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So Im in the nerd section of Barnes and Nobles right now sipping my tea and i overhear two guys debating comics. Both seem pretty versed in the lore so i was intrigued.

Any way after introducing myself and grabbing a table we had a pretty heated debate on Cosmic might vs Magical power. They both agreed that they were analogous to a degree but disagreed on which was ultimately more powerful. Names like Lucifer Morningstar/HOM Wanda/LT/ Galactus etc were thrown out. We spent the better part of an hour discussing it and i wanted you guys opinion.

Which is more powerful?
Which is more versatile?

so basically they dp'd you in the library?


but to answer your question, at their highest levels they are basically the same just different means to an end, hell you'd be hard pressed to find something one can do that the other cant. but at the lower level id say cosmic has the edge due to the whole "magic always comes with a price" crap thats prevalent through out fiction, also they May need to perform certain actions/fulfill conditions to use magic, ranging from specific words/songs, certain hand/body moves or materials that need to be consumed or even extensive rituals. but magic at its highest level is pretty much unbound
. matter of fact i have a good idea, do a magic vs cosmic feat challenge, kind of like that silver surfer vs green lantern thread a while back. for what one energy can do you have to post a equal or greater feat. but to go in a lil deeper, id personally side with cosmic due to the fact that that it seems much quicker and doesnt require as much effort and sacrifice as magic does. at there lower levels cosmic seems more like a think as you go kinda thing and has less restrictions.

Magic will always trump cosmic power.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Magic will always trump cosmic power.



does magic have omniversal feats?

Originally posted by ghostman
so basically they dp'd you in the library?


but to answer your question, at their highest levels they are basically the same just different means to an end, hell you'd be hard pressed to find something one can do that the other cant. but at the lower level id say cosmic has the edge due to the whole "magic always comes with a price" crap thats prevalent through out fiction, also they May need to perform certain actions/fulfill conditions to use magic, ranging from specific words/songs, certain hand/body moves or materials that need to be consumed or even extensive rituals. but magic at its highest level is pretty much unbound
. matter of fact i have a good idea, do a magic vs cosmic feat challenge, kind of like that silver surfer vs green lantern thread a while back. for what one energy can do you have to post a equal or greater feat. but to go in a lil deeper, id personally side with cosmic due to the fact that that it seems much quicker and doesnt require as much effort and sacrifice as magic does. at there lower levels cosmic seems more like a think as you go kinda thing and has less restrictions.

My thing with magic though is when there seems to be no residual effect. Cosmic powers seem to have a stricter sense of laws. Magic seems to not be bound.


Can cosmic powers alter reality?

Originally posted by ghostman
does magic have omniversal feats?
Yes. At similar power level, a mage is always going to trump a cosmic being. Just look at Dr. Strange or Dr. Fate.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
My thing with magic though is when there seems to be no residual effect. Cosmic powers seem to have a stricter sense of laws. Magic seems to not be bound.


Can cosmic powers alter reality?
The main difference is that cosmic power is restricted by the laws of physics.

Magic is...well magic.

Miring brah?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
My thing with magic though is when there seems to be no residual effect. Cosmic powers seem to have a stricter sense of laws. Magic seems to not be bound.


Can cosmic powers alter reality?


what...... youve got it completely backwards, magic is far far FAR more restricted. did you not read the whole "magic always comes with a price" thing? i KNOW you heard that saying before... like say a magician wanted to remove the souls of every human on earth, under normal circumstances, he would need to do a ritual, prepare and do some sort of incantation or chant, as most magic doesnt work on the whole think as you go/handwave method. while cosmic powers most of the time they would just wave their hand or think about it and it happens.

and of course cosmic powers can warp reality, have you ever heard of a COSMIC CUBE ???? serious girl?

There is no doubt that the current Marvel Multi-verse is based on science. That is evident with the Secret Wars events. Science is king, at least with Marvel.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. At similar power level, a mage is always going to trump a cosmic being. Just look at Dr. Strange or Dr. Fate.

i disagree, dr fate and strange are not your runt of the mill magicians. what cosmic characters are on fate and stranges level? thanos?

also scans for omniversal magic?'

and add to the fact that most of stranges best feats require prep. further proving my point in my first post, its more restricted

Originally posted by abhilegend
The main difference is that cosmic power is restricted by the laws of physics.

Magic is...well magic.

cosmic power is not restricted by the laws of physics. cosmic cube? IG? and the numerous other cosmic characters like beyonder and molecule man that warp reality and defy the laws of physics

Originally posted by ghostman
what...... youve got it completely backwards, magic is far far FAR more restricted. did you not read the whole "magic always comes with a price" thing? i KNOW you heard that saying before... like say a magician wanted to remove the souls of every human on earth, under normal circumstances, he would need to do a ritual, prepare and do some sort of incantation or chant, as most magic doesnt work on the whole think as you go/handwave method. while cosmic powers most of the time they would just wave their hand or think about it and it happens.

and of course cosmic powers can warp reality, have you ever heard of a COSMIC CUBE ???? serious girl?
Not all writers take with "Magic comes with a price." A mage can remove all the souls from Earth. The same will take at least a skyfather in cosmic tier.

Yes, the artifacts in MU are always powerful. Even then Dr. Strange (Just Strange) took on Adam Warlock with IG and held his own. In fairness Warlock was using one gem only but you will not find a cosmic being of lesser power taking on a more powerful magical being.

Originally posted by ghostman
i disagree, dr fate and strange are not your runt of the mill magicians. what cosmic characters are on fate and stranges level? thanos?

also scans for omniversal magic?'

and add to the fact that most of stranges best feats require prep. further proving my point in my first post, its more restricted
Of course they are not. But they are not that powerful in the sorcerer hierarchy.

Lord of Chaos and Order destroyed and recreated entire creation. Words like Omniversal or multiversal are meaningless.Originally posted by ghostman
cosmic power is not restricted by the laws of physics. cosmic cube? IG? and the numerous other cosmic characters like beyonder and molecule man that warp reality and defy the laws of physics
You are going to the very top of the hierarchy. Lesser cosmic characters? Yes, they do.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not all writers take with "Magic comes with a price." A mage can remove all the souls from Earth. The same will take at least a skyfather in cosmic tier.

Yes, the artifacts in MU are always powerful. Even then Dr. Strange (Just Strange) took on Adam Warlock with IG and held his own. In fairness Warlock was using one gem only but you will not find a cosmic being of lesser power taking on a more powerful magical being.


Of course they are not. But they are not that powerful in the sorcerer hierarchy.

Lord of Chaos and Order destroyed and recreated entire creation. Words like Omniversal or multiversal are meaningless.
You are going to the very top of the hierarchy. Lesser cosmic characters? Yes, they do.

yes but the majority DO. you cant ignore most writers not writing magical characters as unbound and limitless , and use the minority of them that dont have those limits as the standard and add to the fact that most need chants and incantations prep and a plethora of other things. and kilowog has performed planetary soul manipulation before. hes not skyfather, so has superman blue.

didnt surfer take on mephisto in his own realm? didnt superman punch through emperor joker ? those are examples of lesser cosmic characters taking on more powerful magic beings.

also, destroying entire creation can mean a universe, im going to need the context of that one. "entire creation" can mean a single universe. those terms are not meaningless. and youre doing the same exact thing for the magic side, using minority examples as the majority. most magic characters arent doing planetary soul manip without some prep or chanting.

Originally posted by ghostman
what...... youve got it completely backwards, magic is far far FAR more restricted. did you not read the whole "magic always comes with a price" thing? i KNOW you heard that saying before... like say a magician wanted to remove the souls of every human on earth, under normal circumstances, he would need to do a ritual, prepare and do some sort of incantation or chant, as most magic doesnt work on the whole think as you go/handwave method. while cosmic powers most of the time they would just wave their hand or think about it and it happens.

and of course cosmic powers can warp reality, have you ever heard of a COSMIC CUBE ???? serious girl?

That only applies up to a certain level. Godly magic for example doesn't require such actions

Originally posted by ghostman
does magic have omniversal feats? HoM Wanda

If the LT decides to wipe out a universe, is he using magic or cosmic power or something else entirely? You get to a certain point and nobody even bothers with distinguishing the type of power used (if there even is a difference at that level)

Originally posted by Sin I AM
That only applies up to a certain level. Godly magic for example doesn't require such actions

yes and thats the minority. most magic isnt that way. at those levels im talking about is where cosmic has the edge. it doesnt need all that stuff. you need godly top tier magic to abandon it. even then most characters still need some sort of proxy.

Originally posted by Cogito
HoM Wanda

If the LT decides to wipe out a universe, is he using magic or cosmic power or something else entirely? You get to a certain point and nobody even bothers with distinguishing the type of power used (if there even is a difference at that level)


wasnt she retconned into channeling the life force of some other being? idk man that shits a mess.

Originally posted by ghostman
yes and thats the minority. most magic isnt that way. at those levels im talking about is where cosmic has the edge. it doesnt need all that stuff. you need godly top tier magic to abandon it. even then most characters still need some sort of proxy.
Like who for example?

Let's see Strange, Doom (at times ) Zatanna, Fate...who doesn't? Never seen Loki do it or any of the hell lords..or magik..I can't remember if Wiccan did it or not he's a forgettable character

I'm not too clear on what the difference is supposed to be. Cosmic as far as I am concerned is a scale on which a certain power can operate on.

Even the the Living Tribunal used spells.

http://i.imgur.com/tPwdOP1m.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/2WrtCsjm.jpg

Dr Strange held his own against one gem Warlock but when Thanos faces off against Silver Surfer he had to call in reinforcement Hulk, Drax, Thor etc etc to seperate them interesting he couldn't stop them.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Even then Dr. Strange (Just Strange) took on Adam Warlock with IG and held his own.

In fairness Warlock was using one gem only
That's not quite accurate.

Adam was never trying to hurt Strange, and it wasn't even a battle.
Adam was trying to convince Strange about his vision for the universe.

Till the end, when Adam used the Power Gem, which was going to obliterate Strange quickly until Adam stopped.
* note: Strange anticipated this beforehand and came prepped with ALL his Talisman's and tricks rolled into one.
And still, the PG alone was going to stomp him fairly easily.

Strange never "held his own" against anything IG related.
Originally posted by golem370

Dr Strange held his own against one gem Warlock

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's not quite accurate.

Adam was never trying to hurt Strange, and it wasn't even a battle.
Adam was trying to convince Strange about his vision for the universe.

Till the end, when Adam used the Power Gem, which was going to obliterate Strange quickly until Adam stopped.
* note: Strange anticipated this beforehand and came prepped with ALL his Talisman's and tricks rolled into one.
And still, the PG alone was going to stomp him fairly easily.

Strange never "held his own" against anything IG related.


Maybe you should read the comic and not your special drafted and painted comic.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Maybe you should read the comic and not your special drafted and painted comic.

Anytime you wanna debate that particular book Battlezone style, let me know.

A year ban for the loser. Let me know so we can set it up with the Mods.

Until then, troll on!

Originally posted by Mr Master
Anytime you wanna debate that particular book Battlezone style, let me know.

A year ban for the loser. Let me know so we can set it up with the Mods.

Until then, troll on!

in your opinion which is greater? been waiting for you to post in this.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Anytime you wanna debate that particular book Battlezone style, let me know.

A year ban for the loser. Let me know so we can set it up with the Mods.

Until then, troll on!


I don't need to do a BZ to humiliate you again. But tell me where Adam didn't use all his gems one by one except soul gem.

http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/28794751_RCO012.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/28794752_RCO013.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/28794753_RCO014.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/28794754_RCO015.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/28794755_RCO016.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/28794756_RCO017.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/28794757_RCO018.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/28794758_RCO019.jpg

He used the power gem at last and would've killed Strange but only after the other gems failed.

facepalm

..................................................................................................................


Huh? (so I guess Pip and Gamora also held their own against the Gems)

All I see is Strange getting owned by the Power Gem alone.

..................................................................................................................


Warlock Never tried to hurt Strange,

he was trying to convince him to concede to his PLAN of eradicating ALL Evil from the Universe.

..................................................................................................................


So he used the Gems individually on Strange, Pip and Gamora.

..................................................................................................................


Time Gem:

First: Warlock tries to make him see his PLAN in the Future:

"Perhaps a taste of the Time Gem will convince you ....

"but if Time will Not make you reconsider your opposition to my scheme"

What happened?

Well, Adam presented Strange a scene of the "Future" ... and Strange used the Book of Vishanti to return to the "Present" scene.

... uhh, wow? ... lol

..................................................................................................................


Space Gem:

Second: Warlock sends Doc, Pip & Gamora into deep Space (into darkness), to scare them:

"Then if Time and Space hold No terrors for you"

Heck, not even Gamora or naked Pip show any sign of pain or negative physical affects.

Doc simply uses the Winds of Watoomb to return to Adam's location.

... uhh, big wow? ... lol

..................................................................................................................


Reality Gem:

Third: Warlock warps the Reality around them,
attempting to mess with their senses, so that Doc has no "reason" to reproach Adam's plan:

"How do you Reason out a defense, when Reason itself shift its stance?"

It's obviously an uncomfortable predicament for them,
but Gamora is speaking coherently so not exactly a crisis.

We see Adam was only tricking their "senses" to see what isn't there.

Doc uses the Expanded Orb of Aggy to re-adjust their senses.

... uhh, oh my, but how did Gamora and Pip withstand such an incredible assault? dur

..................................................................................................................


Mind Gem:

Fourth: Warlock uses the Mind Gem:

What happened?

Adam gives Doc a mental vision of how his life would be if he had never become a sorcerer:

uhh, lobotomy would've been more effective ey? Oh wait, Adam isn't trying to really hurt Doc at this point.

Anyway, Doc uses the Eye of Aggy to wash away those images.

Finally, Adam decides to actually strike Doc with intentions of hurting him ... with the Power Gem:

"If my Mind Gem cannot seduce you from your purpose, THEN ... I will strike at you"

..................................................................................................................


The ONLY time Warlock actually tried to hurt Strange,
was when he used the Power Gem .... the Power Gem, alone!

..................................................................................................................


Power Gem:

Strange with PREP and All his Talismans combined gets owned easily:

"But Knowing in advance that Warlock Possessed it" (Power Gem)

"I had arranged for ALL My Talismans to Act together to counteract it"

"Which even I KNOW, almost at once, CANNOT LONG ENDURE"

(and this is ONLY the Power Gem)

................................................................................................................


This is Strange talking:

"He sees himself Victorious over me, DESTROYING Me, as must certainly happen ANY moment Now"

..................................................................................................................


If you wish to claim Strange (prepped+all his Talismans combined)
"held his own" against the Power Gem for two panels, I can agree to that.

Anything more than that is trollish fallacies.

srsly

This is idiotic. Did or did not Warlock used all the gems except soul gem on Strange?

No need to write an essay about it or copy/pasting the dialogue.

Simple yes or no would be suffice.

pretty sure his point is
he didn't use any of them with the intention of killing him
until the power gem

Originally posted by Genii96

pretty sure his point is

he didn't use any of them with the intention of killing him

until the power gem
... or even hurting him, or them. (Gamora-Pip)

... Any momo can see that.

You still did not answer my question.

Don't run again.