Revan cut through beskar in the novel, IIRC.

MythLord
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Ragnos beat the shit out of his Terantatek.

Whether or not he did it with a weapon is irrelevant, he was still able to use a blunt object to physically beat the thing into submission.

He also used the Force to make it obedient, so him beating it up can be the equivalent of my great grandad beating an 80 pound, musclular pitbull.

Saba shattering teeth capable of munching on a rancor's neck and tearing through durasteel is a better feat.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by AncientPower
Lightsaber blades, for some reason, seem to transfer strength of the weilder at a far higher magnitude than they should. The same applies here.

Or it's a combo of the heat weakening the metal and the force behind his blow breaking it. Like Grievous could.

MythLord
Originally posted by AncientPower
The second scan depicts the entire hole's width and length, the third is him exiting said hole. The second scan you provided depicts a fairly long hole.

That has nothing to do with thickness. Now, can we please stop talking about Exar Kun's hole...

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Or it's a combo of the heat weakening the metal and the force behind his blow breaking it. Like Grievous could.

That and plasma energy.

AncientPower
It depicts that the wall was multiple feet in thickness, which is absolutely relevant.

Ziggystardust
Originally posted by MythLord
Kun did accept the Dark Side, though, the moment Nadd's power touched him.

Unsubstantiated.



Here we go. Please note that Occams Razor is not - what I want something to be, when I want it. Occams Razors is the knowledge discovery system that says - given two models with the same generalization error, the one with less assumptions should be preferred. Which is where our interpretations differ.



Mythlord : Exar sensed a power that wants to help him. Assumption - he must have been amped.

Ziggs : Exar sensed a power that wants to help him. Fact - Exar did find a power that helped him by sharing scrolls leading to Korriban.

Occams Razor favors ziggs because his explanation requires the fewest assumptions, doesn't have any added context and is the simplest. And the simplest is the most desirable. The failure to break the beskar wall, followed by the intimidate success is explained by the lightsaber adjustment. That is all. However, if we were going with your explanation - that Nadd's spectre aided him - please realize, that's Kun does later one-shot Freedon Nadd with some blasts. I imagine any the potential he reached as Dark Lord of the Sith surpasses that of his Jedi self.



Well done.



What exactly is 'Pre-prime' Grevious? Is that Grevious with less physical strength than his 'prime' self. Did he undergo some major change in cybernetics? Seen as those appendages would determine his strength.

MythLord
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Unsubstantiated.

Besides, y'know, a later scan noting how Exar Kun easily accepted Nadd's dark power when it touched it.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Here we go. Please note that Occams Razor is not - what I want something to be, when I want it. Occams Razors is the knowledge discovery system that says - given two models with the same generalization error, the one with less assumptions should be preferred. Which is where our interpretations differ.

Mythlord : Exar sensed a power that wants to help him. Assumption - he must have been amped.

Ziggs : Exar sensed a power that wants to help him. Fact - Exar did find a power that helped him by sharing scrolls leading to Korriban.


Occams Razor favors ziggs because his explanation requires the fewest assumptions, doesn't have any added context and is the simplest. And the simplest is the most desirable. The failure to break the beskar wall, followed by the intimidate success is explained by the lightsaber adjustment. That is all. However, if we were going with your explanation - that Nadd's spectre aided him - please realize, that's Kun does later one-shot Freedon Nadd with some blasts. I imagine any the potential he reached as Dark Lord of the Sith surpasses that of his Jedi self.

Do you need to be overly long in your responses, lmfao? I could've worded that in three sentences. Anyways, to answer your point:

Occams Razor is, in layman's terms, taking the simplest assumption as being more correct. Here, there is no fact. Why would attaining scrolls in any way be mentioned in a scan where Exar is struggling to cut through a wall? The narration notes as Kun puts his lightsaber on the highest intensity, he feels a chill, then he senses a power that is around him and wants to help him right before he cuts through the door. Why said power would be mentioned as he pierces the door and not after he enters the tomb, prior to Nadd's awakening could only be because Nadd aided Kun is getting into his tomb.

Kun's ability to one-shot Nadd later, with the amulets of Sadow, is irrelevant in this case as I am arguing for Kun during the time he raided Freedon's tomb. He should obviously be more than capable of achieving that feat as a Sith Lord.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
What exactly is 'Pre-prime' Grevious? Is that Grevious with less physical strength than his 'prime' self. Did he undergo some major change in cybernetics? Seen as those appendages would determine his strength.

I recall him growing overall during the course of the war and as Lair of Grievous shows, he's clearly got the technology to upgrade himself. Also, he did that in TCW which, as you know, is infamous for Grievous-jobbing.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by MythLord
]
That's... actually not true. I believe the Jedi Path notes a lightsaber's feat can only boil water, which I'm pretty sure wouldn't be enough to cut Grievous.


Um, not sure if you're trolling, but we see lightsabers melting solid durasteel blast doors in TPM, lol.

MythLord
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Um, not sure if you're trolling, but we see lightsabers melting solid durasteel blast doors in TPM, lol.

Plasma energy, m8.

The Ellimist
Not sure if you're still trolling but whether the lightsaber is plasma has nothing to do with whether it transfers energy via heat, lol.

MythLord
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Not sure if you're still trolling but whether the lightsaber is plasma has nothing to do with whether it transfers energy via heat, lol.

No, trust me... Trust me... I am science.

The Ellimist
But as Legend says, isn't it just luck anyway?

Chosen_Sith
Originally posted by The Ellimist
But as Legend says, isn't it just luck anyway?

The sun rises in the morning because it's lucky.

Nephthys
Scientifically, it is lucky that the sun rises in the morning. The odds of our solar system forming were pretty wild iirc.

The Ellimist
On my last final I should've just written down a random number +/- infinity and said that the system just behaves the laws of luck.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.