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h2h only .....

Aquaman was said to be one of the most powerful being in the Omni next to Superman and Superboy...the guy is strong as hell. I'm giving this to him.

Bolt fought your boy, Glads.

Black Bolt gives him the D.

Originally posted by carver9
Aquaman was said to be one of the most powerful being in the Omni next to Superman and Superboy...the guy is strong as hell. I'm giving this to him. Originally posted by psycho gundam
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/gifs/jamar1_zpsofas9kya.gif

Bolt punches him so hard, he devolves into Ronan Dex.

Pre or Post Flashpoint Aquaman or Dual Continuity?

I have no witty lines about how the fight would go, but I like how much these two have in common.

Aquaman riding a seahorse from Superfriends.

I'm always here for you

Correction on my part...Aquaman was compared to Diana and Superman as being on of the strongest beings on the planet.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11125/111252882/4916300-strongestonearth.jpg

That is some shaky logic...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Aquaman riding a seahorse from Superfriends.

I'm always here for you

I don't recall him actually riding one in SUPERFRIENDS(except maybe the opening credits). He did however regularly ride one in the old Filmation shorts.

Originally posted by carver9
Correction on my part...Aquaman was compared to Diana and Superman as being on of the strongest beings on the planet.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11125/111252882/4916300-strongestonearth.jpg

So again you prove you'll dismiss statements unless it totally supports you.

Originally posted by Delta1938
I don't recall him actually riding one in SUPERFRIENDS(except maybe the opening credits). He did however regularly ride one in the old Filmation shorts.

Google provides with plenty results, but I barely remember that show tbh.

How about a seahorse riding Aquaman...?

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/kbegg/csffc12.jpg~original

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Google provides with plenty results, but I barely remember that show tbh.

How about a seahorse riding Aquaman...?

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/kbegg/csffc12.jpg~original

I would guess that one is from SUPER FRIENDS.

And I'm not sure about this one--

http://www.podcastdequadrinhos.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/aquaman-ameacador.png

--but these--

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/37015/935043-storm1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113933/3144703-keys.jpg

http://www.rgapfrost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/1410268-aquaman_screenshot_super.jpg

http://www.cartoonscrapbook.com/01pics/aquaman01.jpg

-are from the Filmation shorts.

https://media.giphy.com/media/10ageWiyjahs5y/giphy.gif



A part of me wants to watch those. Would make it easier to haunt Pr and other aquafans mmm

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
https://media.giphy.com/media/10ageWiyjahs5y/giphy.gif



A part of me wants to watch those. Would make it easier to haunt Pr and other aquafans mmm

Renting them(and the Superman and Batman ones) on VHS was a major part of my childhood. Don't ruin it for me.

Whoever wrote the scanned comic must be on crack.

Originally posted by carver9
Aquaman was said to be one of the most powerful being in the Omni next to Superman and Superboy...the guy is strong as hell. I'm giving this to him.

You youngsters have no idea. For many, Aquaman is and forever will be the queer on Superfriends, no Youtube. In that era, Namor was walking up to Hulk and smacking him in his shit for staring. As for the fight, Black Bolt is a superior hand to hand combatant.

probably bolt in a close one.

Aquaman gets the most hate on this forum. The guy is a monster who is physically above BB. Black bolt is beastly, no doubt but Aquaman is on another level physically imo. BB took on Hulk...nice showing. Fought Gladiator, nice showing. Aquaman took on Superman, Wonder Woman, Hercules, Cheetah, Darkseid (with a team of course); the list goes on. I'm giving him the lead.

Originally posted by carver9
Aquaman gets the most hate on this forum. The guy is a monster who is physically above BB. Black bolt is beastly, no doubt but Aquaman is on another level physically imo. BB took on Hulk...nice showing. Fought Gladiator, nice showing. Aquaman took on Superman, Wonder Woman, Hercules, Cheetah, Darkseid (with a team of course); the list goes on. I'm giving him the lead.



Aquaman is...Aquanman. He's not meant to be taken that seriously. Taken on who? When, in the last 15 minutes? D.C. is trying to make him something he's not and never was. I'm surprised to see you buy in so eagerly to this orange body shirt wearing wanna be. Let's get serious, if Superman isn't playing around with him, he's ****ing toast. Gladiator DOESN'T play around with Black Bolt and he more than holds his own.

Aquaman's best strength feat on land that I can think of by far is lifting an ocean liner. Gladiator/Hulk would make quick work of him.

I love the guy, but he's no match for BB.

Black Bolt can't really fight Gladiator or Hulk hand to hand though.

Both those fights involved the use of his voice, especially his bouts with the Hulk.

taking someone on and beating them are totally different things. ben has taken on hulk countless times but is no where close to hulk in strength. there is no way they are in different tiers and i LIKE aquaman. h2h would be extremely close. bb has also battled evenly h2h with thor and seemed superior to namor. even's even battled the sphinx and held his own. and don't forget this:

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/3368513-infinity+004-014.jpg

he appears here to have actually stopped, or at least partially stopped, a po'd thanos's punch. tbh i do NOT see am being capable of that feat.

bb has fought evenly with people at least as impressive as am has and has some clean wins against some high tier opponents where am has few wins, but rather was able to hang in battles that were mostly very short and not really fights for his life.

bb has this for maybe 6-7/10

Originally posted by krisblaze
Black Bolt can't really fight Gladiator or Hulk hand to hand though.

Both those fights involved the use of his voice, especially his bouts with the Hulk.

i'd disagree here. he could fight both for prolonged lengths of time. could be beat them h2h? no, not likely, but he could def hang for a long while. in the same way AM could never beat ww or superman h2h but could last for a bit.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd disagree here. he could fight both for prolonged lengths of time. could be beat them h2h? no, not likely, but he could def hang for a long while. in the same way AM could never beat ww or superman h2h but could last for a bit.
That's simply not true though.

In his first fight with the Savage Hulk he punched him once and then used energy attacks for their remaining 4-5 exchanges.

In their second fight I don't believe he went physical at all.

Originally posted by Cogito
Aquaman's best strength feat on land that I can think of by far is lifting an ocean liner. Gladiator/Hulk would make quick work of him.

I love the guy, but he's no match for BB.

http://keeb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/psd-thumbs-up-down-icons-300x208.png

Originally posted by krisblaze
That's simply not true though.

In his first fight with the Savage Hulk he punched him once and then used energy attacks for their remaining 4-5 exchanges.

In their second fight I don't believe he went physical at all.

eh? they grappled briefly in the first fight. the second one was the one where bolt used lightning to ko him i think. the third fight was this one i think (order could be backwards):

http://i.imgur.com/qV1sqcv.png

of course he's not beating hulk in h2h. but he's got as good or a better chance against hulk than AM has against ww or superman....

bolt is not top tier in strength, but he's close and his battles bear it out over and over again.

Originally posted by leonidas
eh? they grappled briefly in the first fight. the second one was the one where bolt used lightning to ko him i think. the third fight was this one i think (order could be backwards):

http://i.imgur.com/qV1sqcv.png

of course he's not beating hulk in h2h. but he's got as good or a better chance against hulk than AM has against ww or superman....

bolt is not top tier in strength, but he's close and his battles bear it out over and over again.

That was the one punch I referred to.

Black Bolt was very clearly his inferior.

That was in no way a showing that puts him above New 52 Aquaman.

Bolt's showings are very limited and they almost always involve his fork glowing or empowering him in some way.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsBlackBolt01Annual1.jpg.html
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsBlackBolt02.jpg.html

Read the narration in the second scan there. Hulk is crushing his hands for christsakes.

that one showing? of course it doesn't. but all his battles collectively do. least imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd disagree here. he could fight both for prolonged lengths of time. could be beat them h2h? no, not likely, but he could def hang for a long while. in the same way AM could never beat ww or superman h2h but could last for a bit.

The Glads fight, BB did do well (and eventually resorted to his voice) but when he fought Hulk and went h2h, he got taken out in a single hit.

Here is the single hit fight.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsInhumans01Inhumans12.jpg.html
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsInhumans02.jpg.html
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsInhumans03.jpg.html
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsInhumans04.jpg.html
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsInhumans05.jpg.html

Black Bolt bolt was helpless...body was limp and Hulk overpowered the entirety of the team including Bolt.

Then we have this...

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd177/spion23-ccl/CoC%20II/blackbolt/vshulk1.jpg

Then there other fightx Hulk was about to crush the life from him until Bolt got desperate and used his voice. I think Aquaman would get his spleen snatched out by Hulk as well but this easily? Naah.

Originally posted by leonidas
eh? they grappled briefly in the first fight. the second one was the one where bolt used lightning to ko him i think. the third fight was this one i think (order could be backwards):

http://i.imgur.com/qV1sqcv.png

of course he's not beating hulk in h2h. but he's got as good or a better chance against hulk than AM has against ww or superman....

bolt is not top tier in strength, but he's close and his battles bear it out over and over again.

Hulk got up right after that punch and one shot koed Bolt.

Originally posted by leonidas
that one showing? of course it doesn't. but all his battles collectively do. least imo.
What showings?

He throws a few punches while his energy attacks do all the work.

I'd say even The Thing is Black Bolt's superior in the physical department.

You put him above New 52 Aquaman.

Just how strong do you think Black Bolt is? Stronger than Herc and Thor then?

you show that, i show this:

http://fdzeta.com/subir/images/UiN.jpg

http://fdzeta.com/subir/images/aNPEv.jpg

http://fdzeta.com/subir/images/nvhUP.jpg

he completely tanked hulk's shot, and stunned hulk with a single blow before going on to beat him using his voice.

you're acting like i said bolt is as strong as hulk. obviously he isn't. but he doesn't have to be because AM is a long way off of hulk too. bb also has the better durability feats imo. like i said, this would be close, but i'd still take bolt. 6/10 sounds about right to me but it is close enough that i could see someone saying 6/10 the other way. no one gets a large majority though.

Originally posted by krisblaze
What showings?

He throws a few punches while his energy attacks do all the work.

I'd say even The Thing is Black Bolt's superior in the physical department.

You put him above New 52 Aquaman.

Just how strong do you think Black Bolt is? Stronger than Herc and Thor then?

ben? i' say he's stronger than ben by decent amount, but ben has hung for prolonged periods against several of marvel's strongest so using ben as a gauge isn't exactly insulting. i'd say he's as strong as namor. that is somewhere between ben and herc. strong enough to last in h2h against most, but not able to win in straight h2h against the real strongmen.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk got up right after that punch and one shot koed Bolt.

wut?

and again, the question wasn't did hulk get up. if you think AM has the better h2h feats, show them and we'll compare how they've done against strongmen. i've got no problem at all comparing them. i have all of the 52 AM books and would love to see you find the feats you think would stack up against bolt's.

Originally posted by leonidas
wut?

and again, the question wasn't did hulk get up. if you think AM has the better h2h feats, show them and we'll compare how they've done against strongmen. i've got no problem at all comparing them. i have all of the 52 AM books and would love to see you find the feats you think would stack up against bolt's.

You posting that Black Bolt and Hulk showing is like me posting this...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111173561/4875981-3162692562-aquam.jpg

I can post Aquaman having a prolong fight against Diana as well or him hanging with and beating Hercules.

Originally posted by leonidas
ben? i' say he's stronger than ben by decent amount, but ben has hung for prolonged periods against several of marvel's strongest so using ben as a gauge isn't exactly insulting. i'd say he's as strong as namor. that is somewhere between ben and herc. strong enough to last in h2h against most, but not able to win in straight h2h against the real strongmen.

Okay then I think we wildly disagree on how strong Black Bolt is

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet


Aquaman is...Aquanman. He's not meant to be taken that seriously. Taken on who? When, in the last 15 minutes? D.C. is trying to make him something he's not and never was. I'm surprised to see you buy in so eagerly to this orange body shirt wearing wanna be. Let's get serious, if Superman isn't playing around with him, he's ****ing toast. Gladiator DOESN'T play around with Black Bolt and he more than holds his own.

How does trading punches with someone make you their physical equal.

You can't say just because Black Bolt can trade blows with Hulk so they share the same strength feats. Unless he stalemates Hulk in a grapple or Overpowers him he's not physically equal or superior to Hulk.

Sending someone flying doesn't make you someone's equal. Aquaman has sent Superman flying in a pretty famous scan (Say what you Wan about holding back but that doesn't change your durability), he's sent Martian Manhunter flying with a punch, as well as sent Despero and Hercules flying with a punch.

In actual strength feats I'm pretty sure Aquaman has the better ones.
In actual fights against characters it might be pretty evened out
In durability Aquaman has the better feats all around ironically
considering
Piercing Durability ironically Aquaman has a edge
Speed should be pretty even
The only edge BB has is in power output via his voice and that's not being used here

Originally posted by krisblaze
Okay then I think we wildly disagree on how strong Black Bolt is

fair enough.

Originally posted by carver9
You posting that Black Bolt and Hulk showing is like me posting this...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111173561/4875981-3162692562-aquam.jpg

I can post Aquaman having a prolong fight against Diana as well or him hanging with and beating Hercules.

no where close to the same because bolt and hulk were actually FIGHTING. superman wasn't even ready or looking for a fight. it was as much a sucker shot as anything. that's what you meant though when you said AM "took on" superman, wasn't it....? carv, that is utterly ridiculous, even for you. bb vs glads was at least a real fight, and bolt more than held his own physically. had superman decided to actually fight, he'd crush arthur. glads wasn't going to crush bolt, though he'd likely have beaten him had it stayed strictly h2h.

arthur's best showing in his series was against herc. he didn't do much against cheetah and the darkseid stuff, really? on combat showings bolt has at the LEAST as good showings, and i'd say better. in terms of pure strength showings, arthur has it. i think combat feats trump pure strength feats hence the reason i say bolt edges him out here.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
How does trading punches with someone make you their physical equal.

You can't say just because Black Bolt can trade blows with Hulk so they share the same strength feats. Unless he stalemates Hulk in a grapple or Overpowers him he's not physically equal or superior to Hulk.

Sending someone flying doesn't make you someone's equal. Aquaman has sent Superman flying in a pretty famous scan (Say what you Wan about holding back but that doesn't change your durability), he's sent Martian Manhunter flying with a punch, as well as sent Despero and Hercules flying with a punch.

In actual strength feats I'm pretty sure Aquaman has the better ones.
In actual fights against characters it might be pretty evened out
In durability Aquaman has the better feats all around ironically
considering
Piercing Durability ironically Aquaman has a edge
Speed should be pretty even
The only edge BB has is in power output via his voice and that's not being used here

This isn't about strength feats, this is about the two character's hand to hand prowess. Plus, show me one poster in this threat or any other who claimed Black Bolt was stronger than the Hulk.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111198060/4382145-black+bolt+is+op+2.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/KingChow/comicbookish/blackboltfightsronin1.jpg

http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/1/14740/335857-101158.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/iceman2456/Picture019.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/KingChow/comicbookish/blackboltfightsronin2.jpg

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111198060/4382145-black+bolt+is+op+2.png

Its the fact that you think being able to send Hulk flying > Aquaman. Sending Hulk flying is nice but that doesn't make you his equal.

If we go by statements Aquaman is suggested to be one of the strongest characters on DC Earth. How well does that BB scan hold up in present day? Where Hulk over the ages has gotten stronger.

http://imgur.com/wtATi9D
In the same comic Aquaman more or less was matching Wonder Woman and this is after she became GOW.

http://imgur.com/PmaR71A
During the Forever Evil storyline


If this is strictly New52 in limited but doing well against Wonder Woman h2h who is an actual fighter is pretty notable, Stalemating Cheshire while showing restraint is also pretty norable.

If I am not restricted New52 there's stuff with Amazo and Despero who are team wreckers that are notable.

ITT: Plenty of people that have barely read Aquaman comics, and refuse to take him seriously.

I honestly don't think he'd beat Blackbolt, but I don't have an unreasonable dislike for either character.

Originally posted by -Pr-
ITT: Plenty of people that have barely read Aquaman comics, and refuse to take him seriously.

I honestly don't think he'd beat Blackbolt, but I don't have an unreasonable dislike for either character.

Not really the point as far as I am concerned. AM is of a certain tier for the vast majority of his existence and so is BB. BB is simply in a higher tier. I don't hate Aquaman, but I don't have a ton of respect for him either.

I honestly like both characters alot, moreso Aquaman because of the way his mythology has been handled, BB I like in the way that he has alot of potential and areas that would be cool to see explored.

I honestly don't think BB (Comp) edges Aquaman (Comp) in anything other then Power Output via his voice though and that could probably be debated depending on who they go up against for damage output.

Originally posted by -Pr-
ITT: Plenty of people that have barely read Aquaman comics, and refuse to take him seriously.

I honestly don't think he'd beat Blackbolt, but I don't have an unreasonable dislike for either character.
Are you kidding? People are taking Arthur more seriously in this thread than I've literally ever seen him taken

I mean, people are legitimately comparing his strength to Superman and WW ffs

The funny thing with context though is,

http://s55.photobucket.com/user/SpunkySmurph/media/Marvel/Strength1.jpg.html

"My liege the weak point on his chest"

Originally posted by Cogito
Are you kidding? People are taking Arthur more seriously in this thread than I've literally ever seen him taken

I mean, people are legitimately comparing his strength to Superman and WW ffs

There comparing statements. To be honest though I don't think New52 Aquaman and N52 Wonder Woman are far off in strength or at least i can see it debated. Superman is another story.

I honestly don't put much fate in statements but I don't see how comparing Arthur to Diana or Clark is worse then cutting a scan in half to exclude the fact BB had to hit Hulk in a certain spot.

Originally posted by Cogito
Are you kidding? People are taking Arthur more seriously in this thread than I've literally ever seen him taken

I mean, people are legitimately comparing his strength to Superman and WW ffs

that's what i was thinking.....

Originally posted by Cogito
Are you kidding? People are taking Arthur more seriously in this thread than I've literally ever seen him taken

I mean, people are legitimately comparing his strength to Superman and WW ffs

Yes, far too seriously. Far, far, far too seriously.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
There comparing statements. To be honest though I don't think New52 Aquaman and N52 Wonder Woman are far off in strength or at least i can see it debated. Superman is another story.

I honestly don't put much fate in statements but I don't see how comparing Arthur to Diana or Clark is worse then cutting a scan in half to exclude the fact BB had to hit Hulk in a certain spot.

I didn't cut a scan in half, that's how it appeared on the site I linked from. Besides, the print hasn't changed.

The point is BB has always been a true herald. Not an elite herald, but a true herald with an elite attack. Aquaman? No where close.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I didn't cut a scan in half.

My mistake then you convienently posted a scan that had missing information.

BB has struggled against characters like The Thing and Namor which isn't a bad thing but I think suggesting he's a pier with Hulk in regards to h2h is a bit much when he doesn't even stay strictly h2h when facing Hulk.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I didn't cut a scan in half, that's how it appeared on the site I linked from. Besides, the print hasn't changed.

The point is BB has always been a true herald. Not an elite herald, but a true herald with an elite attack. Aquaman? No where close.

Aquaman has actually went against legit Herald team busters and done well and this is pure h2h, can BB say the same?

Aquaman does not really hurt herald-busters except to poke them with his trident (e.g. Darkseid's eye).

And don't bother pulling out a scan that contradicts what I just said. If you do, I'll start pulling out scans of a batkick hurting heralds. Everyone gets a little something something once in a while to make them seem useful.

Originally posted by Cogito
Aquaman does not really hurt herald-busters except to poke them with his trident (e.g. Darkseid's eye).

And don't bother pulling out a scan that contradicts what I just said. If you do, I'll start pulling out scans of a batkick hurting heralds. Everyone gets a little something something once in a while to make them seem useful.

Lol. Makes a statement then says don't bother proving me wrong cause I won't accept it.

A bit biast don't you think..

Difference is in Batman's title he generally tends to struggle against street characters, even in the JL from time to time he does as well. Sure there's a few popular scans from time to time again but consistency doesn't favor Batman.

Whereas New52 Aquaman has consistently been suggested as a pier to New52 Diana and actually has physical strength showings above Batman. Heck Diana doesn't have much strength showings in the New52 the only one I can think of is the ship one from TOA and I'd put the Trench feat above that. Hell even Pre-Flashpoint he has alot of insane showings moreso then New52 in a solo or team setting. Whereas alot of these team showings Batman is convienently missing for a reason.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Aquaman has actually went against legit Herald team busters and done well and this is pure h2h, can BB say the same?

Not he hasn't, not without his trident. Namor on the other hand did some damage to Thanos. You are rooting for him at this point.

Originally posted by Cogito
Are you kidding? People are taking Arthur more seriously in this thread than I've literally ever seen him taken

I mean, people are legitimately comparing his strength to Superman and WW ffs

Originally posted by leonidas
that's what i was thinking.....

I was mostly speaking about BAV and STILT being tools (among others), but it goes the other way too, rating him more highly than he deserves.

He's (imo) around WW level since the reboot, if not a tiny bit below it.

I'd like to see one Aquaman thread where people could actually debate the character, not act like retards trying to be cool and edgy.

Originally posted by Cogito
Aquaman does not really hurt herald-busters except to poke them with his trident (e.g. Darkseid's eye).

And don't bother pulling out a scan that contradicts what I just said. If you do, I'll start pulling out scans of a batkick hurting heralds. Everyone gets a little something something once in a while to make them seem useful.
What is a "herald-buster" ?

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Lol. Makes a statement then says don't bother proving me wrong cause I won't accept it.

A bit biast don't you think..

Difference is in Batman's title he generally tends to struggle against street characters, even in the JL from time to time he does as well. Sure there's a few popular scans from time to time again but consistency doesn't favor Batman.

Whereas New52 Aquaman has consistently been suggested as a pier to New52 Diana and actually has physical strength showings above Batman. Heck Diana doesn't have much strength showings in the New52 the only one I can think of is the ship one from TOA and I'd put the Trench feat above that. Hell even Pre-Flashpoint he has alot of insane showings moreso then New52 in a solo or team setting. Whereas alot of these team showings Batman is convienently missing for a reason.

I'm really not sure what you are trying to get at. AM in no way busts herald busters and the very notion is beyond ridiculous. BB >> AM, always has. AM would not embarrass himself, but he'd come up short.

Originally posted by krisblaze
What is a "herald-buster" ?

Think he meant Herald or characters who wreck teams of Heralds but that's an interesting term

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I'm really not sure what you are trying to get at. AM in no way busts herald busters and the very notion is beyond ridiculous. BB >> AM, always has. AM would not embarrass himself, but he'd come up short.

That's a nice statement but you have yet to prove it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I was mostly speaking about BAV and STILT being tools (among others), but it goes the other way too, rating him more highly than he deserves.

He's (imo) around WW level since the reboot, if not a tiny bit below it.

I'd like to see one Aquaman thread where people could actually debate the character, not act like retards trying to be cool and edgy.

"Hey, this is not the place for insults and it will not be tolerate by anyone except for me, all high and might liaison to the admin." Give me a freaking break, PR. You only get pissy when you feel the need to protect D.C., characters.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Lol. Makes a statement then says don't bother proving me wrong cause I won't accept it.

A bit biast don't you think..

Difference is in Batman's title he generally tends to struggle against street characters, even in the JL from time to time he does as well. Sure there's a few popular scans from time to time again but consistency doesn't favor Batman.

Whereas New52 Aquaman has consistently been suggested as a pier to New52 Diana and actually has physical strength showings above Batman. Heck Diana doesn't have much strength showings in the New52 the only one I can think of is the ship one from TOA and I'd put the Trench feat above that. Hell even Pre-Flashpoint he has alot of insane showings moreso then New52 in a solo or team setting. Whereas alot of these team showings Batman is convienently missing for a reason.

Aquaman is one of my favorite characters, so don't color me biased against him.

I just know where he stands in the physcial prowess hierarchy. And it's way below WW, always has been, and always will be. Statements that put them in a group amongst the most powerful on Earth do not mean that Aquaman can hang with WW in the strength department.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I was mostly speaking about BAV and STILT being tools (among others), but it goes the other way too, rating him more highly than he deserves.

He's (imo) around WW level since the reboot, if not a tiny bit below it.

I'd like to see one Aquaman thread where people could actually debate the character, not act like retards trying to be cool and edgy.

To be honest there's probably categories where AM edges her in the New52. Like Piercing Durability and Lifting Strength and then the ones where she edges him would probably be primarily Speed and h2h.

Pre52 Diana beats him in lifting strength though

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
That's a nice statement but you have yet to prove it.

It's proven by their two histories. You want me to post their entire histories? How about you admit AM hasn't does shit to herald busters outside of his plot device Trident.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
To be honest there's probably categories where AM edges her in the New52. Like Piercing Durability and Lifting Strength and then the ones where she edges him would probably be primarily Speed and h2h.

Pre52 Diana beats him in lifting strength though

And this thread is about hand to hand. I can't believe there are AM fanboys, what is the world coming to?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112928/4275766-csffc14.jpg

Originally posted by Cogito
Aquaman is one of my favorite characters, so don't color me biased against him.

I just know where he stands in the physcial prowess hierarchy. And it's way below WW, always has been, and always will be. Statements that put them in a group amongst the most powerful on Earth do not mean that Aquaman can hang with WW in the strength department.

Its one thing to say your a fan of a character and then show you don't know much about him. Consistently in the New52 he's been a pier to Diana pretty much ever since Flashpoint.

Hell even Pre-Flashpoint he had pretty insane feats that would discount your notion whether it be a short scuffle with Lobo, Titus, Amazo, beating on the JL, or Despero. Overpowering an all-Knowing which one of those things beat up Powergirl, or even his fights in stuff like Panic in the Sky by statement or Power scaling feats like in the 80s suicide squad run.

I'm still waiting for stuff on BB though.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Its one thing to say your a fan of a character and then show you don't know much about him. Consistently in the New52 he's been a pier to Diana pretty much ever since Flashpoint.

Hell even Pre-Flashpoint he had pretty insane feats that would discount your notion whether it be a short scuffle with Lobo, Titus, Amazo, beating on the JL, or Despero. Overpowering an all-Knowing which one of those things beat up Powergirl, or even his fights in stuff like Panic in the Sky by statement or Power scaling feats like in the 80s suicide squad run.

I'm still waiting for stuff on BB though.

I'm waiting for you to comment on the posts of him I've already posted, other than the lame little dig you attempted regarding the Hulk scan. Gladiator would have beaten the **** out of AM.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
It's proven by their two histories. You want me to post their entire histories? How about you admit AM hasn't does shit to herald busters outside of his plot device Trident.

Would you like me to post him beating up Heralds and team busters just h2h? His Trident didn't really become a consistent item for him until Johns, Parker came on to the title and stressed the idea that he really doesn't need it.

I'd say BB is more dependent on his voice or AOE attacks when he's fighting Heralds then Aquaman is with his trident.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I'm waiting for you to comment on the posts of him I've already posted, other than the lame little dig you attempted regarding the Hulk scan. Gladiator would have beaten the **** out of AM.

The Gladiator that was fighting BB wouldn't have...

BB hit Hulk once and started off with an AOE attack and still had to hit a weakpoint which was given in the full scan, but sure less pretend only half the scan exist and take the statement at full value and disregard any other statements we dislike makes you look ignorant mate,

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Would you like me to post him beating up Heralds and team busters just h2h? His Trident didn't really become a consistent item for him until Johns, Parker came on to the title and stressed the idea that he really doesn't need it.

I'd say BB is more dependent on his voice or AOE attacks when he's fighting Heralds then Aquaman is with his trident.

You can post whatever you want.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
The Gladiator that was fighting BB wouldn't have...

BB hit Hulk once and started off with an AOE attack and still had to hit a weakpoint.

Sorry, there's only one Gladiator with a Mohawk in Marvel.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
The Gladiator that was fighting BB wouldn't have..

That's got to be one of the lamest excuses I've heard in a long while. With regard to the weak point, are you suggesting BB doesn't have the power to knock back heralds including Hulk unless he is hitting a weak point? Please say you are. He's knocked back Namor, Hulk, Gladiator, Thor, Ikaris, Thing, etc. He didn't need a weak point to send them flying. What a pathetic attempt by you to discredit.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
"Hey, this is not the place for insults and it will not be tolerate by anyone except for me, all high and might liaison to the admin." Give me a freaking break, PR. You only get pissy when you feel the need to protect D.C., characters.

Really, the guy who regularly ignores mods, then reports people for doing the same thing he does, is going to lecture me about behaviour?

By all means, continue. It's not my fault you have a rampant hate for DC.

And the funny this, I most likely like Marvel more than you do, to boot.

Well here's my New52 post I'll go on the fact that you suggest Aquaman was never at a certain level.

Strength: Grappling with Frankenstein (Same guy who physically restrained Shazam who had to resort to AOE go break out)

http://imgur.com/QbYi4Im



Takes the Dead King's scepter attack (Last time the DK used this it destroyed Atlantis as a continent)

http://imgur.com/a/Opunl


Speed Blitzes Ocean Master
http://imgur.com/6tHTZp1

Aquaman vs Hercules (New52 Shazam us stated to have the strength of Hercules)

http://imgur.com/a/sZXPv

Originally posted by -Pr-
Really, the guy who regularly ignores mods, then reports people for doing the same thing he does, is going to lecture me about behaviour?

By all means, continue. It's not my fault you have a rampant hate for DC.

And the funny this, I most likely like Marvel more than you do, to boot.

But you are a pseudo mod attacking posters and dry snitching because you don't like their opinions. Congrats to that. And it's behavior, not behaviour.

What is a herald-buster?

Is this one of those meaningless buzzwords that have drifted over here from comicvine and cbr? like "elite", "teamwrecker", etc

Originally posted by -Pr-
Really, the guy who regularly ignores mods, then reports people for doing the same thing he does, is going to lecture me about behaviour?

By all means, continue. It's not my fault you have a rampant hate for DC.

And the funny this, I most likely like Marvel more than you do, to boot.
You might like Marvel, but you HATE Abhi.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Well here's my New52 post I'll go on the fact that you suggest Aquaman was never at a certain level.

Strength: Grappling with Frankenstein (Same guy who physically restrained Shazam who had to resort to AOE go break out)

http://imgur.com/QbYi4Im



Takes the Dead King's scepter attack (Last time the DK used this it destroyed Atlantis as a continent)

http://imgur.com/a/Opunl


Speed Blitzes Ocean Master
http://imgur.com/6tHTZp1

Aquaman vs Hercules (New52 Shazam us stated to have the strength of Hercules)

http://imgur.com/a/sZXPv

Grappling? A one panel shot of them locking horns? WTF....

Where is the success against a herald buster and which one of these heralds has he beaten or fought even? Or maybe I'll say BB would have beaten that Ocean Master, Hercules and Frank like you did.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
That's got to be one of the lamest excuses I've heard in a long while. With regard to the weak point, are you suggesting BB doesn't have the power to knock back heralds including Hulk unless he is hitting a weak point? Please say you are. He's knocked back Namor, Hulk, Gladiator, Thor, Ikaris, Thing, etc. He didn't need a weak point to send them flying. What a pathetic attempt by you to discredit.

I wasn't discrediting him it's was more of a joke if anything.

Regardless there's Despero, Amazo, Piscator, Titus, Martian Manhunter, off the tip of my head

Pre-Flashpoint Aquaman

Took a sustained blast that oneshotted Orion
Took a Angel scream that was suggested to be able to destroy matter itself and was stated to have destroyed something city size

Beat up Despero, Did well against the JL and Amazo

I'm more curious about this tier your suggesting Aquaman is in rather then anything.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Grappling? A one panel shot of them locking horns? WTF....

Where is the success against a herald buster and which one of these heralds has he beaten or fought even? Or maybe I'll say BB would have beaten that Ocean Master, Hercules and Frank like you did.

Shazam is as strong as Hercules and visa versa so there's that.

Ocean Master is up for question I brought him up because of speed but in regards it's funny because Ocean Master outside of Aquaman has visited Superman Pre-Flashpoint and didn't to bad on two different encounters they had.
Frankenstein has done well against Black Adam, like I mentioned restrained Shazam, and did well against Omac who has busted characters like Powergirl and Steel together

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
But you are a pseudo mod attacking posters and dry snitching because you don't like their opinions. Congrats to that. And it's behavior, not behaviour.

It either Behavior is just the American way to spell it,

I wanted to point out some interesting stuff though N52 Wonder Woman has stated herself that it hurts punching Superman, N52 Lobo hurt his hand punching Superman. Aquaman in TOA showed no sign of pain and continued to use the same hand to punch in the story.

In regards to who Aquaman has fought in his history

Aquaman and JLD vs Amazo

http://imgur.com/a/Fz5SZ

Aquaman vs Despero

http://imgur.com/a/vUhDg


Aquaman vs Justice League

http://imgur.com/a/3AP0j

There's characters like Piscator and mentions like Panic in the sky that's notable to

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I wanted to point out some interesting stuff though N52 Wonder Woman has stated herself that it hurts punching Superman, N52 Lobo hurt his hand punching Superman. Aquaman in TOA showed no sign of pain and continued to use the same hand to punch in the story.

In regards to who Aquaman has fought in his history

Aquaman and JLD vs Amazo

http://imgur.com/a/Fz5SZ

Aquaman vs Despero

http://imgur.com/a/vUhDg


Aquaman vs Justice League

http://imgur.com/a/3AP0j

There's characters like Piscator and mentions like Panic in the sky that's notable to

You're showing "feats" that aren't feats, buddy

Punching Despero like that isn't a feat?

Better feat than socking 70s Hulk.

Originally posted by Cogito
You're showing "feats" that aren't feats, buddy

Hurting Amazo with a Haymayker isn't a feat? Especially when in the very same scans he's suggested to still have all of the Leagues power?

Sending Despero flying isn't a feat? Or the fact it had to resort to telepathy like Martian Manhunter said if would if Despero couldn't subdue Aquaman physically.

If there's something personal you want I'm ears.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
But you are a pseudo mod attacking posters and dry snitching because you don't like their opinions. Congrats to that. And it's behavior, not behaviour.

You know what the word "pseudo" means, right?

And no, opinions has nothing to do with it. But I'm sure that's the shield you hide behind so you can play the victim of the big, mean mod.

Actually where I'm from it's behaviour.

Originally posted by krisblaze
What is a herald-buster?

Is this one of those meaningless buzzwords that have drifted over here from comicvine and cbr? like "elite", "teamwrecker", etc


You might like Marvel, but you HATE Abhi.

Aye, but don't forget: I also protect him against all the mean people that are out to get him.

For some reason, that I'm sure makes total sense.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I wanted to point out some interesting stuff though N52 Wonder Woman has stated herself that it hurts punching Superman, N52 Lobo hurt his hand punching Superman. Aquaman in TOA showed no sign of pain and continued to use the same hand to punch in the story.

In regards to who Aquaman has fought in his history

Aquaman and JLD vs Amazo

http://imgur.com/a/Fz5SZ

Aquaman vs Despero

http://imgur.com/a/vUhDg


Aquaman vs Justice League

http://imgur.com/a/3AP0j

There's characters like Piscator and mentions like Panic in the sky that's notable to

yeah...wtf? those aren't feats. amazo it was said could be ko'd by a rotting log in the narration. lol he smacked despero out of the water. that's not any better than getting the better of glads in straight h2h. grappled frank for one panel? the hell? bb grappled hulk and stunned him with a single blow after tanking hulk's first hit. i'm willing to have my mind changed, but thise 'feats' don't come close. you are being blatantly disingenuous at this point by nay-saying bb's feats and posting those to show superiority. i'd say those 'feats' actually HURT your case more than they helped it tbh. i mean when he saw diana in that last set of scans she smacked him away like he was a flea.... the only good feat was against herc and he was getting slapped around until he was 'drowned'. i hope for arthur's sake you have more than that.

All I know is Aquaman shanked Despero with some rebar. Which unless it was a piece of magic rebar...makes very little sense. Perhaps Despero is weakened by water? Or rebar? Or rebar soaked in water?

Originally posted by Surtur
All I know is Aquaman shanked Despero with some rebar. Which unless it was a piece of magic rebar...makes very little sense. Perhaps Despero is weakened by water? Or rebar? Or rebar soaked in water?

Or his piercing durability isn't s of as his blunt for durability which would make more sense

That in itself makes no sense though. If you can withstand a punch from a Superman level being Aquaman shouldn't be able to shank you.

I totally acknowledge some characters do have this weird piercing weakness, I'm just saying I often find it silly.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah...wtf? those aren't feats. amazo it was said could be ko'd by a rotting log in the narration. lol he smacked despero out of the water. that's not any better than getting the better of glads in straight h2h. grappled frank for one panel? the hell? bb grappled hulk and stunned him with a single blow after tanking hulk's first hit. i'm willing to have my mind changed, but thise 'feats' don't come close. you are being blatantly disingenuous at this point by nay-saying bb's feats and posting those to show superiority. i'd say those 'feats' actually HURT your case more than they helped it tbh. i mean when he saw diana in that last set of scans she smacked him away like he was a flea.... the only good feat was against herc and he was getting slapped around until he was 'drowned'. i hope for arthur's sake you have more than that.
Where are you getting that it was said he could be kod by a Rotting log from?
"Could be toppled like rotting timber" is an illustration of how he fell. It's a literary device a simile. Doesn't change the fact he had all the Leagues power and by Amazo's own words that Aquaman hurt him with a punch, which is why I brought it up because people here were saying Aquaman can't hurt "herald busters" w/o his trident,


In regards to the Hercules fight context favors Aquaman. Aquaman was trying to calm down Hercules even pitying him which factored in their fight, when Aquaman regained his strength by being submerged he cutloose and beat up Hercules

Aquaman being sent flying by Wonder Woman isn't a bad showing considering she's also sent Hal and Superman flying with a strike on two different occasions, hell in the same storyline Aquaman sent Superman flying with a punch. In regards to Diana's punching

http://imgur.com/a/fFyns

This Diana is stronger then she was when she hit Aquaman in TOA but ironically this same Diana fought Aquaman in Aquaman Annual #2 and didn't send him flying.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I wanted to point out some interesting stuff though N52 Wonder Woman has stated herself that it hurts punching Superman, N52 Lobo hurt his hand punching Superman. Aquaman in TOA showed no sign of pain and continued to use the same hand to punch in the story.

In regards to who Aquaman has fought in his history

Aquaman and JLD vs Amazo

http://imgur.com/a/Fz5SZ

Aquaman vs Despero

http://imgur.com/a/vUhDg


Aquaman vs Justice League

http://imgur.com/a/3AP0j

There's characters like Piscator and mentions like Panic in the sky that's notable to



How is any of this the least bit impressive? Did you actually look and rend these scans? Against AMAZO, who was not operating at herald buster levels this arc, the dialogue in the scan YOU posted reads "The bewildered android could be toppled like timber by the slightest of blows." It's like the writer is explaining exactly why AM ax handle blow hurt him. This is impressive?

He threw a piece of steel through Despero from the blind side, big deal. Where is the hand to hand you promised?

I have no idea what you think you are showing us in the 3rd scan. Non of this even approaches the scansame of BB trading actual blows with Gladiator. Also, I like how you are arguing the current AM but had to dig through scans from different eras to find something and failed at that.

Originally posted by Surtur
That in itself makes no sense though. If you can withstand a punch from a Superman level being Aquaman shouldn't be able to shank you.

I totally acknowledge some characters do have this weird piercing weakness, I'm just saying I often find it silly.

In a minor way I can kind of make sense of it comparing being hit by a blunt instrument to being hit by something sharp in nature.

Mallet vs Sword

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
How is any of this the least bit impressive? Did you actually look and rend these scans? Against AMAZO, who was not operating at herald buster levels this arc, the dialogue in the scan YOU posted reads "The bewildered android could be toppled like timber by the slightest of blows." It's like the writer is explaining exactly why AM ax handle blow hurt him. This is impressive?

He threw a piece of steel through Despero from the blind side, big deal. Where is the hand to hand you promised?

I have no idea what you think you are showing us in the 3rd scan. Non of this even approaches the scansame of BB trading actual blows with Gladiator. Also, I like how you are arguing the current AM but had to dig through scans from different eras to find something and failed at that.

He sent Despero flying through a ship and then sent him back on land with a hit...

Did you read the Amazo fight arc? Same character took down MMH, Commander Steel and others in the arc, not to mention it's mentioned that he has the abilities of the original android that fought the league.


I'm aware you have no idea though

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
In a minor way I can kind of make sense of it comparing being hit by a blunt instrument to being hit by something sharp in nature.

Mallet vs Sword

For me I think a more appropriate example would be like a building sized mallet vs a regular sized sword.

Since yeah that is how much of a difference there is in strength between Aquaman and Class 100's like Superman or Captain Marvel in the PreDCnu.

Originally posted by Surtur
All I know is Aquaman shanked Despero with some rebar. Which unless it was a piece of magic rebar...makes very little sense. Perhaps Despero is weakened by water? Or rebar? Or rebar soaked in water?


Who knows? That "showing" is not exactly changing hearts and minds. Did you see how he discounted all the BB scans at once? The funny part is he said "that" Gladiator, but the scans cover more than one arc.

Aquaman vs Wonder Woman

http://imgur.com/a/88fW0

Aquaman vs Olympian

http://imgur.com/a/eEGlR

Aquaman vs Triton

http://imgur.com/a/BQCGr

Originally posted by Surtur
For me I think a more appropriate example would be like a building sized mallet vs a regular sized sword.

Since yeah that is how much of a difference there is in strength between Aquaman and Class 100's like Superman or Captain Marvel in the PreDCnu.

I think it varies between writer the only character I see as always on the top of the heralds when it comes to strength is Superman

I'd put N52 Aquaman over N52 Shazam
Pre52 Shazam obviously above Aquaman in strength showings. But the ironic thing is were missing showings from BB the difference is were getting who he's hit rather then where he stands in strength

The reason I posted the Amazo and Despero showings is because it was suggested Aquaman can't physically hurt characters like that hand to hand

I posted the JL instance because it shows Aquaman staying conscious from a hit from Pre-Flashpoint Diana who is stronger then Bolt and Aquaman not being able to react in time

I wanna say aquaman but BB throws some mean hands

I always said, even from his first posts, that Ecstatic Grace was one to look out for.

Who did you bed? Pr? Mungi? Comicfan, maybe?

It's clear as a day Ecsta is your offspring.

Spoiler alert: Ecstatic Grace is the name I give my 'O' face.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
In a minor way I can kind of make sense of it comparing being hit by a blunt instrument to being hit by something sharp in nature.

Mallet vs Sword

The difference there is merely pressure.

If you swing a mallet and a sword with the same amount of force, the sword is going to yield a lot more pressure because pressure is force distributed over area.

Thus the smaller the area, the more pressure.

You have to swing a mallet much, much, much harder to make up for the fact that it has a greater surface striking area.

So yeah I would say I agree with Surtur's revised example.

Originally posted by Surtur
For me I think a more appropriate example would be like a building sized mallet vs a regular sized sword.

Since yeah that is how much of a difference there is in strength between Aquaman and Class 100's like Superman or Captain Marvel in the PreDCnu.



And the gap between BB and elite Marvel heralds is much smaller proven over the coarse of his ENTIRE history, not the most recent 15 minutes.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
The difference there is merely pressure.

If you swing a mallet and a sword with the same amount of force, the sword is going to yield a lot more pressure because pressure is force distributed over area.

Thus the smaller the area, the more pressure.

You have to swing a mallet much, much, much harder to make up for the fact that it has a greater surface striking area.

So yeah I would say I agree with Surtur's revised example.

That's true, but the showing still doesn't make sense. As a top tier herald, the striking surface (Despero) would be akin to a foot or two of Titanium. It still should not have penetrated.

Yes a rebar should definitely not have pierced Despero.

Some rusty iron/steel is not more durable than Despero, or you wouldn't think. It should have bent.

Aquaman may have used a Pre-Crisis rebar though.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
That's true, but the showing still doesn't make sense. As a top tier herald, the striking surface (Despero) would be akin to a foot or two of Titanium. It still should not have penetrated.

Keep in mind in comics characters who can survive city destroying blast get hurt when a car is thrown at them at times.

Striking: Sends Ultraman flying

https://imgur.com/a/6cWZ7

Well yeah those are bad feats.

Which the Despero showing is; for Despero.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
The difference there is merely pressure.

If you swing a mallet and a sword with the same amount of force, the sword is going to yield a lot more pressure because pressure is force distributed over area.

Thus the smaller the area, the more pressure.

You have to swing a mallet much, much, much harder to make up for the fact that it has a greater surface striking area.

So yeah I would say I agree with Surtur's revised example.

The pressure point you brought up is probably the best way to word it, Blunt force tends to move someone though being stabbed doesnt. Compare someone punching you to being stabbed

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Well yeah those are bad feats.

Which the Despero showing is; for Despero.

I honestly don't think it is, unless he has Piercing Durability feats to contradict it.

Well we know Despero is more durable than a cheap scrap of steel so its seems like its a pretty bad feat to me.

Originally posted by Surtur
For me I think a more appropriate example would be like a building sized mallet vs a regular sized sword.

Since yeah that is how much of a difference there is in strength between Aquaman and Class 100's like Superman or Captain Marvel in the PreDCnu.


Aquaman has feats though to put him above Powergirl, it generally wasn't to consistent I'd admit Pre-Flashpoint but I wouldn't count him out. He's definitely class 100 throughout pretty much any age probably Golden being the exception


There's alot of stuff in the Detroit Era that Aquaman look pretty good
There was the fight against the guy who absorbed Superman's powers, Aquaman did pretty well until he got his powers absorbed.
There's his sparring against Martian Manhunter
There's the statment in Panic in the Sky

To be honest I've yet to complete my reading on Silver Age - Modern Age so I'd assume there's more stuff.

I agree Superman and Shazam Pre-Flashpoint are leagues ahead of Pre-Flashpoint Aquaman but they are against BB to so that serves not much of a point here, look at all of their individual strength feats and BB is the one lacking cause he doesn't have any personal feats atleast none mentioned here.

And I've read several Black Bolt comics.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Well we know Despero is more durable than a cheap scrap of steel so its seems like its a pretty bad feat to me.
I don't think writers care much about logic behind these kind of stuff, I think it was more Johns suggesting Aquaman can do that to Despero rather then the material can

I wanted to make an ending statement, that though I think BB can fight characters like Thor and Hulk hand to hand I don't think he'd win a match if he stuck to pure physicals and they did as well. I generally don't agree with the Marvel Handbook but I do think BB is in the same weight class as characters like Namor and The Thing.

I think Aquaman just for some reason is being disregarded, even Pre-Flashpoint he's been stated a couple times and shown to have duked it out with characters who are apparently in the same class as Superman and Aquaman has done pretty well.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244877/5043945-3995081-4164908542-pqaaa.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139093/2998106-aquamanvsslig3.jpg

Panic in the Sky
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244877/5043949-4693674-screenshot_2015-07-13-16-34-31-1.jpg

He's done pretty well against characters who have had Superman's power, whether it be Amazo or others.
http://imgur.com/a/Fz5SZ

http://imgur.com/EGC65Pz?r
Until he gets his powers absorbed
http://i.imgur.com/Q4qKF8K.jpg

Hell one of his main rogues Ocean Master has taken a punch from Superman remained conscious, Strong enough to strain Superman in a choke hold, as well as took a punch from Wonder Woman and remained conscious. Prelude to Obsidian Age. Ocean Master was holding back both Superman and Wonder Woman with Water and Aquaman fights this guy consistently.

Another rogue Slig is stated by the writer to be in the same weight class as Superman and Aquaman has beaten Slig up physically in his own title.

He's shortly traded blows with Superboy and Lobo in his own title, has overpowered an All-Knowing which one of these things beat up Powergirl, as well as the fact King Shark another Aquaman villain consistently gives Superboy trouble in regards to physicals. I don't get comparisons of Batman hurting a herald compared to when Aquaman does it... given that I see Aquaman in the Herald class based on several showings in his own book and outside it.


Aquaman took hits from Titus who was a legit Herald buster none of the League could really fight him one on one and last to long.
He's generally traded blows with Martian Manhunter who Pre-Flashpoint didn't have to amp himself to fight other heralds.

I honestly don't get the low regard to Aquaman though.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I wanted to make an ending statement, that though I think BB can fight characters like Thor and Hulk hand to hand I don't think he'd win a match if he stuck to pure physicals and they did as well. I generally don't agree with the Marvel Handbook but I do think BB is in the same weight class as characters like Namor and The Thing.

I think Aquaman just for some reason is being disregarded, even Pre-Flashpoint he's been stated a couple times and shown to have duked it out with characters who are apparently in the same class as Superman and Aquaman has done pretty well.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244877/5043945-3995081-4164908542-pqaaa.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139093/2998106-aquamanvsslig3.jpg

Panic in the Sky
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244877/5043949-4693674-screenshot_2015-07-13-16-34-31-1.jpg

He's done pretty well against characters who have had Superman's power, whether it be Amazo or others.
http://imgur.com/a/Fz5SZ

http://imgur.com/EGC65Pz?r
Until he gets his powers absorbed
http://i.imgur.com/Q4qKF8K.jpg

Hell one of his main rogues Ocean Master has taken a punch from Superman remained conscious, Strong enough to strain Superman in a choke hold, as well as took a punch from Wonder Woman and remained conscious. Prelude to Obsidian Age. Ocean Master was holding back both Superman and Wonder Woman with Water and Aquaman fights this guy consistently.

Another rogue Slig is stated by the writer to be in the same weight class as Superman and Aquaman has beaten Slig up physically in his own title.

He's shortly traded blows with Superboy and Lobo in his own title, has overpowered an All-Knowing which one of these things beat up Powergirl, as well as the fact King Shark another Aquaman villain consistently gives Superboy trouble in regards to physicals. I don't get comparisons of Batman hurting a herald compared to when Aquaman does it... given that I see Aquaman in the Herald class based on several showings in his own book and outside it.


Aquaman took hits from Titus who was a legit Herald buster none of the League could really fight him one on one and last to long.
He's generally traded blows with Martian Manhunter who Pre-Flashpoint didn't have to amp himself to fight other heralds.

I honestly don't get the low regard to Aquaman though.

It's not low regard, it's that he's simply not in the mid to upper herald tier and Black Bolt is. For 95% of his career, AM has been a meta or a prime meta, but not a herald. I still don't think he's there because I don't put his strength and durability at Wonderman level. Anyone reading your takes objectively can see you are in the tank for Aquaman. You've said several times you think he is underrated and you've gone to great lengths to try to convince others. Most of the scans you provided as evidence are wishful thinking and largely work against your stance. For instance, you tried to make the argument that AM went toe to with a herald buster in AMAZO, yet the scan showed he was easily KOed and draped over AMAZO's shoulder before recovering in a pretty lame PIS laced scene. That showing in no way supports the argument that AM can compete at the herald level. By comparison, I didn't have to explain anything about the Black Bolt showings I posted because they speak for themselves and he wasn't getting knocked out. Like I said, AM would not embarrass himself against Black Bolt in hand to hand, but there is nothing to suggest he would win. BB'so hand to hand showings against heralds are consistent. He showed to be Thor's equal in their hand to hand bout and lost due to Thor exploiting a weakness, a charged Mjolnir blow to his electron antenna.

Let me end by emphasizing that losing to BB in hand to hand is no negative reflection on AM, but still, you need to pump the breaks a little.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I wanted to make an ending statement, that though I think BB can fight characters like Thor and Hulk hand to hand I don't think he'd win a match if he stuck to pure physicals and they did as well. I generally don't agree with the Marvel Handbook but I do think BB is in the same weight class as characters like Namor and The Thing.

I think Aquaman just for some reason is being disregarded, even Pre-Flashpoint he's been stated a couple times and shown to have duked it out with characters who are apparently in the same class as Superman and Aquaman has done pretty well.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244877/5043945-3995081-4164908542-pqaaa.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139093/2998106-aquamanvsslig3.jpg

Panic in the Sky
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244877/5043949-4693674-screenshot_2015-07-13-16-34-31-1.jpg

He's done pretty well against characters who have had Superman's power, whether it be Amazo or others.
http://imgur.com/a/Fz5SZ

http://imgur.com/EGC65Pz?r
Until he gets his powers absorbed
http://i.imgur.com/Q4qKF8K.jpg

Hell one of his main rogues Ocean Master has taken a punch from Superman remained conscious, Strong enough to strain Superman in a choke hold, as well as took a punch from Wonder Woman and remained conscious. Prelude to Obsidian Age. Ocean Master was holding back both Superman and Wonder Woman with Water and Aquaman fights this guy consistently.

Another rogue Slig is stated by the writer to be in the same weight class as Superman and Aquaman has beaten Slig up physically in his own title.

He's shortly traded blows with Superboy and Lobo in his own title, has overpowered an All-Knowing which one of these things beat up Powergirl, as well as the fact King Shark another Aquaman villain consistently gives Superboy trouble in regards to physicals. I don't get comparisons of Batman hurting a herald compared to when Aquaman does it... given that I see Aquaman in the Herald class based on several showings in his own book and outside it.


Aquaman took hits from Titus who was a legit Herald buster none of the League could really fight him one on one and last to long.
He's generally traded blows with Martian Manhunter who Pre-Flashpoint didn't have to amp himself to fight other heralds.

I honestly don't get the low regard to Aquaman though.

Wait, your main argument is who he took hits from? Dude, he has PLENTY of company in that vein! So is Captain America some how a herald because he took hits from Thanos and Count Nefaria? You can't derive much from that but to say he is durable in general. If Thanos punched Thing, I doubt Thing would DIE and likely would go flying but not be KOed.

Secondly, your point about his rogues should be taken with a grain of salt. PLENTY characters have rogues who are a tier higher. Mangog is a Thor Rogue but that doesn't mean Thor is in Mangog's power tier. Oh, and Clayface is a full to levels higher than Batman. Rhino is at least a level above Spiderman. So no, the fact that Ocean Master is tough and a AM rogue doesn't mean AM is on OM'S level.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Keep in mind in comics characters who can survive city destroying blast get hurt when a car is thrown at them at times.

Striking: Sends Ultraman flying

https://imgur.com/a/6cWZ7

By throwing a CAR at him. Again, how does that elevate AM? Spiderman or Luke Cage's could have done the same thing.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Aquaman vs Wonder Woman

http://imgur.com/a/88fW0

Aquaman vs Olympian

http://imgur.com/a/eEGlR

Aquaman vs Triton

http://imgur.com/a/BQCGr


facepalm

These showings are horrible. Not even close to supporting your point. You just posted a pic of him ESCAPING the grip of Triton in which Triton called him an eel, and that's supposed to be Aquaman going to to toe with him? And again with the magical Trident attack, not to mention the water hand? My dude, if this was a chess match, you should be asking for a draw.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
By throwing a CAR at him. Again, how does that elevate AM? Spiderman or Luke Cage's could have done the same thing.

With enough force to push Ultraman back?

It's funny cause you've yet to post feats of strength for Black Bolt and have stuck with who he's hit and taken hits from. According to your logic those are unimpressive cause Captain America has taken hits from Heralds.. Yet Cap doesn't have feats like you know lifting stuff that weighs several thousand Tons or exceeds it and Aquaman does. Still waiting to see those for BB

Sigh.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
facepalm

These showings are horrible. Not even close to supporting your point. You just posted a pic of him ESCAPING the grip of Triton in which Triton called him an eel, and that's supposed to be Aquaman going to to toe with him? And again with the magical Trident attack, not to mention the water hand? My dude, if this was a chess match, you should be asking for a draw.

Beating up a God who beat Arthur and Diana as a child is a bad showing?

Staying on even footing with Wonder Woman (GOW) is a bad showing?

The Water Hand doesn't amp his physicals he can change its density but he wasn't shown to do that and he'd still require the force behind the punch.
The trident didn't do anything to Olympian. He knocked the guy out with his actual fist a guy who tooK MM down


If your going to discredit do it atleast with some logic

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I wanted to make an ending statement, that though I think BB can fight characters like Thor and Hulk hand to hand I don't think he'd win a match if he stuck to pure physicals and they did as well. I generally don't agree with the Marvel Handbook but I do think BB is in the same weight class as characters like Namor and The Thing.

I think Aquaman just for some reason is being disregarded, even Pre-Flashpoint he's been stated a couple times and shown to have duked it out with characters who are apparently in the same class as Superman and Aquaman has done pretty well.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244877/5043945-3995081-4164908542-pqaaa.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139093/2998106-aquamanvsslig3.jpg

Panic in the Sky
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244877/5043949-4693674-screenshot_2015-07-13-16-34-31-1.jpg

He's done pretty well against characters who have had Superman's power, whether it be Amazo or others.
http://imgur.com/a/Fz5SZ

http://imgur.com/EGC65Pz?r
Until he gets his powers absorbed
http://i.imgur.com/Q4qKF8K.jpg

Hell one of his main rogues Ocean Master has taken a punch from Superman remained conscious, Strong enough to strain Superman in a choke hold, as well as took a punch from Wonder Woman and remained conscious. Prelude to Obsidian Age. Ocean Master was holding back both Superman and Wonder Woman with Water and Aquaman fights this guy consistently.

Another rogue Slig is stated by the writer to be in the same weight class as Superman and Aquaman has beaten Slig up physically in his own title.

He's shortly traded blows with Superboy and Lobo in his own title, has overpowered an All-Knowing which one of these things beat up Powergirl, as well as the fact King Shark another Aquaman villain consistently gives Superboy trouble in regards to physicals. I don't get comparisons of Batman hurting a herald compared to when Aquaman does it... given that I see Aquaman in the Herald class based on several showings in his own book and outside it.


Aquaman took hits from Titus who was a legit Herald buster none of the League could really fight him one on one and last to long.
He's generally traded blows with Martian Manhunter who Pre-Flashpoint didn't have to amp himself to fight other heralds.

I honestly don't get the low regard to Aquaman though.

not to be a d!ck but once again you're doing your boy more harm than good. why would you show that amazo scan again?? it LITERALLY says AMAZO CAN BE TOPPLED BY THE SLIGHTEST OF BLOWS. the feat is utterly meaningless. AM hit him once and then was trussled up over his shoulder like a net of fish! that....is in no way a good showing. seriously.

you show him hitting some random z-lister, again, NOT a feat in anyway.

painic in the sky?? he gets why he's left behind? and he's telling that to NIGHTWING?? he was left with nightwing and that's some feat? random narraction saying some guys could fight superman is considered a feat for AM? that's not saying much.

he punched some guy that superman was fighting as his...powers were konking out??

as an AM fan, i'd really love it if you stopped trying to showcase him....you are DESPERATELY reaching with the majority of the scans you've posted. it's not doing AM any credit.

the ultraman scan--AM threw a car at him. you cannot seriously think that's a feat at all. spiderman could do that. i'm just utterly baffled here by the things you are deeming 'feats'. his scrum with ww was fine i guess but it was very brief and all he really did was toss her....and so he punched olympian. when did landing a punch on somebody become a feat exactly???

and after all that, you say exactly what i've said all along--bolt is around namor level in strength. namor, who has battled every strongman in marvel, h2h, and done very well throughout his career.

baffled doesn't begin to describe how i feel....

anyway, some bolt stuff. of course it's in his nature to use his other powers in fights so that's not something i can eliminate, but clearly we see that he can and has fared very well against many of marvels strongmen when fights have gone h2h:

here he easily handles namor:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/20066/1196995-1196979_blackbolt_vs_namor_super.jpg

namor is not seen again until much later btw, as reed pointed out, long enough for that to count as a forum win...

here bolt returns a blow to ben after he'd already been hit:

http://i.imgur.com/7HLgnt6.jpg

oddly, thing has done pretty well with bolt, but again, thing has fought pretty well every strongman in marvel and done well himself.

here is another fight with namor--bb fights this battle while weakening. it's a draw but clearly illustrates what i've said all along about the relative strength of bb:

http://imgur.com/a/fMjDR

http://imgur.com/a/aE8ew

http://imgur.com/a/uzwdq

http://imgur.com/a/myiLp

http://imgur.com/a/g3s5t

you also dismissed the scan i showed of bolt hitting hulk because he was armed with karnak's knowledge. but you completely failed to mention how it says he was a close second to hulk in strength.... now, i know enough about both and other characters to know that isn't true, but if this were shown with AM, and that narration accompanied something HE'd done, you would have been all over it.....just sayin'.

here again is some silly narration to go with some of what you posted:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3465977

spidey knows pretty well everyone so that's pretty damn high praise.

here he matches up with galdiator:

https://new.vk.com/topic-94595957_33642532?z=photo-94595957_383564750%2Fpost-94595957_2850

https://new.vk.com/topic-94595957_33642532?z=photo-94595957_383564749%2Fpost-94595957_2850

http://i.imgur.com/d9pueS4.jpg

he had the advantage staying just h2h until glads asked for help. he's taken glads out before, easily, with his voice....

here he beats ronan in a duel--not really h2h but cool and shows skill:

https://new.vk.com/topic-94595957_33642532?z=photo-94595957_383564948%2Fpost-94595957_2854

an early bout against ben. he's fought evenly with ben a few times:

https://new.vk.com/topic-94595957_33642532?z=photo-94595957_383565094%2Fpost-94595957_2856

and his skirmish with thor:

http://s38.photobucket.com/user/RageOfTheGod/media/Thor/ThorvsBlackBolt4.jpg.html

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsBlackBolt3.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/132322/2547506-thorvsblackbolt03.jpg

who knows how the fight would have ended had thor not spotted a weakness.

and here he skirmishes with sphinx, generally considered a trans tier guy:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2830212

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2830211

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2830210

never did i feel such power... impressive from someone as powerful as sphinx. lots of energy in there, but his punch was....at least equal to the punches you showed. and no, i'm not claiming "PUNCHING" someone is a feat, just kinda doing what the romans do and following up your 'feats' with similar ones.

after examining all the evidence i'm not sure how anyone can say this would be anything but a very close fight. i'd also give the durability edge to bolt overall--his fight with thanos, vulcan, surviving the t-bomb explosion.... it's extremely rare when bolt is ko'd or even defeated in comics. it's not disrespectful to AM to say this is close. bolt has hung with...pretty well everyone. based on feats and history i take bolt here. but it would be an extremely close fight. that's pretty much it for me and this thread. been interesting.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
With enough force to push Ultraman back?

It's funny cause you've yet to post feats of strength for Black Bolt and have stuck with who he's hit and taken hits from. According to your logic those are unimpressive cause Captain America has taken hits from Heralds.. Yet Cap doesn't have feats like you know lifting stuff that weighs several thousand Tons or exceeds it and Aquaman does. Still waiting to see those for BB

Sigh.

Dude, what are you not getting? Battling evenly means two combatants TAKING BLOWS AND GIVING THEM for at least a few panels. I'm pretty close to giving up on you getting it. All I can say is look at the fights with Bolt and Kallark again, also with Bolt and Thor which I didn't post. The fights went BACK AND FORTH. You've posted scattered list of one takes, flukes, fights with very specific context, the use of enchanted weapons and examples of PIS. I don't have a problem with you and I don't feel the need to get personal because quite frankly, the goods are on my side. Let's just agree to disagree.

I think your being a bit bias, you see the guy take down Martian Manhunter and then the feat is meaningless that Aquaman one shots him?

Amazo got locked in TP when Martian Manhunter arrived on the scene him being toppled is more an illustration that he couldn't react any more or do anything. It doesn't change the fact that Aquaman harmed a guy that had the League's power. I don't get how that's bad or how you'd ignore all the other stuff just for that one phrase in dialogue,

Or how were ignoring the Triton instance, or Wonder Woman instance.

He got left behind because he was recovering from when Brainiac ambushed him. If you want more context read Panic in the Sky. It's a statement I take those at face value but the writer was trying to suggest that Aquaman by his own admission was fighting guys strong enough to go head to head with Superman, and since you people seem to like statements alot I said why not post that.

Slig is another character suggested to be Superman class and Aquaman handled him fine.

Also how am I reaching? All of the scans I've posted I've told context when context wanted to be known or needed to be? You call you self an AM fan but you've been bias against him this whole thread.

If you read the story he kod Olympian..

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
With enough force to push Ultraman back?

HELL YES! Are you effing serious? Do you read comics regularly?

Also by feats BB in strength is Namor/Thing level which I've been saying. Sure he's had scuffles with Thor but so have Namor and Thing.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
HELL YES! Are you effing serious? Do you read comics regularly?

Scans of Spiderman sending a herald back with a vehicle?

Also most of the Sphinx fight wasn't h2h BB resorted to AOE

Against Thor he resorted to Energy Manipulation to amp himself and still got knocked out and these are considered valid despite not being pure h2h? Whereas just because Aquaman has the WH which doesn't amp his physicals and he doesn't even use in the fight it's considered a bad showing? Powerful also doesn't necessarily mean strength in comics.

I hope you do see the problem with that.

you...didn't read my post did you? i SAID it's hard to find pure h2h fights with bb because he has other powers but the ones i showed were at least as impressive as the 'feats' you showed. i also said the ww feat is ok--he didn't really do a damn thing in it except flip her, but....ok she didn't ko him in the first 6 panels so....yay?

olympian showing was good. he HAS some good showings. like i've said 10 times in this thread.

harming amazo? he PUNCHED him once. so what? you are really confused in regards to what constitutes a feat and what doesn't aren't you. i focus on the one piece of dialogue because it's the important piece! triton is a z-lister with no feats to HIS name, so why should anyone be overly impressed by the feat? it was a cool fight, but again, so what?

as far as being biased--lol i just don't feel a need to over-wank someone just because i feel the need to win a pi$$ing contest. i mean you've had what, 4 different people in this thread say your 'feats' aren't feats. that alone should tell you all you need to know about those 'feats'. he DOES have some good ones, and a couple of very good strength feats--better than bolt's strength feats, as i said. but that doesn't matter. in combat feats bolt is at least as good and i'd say better.

if you can't see any of that then no one here can really help you. but stop making it sound like i'm the biased one when it's been you this entire thread who hasn't credited any of bolt's feats. good day sir!

You've yet to suggest how I'm over wanking Aquaman...

I find the Amazo feat impressive because Amazo's "You hurt me" line which is what I suggested he was shown capable of harming Amazo before Amazo got TP'd. I find it impressive because the writer was showing Aquaman posing a threat to Amazo and the reason he goes down is because of Heat Vision. I'm not overwanking him by suggesting what the scan did.

I'm glad you think the Olympian showing is great though. Both on the Olympian and Despero instance though we see them physically take down Martian Manhunter before Aquaman intervenes. I'm not overwanking Aquaman by pointing that out I'm simply suggesting why I find it impressive.

I honestly believe BB and AM are on the same physical tier. I just think in actual physical showings AM has him beat. If you disagree with that, it's completely fine.

In regards to BB amping himself or using his other powers it was more to BAV suggesting Aquaman is more dependent on his Trident or WH or ETC. Which was just ironic to me.

Originally posted by leonidas
not to be a d!ck but (...)

Master Zom called you "leodickus" for a reason biscuits

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
You've yet to suggest how I'm over wanking Aquaman...

I find the Amazo feat impressive because Amazo's "You hurt me" line which is what I suggested he was shown capable of harming Amazo before Amazo got TP'd. I find it impressive because the writer was showing Aquaman posing a threat to Amazo and the reason he goes down is because of Heat Vision. I'm not overwanking him by suggesting what the scan did.

I'm glad you think the Olympian showing is great though. Both on the Olympian and Despero instance though we see them physically take down Martian Manhunter before Aquaman intervenes. I'm not overwanking Aquaman by pointing that out I'm simply suggesting why I find it impressive.

I honestly believe BB and AM are on the same physical tier. I just think in actual physical showings AM has him beat. If you disagree with that, it's completely fine.

In regards to BB amping himself or using his other powers it was more to BAV suggesting Aquaman is more dependent on his Trident or WH or ETC. Which was just ironic to me.

BB amping his strength was not discluded as a stip nor is it an outside amp. I don't know why you are bringing it up or comparing it to a potential outside amp. That's like saying the Hulks strength can't increase, it's pointless because it's a core ability. As far as the Trident, I wasn't even the first poster to bring it up. YOU overstated his ability to effect herald busters like Darkseid and it was pointed out that all he did was injured his eye via his magical Trident. Hand to hand does not involve the use of a magical weaponry, therefore those sort of showings are irrelevant.

You need to accept that your posts have hurt your case more than helped your case.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
BB amping his strength was not discluded as a stip nor is it an outside amp. I don't know why you are bringing it up or comparing it to a potential outside amp. That's like saying the Hulks strength can't increase, it's pointless because it's a core ability. As far as the Trident, I wasn't even the first poster to bring it up. YOU overstated his ability to effect herald busters like Darkseid and it was pointed out that all he did was injured his eye via his magical Trident. Hand to hand does not involve the use of a magical weaponry, therefore those sort of showings are irrelevant.

You need to accept that your posts have hurt your case more than helped your case.

So when you assumed WH was a physical amp it wasn't able to be used despite it being physically attached to the character?

I never mentioned Darkseid in this thread.. or any showing of him using the trident in a fight. Save Olympian which he won the fight by hand, so I didn't even bring it up because of the trident.

Regardless Hulks ability to get stronger is an innate ability, Black Bolt calls on outside energy to amp himself and uses his tuning fork to do so.

We can always assume he was at his base levels when he bitched Glads

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
So when you assumed WH was a physical amp it wasn't able to be used despite it being physically attached to the character?

I never mentioned Darkseid in this thread.. or any showing of him using the trident in a fight. Save Olympian which he won the fight by hand, so I didn't even bring it up because of the trident.

No you didn't, but you did say this:



Which prompted Cogito to say this:



Then you started down this ridiculous path of trying to prove AM is effective against herald busters without his trident, sometimes including pics of him fighting with the trident.

I honestly don't know what you are trying to accomplish. You can post all the scans you want, but you aren't going to change minds at this point. You act like people aren't familiar with Aquaman and you are here to enlighten us.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
We can always assume he was at his base levels when he bitched Glads

Glads is always one of those questionable characters because of the Confidence lvl thing.

Don't get it with Marvel and all these characters with the ability to get stronger whenever.

Hulk, Rage.

Gladiator. Confidence.

Sentry. Mentality.

Etc

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Regardless Hulks ability to get stronger is an innate ability, Black Bolt calls on outside energy to amp himself and uses his tuning fork to do so.

No he doesn't, not any more than Hulk calls on more gamma energy from an unknown source. Don't be a wordsmith.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
No you didn't, but you did say this:



Which prompted Cogito to say this:



Then you started down this ridiculous path of trying to prove AM is effective against herald busters without his trident, sometimes including pics of him fighting with the trident.

I honestly don't know what you are trying to accomplish. You can post all the scans you want, but you aren't going to change minds at this point. You act like people aren't familiar with Aquaman and you are here to enlighten us.

Wasn't that when you suggested Aquaman couldn't hurt heralds? So I posted a scan of Amazo saying "You hurt me"

I feel like I'm at a constant defense and being accused of lying or other stuff I haven't even done in this thread.

I've yet to Overwank AC, or to place him in a bracket that comics haven't already. It's just been a game so far of what people are willing to accept.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
No he doesn't, not any more than Hulk calls on more gamma energy from an unknown source. Don't be a wordsmith.

I think of that as Hulk having a connection to a source similar to Flash and the Speed force in innate energy.

BB calls on energy through his attenna so we know this isn't natural. Thor even comments he's increasing his natural strength and speed so it's not really that their base it's that that's his actual strength and speed getting boosted.

A better illustration would be Superman sun amping. Which isn't really natural and the OP in threads usually specify if he's allowed to.

I should clarify my statements earlier because I think they're being interpreted incorrectly.

Arthur can and has fought hand to hand with Herald and Trans level beings before, but in straight h2h he can really only hang for a couple of panels. He cannot engage the likes of Gladiator, WW, Hulk, etc with any hope of winning or even doing serious harm. He's a class 100 brick, but closer to Thing level strength than Hulk strength. Probably comparable durability to Thing too mmm

Originally posted by Cogito
I should clarify my statements earlier because I think they're being interpreted incorrectly.

Arthur can and has fought hand to hand with Herald and Trans level beings before, but in straight h2h he can really only hang for a couple of panels. He cannot engage the likes of Gladiator, WW, Hulk, etc with any hope of winning or even doing serious harm. He's a class 100 brick, but closer to Thing level strength than Hulk strength. Probably comparable durability to Thing too mmm

Thing might have better durability Piercing wise, I doubt all around durability is comparable to Arthur who has some pretty impressive feats if you like to see them. Probably has actual better strength feats then The Thing as well

Your statement is better now that it's been revised, I honestly see BB the same way. I don't see him beating Hulk, Gladiator, or WW in pure hand to hand unless there's context to it.

I'd put Blackagar at Thing level as well. Which the Handbook does as well.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Wasn't that when you suggested Aquaman couldn't hurt heralds? So I posted a scan of Amazo saying "You hurt me"

I feel like I'm at a constant defense and being accused of lying or other stuff I haven't even done in this thread.

I've yet to Overwank AC, or to place him in a bracket that comics haven't already. It's just been a game so far of what people are willing to accept.

I never said he couldn't "hurt" heralds, but you are playing word games because you said I implied such. I implied and stated also with many others he can't hang with true heralds in hand to hand whereas Black Bolt can.....in part because he is a true herald.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Thing might have better durability Piercing wise, I doubt all around durability is comparable to Arthur who has some pretty impressive feats if you like to see them. Probably has actual better strength feats then The Thing as well

Your statement is better now that it's been revised, I honestly see BB the same way. I don't see him beating Hulk, Gladiator, or WW in pure hand to hand unless there's context to it.

I'd put Blackagar at Thing level as well. Which the Handbook does as well.

He's above Thing level, dude. Thing is tough and competent as a fighter, but would not do as well against heralds. BB is better in ever category. I don't believe I have seen many speed and agility showings or narratives for Thing like I have BB.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Thing might have better durability Piercing wise, I doubt all around durability is comparable to Arthur who has some pretty impressive feats if you like to see them. Probably has actual better strength feats then The Thing as well

Your statement is better now that it's been revised, I honestly see BB the same way. I don't see him beating Hulk, Gladiator, or WW in pure hand to hand unless there's context to it.

I'd put Blackagar at Thing level as well. Which the Handbook does as well.

Arthur's piercing durability seems to have improved in DCnU, and he has solid blunt force durability so I think Thing level is about right.

I put BB above Thing in strength. And some of the hits he's taken (such as from Thanos) would clean Arthur's clock, imo.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Master Zom called you "leodickus" for a reason biscuits

oh i know it wasn't for nothing.

So we all agree? Good.